Gaute's word on LLTS and criticals

[Animoy]

Just let engis build it....I wanna build something else than MCS's >.<

[Darkbane]

A form of vision enhancer for melee users should also be implemented. However, as melee users get FoB and EoH, this should give only about 1-4% crit boost.

[DaveDread]

Originally posted by Emperor Prozek
Give Martial Artists Self Crit buffs a massive decrease on Long Range Initiative. (This does not affect bows, as they use Physical Prowess Initiative - same as the martial arts attack).
Here i would like to refer to MA description...

The Martial Artist is the master of unarmed combat, bows and thrown weapons. They shy away from the technological weaponry of their time, and prefer the spiritual teachings of ancient cultures.
Anyone REad Extreme Low Light Targeting Scope in there?? :P or ICE / Shotgun for that matter! This is how it was intended, Using ICE or such with UVC should be entitled Exploit of System Mechanics!!!
[/B]

MA's are not masters of unarmed combat, Agents are. Followed by Engineers and Traders. Then we have MA's very closely followed by Enforcers (only difference being the +7 MA tattoos and the +8 blue MA suit) Sharp objects are still not in the game so yeah, MA's are supposedly masters of that I suppose, and noone except traders can selfequip the Ql200 bows. You can't look at the profession description and make statements like that.

Also, note that an MA wielding up a flashpoint and pulling off an alpha is completely unaffected by this change. The ranged init penalty isn't affecting the equip time of the gun, and the specials on it will always hit. It will however affect MA's who use ranged weaponry (other then bows) for extended periods of time. Nice basic idea, making us crit less it a good thing. Gawd, hate being at work and being unable to post anything except in 30 second spurts.

[Cemetarygate]

Cz,

From a coding aspect, how hard is making it so we can't stack crit modifiers versus adding init penalties? (i.e. MoP or UVC won't cast on someone wearing a LLTS, and LLTS won't equip on someone running MoP or UVC)

[Val]

I love the idea you plan on going with, should fix the problem nicely and NOT tick every oldtimer off, THX

It totally didn't make sense that a scope would help you target at close range anyway.

But i do believe that you will now need to make a major fix on the FoB to make this a viable replacement for LLTS

once again Thank you for seeing the light

[Dhurdahl]

Originally posted by DaveDread Also, note that an MA wielding up a flashpoint and pulling off an alpha is completely unaffected by this change. The ranged init penalty isn't affecting the equip time of the gun, and the specials on it will always hit.

This is actually a long standing bug report I have.... I have some nice shots when I hit Tara with a 3 points burst as lvl5...

But fixing this, aka using Attack to check if you hit, will affect alot of people that use specials... esp those that have blueish skills aka non soldiers... They will have their damage output lowered quite a bit by this since they can't hit as much with specials anymore.
Personally I think it would be good to have that change also since it's stupid an illogical for a lvl5 to hit Tara by any means.


Regarding equip time.... well it would also fit quite nicely if equiptime was modified by the init, same goes for the special recycle time..

[Kinkstaah]

A better idea is to just scale the amounts down.

QL200 LLTS - 12%
UVC - 20%
MoP - 4%

Etc etc etc.

I dont particularily like being shafted - Noone does. But to say "Flurry has no disadvanatage" IS JUST WRONG.

IT IS WRONG.
FLURRY HAS A BIG, BIG, BIG DISADVANATAGE.
FC even effectively said so when they "boosed it" in the words, "be careful as a high aggdef is a double edged sword"

A QL200 LLTS is not a double edged sword for a fast weapon. It's 100% an advantage.

So is MoP. So is UVC. Infact FoB is the ONLY crit enhancing item which has an effective downside. That is something which sucks.

1) MoP Should be penalized in terms of Init penalties to ranged weapons. Perhaps it should be removed altogether.
2) Prodigous Strength should add 5-7% crit chance for melee users.
3) Adventurer morphs should have a 5-7% crit chance on one, or more than one of them to balance it out.

And bump this post.

[______________Znails]

couple of thoughts

compensate those who have invested in ranged skills and wont be able to use them anymore with addisional IPR points (ranged MAs and others) there is alot of them.

If ranged users still have 15% scopes and meelers a 20sec 5-10% crit (not realistic to equip a ql 200 FoB for others than mebbe enfs), then make MoP/MoD/MoR Meele/Psy only, same way as uvc/lma/vs/sg.

[assassimon]

Now we take full responsibility for it being this way. I apologize that we have to change the rules, but this is the nature of an MMO (sadly). The number of variables are infinite. Anyway, If I as the game-director were to allow this to go on unchanged it would mean that I would have to increase difficulty of ALL monsters in the game to balance the additional lethal powers of the players. Everyone would have a much harder time.

It took a full lvl 190+ team over 5 min to kill 1 mob in ql250 mission, and Gaute think that is too easy so he need to increase difficuly on mobs?

It's easy now becuase even a full lvl 190 team only do 190-200 missions cuz it's best xp, the mobs are same lvl like 1 of us, ofcourse it's damn easy when we are 6.

