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Thread: Get Rid of Team Missions

  1. #1

    Get Rid of Team Missions

    This game is no fun anymore. It was bad enough before, when you had to hunt up to lvl 70 or so before you went to do BS missions and never returned. But now the entire life of ones character is spent in Team Missions.

    AO has such a humongous amount of beautifully crafted outdoor areas, but all I ever see are the same boxed in rooms of the same mission layout hundreds of times in a row (thousands if I want to get really high lvl.)

    Please seriously consider either nerfing the xp gains in Team Missions or removing them entirely. The game is too easy and to drab when doing nothing but team missions.

    Make tokens drop on mobs in outdoor hunting areas. Make outdoor layouts with LOS obstacles to cut down on how many mobs come at you at once. Make hunting viable!! MISSIONS SUCK!

    Sheesh, you guys could even make outdoor mission zones! Like the newbie areas! That would be TEH BOMB. Something. Anything...

  2. #2

  3. #3
    I accidentally posted this to the enf boards first and a couple of my Enf brothas made some good suggestions so I'm moving what they said over here..

    BrutalThug
    Soleet

    Registered: Nov 2001
    Location:
    Posts: 246

    quote:
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Originally posted by BaatouSuryanThiery
    So hunt outside and don't do missions. There, problem solved for you. Asking to nerf team missions is not the answer.

    As for tokens, tokens are rewards for performing a service to your company (Omni) or the clan exceptionally well. Why would they drop off mobs outside?
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------



    Team missions should be nerfed !!!
    why even have outdoor zones ? Have you travelled thru Clon**** lately ? one of my favourite zones its so cool.. same with SFH and SAV.

    Remove the exp slider on the team mission terminal and lots are fixed..

    actually if u have a good team (level 150+ for me) the best exp isnt in a mission.. but its rare that people wanna team up to do 2hour hunts

    Well wiseguy they should drop off outdoor mobs because killing those are helping Omnitek.. OT have (at game start) announced that all mutants are a result of Clan experiments and should be wiped out.

    They have tried to get people out of missions with the new dynacamps.. did some after patch and the exp werent worth it.. maybe it is now. But people seem to be locked in the NLC->BS route.. sadly including me :|



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    October 6th, 2002 22:12:11



    Scumbug
    Supa Leet

    Registered: Nov 2001
    Location:
    Posts: 880
    outdoor hunting
    I have been hunting outdoors, alone, for a week.

    I am level 168. I have yet to gain a level.

    That's how slow it is.
    I lose most of the XP I earn to death because I cannot fight
    more than 1 yellow mob at a time. There are no good hunting
    spots for the soloists. All mobs are too random, too close
    together, too aggro, the level ranges vary too much, are too
    far from a save point, and give too little XP.

    Players like me who would prefer not to live in BS missions,
    or who do not want to have how much time I spend ingame
    (and how long I can go AFK for) dictated by other people.

    Funcom needs to realize that solosits, and players who would
    prefer to explore and hunt outdoors, make up a larger perecent
    of the mmorpg playerbase than they seem to realize.
    In posts and articles, Funcom has expressed a severe bias
    towards teamplay. Team Missions are a perfect example.
    More XP. More Money. Team-mission-only Loot.

    Why is Funcom so predudiced against soloists?

    Why is exploring and actually hunting not a viable playstyle in AO?
    (not pulling from camps in teams.. I mean wandering the world
    taking on creatures you encounter 1 vs 1 and trying to avoid
    those you can't take) For this to be viable, you have to be
    able to expect to be able to do this for hours with some
    reasonable chance of survival. There also needs to be rewards
    comparable to other playstyles; that includes considering things
    like risk vs reward, time vs XP, as well as money/loot.

    here is what MUST be done to fix the world:

    Spawning:

    Greys, Yellows, and Reds should not all be
    hanging out together. An occasional scary Red
    that you have to watch out for is fun, but mobs
    that are sure to kill you should not be as commonly
    scattered about as the Yellows you are trying to hunt.
    Greys can even be a problem if they are social.
    A fight with one yellow mob becomes much harder
    if you're going to get 3 barely-grey buddies joining in.
    (and even if you survive, you're only compensated
    for the 1 yellow mob) Mobs of the same type in the
    same area should all be very close to the same level.

    Mobs need to do more than herd together in clumps too.
    I don't know if this is a problem with where they are spawning,
    or that they all tend to end up in the same little area, but it's near
    impossible to pull in these situations when everything is aggro.

