An Agent's future..

[Lupusceleri]

Thanks for asking Lupus, Tharss4 on RK2. I am stripped right now (gave up on agents). I am thinking of releveling him. What armor should I go with? And is artillery symbiants better then nano delta implants for leveling?

Would probably be better to keep that out of the "changes" thread, and move it to a new one. So I'll leave it at that.

I was trying to find a way to suggest giving agents pistol perks without coming out with it directly. I know for a fact Soldiers are fighting the idea, I could only imagine how much worse it is for agents.

Ranged Energy, SMG would be possibilities?

I just don't understand.. why would we need Pistol support?

I feel that while yes, we should be able to adequately Mimic other professions, it shouldn't be a complete copy. Even assuming that it's possible to give Agents support for near every weapon option (and I can assure you that it's not), do you want to be an exact copy of the "real deal"? Surely, if you wanted to play a real Bureaucrat you'd roll one..

So, alternative weapon options sure, if we can provide Funcom with a good reasoning as to the why/how we want them. Pulling a "James Bond uses Pistols!" doesn't really suffice, he also uses Grenade Launchers, Assault Rifles, exploding watches, timebombs, etc - asking for all of that isn't realistic.

Now, an example for Bow support reasoning would be: bows are a silent weapon. No heat signature, no light, no "bang". This fits right in with assassination/sniping in a hostile environment.

Ranged Energy? Laserbeams hello, where oh where would the Agent be shooting from?
SMG? Noisy, easy to spot where the fire's coming from, lots of recoil, usually inaccurate..

I just think there are SO many positive ways to spin agents, but it is also crucial to know spinning them left or right could mean them still being broken, they need to be pushed in a whole new direction at TL7.

It is also crucial to focus. I can tell you right now, there's no way we're going to "get it all" and become some sort of uberprofession. When you think up suggestions you HAVE to stay realistic, and asking for 5 new weapon options to be supported doesn't fall under realistic for me.

Well, popular opinion vs professional opinion.

I don't think we need any weapon or damageupdate, whats the point?

How come not? Seems there's something grossly wrong when an Artillery profession is getting consistently outdamaged by things like Doctors.. as well get beaten up by a little white rabbit.. oh, wait.

We need to have a detaunt-toolset with proper functionality in practice first, and to have our nanorepetoir properly enhanced. Until then I see little reason in asking for new rifles or something, beside new holograms of course.

They haven't been updated for a veeery looong time.

I know we've had this discussion before, but could you please just explain why you feel detaunts are needed if we don't have the damage to take aggro?

[Esproc]

In fairness special/secret agents aren't ALWAYS a sniper, some do have to go in and use some rapid fire on groups of hostiles.
Carrying around a full sized assault rifle as well as a sniper rifle is too cumbersome.
A small smg or a pistol would be easily carried along with your rifle for personal protection in close combat.

Granted rifle works fine in-game since no weapons have a minimum range where they cannot fire from.
Which to some extent is a shame since it would give weapons and weapon choices more relevance.

Along those lines some of the smaller ranged weapons would also have to have a lower capped range than rifles.
But to convince anyone to seriously consider going for this?
Eh...

[Ctrlaltwin]

Quoted the important parts....

So, alternative weapon options sure, if we can provide Funcom with a good reasoning as to the why/how we want them. Pulling a "James Bond uses Pistols!" doesn't really suffice, he also uses Grenade Launchers, Assault Rifles, exploding watches, timebombs, etc - asking for all of that isn't realistic.

Now, an example for Bow support reasoning would be: bows are a silent weapon. No heat signature, no light, no "bang". This fits right in with assassination/sniping in a hostile environment.

Ranged Energy? Laserbeams hello, where oh where would the Agent be shooting from?
SMG? Noisy, easy to spot where the fire's coming from, lots of recoil, usually inaccurate..

It is also crucial to focus. I can tell you right now, there's no way we're going to "get it all" and become some sort of uberprofession.

First of all, massive props for the James Bond reference.

Secondly, it isn't about the most "logistical weapon" here. As of right now, we know duel wielding > 2H. If this doesn't change, then I believe EVERY profession should have at least two weapon options that are fully supported, with AT LEAST one having duel wield capability.

