OK, let's talk about new stuff

[Polarbaer]

Rage cooldown; HP lowering; stun perk duration decrease + dmg perk execution time increase = RIP chainind stuns... Nooooo that's not an enforcer pvp nerf, we got 'throw snowball 2.0' as compensation!

It looks I'll be spending much more time on my nt after the changes.

[Harios]

And HARIOS dunno how godly you are man but I noticed the keyword in your survival against 2 endgame pvp'ers is CHASING
"I only die when there are 2 or more endgame pvp'ers chasing my ass."

guess what from that point of view even a greenie might be godly and unfortunately that s our MAIN defense lol. And that combined with alpha takes us far from the bottom list in pvp. Take "speed advantage against rannged professions" away from enfos and they ll drop like a fly most of the time ...

Speed is indeed one of our most important assets but don't underestimate the power of hp, absorbs, AAD/evades and HoT/HD.
Enforcers are more than just an alpha and lots of run speed.
I might have used the wrong word, let's replace it with 'fighting' then?

If you would have read more than the word 'chasing' you would have read that I am very well aware of how important rage is for our toolset.
Ranged professions already have a huge advantage over melee... being able to move and speed is very important for us.

I just don't like how you and others claim that a lockdown on rage will make enforcers drop like flies.
If that is true... I might be very godly afterall, because when I don't run away I certainly don't drop like a fly.
Rage is extremely important for us and nerfing that is something that has to be done with extreme care.
But let's just keep being constructive because funcom won't listen otherwise.
At least that is my experience as former professional.

You should still be able to fight something like this, BEFORE it gets out of the professional/area 51 forum.

Putting a lockout on rage is a game breaker for enforcers, unless when rage is running for the duration we get 100% root/snare immunity. We are the only melee class with no access to spacial displacement or any other way of resisting roots.

Failing that, give enforcers the ability to pull any player to 1m distance, keep them there for 30s, then punt them 80m away if they arent dead. Ahhh hell, with reps like this it feels like it's just better to give up on the class after almost 9 years.

You are in no position to tell Obtena what to do and you know it.

[Etyris]

You should still be able to fight something like this, BEFORE it gets out of the professional/area 51 forum.

Putting a lockout on rage is a game breaker for enforcers, unless when rage is running for the duration we get 100% root/snare immunity. We are the only melee class with no access to spacial displacement or any other way of resisting roots.

Failing that, give enforcers the ability to pull any player to 1m distance, keep them there for 30s, then punt them 80m away if they arent dead. Ahhh hell, with reps like this it feels like it's just better to give up on the class after almost 9 years.

That was way uncalled for, until we know what the local cooldown on roots will be this is only conjecture. =/

This is in no way Obtena's fault. FC gave us only a piece of the puzzle, and without the rest no informed position can be formed.

[Moonbolt]

well if rage lockout is longer then duration of rage we are sitting ducks
either we will get very vulnerable to Nano attacks like drains, NSD, UBT and what ever else nano u can think of or very vulnerable to roots.
if u know the profession u know this.

if the lockout on rage is less then duration of rage.. sure i can live with it.
it still makes us somewhat more vulnerable to roots then we are today.
but atleast we have the opportunity to resist the root with our high NR.

but i.ex having a 1 min lockout on a 39 sec duration would totaly be failsauce.
that would more or less kill the enforcer profession, if not completly it would atleast kill the pvp enfs.

but i dunno.. maybe FC got tired of having enfs in this game.. they are giving keepers taunting nanos/perks, and soldiers increased taunting skills.
enf = obsolete.

[Obtena]

You should still be able to fight something like this, BEFORE it gets out of the professional/area 51 forum.

I'm surprised a former professional like yourself thinks this approach actually works. Dissappointed is the word I'm looking for atm. I was actually hoping for a more constructive and assistive approach from you based on your experience in and passion for the game. Rage cooldown ... As it stands today, is happening. You're either going to help us make a case to minimize the damage or you aren't. If you have ideas that might gain access to the things we will miss by the cooldown on rage, go ahead and post them in the new wishlist.

[Moonbolt]

just state the simple fact that while most of the other classes gets new and exciting stuff enforcers gets slapped in the face.