    What outdoor mobs need is some sort of a 'personal space' sphere.
    Where if they are within X meters of another mob, they will
    wander out of that radius. This would be a simple method
    of controlling mob distribution and preventing herding/clumping.
    I also think this would be easier to implement than making
    massive changes to every spawn point on the planet.

    Another option, that I feel would give real life to the wildlife
    of the world, would be to implement a food-chain model.
    This is another way of controlling the animal population.
    Make some mobs occasionally aggro to other mobs.
    A Gimwolf may decide to snack on a snake every 30min.
    Assume the wolf can kill the snake. But if there are other
    snakes in the area that see the attack, they may assist,
    and kill the wolf. And maybe there are other wolves too . .
    What this does is allow mobs to take control of certain areas
    dynamically, so you wont have so many different mob types
    standing on top of eachother all the time.
    This is not as complicated to implement as it sounds,
    because it is alread implemented with the Omni vs Clan NPCs.
    All you have to do is implement the same 'faction' rules for Mobs.


    XP:

    It's taken me a week of hunting outdoors (at my level)
    to earn the same amount of XP as one or two team missions.
    XP is important. Soloists want to level too. Soloists have about
    the same level of patience and need for advancement as groupies.

    I suggest a two part fix to balance outdoor hunting XP vs team mission XP.

    1) if the player is not indoors (code to detect this already)
    then increase XP reward by 50% (+%XP code already there too)

    2) if player is not teamed, then increase reward by 50%.

    under these rules, a solo player in a solo mission would get
    50% more XP per mob. and a solo player hunting in the wild
    (a much riskier enviornment) would earn 100% (double)
    the XP per mob.

    This might sound like a lot, but it's not.
    Soloing will still be slower than team missions.
    But at least now it would be a viable way to play.

    Soloing a yellow mob that gives me 20K XP now,
    takes much longer per mob than being
    in a team fighting reds (orange now) earning 40K per mob.
    Even if I never died, it would still take longer to solo.
    But when you solo, you die a lot.
    Soloing abilites vary by profession of course,
    but as an Enforcer a single yellow add is often enough to kill me.
    ( and I'm relatively uber )

    Before anyone flames, do not react with team mission in mind.
    Go try to solo in EFP or DAV for a week, see how you advance,
    and then come back and tell me if double XP per mob is too much.
    (in practice, it may still not be enough)


    Loot:

    I have no problem with some Team-mission-only loot.
    But I feel there should be outdoor-only-loot too.
    This is NOT the same thing as uber-camp-boss loot.
    There should be somewhat desirable items that
    can only be found on mobs in the wild.
    This creates an economy where outdoor hunting is required.
    Those who risk more and level slower have something unique
    to offer the rest of the population. The fewer players that solo,
    the more the market will reward their findings. If only 2% of
    players hunt outside, the loot will be rarer and worth more.
    If 50% of the players hunt outside, the price naturally lessens.
    This creates a economic balancing effect that further encourages
    different playstyles. We have all this in Team missions already,
    the outdoor world deserves no less.


    __________________
    Scumbug


    Last edited by Scumbug on October 6th, 2002 at 23:10:11

  4. #4
    I'd like to add that I really appreciate FC's effort in adding all those outdoor camps. I really do! It must have taken a lot of effort and I think their hearts are in the right place.. they don't want to see people neglecting all their carefully made outdoor areas either.. But people are for the main part ignoring the new camps.

    I don't want to see thier efforts here get wasted. Something needs to be done to make being outdoors more attractive in comparison to team missions.

  5. #5
    I'm all for the team missions, static dungeons, and outside hunting areas. The more and varied content the better!!


    Bring it on!!
    Fear is the Mind Killer.
    You wasted life, why wouldn't you waste death?

  6. #6
    I agree with everything Scumbug said - particularly on the viability of soloing. FC, there *are* soloers out there, and I'm not just talking about low levels. Some of us do not find the idea of being *forced* to team to make any progress appealing. Luckily, I am still doing quite well soloing as a fixer, but soloing should be a viable option for all professions. There are a multitude of ways to socialize in an MMORPG other than endless team missions in BS.

    --K

  7. #7
    I'm all for doubling exp from outdoor mobs, when killed by a soloer. I'm an engineer. I just don't think it'd be fair for the rest of you.

