Traders smallest pop @ 220

[Heliost]

I agree that traders are the rarest class atm from my experience. But from that statistic you can see that the rarest classes are also NTs, shades and agents.

Not sure how it is on RK1 but on RK2 every time I turn my head I see at least 1 trox shade, 1 NT and 1 agent ... be it bor, be it OA, be it BS .... but I always see them... and traders are just logged in, inside backyards.

[Shareida]

Total population != Active population.

If you want to play with statistics get a real source first..

Here's the list if you check online players:

prof	online	

doc	23	19%
sold	18	15%
enf	13	11%
advs	9	7%
crat	8	7%
eng	8	7%
fixer	7	6%
mp	7	6%
shd	7	6%
nt	6	5%
kpr	5	4%
ma	5	4%
trader	4	3%
agent	2	2%
total	122	100%

Now if this can be trusted, make that list every hours or so, make real stats and maybe we can get something to talk about.

Now, i am absolutely certain, those 4 traders there are 220/30 traders too.

Define "needs" and put them in the perspective of game balance.

Needs, as in "ten soldiers, ten docs, and ten NT's cry louder as one trader".

Hope that clears it up.

[Armus]

This is exactly the essence of the problem with traders (read: GTH) - if a trader or two are present, it is detrimental to the PvP environment as a whole. I don't recall a single profession ever having the ability to take away other peoples enjoyment of PvP so categorically.

Bump for that.

We did some org bs earlier. Or I should say we tried. We had a team with 4 soldiers. The opposing side had one good trader. Which meant that when our groups bumped together we were unable to use our def, all 4 of us, so we got trounced every time by the other side. A few times we buried all our alphas into that very traders 100% reflect that he/she had obtained previously from someone else.

The result: A few logged and all of us left. Because yeah, having all the efforts put into a team of toons nulified because of one nano is no fun, not worth paying for.

[lostlife]

traders can show up after AMS has been cast.
also, population comparison is nothing compared to authentic pvp comparison.

[Tergx]

traders can show up after AMS has been cast.
also, population comparison is nothing compared to authentic pvp comparison.

population comparison is just 1 part of the puzzle, and any "authentic PvP comparison" will be debated by everyone with a different opinon. My opinion is the same as it always has been, those whining are whining because they got drained/debuffed/rooted/killed/or whatever and want to make it seem like there are bands of trader roaming around, so much so, that everyone is drained, GTH'd, and has YEEIYF running on them. That is simply not true.

Yes, over the course of a battlestation, a trader may land gth on more than 1 player, BUT NOT AT THE SAME TIME (/duh) so unless there is a vast majority of Traders in every pvp encounter, it's just a bunch of b.s. That's why I put those numbers up. Traders are a very difficult profession to take to 220, that is why there are so few, add to that the fact that we sucked hard for years after shadowlands.

Like I said, numbers are numbers, they don't lie, they just are

[Obtena]

traders can show up after AMS has been cast.
also, population comparison is nothing compared to authentic pvp comparison.

WHAT? The population comparison is completely relevant. It's a risk assessment like anything else. Do you not go outside in thunderstorms either because you fear being hit by lightning?

OFC population needs to be considered. That's just ridiculous to say the relative population of traders to other profs isn't important when considering how often you get GTH or BR. Risk = severity * occurence.

[lostlife]

i wasn't saying population isnt important, i was saying that what happens in actually PvP is much more important.

what im saying is that population shouldn't be the center of a arguement, just a sidenote.

[Armus]

Like I said, numbers are numbers, they don't lie, they just are

They also don't really mean or prove anything about how enjoyable a class is in pvp or pvm, or overall. The opposite of which I believe is what you are insinuating.

Docs are the most common class, and while they are hard to kill 1 vs 1 unless you happen to be a trader (!) or possibly an mp, they rank very low on the pvp enjoyment scale. Always killed first, can't really kill anything outside a duel. @ tl7 that is.

[Tergx]

i wasn't saying population isnt important, i was saying that what happens in actually PvP is much more important.

what im saying is that population shouldn't be the center of a arguement, just a sidenote.

that's what I'm talking about, what ACTUALLY happens. Statistically, yes, there is always the possibility that one may end up in PvP against a group with alot of traders, but this would be the exception not the rule.

traders are in no need of any more nerfs, nor is anyone else. New content is great, nerfs are not. Saying that 1 nano is the cause of imbalance in PvP shows how naive the posters saying that are. Who cares about 1 vs 1 pvp. If someone is afraid of getting debuffed by one of the few traders around, then travel with a group or get into a mech. Grow a pair why dontcha.

