Friday with Means - March 5th, 2010 - It isn't a sprint.

[Wrangeline]

I agree that a scaling BR is good but the way FC chose to make it "situational" was bad.

Overwriting all reflects on trader? You couldn't think of anything better than that? >.<

Have BR scale like you proposed.
Have BR last 10 sec on target and last 30s on trader.
Have cooldown be 1 min.
Have the positive effects like you proposed but the positive effect should not appear in our NCU if we have any reflect-buff there already.
Alternatively make the +reflect buff on the trader very small across the board so that it+rrfe wont be OP. For example +5 reflect to trader across the board and negative effect on target scales like you proposed. Or whatever.

That's just one approach though. There are other, completely different, approaches you could take as well to making this situational, useful but not OP. You got a lot of different approaches to choose from. So why choose one that just leads to frustration?

Going directly for the approach that cancels reflects on the trader is in my mind just turning an annoying nano for soldiers into a nano that is annoying for everyone AND annoying for the trader. Who exactly is supposed to end up having fun with this nano now?

Instead of spreading the "annoyance" around like butter on a piece of bread, how about making it a situational nano that has a reasonable effect when the situation calls for it, with cast-time for example as a situational drawback and then just leave it at that?

There's no need for BR to have a negative effect on the trader.

[heartless888]

self nerf or not the fact remains rrfe should not stack with other buffs, esp not 30% ones, just look at z shield for example

the new BR makes it really situational and btw, *self nerf* isnt really accurate, no matter how you look at it, you can nerf someones reflects so they die easier, if you think thats not worth it then i guess dont use it

im sure traders will cast it on really good solds etc

[Hacre]

im sure traders will cast it on really good solds etc

Yeah, because that really awesome Trader alpha will totally nail you through ~67% reflects.

Lol.

[NoGoal]

I have 3 questions:
Will BR work on Damage-to-nano reflects too?
Why not make BR overwrite reflects if the borrowed part is superior to the current reflect buff trader has? So if he already have rrfe he'll keep it.
Why stop the scaling at 60%? Add one at 80%, drains 30% give 40% to the trader.

[Wrangeline]

Will BR work on Damage-to-nano reflects too?

This is obviously not an official answer but so far on test server, BR has not worked on damage-to-nano type reflect like NT's have for example.

[Drakeep]

Anywhere but in /duel situation, this new BR seem to be only viable versus solja and shield MP, to the point we can assume noone will use it against anyone else. making it a specific nano against a single prof (ok 2) again while you claimed last week you would wipe the - 1 nano that hurts 1 prof concept - ... I am lost >.<. What about forgeting the BR idea totally and starting all over again ?

In duel : will give a small advantadge to trader in self buffed duel situation, wiping opponent's reflect graft / engy reflect etc. Can see some real use here. Altho i heard trader doesn't need any boost in selfbuffed /duel situations.

Doesn't make sense. Please play the game or show us you do allready, but at the moment i can't trust ya on that.

[heartless888]

Yeah, because that really awesome Trader alpha will totally nail you through ~67% reflects.

Lol.

AS will do wonders on 67 instead of 87%

[Hacre]

Altho i heard trader doesn't need any boost in selfbuffed /duel situations.

Depends who they're fighting and whether the Trader is pre drained or not.

AS will do wonders on 67 instead of 87%

No, not really. Especially when taking into account this change will come along with the change to AS. Even more especially when you consider that you'll only get -one- AS during the 10s debuff duration.

[heartless888]

Depends who they're fighting and whether the Trader is pre drained or not.



No, not really. Especially when taking into account this change will come along with the change to AS. Even more especially when you consider that you'll only get -one- AS during the 10s debuff duration.

god forbid one single click wont get people killed anymore?

[Hacre]

god forbid one single click wont get people killed anymore?

It hasn't since 40% caps were changed.

You also seem to be under the impression that I want BR left as it is. I don't. I'm also hoping for a better and varied toolset in place of LE nukes. So anymore HURR NT comments you'd care to throw? You know, coming from a guy who plays the nerfest prof in game and all.

[Suicidal]

Important message****************************

Let me start by saying "LOG IN YOUR ALTS!!!" Remember that on Monday-ish there will be a wipe of characters below level5 that have not been logged in for more than a year. Level 173 and below characters that have not been in game for 18 months will lose their names. Anything 174 and above that has not logged in for four years will also lose their name. I think we have been pretty good with holding on to ancient artifacts...but it is time for a little spring cleaning.
*************************************************

Yeah.. That wipe and name clean up.. There was some e-mail about 5$/EUR for a month thing.. is it available? Or was that e-mail sent by same people that said "The Collector", daily missions, and rebalancing will come next month (december 2009?)?

[Tlatoani]

People seem to forget that drains are different from buffs in that they have a negative effect on your enemy also. What's the point comparing it with RRFE? that doesn't take into account the negative effect the drain will have in you opponent. It's not as good a buff as it is RRFE, but that's because it's not meant to be a buff to compete with RRFE, it's a combat nano and it's meant to be used tactically.

Also, who told you, traders, that this was a "Trader love giving session"? You don't need more love, stop asking for more. Funcom is trying to fix ****ed-up nanos (very efficiently, I must say, one per week, by 2056 we will be done) and to take BR and change it to what it is (proposed) now is much better than deleting it completely along with all the nemesis nanos, which is how most people think funcom should proceed.