    As for giving animals factions, that's more complex than it at first appears. So, wolves are the natural enemy of snakes, and presumably rollerrats, leets, and reets. Snakes presumably don't care for reets that much, or leets, but shy from wolves unless there're several of them. Rollerrats hate everything. Lets see here, that's not one faction flag, that's one for each "family" of animals. It might be workable, but I don't think it's as easy as you make it out to be.

    Now the idea of unique loot-tables for outdoor mobs. That's something. Perhaps mobs in missions shouldn't drop any coin unless they're human, after all, the whole point of coin on mobs is the bounty on exterminating the things. Additionally, the idea of mobs in the wild having access to certain things that they WOULDN'T in a mission is realistic. If the area is rich in notum, outdoor mobs might drop nuggets of the stuff they picked up. The pelts of wild, outdoor mobs, might be in better shape than the ones that are found on half-starved mission mobs. Actually, the idea of certain mobs that NEVER venture into mission like areas, and the fact that I think there are certain whole families of mobs you won't find in a mission, might be an even better solution. Granted, rats go everywhere, and blubbags were bred for mining, but others are more open-area mobs. How often do you see a gofle in a cave? How about a rhinoman, (not that I'd want to make war on the noble rhinos)? If the loot tables for these non-cave-dwelling, non-domesticatible, mobs had certain valuable loot, it might make it worth it to seek these mobs out for that loot.

  8. #8
    Originally posted by Sean Roach

    As for giving animals factions, that's more complex than it at first appears. So, wolves are the natural enemy of snakes, and presumably rollerrats, leets, and reets. Snakes presumably don't care for reets that much, or leets, but shy from wolves unless there're several of them. Rollerrats hate everything. Lets see here, that's not one faction flag, that's one for each "family" of animals. It might be workable, but I don't think it's as easy as you make it out to be.
    Easy is relative.

    As far as suggestions go, I think it's within realistic reach.
    The basis for it is ingame already. That's where all suggestions
    should start. Something that we know the code/engine can support.
    Funcom has limited time and talent and money, so you have to
    ask for things in the simplest possible terms for it to even be considered.

    You are wrong about the faction thing.
    Every class of mob already has its own faction.
    How else would animals of the same family assist eachother
    if they all dont already have thier own 'faction'?
    Wolves assit Wolves. Wolves do not assist Snakes.
    The mobs can already tell the difference. It's already implemented.

    Now all you need to do is take those factions (mob families)
    and expand the behaviour rules. That is the only additional
    thing funcom would have to do to give us an immersive,
    realistic, dynamic wildlife environment. Which along with
    the 'personal space' radius suggestion I made would allow
    just about anywhere on the planet to viable for hunting.


    here's how it could work as simply as possible:
    (focusing on the most complicated faction, a predatory animal)


    1) if Grimwolf popultion <X within area 1234 then spawn Grimwolf.
    for the purpose of this example, assume it fails check.

    2) spawn Grimwolf, assign items for loot table, etc
    feeding status: not hungry

    3) start feeding timer: set to 1 hour.
    (variable by mob type, should be determined by funcom
    based on desired affect on the mob population)

    4) check 'personal space radius'
    ('personal space radius' variable, depends on mob type)
    if any mob is less than 'personal space radius' distance,
    proceed to 4a. if no mob within radius, proceed to 5.

    4a) move random min-max meters random X,Y direction.
    recheck personal space radius.

    5) resume normal existing mob movement and behaviour.
    recheck 'personal space radius' every 5 minutes.
    (dont want to overload the server with these checks;
    every few minutes should be enough to keep them spread out)

    6) upon feeding timer expiration, activate hunger.
    upon hunger, aggro upon the first lower level non-family mob detected.

    (here the Wolf either wins or dies)

    7) reset feeding timer.



    The net result is a mob population with hard controlled numbers,
    spaced far enough apart to make hunting viable,
    with a dynamic ecosystem that allows mob families to take control
    of certain areas for a time period until either adds/respawns from
    the other mobs changes the balance of power in that small area,
    or until players kill off enough of the dominant mob type to
    restore the original spawning balance of numbers.


    example:

    assume 1 Wolf can kill 1 Snake
    assume 2 Snakes can kill 1 Wolf

    Wolves spawn and wander away
    Snakes spawn and wander away

    Wolf gets hungry and attempt to feed on Snake.

    now, either the Wolf wins, and there's one more Wolf
    between the area where Wolves spawn and the area
    where Snakes spawn . . or the Snake gets assited by
    another Snake that happened to by nearby and now
    there is one less wolf in that middleground.
    It's left to random luck of movement and timing really,
    but it creates an enviroment capable of change,
    and that's pretty damn cool IMHO.