More classes gaining tank abilities, or improved tank abilities.
Most classes from what ive seen actually getting a boost at most lvl ranges for PvP and PvM.
and enfs getting a futile boost in the lvls 180-210 with new taunts wich realy isnt a problem if 180 enfs didnt try to tank over 220 players and a real nerf in PvP.

the only prof i wasnt able to find the changes for was adv.

NTs Keepers MAs Agents changes looks totally awesome.
the rest of the changes looks OK.
and enf gets a nerf.


i bet the nerfs are to handle TL 1,2,3,4,5 uberness for PvP enfs but they are goin at it the wrong way.
the reason that those TLs are so scewed is cause of that it has become easier and easier to equip endgame gear ment for 200+ chars.
SoW is an abomination at TL 5 for example.
both in the hands of an adv and an Enf.
but that has more to do that its become possible to equip higher and higher wepons for some classes where most of the profs that are not depending on a good alpha to kill someone is stuck w/o any fancy wepon upgrades.
its the same problem as it is to be able to cast nanite drains at lvl 90.
my TL 5 trader drained another TL 5 twink down to 300 AR with drains + procs + corporate protection and with 1300ish evades and i dunno how much aad its a certain win.

[lostlife]

nt damage will be spectrum so absorbs will be much better
perk damage was nerfed across the board
aimshot was nerfed across the board (every one but agent has def heck and 3 sec cast, agent one will not do much more damage then burst)
were getting parry to, this is something i would like to be added to enfos toolset might compinsate for loss of hp if done right

if FC plays there cards right, this might end up in our favor, with excpetion of making roots/snares aren't completly useless against enfos

what i would really like to see is hot on mongo improved, seeing as it is of little value in pvp unless combined with absorbs, and even them it leaves somethign to be desired

agents: FP perks
advy: no info yet (according to old news large changes to morphs)
crat: monster essence
doc: healing cybor deck/new nukes
engi: new pets, pet cybordeck
fix: possibly more % based hots/new and better summons
keeper: reverse knockback, fury alterations, new auras
MA: new attacks, new MC nanos
MP: damage to pet thing, new emergency nano
NT: nano weaving
Shade: new vamp procs
Sold: new perkline
trader: pet line that doesnt suck/merging of drain lines

whats cool and new then enfos are getting? every one (with possible exception of fix and trader) have word on a relativley new addition to there toolset.

[Moonbolt]

Lostlife u should read thru the perk changes and the suggested changes in the other forums.
the dmg of perklines was not reduced all over the board.
some got reduced, some got increased, some stayed the same but all of the attack perks got a 2 sec cast.

AS was nerfed all over the board yes.. wonder why?
might have had something to do with FC never intended something to be so powerfull it was considered a nessessity for 80% of the classes in AO.

i still havnt seen any nerf suggested nerf to FA or SA.

Parry and Riposte might be... somewhat nice to mitigate a little dmg. we will have to see when they are complete.
the classes that are gonna benefit most of parry and ripost is MA and keeper as far as i understood it tho.

and seriusly?
that NTs are gonna use different nukes against an enf? no smart NT will use different dmg types against an enf with absorb up. didnt even think i would have to type this cause i thought it was so obvious.
much like the good NTs doesnt use doubles on an enf since IU is so much more dmg on us.

[lostlife]

nts will get sizable bonus for nano weaving that arent nesesarily damage

2 sec durations on attacks will reduces normal amount of attacks, so damage is over all lowered my a minor amount

[Kinkstaah]

I'm surprised a former professional like yourself thinks this approach actually works. Dissappointed is the word I'm looking for atm. I was actually hoping for a more constructive and assistive approach from you based on your experience in and passion for the game. Rage cooldown ... As it stands today, is happening. You're either going to help us make a case to minimize the damage or you aren't. If you have ideas that might gain access to the things we will miss by the cooldown on rage, go ahead and post them in the new wishlist.

I stand by what I said, I don't *blame* Obtena or Arrien for this, I doubt it was their suggestion, and its probably been there in FC's minds for months (years?), where it came from is unknown.

It wouldnt happen if two professionals spontaneously /quit and the enforcer profession refused to be represented until it was changed. I've said what needs to be changed in all of my posts, and if you have noticed it has been echoed by almost every enforcer that knows how to play the game. I don't doubt for a second that my posts, and the ones posted by others (in the other thread) will be used as examples of the enforcer community's opinion on how good an idea this is.

