An Agent's future..

[mawu]

This has got to be the paint most unwilling to dry ever

[Lupusceleri]

This has got to be the paint most unwilling to dry ever

Yeah lol. I bet funcom has the paint drying video on loop.

[Tlatoani]

So hai,

We finally got the much anticipated green light from Kintaii to share our Sekrit Information with you. Of course, it's all still preliminary, things may and probably will change and need fine tuning before it's released, you know the drill.

First off I want to give a global look at some known changes, before going into detail about ... our Mimics! I personally don't like every change, probably neither will you, but the overall outcome is great for the profession.

• Aimed Shot: Agents exclusively will get access to a secondary Aimed Shot special, sort of like Backstab. Name will probably be Snipe Shot, and it won't deal more damage than a Burst. I have no other details yet, it's a work in progress.
• Ruse of Taren: size reduction and Concealment buff will be separated, and size reduction can be cancelled at will (about 1 NCU for the -size).
• Detaunts: revampage, apparently for all levelling ranges. No details.
• Bailing nanos: they're getting a revamp, again not much details.. especially durations will be changed.
• Damage over Time: they will be "fixed", but noone has a clue how that's going to work out.
• Snares/roots/stuns: shorter duration, faster casting, and they'll finally work in the Shadowlands.

I know that list isn't very impressive, however with that out of the way, let's have a look at The Big Revelation (tm) we've been teasing you all about!

The Agent rebalance thingie will have a heavy focus on our Mimic lines. Biggest change, really, would be that we're finally getting to Mimic a form of perks. A form of, because they technically aren't perks, but specializations. The plan is to enable us to Mimic every profession effectively, including Shades and Keepers.

• Shadow Profession: aside from the existing False, Assume, and Mimic Profession lines there will be Shadow Profession for endgame Agents.
• NanoInit: this particular debuff will be heavily modified on the whole line of nanos, and might even be completely replaced by other debuffs tailored for the Profession you're mimicking.
• Static (de)buffs: there will be static buffs and debuffs attached to each profession you choose to Mimic, for example Mimic NT could give you some %nanodamage and extra MatCrea, at the cost of attack rating. These bonuses scale as you level, until you hit the "upper limit" for your line and pretty much have to move on to the next version to reap higher benefits.

"Perk" actions: the Devs are looking into tying the Mimic lines together with the Specialization quests, you know, those books you've got to collect to cast certain Shadowlands nanos. Each specialization will mean you get access to another action, provided you're casting the right nano along with it - IE False Profession will get less actions than Shadow Profession, even if you do have the Specializations complete.

These actions will change based on the Profession you choose to Mimic, it could be a DD action but also in the sense of classic perks a defensive option like a heal or evades. Basically this is how we'll get access to nanos, perks, items, et cetera that the Devs don't just want to give us a direct copy of. Basically the thing we've all been hoping for, finally we can compete to a certain degree with the real deal.

Another plan out there is making it a viable choice to *not* use a Mimic nano, and remain a normal Agent.

As for Mimic Doctor, there has been no news of a specific nerf to our current bread-and-butter yet, but it's safe to assume this one will be affected by the same changes other healers are undergoing. Going from Means' statements in the past that will for example include no more end-less healing.

We haven't received any further details about other key Agent abilities: I don't know what's going to happen with our AR and damage, or Concealment/Perception, or RunSpeed, Snare perks, and kiting.

In summary, it seems Agent will be one of the least cookie-cutterish Professions. We'll have a wide range of choices how to build your Agent once again, and won't be forced into one mold.

So, what do you think? They're all theoretical ideas at this point, and need a lot of work. What static (de)buffs would you like to see on each profession? What about the "actions"? Keep in mind, you aren't restricted by the existing borders: we won't be getting the perk line benefits from "Careful in Battle", or perk action "Bio Cocoon", or quest nano "Superior Nanobot Shelter", but rather a fine-tuned version designed and balanced especially for Agents!

Almost 1 year and a half later... Has Funcom made any changes on this?

I can not wait until the time Funcom promised to give the Agent Document (aka when AO comes true IRL).

Please, Lupus and Ebon talk with the devs so that you can release some info, at least some basic stuff like what is there quoted.

I can't imagine that they are holding off any agent changes until all the new nanos are out and balanced. Are they making changes on our own toolset besides Mimic nanos?

[doctorgore]

WTB updated news.

[Lupusceleri]

I chatted some with Means today.