I'll agree SMG just don't add up, and pistols are easy to contest. But Ranged Energy - laserbeams is definately something James Bond would totally dig. You also forget Lupus, you are the MotherF Agent. The MotherF agent is all about pulling out some crazy stunts to be an assassin. Just sayin'

To change focus - I am not saying some "uber profession". But definitely one that could be considered it. Using Shadow Profession to CHOSE a strong advantage like most professions have. Agents would be a useful PVM profession, and PvP would open up many options.

Overpowered? That is an open debate, and if I was in it I'd say no. Agents are meant to be this role in AO. If it means more then 15 people want to play agents, then great! I DO NOT think it will turn them into something OP or godlike. They still don't see any of the true strengths of any one profession.

~Suggestion~ Give agents every professions nano, but with a twist. If True profession - 150 to xxx, If Agent FP - 120-130 to xxx

Ton them down by a bit, and give agents a whole arsenal of options. Only weaker...and if you STILL think that is OP...don't forget where adventurers stand. Great offense, great defense, great support, great forms....Agents were meant for this role Lupus.

In fairness special/secret agents aren't ALWAYS a sniper, some do have to go in and use some rapid fire on groups of hostiles.
Carrying around a full sized assault rifle as well as a sniper rifle is too cumbersome.
A small smg or a pistol would be easily carried along with your rifle for personal protection in close combat.

Anyone else for Ranged energy? Fits the bill perfect, without homogenizing into another smg/pistol profession.

Edit: I get not everyone is going to see eye to eye on this. Would everyone agree that agents at least deserve to be unique? That is the envisionment I am seeing of Agents.

[zorxer]

Maybe one of u professionals suggest to remove the 210+ on HLOA? I guess it will become completely obsolete when cooldowns on specials are shared and since it will have a "area lock" (due to apf) from 180, it wont be accesible to tl5 twinks (unless pvp ranges change)

should give agents some other weapon option to use at 180-201

just a thought...

[Cyberleet]

Now, an example for Bow support reasoning would be: bows are a silent weapon. No heat signature, no light, no "bang". This fits right in with assassination/sniping in a hostile environment.

Don't forget tigress-envy! Hehehe...

could you please just explain why you feel detaunts are needed if we don't have the damage to take aggro?

Never said we need detaunts if they are not needed, same with taunts...and halloween stuff for that matter.

It's the same with damage, we don't have proper tools to deal with aggro the agentway.

Carrying around a full sized assault rifle as well as a sniper rifle is too cumbersome.
A small smg or a pistol would be easily carried along with your rifle for personal protection in close combat.

Can always conceal a rifle by dismantling it and carry the pieces with you.

But it would be cool to have that system AoC has:

A silenced pistol with mediocre damage as a secondary weapon.

/dreams of how cool this game would have been if more money were added to it.

[Anarrina]

There is no reason to take this argument to a personal level. So, stick to the issues and stop throwing around words like "discredit" or moving the conversation to a fight. Thank you.

[Ctrlaltwin]

There is no reason to take this argument to a personal level. So, stick to the issues and stop throwing around words like "discredit" or moving the conversation to a fight. Thank you.

Where was ~ANY~ post taken to a person level? I haven't really found any.

ON a non-personal joking level, I discredit this.


Also, still think Rifles/CH are MUCH more important then detaunts. Detaunts ~maybe~ ranks in top 10 agent issues, not so much top 5.

Edit: Off topic: This year to date (11/6) I got my first infractions from you Anarrina. Execessive ranting with Martial artist forum pvp'ers got more heated then this thread EVER did.

[Cyberleet]

I wouldn't be one arguing for bow support, but evades and ch-support seem like a bigger issue.

Here we disagree, I don't think CH-support or suddenly making this into an evade-class is an issue.

The game-system is open for DD-docs and evade-agents, but...get my point?


CC, using snareperks (so we can stand still shooting in sureshot-mode), having reliable detaunting tools with sane requirements and extending the FP-line so we can combat and function in a team and solo is important to me. DD-agents cycle everything else but mimic doc, but the viabillity of playing outside docmode is too low.

So we're forced to sacrifice damage and go into mimic doc and possible hp/evade/caster-setups to cope.