There's nothing constructive when a class is being raped on all fronts, especially in the areas that make the class competitive in its current state. competitive being the key word here.

We exist due to

1) alpha.
2) Speed.

Thats it. Both are being nerfed. We're OK as it is. We're very nearly NOT ok as it is, too. Adjusting either of these would be dire.

As for my conduct as an ex-professional, I find it highly amusing that when I was an Enf Professional (pre-SL) we received the kind of defence at the time I was looking for through perks, and massive HP (which was the problem, back then).

I also smile a little that a lot of my suggestions when I was agent professional are now (only now?) Coming to fruition. (perks for mimic, modifiers for it, "local cooldowns") If you want, do a search on the professionals forums (and/or area 51) and you can find them.

[McKnuckleSamwich]

Sounds like some pretty well needed changes

1. the mongo change is great, there are a few stages where a slightly higher/better mongo could be well recieved, like: level 80-110 ish, and level 150ish-215. If there are any improvments to the nano like an extra tick or two of health, this would be pretty awesome, but, I wouldn't expect too much.

2. thank gawd the HP on those big ess's are goign down. I've heard so many enfs complaining that End game raids are just mongo spam follow for so many raids, that this may actually make it a BIT of a challenge again.

I saw someone complaining that lowering the HP of the big ess will make it so non-220 enfs won't be able to tank end game raids. To that I say good! If a 217 half ass enf can tank an endgame raid the enfs toolset is way too powerful for pvm. It's about damn time. And thank god for duels too. With an MA main, taking down a enf with 60k HP is like pissing on a forest fire to save the town.

3. The rage lock out is fine. Everything is getting lock outs. But, it's especially needed because enfs are far overpowered in almost every TL range, why? mostly because rage adds way more NR than any other buff availalbe in game at lower TL's


In general, I think all of these changes will produce a more balanced toolset, with reasonable amounts of vulnerabilities while maintaining strong ability to perform basic function.

GJ devs.

[Moonbolt]

Mcnuckle.. i actually thought u had an enf from previous posts... atleast ive seen u trolling around here alot.

[lostlife]

this comment is dirrectly connected to the rage issue

if we had no cool out, and other profs snares/roots did, that would just plain be to powerful
if there were no cool downs, CC tools would be nothing but spam-fest and people who have less anti-CC ability will be just as screwed as they are now (shade for example), which is bad
if both have cool downs, peoplewho have little anti-CC in there toolset will gain a benifit, while enfos are not made over powered in getting rid of roots/snares

[Calamite]

We will not nerf enforcer health that much. The main target for this nerf is Mongo's Ultra Improved Behemoth. It will be lowered, this will mainly affect PVM and duels. On the other hand it is likely that we will lower the level requirement on the other SL essence nano programs.

The rage cooldown will be balanced with the new root/snare durations for pvp so the lockout will not be longer than 8-15 seconds.

Oh, I'm ok with nerfing DB ess. An endgame enf can tank any encounter without it, lowbies could use an hp boost from it though.

[McKnuckleSamwich]

Mcnuckle.. i actually thought u had an enf from previous posts... atleast ive seen u trolling around here alot.

I have a 150 enf who's fully twinked for S10, but I'm capped on AXP so I'm going to level him for 165 PVP in the near future.

[info]

Speed is indeed one of our most important assets but don't underestimate the power of hp, absorbs, AAD/evades and HoT/HD.
Enforcers are more than just an alpha and lots of run speed.
I might have used the wrong word, let's replace it with 'fighting' then?

If you would have read more than the word 'chasing' you would have read that I am very well aware of how important rage is for our toolset.
Ranged professions already have a huge advantage over melee... being able to move and speed is very important for us.

I just don't like how you and others claim that a lockdown on rage will make enforcers drop like flies.
If that is true... I might be very godly afterall, because when I don't run away I certainly don't drop like a fly.
Rage is extremely important for us and nerfing that is something that has to be done with extreme care.
But let's just keep being constructive because funcom won't listen otherwise.
At least that is my experience as former professional.

You are in no position to tell Obtena what to do and you know it.