They are holding off on the Agent nanos and the whole Mimic/Shadow thingie a bit longer because they still have to decide on what exactly they want to do with Aimed Shot. Obviously, if we have a very powerful AS we will have a different nano/perk toolset than when we have a mediocre AS. Hotswaps have also not been decided on yet, personally I doubt that the common AS/FA/SA cooldown thing is going to hit live.

Currently work is being done on something completely different btw (not directly related to agents). But haven't got clear permission to release that so I'm keeping it to myself.

Suffice to say we need to wait longer... something for which Means apologized to us on behalf of the dev team.

[sultryvoltron]

They are holding off on the Agent nanos and the whole Mimic/Shadow thingie a bit longer because they still have to decide on what exactly they want to do with Aimed Shot. Obviously, if we have a very powerful AS we will have a different nano/perk toolset than when we have a mediocre AS. Hotswaps have also not been decided on yet, personally I doubt that the common AS/FA/SA cooldown thing is going to hit live.

Seems like a stupid excuse to me.

Advys, Crats, Engis, MAs, Fixers, Traders, MPs, etc who use AS just as much as we do have already gotten their nano documents with some OP new nukes and stuff. Shouldn't the power of AS be taken into consideration when looking at, for example, the new Crat nukes?

[Arlanon]

Seems like a stupid excuse to me.

Advys, Crats, Engis, MAs, Fixers, Traders, MPs, etc who use AS just as much as we do have already gotten their nano documents with some OP new nukes and stuff. Shouldn't the power of AS be taken into consideration when looking at, for example, the new Crat nukes?

Yeah, or maybe they don't need to consider it because they're planning to stick those Professions with a crappy version, regardless of what happens to Agent AS.

[Tlatoani]

They are holding off on the Agent nanos and the whole Mimic/Shadow thingie a bit longer because they still have to decide on what exactly they want to do with Aimed Shot. Obviously, if we have a very powerful AS we will have a different nano/perk toolset than when we have a mediocre AS.

That kinda seems like a logical convincing argument at first but isn't deciding on something exactly what the rebalance is about?

"We haven't decided on NT's nukes yet because if the nukes are too powerful then the NT nano/perk toolset should be different than if they had mediocre nukes"

"We haven't decided on Soldier's AMS yet because if the AMS is too powerful then the Soldier nano/perk toolset should be different than if they had mediocre AMS"

"We haven't decided on Doctor's heals yet because if the heals are too powerful then the Doctor's nano/perk toolset should be different than if they had mediocre heals"

YET... Every profession got their nano/toolset sorted out...but agents.

Not deciding is the same as not rebalancing, not working, being lazy, ditching work, doing nothing, being inactive, being idle, ceasing action, exerting 0 force · distance , procrastinating... and still get paid.

And last time I checked, agents paid the same as other professions... Why is our rebalance getting relegated then?

At least the Mimic/Shadow thing looks more reasonable because it is more work, hence why a delay is inevitable, but what about the Agent's own nanos and toolset?

Do we (Lupus and Ebon) know if the devs know that Agents have their own toolset outside Mimics?

Why won't they work on that while they leave the Mimics for 2036?

Do they know that we are not demanding a one and only complete Agent Rebalance Document? Quite the opposite, as we understand the difficulties of such task.

[Kintaii]

I could have sworn we mentioned this briefly somewhere before, but even if so it does kinda bear repeating and expanding a bit upon so yeah, wall-of-text time. XD

Agents will be seeing their document come out at the same time as the v2 nano documents for all professions, due to Genele needing to get all of their FPable nanos nailed down (which requires the "mostly-final" v2 docs to do). It's a... long chain of a lotta things, really. With Agents having access to every other profession's toolsets we can't really finalize you guys until we finalize everyone *else*. >.@ From what I recall at the moment the majority of the documentation for the base Agent nano toolset is even "done"; with us wanting to alter the False Profession line in such large ways, however, we need to finalize other, larger issues first, including the abilities, stats, perks and nanos of the other professions.

