170 agents needs nerf :)

[-Klod-]

that not really insane AR considering, traders,soldiers,enforcers all have higher.

It is insane, for a doc.

and whats there hp in that setup, im guessing tehre still in CSS so it cant be over 12-13k so its alpha food for another agent,fixer,soldier,advy,enforcer,MA,

Are you talking about tl7 alpha food now?

im also guessing they wont have the nanoskills to keep casting through drains of a NT, MP or trader.

They don't have to, those will be dead in next 2 seconds anyways, so... Keep guessing.

[Saetos]

I don't mind getting killed by an agent - they're assassins, of course. But it's what they can do while waiting *for* that alpha to build itself up is what irks us (CH/UBT, trader drains, Challenger, etc.)

[-Klod-]

Of course agent always got their perk up and they instant refresh when you use them. It isnt like CS got 85s recharge. People crying because they get ganked :X . AO is becoming whine online

ccl about ganking itself, having 0 defense against it on some professions is what worries me. I don't really care how they gonna handle it, be it by nerfing them agents (looks like they have chosen this way - being easier to do it 'n' stuff), or by boosting those certain profs, it's all the same to me.

only if they choose to stand there, like an idiot

So, their choice is to somehow unsneak agent first, then do their magic. Hmmm. Oukay. Didn't know that.

[viktory22]

TBH after watching that video he doesnt need AS. And yes a tl5 mp will not be a top twinked agent. there always will be a better profession. Another comment is, why roll a toon and complain that someone beat you, when once again after watching that you rushed an agent w/o using any of your toolset.

Im guessing if he didn't use AS you would be asking for the stun to be removed?

-question
Why roll a tl5 mp and not expect to hit reclaim? Its like rolling a tl7 doc and thinking you will never get called at tl7.
Another question, Why roll an mp when you know tl5 is full of agents, if u want to beat agents or nerf them, roll a keep and spam your LE nano


This is the problem in AO, instead of trying to fix your toon to beat another everyone runs to the forums and trolls it until something is done by another person. Why can't you think of ways to counter that toon because some have.

[Moonbolt]

the problem wasnt that he was killed i think.... the problem was that it took 2 seconds and he was stunned constantly during those 2 seconds.

[viktory22]

So your saying remove stuns?

Take a note from the tl7 doc book and use an FM.

And iirc arn't low hp twinks taking risks to heavily twinked AR toons or am i just dreaming?

O and if he/she didnt wanna get stunned he/she should put the MOTR in their hotbar



btw would like to see the 2.1k dodge setup :P

[Genie]

This is the problem in AO, instead of trying to fix your toon to beat another everyone runs to the forums and trolls it until something is done by another person. Why can't you think of ways to counter that toon because some have.

When game developers mess up, there usually is no counter against it. Thats when its necesarry to speak up, since they dont play the game themselves, to make them aware of this fact.

[Moonbolt]

So your saying remove stuns?

Take a note from the tl7 doc book and use an FM.

And iirc arn't low hp twinks taking risks to heavily twinked AR toons or am i just dreaming?

O and if he/she didnt wanna get stunned he/she should put the MOTR in their hotbar



btw would like to see the 2.1k dodge setup :P

wow u seriusly do some flawed arguing.....

agents can take out non low HP twonks in 2 seconds aswell fi they can perk them...
MoTR has a 30 min CD.
and im sorry but a FM stim takes 1 sec to execute..... + 1 sec to react... he was dead in less then 2 seconds.. u do the math.

[viktory22]

Let me know how they messed up because 1 pro can beat another. The fact that the he/she made a thread about this w/o trying to fix his/her toon is proof right there that he/she doesnt care. All they want is someone else to make them better.

Agents at tl5 have tons of weaknesses. The problem is the good ones know how to conceal them better. Same thing you can say about tl5 docs/mps/enfs/nts/traders

Tl5 is a matter of who is better at hiding flaws in their setups. The problem is when the flaw is what you focused on which in this case was evades. But once again I ask you why roll a twink that is known to fail to another profession when you knew that b4 making it.

If you think tl5 is agent infested roll a keeper/enf/trader.

And another thing after watching the video a bit is kinda funny. But an MP at tl5 is a profession which has to hit first in order to be good. What do you expect when you get hit first. Dont see traders making posts because an agent beat them all they think is next time my finger better be faster.

There are known professions who are weaker. All some of these balancing posts are asking is for everyone to run around with the same perks/setups/etc..

If you think that one profession should beat them all then i suggest you go play Xbox or PS3 where the game isnt complex.

[Genie]

Let me know how they messed up

Do you play this game? Telling you how they messed up is like stating the obvious.

