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Thread: OK, let's talk about new stuff

  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Genele View Post
    We will not nerf enforcer health that much. The main target for this nerf is Mongo's Ultra Improved Behemoth. It will be lowered, this will mainly affect PVM and duels. On the other hand it is likely that we will lower the level requirement on the other SL essence nano programs.

    The rage cooldown will be balanced with the new root/snare durations for pvp so the lockout will not be longer than 8-15 seconds.
    Thanks for clarifying Genele.

    Am still nervous but my blood pressure is coming down
    Sawbones2 220/22 NM Doc, General of Pantheon
    Rootntootm 220/25 Soli Crat
    Rockmsockm 212/19 Trox Enfo
    Swaptioneer 175/13 Opi Tradah
    Sliderule 134/11 Soli Engie

  2. #22
    I think the overarching problem with nerfing enforcer HP is that we don't have good enough damage mitigation. Combine this with a possible reduction in doctor healing and enforcer tanks are going to take a big hit. We take a lot of damage, and we need to heal/be healed a lot to be viable. If we lose HP, we should gain mitigation. Even crats out mitigate us. Crats. Does that make sense to you Genele? Is that a good game mechanic?

    We have NR, but our evades and reflects are too low, and ACs are lol. I dont want us to go back to the days when MA/Shade tanks completely outclassed enforcers in single mob encounters. We lost a lot of TL7 population during those days, and they never came back.
    Last edited by Etyris; Jan 7th, 2010 at 16:21:05.

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Genele View Post
    The rage cooldown will be balanced with the new root/snare durations for pvp so the lockout will not be longer than 8-15 seconds.
    And remove the runspeed buff as well! Means said it, I swear! You were there! Do the right thing
    Kintaii: Genele is more hardcore than you, your guildmates, and anyone else you've ever played with...

    My pvp stats: Duel wins: 945 / losses: 368 - Solo kills: 5632 / team: 7511

    My org mate: Solo kills: 24 933 / Team: 683

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Strupstad View Post
    And remove the runspeed buff as well! Means said it, I swear! You were there! Do the right thing
    yes that was what I asked for in my earlier post. But no SL snare will OP SL ess in pvp

    What I suggest is make 2 lines of rage:

    1) classic rootbreaker: The proposed changed version with cooldown/better debuff removal: This will be the BALANCED PVP rage nano

    2) a NEW RAGE line: No root/snare breaking, BUT WITHOUT COOLDOWN. same nanoskill requirements, costs etc. Same or better +inits, runspeed, maybe toned down slightly on NR. Maybe remove the DoT so its even useful at lower levels in SL: This will be the PVM rage.

    Make it same nanoline so it doesnt stack or else we get overkill on runspeed and inits
    main: level 220/30/70 enf [ROXTON]
    alts: level 150 sec10 enf
    + a few gimp enfs

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Kinkstaah View Post
    So the concept is: "We'll make enfos the nerfest prof"

    All of the things mentioned are nerfs.
    None of which, need to be adjusted in any way currently? Every other class has some new tidbit, exciting new directions, yet enforcers are 100% down?

    Clearly there is more on the table that can be seen for now, but lol, that has to be the worst "incoming news!" that any profession has received thus far, and realistically enforcers, while not gimp, certainly wouldnt the the first in line for a direct nerf on every single front that they have.
    If you look at endgame pvp enfs, these changes will most likely effect us in a negative way.
    But look at the endgame enforcers pvping at this moment, they dominate many pvp situations.
    I only die when there are 2 or more endgame pvp'ers chasing my ass.
    We are one of the fastest professions with a lot of absorbs/health to protect us.