If you take an inexperienced trader in pvp, and throw em into battle against experienced pvp non-trader professions, they will get their azz handed to em. That is reality. There are contless factors that go into a pvp battle besides what

• nano a trader casts lol. Like :
• how experienced your target is
• how good your target is
• how well your opponent is setup for pvp
• what support do they have
• has your opponent noticed you
• are all your perks up
• do you have a strategy
• are you with a group that uses tactics
• (I could go on)

PvP engagements are way too complicated to say crap like "omg drains are op" , "gth ruins pvp", "traders can kill anyone , anytime". If a trader kills a bunch of players then they know what they are doing, but I have seen many more professions besides traders be excellent at pvp. I've gotten my but kicked by quite a few non-traders. That's the game.

[Tergx]

But my whole point was: 1 trader is enough to make 4 or more soldiers not use their defensse=the whole group is easily owned by other profs.

so 1 of the 4 soldiers loses their ams and dies, then the trader dies from the other 1,2,3 .........if you hang with a group of 3 other soldiers that get "easily owned by other profs" then get some new soldier frandz to pvp with.

Whenever I meet a good soldier on the BS it can be very close (so I have no BR up), and not at all predictable. That means that neither of us is sure of the outcome until after the battle is over and either I am in decon or the soldier is.

In order for all these arguments that traders are OP to work, one has to assume a great many things in a perfect predictable environment. Such does not exist, except in peoples minds for the sake of argument.

[Obtena]

i wasn't saying population isnt important, i was saying that what happens in actually PvP is much more important.

what im saying is that population shouldn't be the center of a arguement, just a sidenote.

It's not the center of the argument, it is the argument TBH. IN the extreme case, if there is no population of traders, then it's silly to complain about trader debuffs because the occurence of traders doing mean things to you is zero. I think that's the point of the thread ... not many active traders at TL7, even fewer doing TL7 PVP = very low chance to get F'ed over by one, especially in the case where the trader to ANYTHING ELSE ratio is very low. Chances are REALLY good that you aren't their target.

Of course, traders target soldiers whenever they get the chance ... they are supposed to.

[NoGoal]

Now, i am absolutely certain, those 4 traders there are 220/30 traders too.

I don't get what you mean there but here's the list right now:

Name  		Breed  		Gender 	Level  	AI
Martho 		Opifex 		Female 	220 	28
Wrangeline 	Solitus 	Female 	220 	27
Larnaqueur 	Solitus 	Male 	220 	25
Shareida 	Solitus 	Female 	220 	24
Arlek 		Nano 		Male 	220 	22
Tritonthor 	Solitus 	Female 	220 	20

Lowest is AI 20.

[Armus]

that's what I'm talking about, what ACTUALLY happens. Statistically, yes, there is always the possibility that one may end up in PvP against a group with alot of traders, but this would be the exception not the rule..

So in my case you're claiming a trader isn't going to be spamming BR 24/7 as soon as he sees a soldier fighting someone else?

traders are in no need of any more nerfs, nor is anyone else. New content is great, nerfs are not. .

I guess you want orbital strike back as well then.

Saying that 1 nano is the cause of imbalance in PvP shows how naive the posters saying that are. .

Except it does. There are countless examples of this. And if gth, br etc don't make much of a difference as you claim then why do you want to keep them sooo badly?

Who cares about 1 vs 1 pvp.

Everyone that does bs, duels or city pvp.

If someone is afraid of getting debuffed by one of the few traders around, then travel with a group or get into a mech. Grow a pair why dontcha.

You just described exactly how powerful the trader toolset truly is: ge in a mech if you don't like to become useless in 1 second.

If you take an inexperienced trader in pvp, and throw em into battle against experienced pvp non-trader professions, they will get their azz handed to em. That is reality. There are contless factors that go into a pvp battle besides what

• nano a trader casts lol. Like :
• how experienced your target is
• how good your target is
• how well your opponent is setup for pvp
• what support do they have
• has your opponent noticed you
• are all your perks up
• do you have a strategy
• are you with a group that uses tactics
• (I could go on)

Well. In general thats true ofcourse. Not that a green trader has any problem landing BR on a 220/30/70 soldier with every item in game.