A QL 300 repressor with low psy-requirements, better nanos (range is horrible) for all levels and a 100% chance proc/perk-action (a detaunt-tick on a Toxic Shock typeofthing) on demand would help a lot in adjusting those agent-features and making them relevant to use.

We don't need any more damage or rifles until that is solved imo. We're fine

Even OD'd/held agg from soldiers and shades in Ely (and in 42 too with a higher level agent thats 'maxed out' [220/30/70 and all nanos/endgame-stuff], several times) the other day, and then I splatted... of course!

Why are on a crusade for Detaunts?

Am not really that, but imo someone is on a crusade against it. Thats a pretty good question btw

[Ebondevil]

Even OD'd/held agg from soldiers and shades in Ely (and in 42 too with a higher level agent thats 'maxed out' [220/30/70 and all nanos/endgame-stuff], several times) the other day, and then I splatted... of course!

Were you Running the LE Detaunt Procs at the time you were holding the aggro?

[Cyberleet]

Were you Running the LE Detaunt Procs at the time you were holding the aggro?

No, I never use the SL or LE detauntprocs, always the damage and critprocs which gives significant DD-increase. That is a flawed design in itself. Would really want the detauntproc-system changed into something that gives 100% chance on demand (instead of casual chance) without sacrificing damage.

This way we can continue to do our job if we are active. All levels should have them available btw.




So they taunt now? FC!

Aw, and we gonna get balanced last! ...can't wait! This takes forever.

[Esproc]

Can always conceal a rifle by dismantling it and carry the pieces with you.

Cast time on aimed shot incoming and now you want a longer equip delay as you assemble the gun every time?

[Weltall]

We do generate a lot of agg tho, also from outdamaging people at all levels, from totw to sec42.

Hrm, well I do know agents are the best DDers from tl1-tl5 and pretty much nothing can OD them at that range but I find it hard to believe you can OD a properly setup shade/engi/NT at tl7

[zorxer]

can't wait for valaris to update this

i'll be genuinely surprised if its high above 160k with a standard rifle (ie angst)

edit: took a shot at it myself and died after 5mins, but hey the dmg seemed crap enough for me to not even bother trying again
220/26/68 agent with this using laser aim, grim reaper, sickening dmg buffs (i cant justify the IP to get a bit more dmg from higher ones), also had db1 buff running and 9 extra dmg from ice golem buff
in mimic enf using challenger and ignats when available (btw i didnt use scope because i wanted the gun to be 1/1 in full def)

anywho, result was;
zDD v1.03 (parsed from 5 minutes, 15 seconds)#: totalDmg : name : crit% |dpm| reg-crit-spec-nano hits
1: 547,832 : Xxploit : 57.0% | 104,348 | 43-57-11-214
dmg type - sum : # of hits | avrg | min-max
Regulars:
Poison - 108,323 : 43 | 2519 | 2401-3481
Crits:
Poison - 236,941 : 57 | 4156 | 3993-4993
Specials:
Fling Shot - 33,130 : 10 | 3313 | 2481-4293
Aimed Shot - 13,000 : 1 | 13000 | 13000-13000
Nano:
Melee - 13,230 : 47 | 281 | 136-1012
Energy - 13,000 : 2 | 6500 | 6500-6500
Poison - 60,938 : 128 | 476 | 218-2800
Radiation - 12,000 : 10 | 1200 | 1200-1200
Projectile - 57,270 : 27 | 2121 | 1234-5855

i could have had 22 total flingshots instead of 10 in that time but i doubt it would have made a big difference

[sultryvoltron]

Ebon, do you still have all the stuff for your crit setup? I'd be interested to see how that performs on a LoTV test.

[zorxer]

i remember i had a contest with an orgmate trader in inf easy (cant remember what other profs were in team) and managed about 160k dpm....still had my ass handed to me by his output though

problem is that even when i get a chance to do nice damage, its usually on low hp mobs and the perks are just too slow and sometimes execute after mobs are dead which isn't really helpful

[somenamehere]

Neutnet: (Someguy) We doing this or that, need some DD, pst.
220 agent: Hi there, i 'll join you.
Someguy : Prof?
220 agent : Agent
Someguy : I said we need some DD ... :/

Obviously the reason we are at the bottom of damage is cause we hold back, fearing that we will get aggro. If our detaunts are fixed then we wouldn't have any damage issues.