    The thing bothering me though is the cooldown on the rage nano.
    This is the key regarding nano protection and being able to counter/remove roots.
    So the rage nanoline should be handled with care... I stopped playing my shade because a root was enough to exclude me from battle.
    Funcom has to be very very aware of the fact that melee has an extra challenge in pvp.
    We have to play our character WHILE we chase our targets that jump and run in many directions.
    This will get MUCH harder when we don't have the tools to remove a root.
    8-15 Seconds is a LONG time in pvp.... when people rootgraft me.. I rage and they use the other rootgraft or a root nano, Im useless for 8-15 seconds!
    I guess the cooldown is needed to make roots more usefull.. but please consider 5s instead of 8-15.. thats WAY WAY too long.
    Last edited by Harios; Jan 7th, 2010 at 18:33:16.
    Harios - [Enforcer] cookies 220/30
    Advass - [Adventurer] nerf 220/21
    Wackios - [Shade] gankzsz 220/16
    Soldios - [Soldier] FA Burst 220/22
    Docios - [Doctor] healsplxz 220/20
    Cratios - [Bureaucrat] tape 220/19
    Proud Board Member of Dark Front Cookies >> Bacon, remember that!

  6. #26
    nerfing rage is killing the enforcer profession totally.
    its the ONLY properly working defence an enf has.

    HP .. yeah sure getting hit harder then any other class by AS/FA/nukes/perks ...

    Biocoon - sorry but since the nerf and the increase of every professions dmg .. its just a silly defence and i would unperk this line if we had any other viable defences.

    ACs.. lol..

    Mongo and HP delta. sure ... they work .. as long as we can keep spaming absorbs. wich we wont with a rage lockout.

    specialized burden already makes it impossible for an enf to win a duel against a NT.

    id say those changes are complete bull**** and im glad ive decided to eventually get anotehr toon up to 220 for pvp.
    Moonbolt - 220/26/something. Trox Enf RK1 General of Hells Heroes.
    Renswind - 220/21/67 solitus trader.
    Moonkiss - 219/21/something opifex shade.
    Mooncloud - 150/18/somethin solitus MA.

  7. #27
    so from what i see

    mongo: scaling could be good or bad, probobly wont be hp boost, because were heading away from that, so that leaves taunt and HOT new nanos in the line is always good

    rage: we will be able to have it running as much as before, but it will come with a cool down that is equal other profs root/snare cooldowns, so we are a bit more susptable to them, but if prof in question doesn't have access to rootgraft atm, we can get up close and personal for the duration of their timer instead of having to rage every half a sec. i see this as a relativly small nerf, the biggest issue will be if there is more then 1 root/snare prof on the enfos ass

    taunt: no new info, but probobly good

    less HP: will most likely be taken from mongo ess, as i dont have a 220, im curious as to how much use it is currently in pvp, as for pvm, knowing how MUCH is a very important issue, will it be 5k? or will it be closer to 20k?

  8. #28
    after checking thru the other professions suggested changes i dunno what to say..
    enforcers is gonna be at the very bottom of the food chain.
    by far.

    agent looks like they actually getting a quite big boost with new FP perk actions etc.

    Docs will get the option to choose to go heal, nuke, DoT

    keepers will get insta cast auras and good taunts (aperantly enfs are getting replaced as the tanks in AO) aswell as extended perk lines

    MAs is getting separate cooldown on their heals and a general boost to the profession

    Shades are getting better health drains and better AR and "need for MR removed"

    MPs getting pets tweaked

    engies getting pets tweaked

    crats getting pets tweaked and the option to capture mobs essences so they can summon tehm as pets everywhere instead of the old charms.

    fixers get to kite even more then before due to increase in the hard cap of runspeed while lowering other classes runspeed.

    adv i havnt been able to find the suggested changes but i ddint look to close

    and the changes to NTs is friggen hughe.. they gonna get more "dynamic" casting like calms and nukes etc not sharing CD anylonger so they can nuke and calm at the same time.. and also their nukes gonna enable specials on other nukes etc.

    and enfs gettign slapped with a hughe nerf.