[______________Znails]

also totally agree with what Azz is saying....

yellow mobs shouldnt be a challange for 6 ppl, should they? i mean is shouldnt take 6 lvl1 to kill a leet in the backyard should it ?

[Vdpmeat]

Originally posted by Mike "Kinkstaah" Bond

...
2) Prodigous Strength should add 5-7% crit chance for melee users.
3) Adventurer morphs should have a 5-7% crit chance on one, or more than one of them to balance it out.

And bump this post.

Why is it that people assume that Enforcers and Advents are the ONLY other non-ranged users?

Profession specific buffs are not the answer.

[smekkes]

doh.............

/me hugs his enforcer :/

[MrBunny]

You've got to be kidding me Gaute.

A few things to note please:

1. Base Critical Chance (3%)
2. Flurry of Blows (20% critical increase at QL 200)
3. The old "Low Light Targeting Scopes" (15% at QL 200)
4. Self Only MA Crit Buff (24%) or Crat Speech Crit Buff (11%) at high levels.

Summing this together you get 62% for Martiial Artist and 49% for everyone else. This is WAY-WAY too high for the system to handle without changes.

First of all, who the hell has a flurry of blows ql 200 and runs around with it using it all the time? I'd like you to check your database to see how many MA's run around with a ql 200 Fob. Secondly, how many MA's run around with a ql 200 llts? Check your database again. The point is, your talking about WHAT COULD BE, and with what the real picture is. The real picture is that there are hardly any MA's that run around using the prescribed set up above, critting for 75% all the time. Ever since you nerfed llts, I surely doubt alot MA's have been able to get their hands on them, putting them on, raising their fast attack skill an insane degree in order to use fob, and teaming up with a high level crat, to get that 75% chance to crit.

it's all about variables. Your variables are not probable.

"If we do it this way most people (hopefully) will see their interaction with the critical system change in a more logical way! (Targeting scopes for ranged combat, Martial Artist for his special abilities and so on). All people having an existing LLTS will be compensated."

You know where llts go right ? They go on your head, not your hands. They go in hud 3. Hud means heads up display. You know that right? Is it really not that plausible that in the eons that have gone by, technology couldn't come up with a device that allows to pinpoint vulnerabilities in another individual's body using the aid of nanobots? Furthermore, they display these properties on a HUD using a kind of scope?

But all sarcasm aside, The whole problem you first brought up with the announcement of nerfing scopes, is that you think the old ones were too over powered. Not that MA's were too over powered, but that the scopes were. Please check moderator's post for the wording when the announcement first came out.
And you will see what I mean.

Assuming that is what the problem perceived by funcom really is, then it would only be logical to either reintroduce the llts, back into the game. Or, to nerf the old llts. Or to bring them down to par with the current VE-llts. Is that so hard?

I know that even if you did this you would be breaking your promise to the player community about not nerfing the old llts, but hey.. when has funcom been known for keeping their promises?

Just nerf the Old LLTS. It lowers the crit chance on a MA and ranged user, and it brings it down to apparent acceptable levels of critting.

[______________Zizayu]

I agree with Kink... if you have to do this nerf, just lower the crit-increase on all items...

--

And.. how did the LLTS-nerf go from -"nerf LLTS" to -"players crit to much, nerf Melee-users"??

[___________Firedrake]

If you really are going to do things this way, please, PLEASE, PLEASE listen to those folks telling you that FoB is NOT, I repeat, NOT equivalent to a LLTS. FoB is triggered, only gives crit increase for a short time, and then can't be used for a while. Also when you use it you tend to receive more crits than you are giving out. I know this is repeating what has been said by several before, but as of yet I've seen no confirmation that anyone at FC realizes this. One last thing, whether or not you go thru with this nerf, please see if they won't consider taking off the "unique" tag on Flurry. Thanks

[________tavumebottes]

why not adding some crit chance increase(and a high ranged init debuff) to slayer droid transference

[Chronita]

i'll add a suggestion i made on another thread here as well - consider giving FoB a static crit mod to equal that amount you ultimately decide upon for the llts & VE's. you get the crit bonus by having it equipped, and you can still use the speed bonus as always. you can also add the ranged init penalty as a permenant mod as well.

this will at least make melee and ranged users even in the crit % dept as far as the item bonuses go.

[Vdpmeat]

Originally posted by Chronita
i'll add a suggestion i made on another thread here as well - consider giving FoB a static crit mod to equal that amount you ultimately decide upon for the llts & VE's. you get the crit bonus by having it equipped, and you can still use the speed bonus as always. you can also add the ranged init penalty as a permenant mod as well.

this will at least make melee and ranged users even in the crit % dept as far as the item bonuses go.

You can't equip a flurry as easily as a VE/LLTS.

[________________Empx]

Ummm.. whoever said that init debuffs or increased ranged init penalties will not affect you beyond your weapons base attack speed is smoking some serious crack. Woooo boy... serious crack.

Empx
199/Fixer/RK2


... and I do mean serious.

[Chronita]

Originally posted by VdpMeat


You can't equip a flurry as easily as a VE/LLTS.

true, so perhaps they should adjust the crit amount per ql a bit, or lower the equip reqs some. i dunno, just trying think of something here that will keep non-MA melee users happy. . .