No ofence Harios but arent you the one who rolled an Engy "after seeing what FC made to enforcers?". I might remember WRONG so I m just asking for now!

Even now everyone knows Engy are VERY powerfull and yet look at FC ... IMPROVED PETS???????? cmooonnn

Even as of NOW it totally sucks for me to go to WARS .... I d like to but guess what I m mellee... thus very limited. I need darn mobility ....

Even the HEAL NERF might be a NERF for enfo in mass PVP and RAGE BREAKS ROOTS for a REASON even today ...

Even as of today they just need to root enfo when he uses Challenger and there you go ... you have the cool down allready in game

[Mijjet]

I saw a post in here that said rage lockout was to be 15-20 seconds... that's fine imo... doesn't nerf pvm much and makes pvp a bit more balanced, especially at low levels.

I agree with the poster a few above me that says that a "half assed 217 enf" should not be able to tank end game raids easily. If they can then our toolset is overpowered. If an HP nerf is what it takes then cool, lets deal with it and drive on.

I'm worried about 2 things, I don't want to see a loss of the enforcer's role as a tank. I am a tank, I will always be a tank. I don't dd much (usually just barely at the 50% mark in raids, above the lowbies and below the real dders) and as a secondary healer, or a crowd controller, or a debuff totem I am useless.
1- Keepers should NOT be getting taunts, and Soldier's taunts don't need to get any better. Their abilitiy to DD is their taunt and unless I mongo or single taunt a mob off of them they can keep aggro with it and their taunts.
2-I'm kinda upset that enf's don't seem to be getting any love in this "update" that seems to be more of a downgrade. We need some love, help us stay tanks and by all means nerf us in PVP- especially at lower levels. Nerf our DD, that's not our purpose (referring to the cast time on perks now). We need some damage mitigation. I dislike that Soldiers are better tanks than 50% of enfos (in single mob instances S10, DB1/2, etc) because their damage mitigation is better- I don't want ours to be a 90% reflect shield (SO LAME) but some small amount of damage reduction to make us viable as tanks in all situations. I want a good (not huge or unfair) amount of survival capability that lasts through the whole fight. On that note I have a couple suggestions:
--------Buff our ACs by a significant amount- wouldn't it be neat if enforcers were the tanks in this game? a nano program that buffs our ACs by 10k for a few minutes would be neat, yea we'd have to recast it, but face it, we're a casting prof and what's another nano really? (I realize that min damage is already achieved... but come on... our ACs should count for something- I also know this would take a change to the game mechanics...)
---------Give us a self only absorb aura, something that puts up a 500 absorb shield every 20 seconds... that's not OP in pvp (but in pvm, especially in SL where damage types change it would be just another way to mitigate our damage a bit)... and, make the shield that the aura puts up be overwritten by our absorbs so that once we've used it up we can continue spamming our absorbs in an attempt to survive.
----------Here's another one, how about a way to turn our nano into HP? Say we cast a nano and for 15 seconds damage eats our nanopool instead of our HP bar. An enfo without nano is in a tough spot, but its a way to boost our survival... and I'm not asking for handouts or an I win button.

These are just some ideas... obviously they all need work but I think we're losing the PVM enfo and I don't want that to happen. Lets do something constructive and shoot some more ideas up to FC. Ways to keep us the tanks, and give us a real role in the future of the game. I have the taunts to keep aggro (at all TLs after the "balancing") give me the means to survive that aggro as well as a tank should... Don't replace me...

***Disclaimer: I've been 220 for 2 years now and I know my profession, I'm not a god (read: Herkulease) but I am well equipped - I know that many of you will not agree with my post, but please realize I'm just posting my opinion, don't make this a flame war, give your alternatives instead.

/Mijjetenfo

[Biancha]

If a 217 half ass enf can tank an endgame raid the enfs toolset is way too powerful for pvm.

maybe mobs aren't tough enough. maybe other classes have way too many debuffs. maybe that 217 enforcer was surrounded by an excellent raidforce.

just some thoughts.

[Thwarn]

but i dunno.. maybe FC got tired of having enfs in this game.. they are giving keepers taunting nanos/perks, and soldiers increased taunting skills.
enf = obsolete.