[-Klod-]

TBH after watching that video he doesnt need AS. And yes a tl5 mp will not be a top twinked agent. there always will be a better profession. Another comment is, why roll a toon and complain that someone beat you, when once again after watching that you rushed an agent w/o using any of your toolset.

Yeah, why roll anything but level 174 agent.

This is the problem in AO, instead of trying to fix your toon...

People have tried, then those level 170 agents just leveled 4 more levels.

So your saying remove stuns?

No.

Take a note from the tl7 doc book and use an FM.

Waste of FM stim, since you will be dead before it executes (human eye/hand coordination + sync/lag issues).

And iirc arn't low hp twinks taking risks to heavily twinked AR toons or am i just dreaming?

Not like every profession can chose to go HP route and stay viable for anything but surviving this specific 2 sec alpha.

O and if he/she didnt wanna get stunned he/she should put the MOTR in their hotbar

Wow. Such wise words. And then what...?

[viktory22]

"Do you play this game? Telling you how they messed up is like stating the obvious."

Why not take quotes out of context when proving an agruement. I never said the game isnt flawed.

I asked a rhetorical question about pvp. Since this post is about pvp, 1 on 1 with an agent im asking did they mess up pvp or is your toon too weak and not have a good tool set.

But seeing as you rather pull quotes out of context I guess my point was made when i put that people run to the forums instead of looking at their toon first.

Would like to see 2.1k def setup. Considering that CS *agent stun* checks AS skill

[Genie]

Why not take quotes out of context when proving an agruement. I never said the game isnt flawed.

So when you are defending a flawed game mechanic, you are not saying that the game is flawed?

[viktory22]

The game has flaws. I would like to know the flaw of the mechanic im defending



What aspect of the mechanic do you feel is flawed?

Because after reading this all the focus is on how agents are uber blah blah. And how someone hit reclaim faster than they're use to.


There are many toons that counter each other at tl5.
Agents can be countered by enfs/few fixers/keepers/agents/traders/engineers/Advys
I can personally name a good amount of people just on the professions above which have built toons to help beat agents.
I notice a list there of a a good amount of toons.
But once again i will make the point that tl5 is 75% of who gets the first hit.

So is the shade profession a flaw then to because at tl7 they can drop low hp twinks in 3sec?
Or how about enfs who can chain stun?
Or how about tl5 traders who can drop some1 AR -1700 instant?
Or NTs who can NBS?

Yes big alphas may be a problem but there are ways around them. The fact that the agent gets their best alpha abilites at tl5 is part of the game. Not every profession is equal at the same levels. MPs being one of them.

But to appease the questions of 2.1k dodge. i feel like that is false because to have a high AS recharge to land CS on you through that def means you sacrifice AR else where which in return makes feast/fuzz not land as often. And did you think the agent was self buffed in that fight is truely another question

[Moonbolt]

i got a TL 5 trader.....l it gets ripped apart by agents from sneak aswell in less then 2 seconds... and im trox.
i got a 150 MA tho that can beat most agents if i have DoF up while they try to gank me.

noone has claimed that agents are unkillable. they have claimed that their alpha is wayyyyyy over the top and that an agent in mimic enf has to much AR so they can land the perks to easy.

u seem to be one of the only person in this game to dissagree tho.

[viktory22]

Well an agent gets more AR from FP trader so thats 1 thing.
I dont disagree agent has the top alpha - but if you nerf them some other profession has to take the place?
The problem is that this is a complaint about a 2sec alpha which can deal 7k damage. The thing with the alpha used was it was agaisnt a low hp twink with mild evade setup. If i go run into your trader im sure you will beat me b/c i have low hp on my agent but a good AR.

I guess i just get tired of threads of people complaining. Because there are ways around toons. Its just no one choses to take them most the time. MP has ways to counter agents but once again first shot comes into play.


Your Tl5 trader gets destroyed out of sneak. Once again proving that the first hit is 75% what counts.

But maybe you should IP conceal and sneak up on that agent. Because im sure with 1 drain you can make that agent miss you with every shot. And if your trox, with wit up i doubt any agent hits you.

But with what everyone is saying about feast/fuzz/CS/AS.
Anyone can get feast/fuzz. Look at a tl5 soldier for instance FA/Burst/Feast/Fuzz (they lack stun)

Look at enfs who get FA/Brawl/SA/Feast (brawl stuns most of the time)
Ranged Advy burst/fling/AS/Feast
Both of those examples prove that a 2sec alpha is doable by a lot of professions. Its a matter of landing. The use of Agent to show landing is kinda sad. B/c im sure this MP would lose to an enf who has there speacils and 1 perk timed (2.4k ar is not fun)

The thing with the agent is that its the best alpha by far in total damage delt - part of the agent description is just that though. The problem with the agent alpha is that if one part is stopped it is normally countered and the agent squishs.