    Now players can temporarily affect the wildlife population too,
    because If they were to move into that middleground between
    where Wolves spawn and where Snakes spawn, and start killing
    Wolves. . then Snakes will begin to take over that area until
    random luck allows the Wolves to retake that land.


    edit:
    It's not so black and white as I made that sound.
    There's no mob-war going on, and any shifts to
    population/location are going to be gradual and minor.
    Mobs spawn all over and woud move randomly
    so the territory affected wouldn't always be the same.
    All of this would just be a lovely side-effect
    to the main purpose of improving outdoor hunting
    and making solo play viable.


    I'm not saying this stuff wouldnt take work,
    but given that most of the mechanics already exist,
    it isn't suggesting the impossible,
    and would be well worth it to the game/funcom/players.
    Last edited by Ejeckted; Oct 7th, 2002 at 05:12:06.

  9. #9

    Defining the typical player

    Perhaps FC should conduct entry polling; I know EQ has done it a few times. You log in, get diverted to a questionaire instead of character selection.

    Some possible questions suitable for multiple choice answers, ie satisfied, needs work, sucks.

    Do you PvP? How much? Should it be more accessible?

    Which is the best/most playable class in your opinion? Which needs the most work?

    How do you feel about:
    the current faction arrangement?
    mission design?
    the interface?

    the list of possible questions goes on.

    Edit:
    Regarding the mob war advocated above, dynamic spawning would seem to make sense. Kill off all the OT spawns in an area, the number of Neut/Clan spawns increase to fill the gap. Maybe (please!) we can make rollerrats an endangered species (my vote is for EXTINCT).
    Last edited by DocSmock; Oct 8th, 2002 at 01:19:33.

  10. #10
    I still say what you're suggesting would require a total rewrite of the relavant code.

    Families can assist other families without too much code involved.

    Families COULD prey on select other families without too much code involved, but it'd require a table of prey for each family. Mobs that they WOULD attack.

    Of course, if FC did decide to re-write the code controlling mobs and mob spawning. Having a mob only spawn when two mobs, presumably of the same family, bump into each other could be fun too. So, it'd take two rollerrats to suddenly have three. It'd take two leets before there could be three leets.

    Even better would be if every mob had a timer, in any location, the mobs upgraded every few hours that they survived. So you have a leet, which wouldn't do anything if it bumped into another leet, 2 hours later, since it's still alive, it 'evolves' into an eleet, which proceeds to survive for a couple hours, thus evolving into a soleet, etc. When a leet survives to, say, supraleet or higher, then if it bumps into another one, you'd have a new 'litter' of leets. In out of the way areas, you'd generally have a lot of high end mobs of any given family, while close to town, any town, the mobs would tend to be newbie mobs.

    Of course, some mobs would need to spawn randomly in some areas, and any area that truly became devoid of any mob would need to have a basic noah's ark of mobs spawned to fight it out. Can't have the area around Tir swept clean of mobs all the time. Some levels need a cradle after all.

    Also, the mobs should be super-subseptable to certain "conditions". Some mobs should ignore the fact they're in a desert setting, (sand worms for instance), but do rather poorly in swampland. Others should thrive in the wetlands, but struggle when found in the deserts. This could be done by adjusting the feeding timer, so a mob in imicible climates needs to eat more often, adjusting the feeding table, so mobs that don't belong are targeted for kibble first, adjusting the maturity rate, so mobs that are out of place don't grow up very fast, (and thus are consumed more often, before they can breed,) and adjusting the litter size when two adults "breed", so mobs in inappropiate climates tend to come from litters of one, while mobs in ideal climates show up in litters of six to twelve. In this case, the "type" of terrain could be determined in the same way that the sounds of walking are chosen, by the texture on the ground. If it looks like sand, and sounds like sand, it's desert. It if looks like swamp, and squishes, it's wetland. Etc.

    Another consideration is how do you account for "food" for herbavores. The best way to do this, would be to give every few feet a grazing value. That number should be incremented, to some max, over time, but decrement by some set amount whenever a planteater in the area suddenly becomes hungry. If there's not enough value, move a few random places, and eat there. If there isn't enough at all, start decrementing health until food is found or the thing drops as a corpse. The same should be true of predators that don't manage to find something to hunt.