PvP engagements are way too complicated to say crap like "omg drains are op" , "gth ruins pvp", "traders can kill anyone , anytime". If a trader kills a bunch of players then they know what they are doing, but I have seen many more professions besides traders be excellent at pvp. I've gotten my but kicked by quite a few non-traders. That's the game.

The sum of it all is that the trader toolset is just too powerful in general and some parts of it are rediculous of their own.
In general I agree that improving others are better than nerfing. But when something is so over the top, around the moon and back overpowered like gth or br it would mean HUGE consequences for the whole game if we were to balance it with huge innate resists or NR for everyone.
That would in turn nerf every other caster. Which in turn would need their nanoskills increased vastly.

So a serious nerf or removal is the only practical way with gth, and br (and a few other non trader nanos, such as RI for instance).

[lostlife]

@tergxj
the words sound like your agreeing with me, but the tone says your not :/

there are some things that are in need of nerfs:

BR: removing the reflects isnt bad, makes a hole in a awsome defense, the fact that a trader is unkillable for 30 secs afterwords is.
now, because the hardcap on reflects is being implimented (most likly at 87% so ams+ofab back combo isnt effected) this gives the trader the soldiers effective defensive capabilities, but the trader doesnt have to worry about the reflects being stolen by another trader

possible solutions:change it so its 75-80% reflects so traders are still killable/make it so if the targets (not sold's) reflects are above 65% then the nano can land on BRed traders as well.
godmode needs to be nerfed

[lostlife]

It's not the center of the argument, it is the argument TBH. IN the extreme case, if there is no population of traders, then it's silly to complain about trader debuffs because the occurence of traders doing mean things to you is zero. I think that's the point of the thread ... not many active traders at TL7, even fewer doing TL7 PVP = very low chance to get F'ed over by one, especially in the case where the trader to ANYTHING ELSE ratio is very low. Chances are REALLY good that you aren't their target.

Of course, traders target soldiers whenever they get the chance ... they are supposed to.

it only takes 6 or 7 pvp endgame traders in different time zones to make it so there a trader in BS most of the time.
i dont understand why "just because there are less of them" that they should be immune to judgement

[Venachar]

I have removed a few posts from this thread for trolling. Please watch your manner toward other users and remember the rules of this forum and stronger and stricter than other forums.

Tergx: I removed your post, but it was not for trolling, just that you were addressing a previous post that was being removed

[Armus]

so 1 of the 4 soldiers loses their ams and dies, then the trader dies from the other 1,2,3..

Sorry but soldiers dont have reflect rippers, do they. 100% reflect is 100% reflect at which the end of the trader can easily jump back through the whompa or whatever.

.........if you hang with a group of 3 other soldiers that get "easily owned by other profs" then get some new soldier frandz to pvp with..

Yes because a soldier has such awesum defenses when they can't ams.

Whenever I meet a good soldier on the BS it can be very close (so I have no BR up), and not at all predictable. That means that neither of us is sure of the outcome until after the battle is over and either I am in decon or the soldier is...

Maybe not for you.

In order for all these arguments that traders are OP to work, one has to assume a great many things in a perfect predictable environment. Such does not exist, except in peoples minds for the sake of argument.

I don't really know what you're getting at here. Soldiers wanting to ams to not get isntagibbed as soon as they step through a whompa and then still getting instagibbed because a trader was waiting is an unlikely situation in BS for you?

I assure you it's extremely likely to happen to me at least. Almost 100% risk if there is a good trader. I guess we live in different worlds.

[lostlife]

I assure you it's extremely likely to happen to me at least. Almost 100% risk if there is a good trader. I guess we live in different worlds.

RK1 and RK2 are different dimensions, same planet

[sultryvoltron]

RK1 and RK2 are different dimensions, same planet

Not true, check out 18.3 forum section for info on that.

[Strupstad]

BR: removing the reflects isnt bad, makes a hole in a awsome defense, the fact that a trader is unkillable for 30 secs afterwords is.

Wrong. Bring and NT or an engy and you've got a dead trader with BR runing.

This thread has showed me two things. #1: Tergxj for president! #2: Noobius76 is just that, a noob who has no clue what he's talking about. He knows he has a bad hand, and all he tries to do is whine enough so that funcom will listen to his cries. Not going to happen, but please, do continue to amuse us with all your wittiness Makes for good entertainment if nothing else!