    most of the stuff posted as suggestions isnt realy any changes for pvp in general more changes of the profs themselfs.
    sure i think its awesome changes in most cases.

    looking at the sugested NT changes makes me go wow thats awesome. would make the game alot more situational etc.

    looking at the changes for MPs and engies where they will have options to choose pets regarding situation like a init debuffing pet instead of mezz pet etc is realy kool aswell.
    not to speak of the crat capturing essense of mobs to spawn them ..

    i dont get how our professionals havnt screamed in outrage at those changes for enfs.
    Moonbolt - 220/26/something. Trox Enf RK1 General of Hells Heroes.
    Renswind - 220/21/67 solitus trader.
    Moonkiss - 219/21/something opifex shade.
    Mooncloud - 150/18/somethin solitus MA.

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Moonbolt View Post
    after checking thru the other professions suggested changes i dunno what to say..
    enforcers is gonna be at the very bottom of the food chain.
    by far.
    It totally sux that enforcers are a profession that doesn't get new stuff.
    The rage cooldown is also a slap in our face...

    But let's agree that enforcers are far from the bottom of the food chain.

    I know it is scary to see nerfs coming your way but let's hope funcom knows what they are doing.
    We also have 2 new professionals sending their feedback to funcom, so have some faith.

    In the end.. all we can do is give constructive feedback and tell them why for example rage cooldown needs to be handled with care.
    Harios - [Enforcer] cookies 220/30
    Advass - [Adventurer] nerf 220/21
    Wackios - [Shade] gankzsz 220/16
    Soldios - [Soldier] FA Burst 220/22
    Docios - [Doctor] healsplxz 220/20
    Cratios - [Bureaucrat] tape 220/19
    Proud Board Member of Dark Front Cookies >> Bacon, remember that!

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Moonbolt View Post
    i dont get how our professionals havnt screamed in outrage at those changes for enfs.
    That's the point of getting the player feedback no? I'm not a prof to push my own objections, we need you guys to help build the case too. What's more valuable? Arrien and I complaining or a thread of the whole enfo population doing it? TBH, I'm not surprised by the reaction. My initial reaction was "Oh, I hope there is more coming" and I still hope there is because these changes aren't very appealing, especially for the endgame enfo.
    Awwww muffin, need a tissue?

  11. #31
    Also screaming in outrage normally isn't a constructive way of giving feedback
    Harios - [Enforcer] cookies 220/30
    Advass - [Adventurer] nerf 220/21
    Wackios - [Shade] gankzsz 220/16
    Soldios - [Soldier] FA Burst 220/22
    Docios - [Doctor] healsplxz 220/20
    Cratios - [Bureaucrat] tape 220/19
    Proud Board Member of Dark Front Cookies >> Bacon, remember that!

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Moonbolt View Post
    nerfing rage is killing the enforcer profession totally.
    its the ONLY properly working defence an enf has.

    HP .. yeah sure getting hit harder then any other class by AS/FA/nukes/perks ...

    Biocoon - sorry but since the nerf and the increase of every professions dmg .. its just a silly defence and i would unperk this line if we had any other viable defences.

    ACs.. lol..

    Mongo and HP delta. sure ... they work .. as long as we can keep spaming absorbs. wich we wont with a rage lockout.

    specialized burden already makes it impossible for an enf to win a duel against a NT.

    id say those changes are complete bull**** and im glad ive decided to eventually get anotehr toon up to 220 for pvp.
    There are so little details put into the post by Obtena that it's hard to tell what's actually happening.

    Here's a list of questions that should be answered imo:

    Are enfs getting a way to soak up damage better in PvP? Currently they are hit the hardest by capping specials, which will obviously continue with no big changes.

    Will the SL essences keep the RS debuffs in light of the rage nerf? They shouldn't. Or they should be lowered drastically.

    Will enfs be able to take advantage of the "local cooldown casting"?