    Food chain, growth cycle, territorial claim, climate response and breeding. Properly balanced, these could make for a truly dynamic setting.

    But then again, most of these ideas would take way too long to re-do, especially since they are working as they are. I'd love to see it, but I really doubt I will.

  11. #11

  12. #12
    you people type too much.
    -------------

    anyway, .....


    Get rid of team missions, please.

    Increase spawn rates in all the old popular places.

    Take a look at the popular places, and copy them for high lvl hunting areas.


    This game used to be so much more fun, before they renamed it, "Missions Online".
    {Beyond the Drunken Master, is the Plastered Master} Lilasiandude 216 MA
    Proud Member of Storm, and the Betty Ford Clinic

    -Sllammer 216 enf. - Frank the Tank! Frank the Tank! Frank the Tank! Click!

    BE STORM

  13. #13
    Do not remove team missions I say. I want both missions and outdoor hunting grounds. I actually prefer missions, since I think outdoor hunting is even more boring. In fact I really hate hunting outdoors.

    And a polling system would be really sweet. There is a lot of people who never even visits this message board, so I think FC would be smart to make a polling system so that everyone can participate.

  14. #14
    lol@ Missions Online.

    I don't think they need to go as far as dynamic spawns really. Although that would be really neat, I'm trying to keep this as realistic as possible.

    FC is trying to get people outdoors there's no doubt, but it isn't just lack of content that keeps people in doors. Its the indomitable Team Mission.

    When teams on the newbie chan get together, they don't go outside of tir or omni ent to hunt. They go do a team mission. When teams lvl 20 get together, they don't go to bot mountain. To even suggest such a thing would earn you ridicule. They go do team missions. Ad infinitum.

    I was in a team the other day, we had just completed a team mission. The team was sticking together to do another mission. I was thinking about this thread, so I said "I'm cool with doing another mission, but do you guys have any interest at all in doing something outdoors?"

    2 people immediately left team. Doc said "I'm outta here," I asked why, "well we don't know what we're doing." Another person said, "What is outdoors?"

    The team evaporated at the mere suggestion of going outdoors. I just don't think that adding more content is going to draw people away from these team missions. Either more risk or less reward needs to be implemented.

  15. #15

    Lightbulb Missions vs Hunting Ideas/Thoughts/Random Jottings

    Reduce the maximum size of missions, should max out at about 100 MOBs.

    Tweak the auto-layout generator to put in more large 2-3 MOB rooms in team missions.

    Reduce all xp from mission MOBs by 5-10% but keep loot about the same - missions should be primarilly for loot, hunting primarilly for xp.

    Tweak xp of MOBs to be more in keeping with their relative difficulty, the designers have talked a lot about risk-reward, so get them to put their money where their mouth is. Social MOBs outdoors should also be worth a bit more xp.

    No spawning omni and clan MOBs in same mission (mixing in neutral MOBs is fine though).

    Solo missions should have narrower range of MOB difficulties, team mission level range is fine. In a solo mission at 50%, most MOBs should be yellow, with some minor variation either side.

    Outdoor areas should have more consistent MOB levels in a narrower range than is often the case now. Typically, if most MOBs in an area are say level 50, then there should be a smaller number at level 55 and a few rare spawns at level 60 (ie +10% and +20%). This rule could be applied only in areas of the map which are set as 'hunting spots', other areas could have a wider spread and not be intended as hunting places.

    Hunting spots should cover all levels and all sides.

    Social MOBs could have levels of socialness, such that some MOBs will always aid their compatriots, some would aid most of the time, and some only aid rarely (ie code an extra field into the DB which holds a probability value and when a MOB of this type is attacked, have the MOBs within range roll randomly against this value and only aggro if they roll within the probability). More social MOBs would get a bigger xp bonus than less social ones in this case.

    Having the odd low-mobility MOB of much higher level than the norm is fine in some areas (ie the desert emerite in Danger Dunes) - its something you need to avoid and plan round.

    Outdoor MOBs should have different loot tables from indoor ones. This will allow some items to be outdoor only.

    Wandering bosses - these would spawn at random, in semi-random locations and wander about their area. Only one would spawn in an area at any one time. Once killed, another might spawn quickly or it may be hours later. These could be of the non-unique boss variety such as in team missions and camps, but also of the unique variety with their own special loot.