Sorry to take so long to respond to this. Were are you getting any of this for Sold or Keepers.
There is nothing listed for either prof that increases their taunting.

There is talk of keepers getting an effect that can allow tehm to effect taunts for the TEAM. My impresion is that it would probably boost are taunting.

Soldiers, again nothing mentioned of new taunts.

jeez stop thowing out false statements.

Im still pissed that FC hands a golden platter with nice new goodies, but slaps us in the face with across the board nerfs.
My wife is juming up and down with joy over the changes for MAs, and cant wonder why im cussing up a storm.

[lostlife]

I saw a post in here that said rage lockout was to be 15-20 seconds... that's fine imo... doesn't nerf pvm much and makes pvp a bit more balanced, especially at low levels.

I agree with the poster a few above me that says that a "half assed 217 enf" should not be able to tank end game raids easily. If they can then our toolset is overpowered. If an HP nerf is what it takes then cool, lets deal with it and drive on.

I'm worried about 2 things, I don't want to see a loss of the enforcer's role as a tank. I am a tank, I will always be a tank. I don't dd much (usually just barely at the 50% mark in raids, above the lowbies and below the real dders) and as a secondary healer, or a crowd controller, or a debuff totem I am useless.
1- Keepers should NOT be getting taunts, and Soldier's taunts don't need to get any better. Their abilitiy to DD is their taunt and unless I mongo or single taunt a mob off of them they can keep aggro with it and their taunts.
2-I'm kinda upset that enf's don't seem to be getting any love in this "update" that seems to be more of a downgrade. We need some love, help us stay tanks and by all means nerf us in PVP- especially at lower levels. Nerf our DD, that's not our purpose (referring to the cast time on perks now). We need some damage mitigation. I dislike that Soldiers are better tanks than 50% of enfos (in single mob instances S10, DB1/2, etc) because their damage mitigation is better- I don't want ours to be a 90% reflect shield (SO LAME) but some small amount of damage reduction to make us viable as tanks in all situations. I want a good (not huge or unfair) amount of survival capability that lasts through the whole fight. On that note I have a couple suggestions:
--------Buff our ACs by a significant amount- wouldn't it be neat if enforcers were the tanks in this game? a nano program that buffs our ACs by 10k for a few minutes would be neat, yea we'd have to recast it, but face it, we're a casting prof and what's another nano really? (I realize that min damage is already achieved... but come on... our ACs should count for something- I also know this would take a change to the game mechanics...)
---------Give us a self only absorb aura, something that puts up a 500 absorb shield every 20 seconds... that's not OP in pvp (but in pvm, especially in SL where damage types change it would be just another way to mitigate our damage a bit)... and, make the shield that the aura puts up be overwritten by our absorbs so that once we've used it up we can continue spamming our absorbs in an attempt to survive.
----------Here's another one, how about a way to turn our nano into HP? Say we cast a nano and for 15 seconds damage eats our nanopool instead of our HP bar. An enfo without nano is in a tough spot, but its a way to boost our survival... and I'm not asking for handouts or an I win button.

These are just some ideas... obviously they all need work but I think we're losing the PVM enfo and I don't want that to happen. Lets do something constructive and shoot some more ideas up to FC. Ways to keep us the tanks, and give us a real role in the future of the game. I have the taunts to keep aggro (at all TLs after the "balancing") give me the means to survive that aggro as well as a tank should... Don't replace me...

***Disclaimer: I've been 220 for 2 years now and I know my profession, I'm not a god (read: Herkulease) but I am well equipped - I know that many of you will not agree with my post, but please realize I'm just posting my opinion, don't make this a flame war, give your alternatives instead.

/Mijjetenfo

ACs, good idea, but that combined with troll form might be a bit to powerfull and make afk beast tanking happen, tanking should be difficuly, but not so hard you would kiss your sister for a 3rd doc

absorb aura: we can cast absorbs pretty fast with right set-up+rage, aura would benifit in that we have 1 less nano to cast constently

nano to health: i dont like the idea, because it would we a "aw hell" button, and we dont really need many more of those

there are 2 things i would like to see that increase survivability, one moreso for solo, the other for what ever
mongo hot improved: were losing a chunk of hp, we need something to compensate
parry: would be a ok way of migrating damage, depending on if we have IP or not to max it