[Hacre]

People seem to forget that drains are different from buffs in that they have a negative effect on your enemy also. What's the point comparing it with RRFE? that doesn't take into account the negative effect the drain will have in you opponent. It's not as good a buff as it is RRFE, but that's because it's not meant to be a buff to compete with RRFE, it's a combat nano and it's meant to be used tactically.

Also, who told you, traders, that this was a "Trader love giving session"? You don't need more love, stop asking for more. Funcom is trying to fix ****ed-up nanos (very efficiently, I must say, one per week, by 2056 we will be done) and to take BR and change it to what it is (proposed) now is much better than deleting it completely along with all the nemesis nanos, which is how most people think funcom should proceed.

I'm guessing you don't play a profession that makes use of debuffs.

I'm going to assume for a moment, that you play a Soldier. So, in the spirit of the BR argument, how would you react if, say, NTs bitched to high heaven about your Tracer debuff, or Laser Paint Target (or all of them, what the hell). How would you react if a proposed change came along, that meant you can use your dodge debuff, however now it will debuff less dodge than it did before AND it'll overwrite your AR buffs in your NCU?

Because that's exactly what's happening here. I think I'm safe to assume that Traders would rather debuff 30% reflects from target and receive no reflects at all, rather than this current "proposal".

[heartless888]

I'm guessing you don't play a profession that makes use of debuffs.

I'm going to assume for a moment, that you play a Soldier. So, in the spirit of the BR argument, how would you react if, say, NTs bitched to high heaven about your Tracer debuff, or Laser Paint Target (or all of them, what the hell). How would you react if a proposed change came along, that meant you can use your dodge debuff, however now it will debuff less dodge than it did before AND it'll overwrite your AR buffs in your NCU?

Because that's exactly what's happening here. I think I'm safe to assume that Traders would rather debuff 30% reflects from target and receive no reflects at all, rather than this current "proposal".

well, id rather have a -3k debuff with 55% check tbh

[Tinypain]

I'm guessing you don't play a profession that makes use of debuffs.

I'm going to assume for a moment, that you play a Soldier. So, in the spirit of the BR argument, how would you react if, say, NTs bitched to high heaven about your Tracer debuff, or Laser Paint Target (or all of them, what the hell). How would you react if a proposed change came along, that meant you can use your dodge debuff, however now it will debuff less dodge than it did before AND it'll overwrite your AR buffs in your NCU?

Because that's exactly what's happening here. I think I'm safe to assume that Traders would rather debuff 30% reflects from target and receive no reflects at all, rather than this current "proposal".

Well I think your last point is what they are avoiding. The don't want just another nano that is going to be used in every single encounter with every single target.

[Hacre]

well, id rather have a -3k debuff with 55% check tbh

So would I, give please.

[Wrangeline]

Well I think your last point is what they are avoiding. The don't want just another nano that is going to be used in every single encounter with every single target.

Yes but there are better ways of limiting its use, as in making it situational, than removing reflect-buffs from the trader.

If this nano didn't overwrite rrfe or stack with rrfe but had a long-ass cast-time, then it would be very situational as a trader that is standing there casting BR for a while isn't doing anything else at all and that's the kind of thing traders can't do easily. If we're not casting drains and heals and such or kiting, we're going to die.

So it becomes a situational nano that way. No need to annoy the trader in any way to achieve what FC wants to achieve.

[Tinypain]

Yes but there are better ways of limiting its use, as in making it situational, than removing reflect-buffs from the trader.

If this nano didn't overwrite rrfe or stack with rrfe but had a long-ass cast-time, then it would be very situational as a trader that is standing there casting BR for a while isn't doing anything else at all and that's the kind of thing traders can't do easily. If we're not casting drains and heals and such or kiting, we're going to die.

So it becomes a situational nano that way. No need to annoy the trader in any way to achieve what FC wants to achieve.

What's wrong with my proposal of capped %reflect on anything non-soldier? I mean they do it with -%N.Cost per breed. If we had a cap then you can keep rrfe (or whatever buff you have) and the nano is a win/win, debuff target and gives you some extra reflects ontop of what you have (up to say 40% or 45% seems legitimate).

[Hacre]

What's wrong with my proposal of capped %reflect on anything non-soldier? I mean they do it with -%N.Cost per breed. If we had a cap then you can keep rrfe (or whatever buff you have) and the nano is a win/win, debuff target and gives you some extra reflects ontop of what you have (up to say 40% or 45% seems legitimate).

This, pretty much. Or just have it give a static 15% to the Trader and debuff the target based on their total reflects, but the amount debuffed when 60%+ should go up. Not strip Soldiers of -all- reflects but still make it noticeable especially with the new duration and lockout.

{edited by Anarrina: removed pointless bickering}

[Wrangeline]

What's wrong with my proposal of capped %reflect on anything non-soldier? I mean they do it with -%N.Cost per breed. If we had a cap then you can keep rrfe (or whatever buff you have) and the nano is a win/win, debuff target and gives you some extra reflects ontop of what you have (up to say 40% or 45% seems legitimate).

*confused*

What proposal? And what does this proposal have to do with what I said?