    The idea of killing one MOB forcing the spawn of another could be taken further too, with all MOBs being given a special flag which is usually 0, but would be set to 1 from time to time (every x spawns for a particular MOB type). If this MOB is killed, a mini-boss MOB of the same type would be spawned nearby with a chance of some different loot.

    A new mission zone type could be added that had the appearance of being outdoors (it would still be an indoors zone, it would just look outdoors). This would basically be a mini outdoors playfield generated at random (would need a different generator from the other types mind you), a mix of narrow canyons/paths and large areas with rocks, trees etc. MOBs in such a mission would have the same aggro rules as outdoor MOBs (ie range based rather than room based). Perhaps something for a future booster pack?
    Last edited by Darkbane; Oct 8th, 2002 at 12:12:09.
    "Do not try and catch the hamster... that's impossible. Instead only try to realize the truth... There is no hamster, only a deadbeat rollerat..."

    [Social] Means: I don't think we removed any bosses because of bad pathing...there wouldnt be any left if we did :P

    AO Character Skill Emulator and Character Parser and AO Implant Layout Helper

  16. #16
    Darkbane wrote...
    A new mission zone type could be added that had the appearance of being outdoors (it would still be an indoors zone, it would just look outdoors). This would basically be a mini outdoors playfield generated at random (would need a different generator from the other types mind you), a mix of narrow canyons/paths and large areas with rocks, trees etc. MOBs in such a mission would have the same aggro rules as outdoor MOBs (ie range based rather than room based). Perhaps something for a future booster pack?
    I suggested something like this once or twice, and I'm not the only one. It'd be simpler than that. If they chose to isolate a few craters, (the one near tir, the crater farm, is already accessible from one end only, unless maybe if you fly,) they could have a wilderness area easy enough. If they built a few walled compounds, they might have an outdoor military base or three.

    Rooms would be easy. No doors, for the most part, as there would be no walls you couldn't walk around. The risk, to the player, of such a playfield, would be the increased chance of mobs assisting from "another room".

    Imagine this scenario. You "zone" into a crater or valley, to find a verdant paradise. Each tree or copse stands in a rectangle that would be a room in an indoor playfield. A springfed pond is centered on another such "room". In another rectangle, which would be a room in an indoor playfield, is a boulder surrounded by grass. In one spot, there is a clump of shoulder high grass hiding all but the tallest mob.

    In all of these, a certain base vegatation would need to be determined, otherwise you'd have rectangular edges to remind people that each spot is a room. I'd recommend ankle high grass, such as you find most spots, wetland, rotten leaves, or sand.

    I'd also recommend the aggro range of any mob in such a mission be reduced to only a few yards, or the whole mission load would aggro on the hero the moment he zoned in.

    As far as the objective. It should be fairly hard to spot with the type of cover I've described, and even if you could see it, you'd have to get from one end to the other to reach it.

    Now the other idea is the walled compound. Basically the same, but you throw in parked vehicles, (especially troop carriers), and buildings with their own doors. Basically a private town to hunt in, but no shops. All the buildings would be part of the same playfield, and centered on the "room" they occupy.

    These could be more realistic than the system we have now, as a single building might be a static thing, with the right mix of rooms for a given purpose, (no power plant next to the board room, actual halls to connect the rooms, instead of the haphazard system the mission generator builds now.) Also, it's flexible. A walled compound could be a military base, a research station, or a mining base. All would justifiably have guards and walls.

    As for your other ideas.

    I think the maximum number of mobs should be based on the number of people accepting the mission. More for larger teams, fewer for smaller teams.

    Agreed. More multi-mob rooms in team settings. (I solo the things with a pet, which shouldn't be as easy as it is. But then again, I just reached 71.)

    Yes, reduce xp for missions, but increase it at the same time for outdoor, but don't do away with it or reduce it too far. One of the advantages of missions is you can always find something easily that's in your level range. No realizing that 50% of the mobs in your area are now grey, and wondering what the new best area to hunt in is.

    Actually, if it was easy to get suggestions from the NPC's on areas to hunt. Just one mob per side that had somewhere between 40 and 200 missions, one for each level or five, with minimal exp or coin, to just put a pointer on the map for you.

    Walk up to it at level 5, and it sends you back to the backyard. Level 10, and it puts you right outside, (or perhaps right outside the other starting city,) 15 and it sends you a little farther out, ... , 100 and it points out a spot that is nice and golden for you, but takes two whompas and a yalm to reach, or a high Comp. Lit.