    As for the crying about debuffs and kiting, it's pointless. That is clearly taking everything completely out of context and being mad because you have to change how you play your Enforcer in PvP. All roots will be a shorter duration, and you will still be able to break them with rage. All debuffs will have shorter durations. The RS hardcap will apparently be increased while lowering other professions RS. Enfs will still have the RS boost from rage that can be used to chase down kiters for the duration since the person kiting will be moving even slower with the RS nerf.

    The HP thing is just a bad step imo because it looks like an attempt to balance out the 30% cap mechanic.
    The Fine Arts:
    Mime | Surgery | Zen
    The Traitor


    Xirayne: I couldn't care less about who is clueless or what the exact definition "real" pvp is in ao, I want "fun" pvp!

  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Obtena View Post
    That's the point of getting the player feedback no? I'm not a prof to push my own objections, we need you guys to help build the case too. What's more valuable? Arrien and I complaining or a thread of the whole enfo population doing it? TBH, I'm not surprised by the reaction. My initial reaction was "Oh, I hope there is more coming" and I still hope there is because these changes aren't very appealing, especially for the endgame enfo.
    yeah im sorry about that comment obtena, but seriusly .. ever other profession is getting yummy stuff basically.. except enfs that gets slapped with a nerfbat the size of a minor building.
    Moonbolt - 220/26/something. Trox Enf RK1 General of Hells Heroes.
    Renswind - 220/21/67 solitus trader.
    Moonkiss - 219/21/something opifex shade.
    Mooncloud - 150/18/somethin solitus MA.

  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by SultryVoltron View Post
    As for the crying about debuffs and kiting, it's pointless. That is clearly taking everything completely out of context and being mad because you have to change how you play your Enforcer in PvP. All roots will be a shorter duration, and you will still be able to break them with rage. All debuffs will have shorter durations. The RS hardcap will apparently be increased while lowering other professions RS. Enfs will still have the RS boost from rage that can be used to chase down kiters for the duration since the person kiting will be moving even slower with the RS nerf.

    The HP thing is just a bad step imo because it looks like an attempt to balance out the 30% cap mechanic.
    sultry getting that RS boost will require us to use the rage in wich case the fixer can just root us afterwards.
    so no the kiting ability isnt taken out of context.
    Moonbolt - 220/26/something. Trox Enf RK1 General of Hells Heroes.
    Renswind - 220/21/67 solitus trader.
    Moonkiss - 219/21/something opifex shade.
    Mooncloud - 150/18/somethin solitus MA.

  15. #35
    Dunno but this looks to me like a slap in our face ...

    Our "power" is ALPHA / Run speed (pls I don't wanna hear about the HP def crap anymore I m fed up with that specially cause balance is not for 1 vs 1 pvp right ???????)

    If your ALPHA is down ... you ll hardly scratch professions with your regular dmg while most of them will chew your HP like there s no tomorrow. What's sad is that there are professions that have real defense all the time unless you disable it. (atm heals = defense up all the time unless you disable it) IMO all professions should have like at least a decent period of time where they ll have no defenses left like enfos.


    With the rage nerf all it takes for ranged profs is to ruin your alpha and you can say bye bye enfo in most situations.

    I don t mind a HP nerf as long as darn specials are nerfed I'm tired of insta-splashing to some 2 pvp ranged toons (talking BS here) or every other greenie testing his AS on my arse with big success lol.


    And HARIOS dunno how godly you are man but I noticed the keyword in your survival against 2 endgame pvp'ers is CHASING
    "I only die when there are 2 or more endgame pvp'ers chasing my ass."

    guess what from that point of view even a greenie might be godly and unfortunately that s our MAIN defense lol. And that combined with alpha takes us far from the bottom list in pvp. Take "speed advantage against rannged professions" away from enfos and they ll drop like a fly most of the time ...