I know, I know, the waiting sucks, but it *does* mean that when we give you guys the Agent document you won't really have to wait for much *else* - Remember, the rest of the professions are waiting on their v2 documents right now, which will include significant changes for quite a few of them (and in the interim said professions are working themselves into a [in certain cases quite understandable] froth so yeah). The Agent document will be very close to its 'finalized' form on release, and though of course we'll take feedback and make alterations if needed (as with all changes we make in this process up to and after hitting live) the document will be very near its finalized form. It will also have a LOT of stuff for you guys to pour through, so with any luck the wait will be well worth it. XD

We *are* working on things and progress is still coming along smoothly - Note the mentions in FwM this week about Macro working on code needed for the rebalancing, as well as his meetings with Genele over the last several weeks. With things picking up steam and a lot of the needed code work coming together, you can definitely expect more news in the near future. =)

[sultryvoltron]

But we still have no idea wtf you're doing with Agents.

Other professions have at least seen a general idea of where you're going and were able to give some feedback. What if you give us something that's totally unacceptable, like a single obviously best Mimic that's simply not Doctor, and we don't like it?

We're stuck with it because it's fairly final? It's not my game to develop, but that's now how I would do it.

[Kintaii]

We're stuck with it because it's fairly final?

of course we'll take feedback and make alterations if needed (as with all changes we make in this process up to and after hitting live)

So no, not what you're saying and instead what I said in the post above yours. Hopefully that clears up your confusion on the matter. =)

[Arlanon]

"Final" here is kinda subjective, there's always the opportunity to make changes at any time. It's not like things are going to be stuck a certain way forever. Very likely there will be continuing changes for the better part of a year as the metagame begins to take shape.

[sultryvoltron]

So no, not what you're saying and instead what I said in the post above yours. Hopefully that clears up your confusion on the matter. =)

Your posts are too long. I mostly just skim 'em.

[Tlatoani]

Then perhaps it comes down to a question of preference, are we going to be balanced based on the utility of our mimics, or on the utility of our unique abilities? (nurse with a rifle vs. sniper with first aid kit).

I don't know about other agents but I would certainly prefer to have the Agent's unique toolset be put first and then our Mimic toolset. After all, mimicing another profession isn't (or shouldn't be) our principal role in the game.

Our forte should be that of a ranged stealth assassin, which, because cannot exist in that utopic way is nerfed to a high DPS stealth class with Mimic abilities (which greatly open the possibilities of an otherwise linear and simple class).

It is also easier and more satisfying to apply such changes to the agent profession. We all know what happens when other professions get their favorite nanos mimiced by an agent.

I would be happy playing as an agent with such things fixed as:

-Sneak movement speed increased.
-Escape nanos: working with stuns, duration time extended, and offensive abilities nerfed during cooldown, rather than the defensive ones (treatment, first aid, nano resist, def mod).
-Range on our SNIPER rifles increased along with our perks ofc.
-Rifles that actually make use of our crit %
-Perk lines fixed to support specialized setups.
-AR increased to that of an artillery profession.
-Roots and snares updated.

Having that as a given, you can go and make all the changes you want in our mimic toolset without having me worried for the outcome of the profession.

Otherwise we could be turned into a "Mimic x gives the best overall advantage if combined with a 1he sword, low HP and high nano delta setup" and you'll see the same agent in every corner of rubika. And in the worst of cases we will be going full on the same setups that the prof. of "the best mimic" trying to be as much as possible as that profession.

[Arlanon]

This is an excellent philosophy. Refine the Agent's pure toolset first, with Mimic/Shadow Profession as a splash of flavour.

Not only does this deter "the best Mimic", it also prevents excess whining and nerfage of that same "best Mimic".

In any case, Funcom really has their hands full with this Profession. It doesn't matter what they do, they are doomed to piss off many players. Such has been the Agent's true role in AO for 10 years: piss people off.

[Cyberleet]

Do we (Lupus and Ebon) know if the devs know that Agents have their own toolset outside Mimics?

Yeah...many choose agent to play stealth, sniping, evacuation/pursuit, the unique toolset, abilities (<3 holograms) and the fp-repetoir, not just the fp-repetoir and adjustements.

FC! Giev updates! Plz! ...a bone?

With Agents having access to every other profession's toolsets we can't really finalize you guys until we finalize everyone *else*.

Hello Sir! Agent actually have a great and a sophisticated toolset on their own.

[Tanana]

Has the suggestion ever been made to allow Agents to switch between mimics at will?

I'm guessing that it has and that it was considered OP'd.

What would it take to allow Agents to do this and what would you sacrifice for this ability/do you think it would be useful?

What additional disadvantages could FC give the mimic line to balance out the power of having every professions nanos (that Agents can current cast) at their disposal?