    Perhaps several "missions" per level range. No real reward, no coin, not even completable, just a way to find a good spot to camp for a few levels.

    Agreed. Social mobs should be worth more, both in exp and loot, because of the risk in pulling and fighting one. OR they should be considerably weaker than non-social mobs of the same level. Ganged up on by midgets will leave you just as dead, even if they go squish when you step on them.

    I'd like to see narrower difficulties on solo missions, but I've noticed that if they tend to be orange, there tend to be fewer of them. I might be mistaken on that.

    You should definately be able to hunt greens and yellows without too much worrying about when a red is going to show up. Outdoor areas would be much more attractive if you could hunt a narrower level range in them. This does not go for non-aggro mobs. An area that's optimized for hunting in the 30's can have a few level 90 mobs provided the mobs don't attack out of hand.

    Agreed. There should be hunting for everyone. I suspect that's the case now, and I just don't know where to look for the right mobs.

    Agreed. Mobs that MIGHT assist would be more interesting. Also mobs that MIGHT aggro and MIGHT not, and don't change their mind if you hang around too long. And again, balancing XP and loot is one way to balance social mobs. Balancing individual mobs HP and damage is another. Solitary mobs might be built like a tank, and hit like a sack of rocks compared to a super-social mobs tissue-paper skin and 98 pound weakling damage.

    Agreed. Highly dangerous rooted mobs can be avoided...sometimes, and that'd be good.

    Wandering bosses. Yes. But you need an escape from them. Some way to semi-reliably avoid them if you don't think you're up to the challenge.

    Also, they shouldn't be too much tougher than what triggers them, or they should be easily outran. "Clear the zone, ownz just popped. :>" They should also DEspawn after awhile.

  17. #17
    Sean I LOVE the idea of the multi-building mission zones.

    For instance a lvl 100 team zones into a crater out in EFP.. inside is an outdoor zone complete with small 2 or 3 level buildings, with rooms and mobs inside to clean out. And also guards roaming around outside, which would give a good mix of outdoor hunting and indoor mission action.

    Your mission is to infiltrade the clan base in EFP and neutralize their genetic testing facility. Those dirty clanners are trying to breed an even stronger type of roller rat to hide in doors and chests. After going in and stealthily taking out the guards on the outside, you go through a few buildings, killing the crats and nt's who are inside offices running the show. One of the buildings is a gym, with a lot of atrox enfs who don't appreciate their workout being interrupted and charge at you wielding dumbells. Finally you find the testing facility.. on the 3rd floor is a lab with 8 foot tall mutant rollerrats. When you wipe out the rats you get a token and get some phat lewt from them while you're at it.

    Anyway, just a rambling thought. A way to incorporate the outdoor feel into the mission system.

    I'm changing my stance a little - either make missions less attractive compared to hunting, or make them more imaginative, and still make hunting more viable.

  18. #18
    u guys said all the good schtuff already so i'll just...

    BUMP!
    Blue Steel(TM)

    E 86% - S 60% - A 33% - K 20%
    http://www.andreasen.org/bartle/

    SL upgraded oct 10, 2003

    RK2 - Derek"Rayfield" Zoolander
    RK2 - "Umeshiso" Maki
    RK2 - Sylvester "Code187" Vallone

  19. #19
    Yes, the reason missions are so popular is that you don't have to deal with jackasses and killstealers and campers.

    It's one of the strongest points of this game. You get people you trust and you can go do something.

    Problem is, that what you do is so boring it makes your ears bleed. Hence people ask for something to do outside. They add in the outdoor quests and everybody gets pissed over people camping Trash King and Jack Clones or hogging DynaCamps.

    Missions are the solution to not having to deal with the idiots and being able to 'do something' on a moment's notice. It's just that we're all sick to death of being put back 20 years into the original Doom tileset (and AI).

    Missions should be indoors and out, have a chance to be failed without ruining your night, should involve more than killing. It's all been said before so I'll stop with this bit.

    But, the key point about missions is that they solve so many anti-social issues that have plagued previous MMORPG's. They actually work in terms of their main goals. Now we just need them to be good. That means variety and applicability to more than a maximum of 6 players.

    I'd love to take 20 of my guildies on a 'mission' that took 3 hours for us to complete spanning 3 autogenerated playfields that may or may not include the tired Doom indoor mission.

  20. #20

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