[Driial]

Neutnet: (Someguy) We doing this or that, need some DD, pst.
220 agent: Hi there, i 'll join you.
Someguy : Prof?
220 agent : Agent
Someguy : I said we need some DD ... :/

Obviously the reason we are at the bottom of damage is cause we hold back, fearing that we will get aggro. If our detaunts are fixed then we wouldn't have any damage issues.

Lmao ur letah`s follower or what? when did u see an agent holding back his damage, because of the fear he might get aggro?(roll something else if u can`t handle taking aggro) i can`t believe this...we have nothing that works good in our toolset...but u guys keep pushing the detaunts in front like the agents can`t do anything without them...meh...i hope they remove detaunts from our toolset...like many of us said here...we didn`t use...and prolly will never use them.

[somenamehere]

Lmao ur letah`s follower or what? when did u see an agent holding back his damage, because of the fear he might get aggro?(roll something else if u can`t handle taking aggro) i can`t believe this...we have nothing that works good in our toolset...but u guys keep pushing the detaunts in front like the agents can`t do anything without them...meh...i hope they remove detaunts from our toolset...like many of us said here...we didn`t use...and prolly will never use them.

It was sarcastic, cannot believe you took it seriously. No reason to post anything serious in response to Letah's post. He is just trolling for years now asking detaunts and holograms.

[Cyberleet]

220/26/68 agent with this using laser aim, grim reaper, sickening dmg buffs (i cant justify the IP to get a bit more dmg from higher ones), also had db1 buff running and 9 extra dmg from ice golem buff
in mimic enf using challenger and ignats when available (btw i didnt use scope because i wanted the gun to be 1/1 in full def)

Thats a horrible equip for DD'ing in pvm and bad buffs. Full agg if rifle is slow. Use the Xan-Rifle, it's fast. U might need a outside tank tho, cause agent solo-abillity is not so good unless you play in doc/some odd CH-based setup.

A full-on add damage/crit-setup doesn't use any CSS nor signet-ring. I use the QL 300 head-symb tho and have ACDC which not all have access to I guess, it gives both hp and dd.

QL 300 VTS is very important.

Buffs.

Use 'Harm Shock' (or Unsettling Shock which is easier to cast) and 'Waves of Trauma/Harm'. Should be easy to selfcast with a descent QL phulak as un-fp'd agent.

Procs you did right. Grim Reaper and crit is imperative.


Then MA >>> TP >>> Adventurer. Cycle dots, consentration and sureshot... have some coffee.
>>> /disco (may not work in kitty). In general you skip HP-buffs and others if you have little room for DD-enhancing buffs.

Sharpshooter-line is essential + the obligatory perks.

Damage-output should be ok, altho endgame we often get OD'd by shade for example or osb'd ubergood DD-soldiers.

Not sure if I missed anything.

[Cyberleet]

i`m not like those lazy ass ppl who like to stick around in a raid and do something else beside that...*omg i got aggro got to run for cover* i can handle my own stuff even without detaunts...

Depends entirely on the mimic you are running, if you are at a level where you run mimic and what build.

and i don`t think any1 cares what`s ur top priority since u don`t give a **** about others to...

I do care...I think it's the other way around about not givin a ****

this games wasen`t made only for you to play, so stop acting like ur more important then any1 else...

It wasn't really me who started with 'fix x first, then y'...but it's a fair game.

When someone else do it, it's trolling? So who is actually trolling threads and neglects others?

It doesn't matter if it's seeminly a minority-concern either. Imo, whats suitable for the profession and what isn't OOC should be more valid than anything.

Beside, i haven`t seen a clear answer beside *it`s ingame i want to see`it work corectly* reason why U NEED detaunts...imo ur the one trolling not the rest of us

And I haven't seen a clear anwer why damage is so important beside; 'It's ingame and I want it to see it increased while I FP doc, twink my hp, cost-modifiers, nanoinit, resist and my evades + that is more important than other players concerns or having the toolset of the actual profession and other FP's be of any viabillity'...

I gladly play that game if thats gonna be the tonality.

I stand for my opinion that detaunts should be fixed first.