    I m guessing the nerf in speed is comming cause many lamers with REAL defense are complainig about us running away (to be noted here many "poor" soldiers)


    All in all I don t care about the changes ... I wanna see SOME darn balance that s all ... and only then FC will see money from me again . Tired of eating 9k FA while I m doing 100+ dmg with the sold asking me why do I run ?

  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Genele View Post
    We will not nerf enforcer health that much. The main target for this nerf is Mongo's Ultra Improved Behemoth.
    Tbh i dont see how ur gonna nerf it without making it useless, i mean if you toned it down to like 10k i personally would never use it coz 8k hp in relation to our overall hp is just not worth the RS debuff and on the other hand if u nerfed it to 20k the 9k loss again in relation to our overall hp makes no real difference in pvm.

    PS! still not happy about rage, the cooldown would be ok if roots had a lockout on target not caster but if not it would still completely immobilize us in mass pvp. We are useless enough in blob wars as it is so how does turning enfs (which is a melee prof btw) into a stationary post spell balance?

  17. #37
    wow i realy gotta learn to stop pressing esc instead of backspace.

    most good enfs in a pvp situation uses the tactic ... run in alpha then run away.
    rage has enabled us to do that and has made the profession not only a working class but also actually 1 of the classes in the upper half of the pvp status.
    but seriusly?
    running away is our main defence. and now that will get nerfed.
    FC plz give us a working defence instead.
    Moonbolt - 220/26/something. Trox Enf RK1 General of Hells Heroes.
    Renswind - 220/21/67 solitus trader.
    Moonkiss - 219/21/something opifex shade.
    Mooncloud - 150/18/somethin solitus MA.

  18. #38
    A redcution in HPs wouldnt bother me much if it comes with changes/additions in other areas.
    Namely more ways of getting AAD and getting rid of the mechanic of more HP=Equal more dmg taken.
    If the HP nerf is mainly in the SL Ess line, I think they need to lower the snare(since we'll have lower RS).
    Overall there are enough items ingame that can boost our HPs if thats the route you want to go.
    Big "T"
    President of Nocturnal Fear

  19. #39

    Thumbs down oO

    /me Looks around nervously...

    - Mongo improvement : who cares ? it only helps when pvm soloing and it will apparently only affect lower lvls and not tl7... In a high level raid, only doc heals save a tank's life

    - Rage : Now any rooting prof will just root me and kill from range like a Hired Thug from RK mish ??

    - Taunts : who can take agg off IMongo and IEM properly used in a raid ?? Gz to the lvling enfos who wont have to spam mongo/nano stims

    - HP : isnt the -2.5k RS enough nerfing ?
    Is this pvm nerf on behalf of pvp balancing ? What kind of pvp are we talking about then, in BS we cant use it, during duels we are either kitable by ranged or stunnable by melees, mass pvp then ? I thought the method killdoc/enfo dies had worked pretty well so far...

    I didnt know "ReBalancing" meant : make everybody lame so nobody complains...
    Even if this nerf is compensated by other prof's nerf it still doesnt make any sense to me !


    How long do i have to wait till i know what to reroll ???

  20. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by Obtena View Post
    That's the point of getting the player feedback no? I'm not a prof to push my own objections, we need you guys to help build the case too. What's more valuable? Arrien and I complaining or a thread of the whole enfo population doing it? TBH, I'm not surprised by the reaction. My initial reaction was "Oh, I hope there is more coming" and I still hope there is because these changes aren't very appealing, especially for the endgame enfo.
    You should still be able to fight something like this, BEFORE it gets out of the professional/area 51 forum.

    Putting a lockout on rage is a game breaker for enforcers, unless when rage is running for the duration we get 100% root/snare immunity. We are the only melee class with no access to spacial displacement or any other way of resisting roots.

    Failing that, give enforcers the ability to pull any player to 1m distance, keep them there for 30s, then punt them 80m away if they arent dead. Ahhh hell, with reps like this it feels like it's just better to give up on the class after almost 9 years.
    Don't be lonely anymore.

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