Increased Nano Cost? How about a stacking % nano cost buff each time you switch to another profession? So if you switch profession five times you get the % cost buff x5.

Increased NCU cost? With the ability to get an additional 85 ncu from fp fixer maybe a 5% added ncu cost to buffs?


I've always had a vision of Agents as the most difficult class to play in terms of the knowledge you have. They should be able to sub for any of the classic professions but should need to be on top of their game to do so.

I don't think Agents should be able to FP Shade/Keeper.

[mawu]

My view on this issue is a bit different than most others it seems. Agent toolset in my mind should be sneaky/alpha damage/.. if not in FP. As soon as an agent assumes another prof that theme should be mostly gone and the other professions toolset should be usable.

Pro: Easier to ballance (ballance agent as agent, ballance each mimic like a 80% <original prof>). Agents would pvp as agent OR a team role (healer/debuffer). Agents would get teams in raids.
Con: agent+FP toolset would not work, call that dumbed down if you wish.

[Litestrider]

First, a thought, what if we could cast True Profession at will (or got the current TP at TL5 and a new at-will one with the DB quest), but upon casting it would do a 2 minute nano shutdown ala challenger/sure shot/TMS? That way we wouldn't be bound to a 20 minute cooldown timer, yet we wouldn't be able to switch professions willy-nilly and essentially use all nanos at the same time in combat.

Second, I thought I'd share my idea of what I'd love agent to become. Fixers are supposedly, regardless of what's become of the current balance of the game, masters of hit-and-run. They're supposed to blast in, burst you in the face, and be gone again preparing for another burst before you even know what hit you. I'd like to see agents do this when not FP'd, only instead of being really fast all the time, they'd sneak in, strike, and then use a nano or ability to either conceal in plain sight, or run away and conceal (as in, fixed Bail Out nanos!). Then they'd be able to move relatively quickly while concealed to get back in position. Their damage would be medium, but they'd be able to apply it quickly and repeatedly. Fighting a good agent would be a very frustrating experience, as they'd pop in and out of your vision and seemingly be everywhere at once.

The various false professions would change this, making the agent slower and less mobile as well as applying other debuffs (such as less damage in doctor or NT) in exchange for the additional benefits, like fixer evades and meeps, or doctor heals, hopefully even somewhat-nerfed pets that are actually usable. Some of them, perhaps soldier and especially shade, could bring agent back to what it's like today, with very high alpha strikes, but relatively little defense and mobility. As Mawu mentioned, the various FP professions would even out to be something like 80% the effectiveness of the original profession, able to perform the job, and perform it well if the player is good and has good gear, but not a complete substitute for the real thing. An agent with several different suits for swapping out should be able to be like a bard from DnD, filling in whatever role is missing in the party to a respectable degree, to let a party that's missing key elements still function.

In short, I agree with you mawu

Anyway, the problem with agent being a shapeshifter-style profession is that a lot of people see the world as black-and-white. If it's not the best, it's completely unacceptable, and if it works, then it's the same as the best. So of course there will be a ton of whining about agents if they're balanced properly, I think everybody just needs to recognize that most of it will be completely unfounded and silly. Just look at the complaining already going on! When people argue against agent they act like they're a doctor with the reflects of a soldier and the mongo+rage of an enforcer and the damage of a shade. If you've played agent for 5 minutes you know that's not true. It's just the byproduct of people not thinking logically.

[mawu]

Short cooldown would make agent balance vs other profs very unstable because small changes in strength of selfbuffs of two professions would multiply on the agent side.

example: 10% boost of a doctor long heal over time, 15% boost of some reflect nano of soldiers are in itself boosting each profession 10%/15%. agent gains (1.1x1.15=1.265) a 26.5% boost.

The devs have now the (practically impossible) task of nerfing agent mimic doctor OR soldier if and only if those two mimics are used one after another in order to bring the result down to a 10% boost. Also they would bring it to 0% if a boost of agent wasnt planned at all. Now consider this with 14 professions and a million of combinations of buffs and the then-needed nerfs of the agent mimic. A nightmare.

Such multiplications must be avoided at all cost because they make the game impossible to balance with the unique agent class.

This is the reason I am against the whole TP use for buffing multiple professions buffs. IMO on TP use all buffs for that profession (at the very least the self-only buffs) should be cleared. Once that happens TP could safely have no downtime at all.

Above example works with nerfs as well btw. Consider the agent outcry if two unrelated modest nerfs for two professions are felt multiplied on the agent side.