[Jekonam]

Well an agent gets more AR from FP trader so thats 1 thing.
I dont disagree agent has the top alpha - but if you nerf them some other profession has to take the place?
The problem is that this is a complaint about a 2sec alpha which can deal 7k damage. The thing with the alpha used was it was agaisnt a low hp twink with mild evade setup. If i go run into your trader im sure you will beat me b/c i have low hp on my agent but a good AR.

I guess i just get tired of threads of people complaining. Because there are ways around toons. Its just no one choses to take them most the time. MP has ways to counter agents but once again first shot comes into play.


Your Tl5 trader gets destroyed out of sneak. Once again proving that the first hit is 75% what counts.

But maybe you should IP conceal and sneak up on that agent. Because im sure with 1 drain you can make that agent miss you with every shot. And if your trox, with wit up i doubt any agent hits you.

But with what everyone is saying about feast/fuzz/CS/AS.
Anyone can get feast/fuzz. Look at a tl5 soldier for instance FA/Burst/Feast/Fuzz (they lack stun)

Look at enfs who get FA/Brawl/SA/Feast (brawl stuns most of the time)
Ranged Advy burst/fling/AS/Feast
Both of those examples prove that a 2sec alpha is doable by a lot of professions. Its a matter of landing. The use of Agent to show landing is kinda sad. B/c im sure this MP would lose to an enf who has there speacils and 1 perk timed (2.4k ar is not fun)

The thing with the agent is that its the best alpha by far in total damage delt - part of the agent description is just that though. The problem with the agent alpha is that if one part is stopped it is normally countered and the agent squishs.

So you believe its reasonable for 170 agent to kill well geared tl5 twink in 2-5 seconds?

I think not.

[erozc]

I dont disagree agent has the top alpha - but if you nerf them some other profession has to take the place?

Demonstration:

Prof.  Alpha
A       9001
B       5000
C       4600
D       4500

Nerf A to 4900:

Prof.  Alpha
B       5000
A       4900
C       4600
D       4500

Some other profession takes their place? I don't think so. Someone else is #1 but nobody takes their place at over 9000.

Myself, I don't mind the agents that bad but that's because I play engie. Enfs, on the other hand, are another matter...

[iolanda]

So what are we talking about again?

How mps cant evade agents or some agents ? Are we talking about 2.1k static def on a MP ? I never knew mps are the new top evade proffesions ingame or among em .
Or are we talking about those soo gimp nts ? Last time i checked they kill 9 agents out of 10 , wierd they are so gimp ...
Or yea the other gimps the trader proffesion ... oh god i feel sorry for the 1.9k+ static def they got , or the drains ... and so on ... how many agents do you kill and how many kill you ?

Oh and klod , just to make it perfectly clear other agents DONT get to kill me that fast because I CAN use free movment kits . But yea your all whining about what ? Getting killed by 1/2 agents out of 10 .
The amount of "stupid" you find in this thread is beyond ......



P.S Klody make a twink and try it out , you`ll notice things change they arent as people post and whine around on the forums . If you want to put facts up you`ll losse no matter what every action has a reaction/counter in 99% of situations .

I would be Pro nerfing agents if it really was as bad as you people stated but yet none of you post actual facts about the ratio betwen how many you kill and how many kill you .

[Moonbolt]

it is as bad as people have stated..
my MA has selfbuffed with top symbs i can get in 6.8k health..
if an agent catches me while i have essence and CS thats another 2k health brings me up to almost 9k.
if i dont have DoF up i die before i can react get an FM stim and a heal off.
if im lucky enough to have DoF running while the agent tries to gank me i get a nice 30% cap then i have a chance to actually kill the agent.
but MAs are pretty good vs agents its no complaints there.
but for alot of classses theres just no counter at all to agents... no matter how good they are twinked.
agents alpha can deal upwards 10k health in 2 seconds.. while stunning and snaring, wich is a wtfpwnihopeupaymeafterthisassinvasionatleast for some classes like MPs that doesnt have access to enough def to be unperkable by the top agents and doesnt have access to enough health to survive that alpha.
im pretty sure the same thing goes for NTs but they can well have it they got enough love vs other professions anyway.
same as any trader will get kicked over in less then 2 secs if the agent plays it smart.
its the speed and dmg of the alpha that is dissturbing people, i dont mind agents having a nasty alpha.. i doubt anyone do its kind of what atleast i thikn an agent should be.. a sniper not a doc with high AR and AS.
but its over the top.
so yeah 170 agents needs to get a nerf... the alpha they have are to strong.