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Thread: Report back from your represenatives

  1. #141
    Bah if they truly rebalance everything, even 90% may be over the top. If it's too high, every other profession will complain about how hard it is to kill a soldier, and ask for nemesis nanos, nerfs, etc...

    Clearly, we have the choice between an old fashioned high reflect AMS, (which means all CC professions root/snare us and go away, others just avoid us or somehow tank us (docs, Enfs, fixers)) and something new.

    When TMS first came out, the normal attack hits actually mattered, there weren't nemesis nanos, people had less run speed, etc. Given the fact we have the least run speed, no NR etc. I find it pretty frustrating to be the big reflect fortress, slow as hell, that everyone avoids for 1:20 mins.

    All in all, I would definitely trade a few %, even more so if it makes others profession stop complaining, against a bonus in say, Nano resist, HD, Crowd Control nano ressists, etc.

    Would be nice to be less of the fool stuck in a corner with his ubah shield up, not able to do anything, and more of a mobile soldier, resilient for a given duration but vulnerable the rest of the time. (in the case nemesis are reduced ofc)

    It seems easier to balance a soldier getting a balanced AMS, useful against any profession, than a soldier getting a crazy AMS making him totally invincible against some given professions and totally useless against others.

  2. #142
    Quote Originally Posted by Berinda View Post
    At what point did anyone ever mention coon will be moved back to how it worked before? The change is the PvP and PvM damage will be calculated differently, so in the end the coon doesn't break in one shot and the person underneath the coon cannot be hit for 30% of their HP. Since this absorb mechanic and reflect mechanic are inexorably linked, that means you can't do PvP caps on soldiers under AMS. The changes are not being reverted back to before the "absorb nerf" because it was ridiculous overpowered. While reflects weren't ridiculously overpowered, changing absorb calcs apparently changes reflect calcs - and I daresay between new weaponry and the Ofab back soldiers have adjusted just fine.

    The other huge change to absorbs is there will be a hardcap on them, which means you will still be doing damage to someone with coon up.

    As I said, I'm not entirely sure with how coon worked throughout its lifetime. All that matters is whether or not it can be overcome within 15 seconds, imo. If no, then it's going to be a big problem for soldiers, who only have a limited time to kill their opponent before they themselves have to worry about their hp.

    I have bolded and underlined two different parts of your message. First, I want to know what you mean by 'coon won't break in one shot.' If it still absorbs 10000 damage, and it doesn't break in one shot, then I believe I got it completely right. You won't be able to land FA, break coon, and proceed to do damage. It doesn't really matter how it's CALCULATED. If I'm firing away in BS, I'm not doing some silly calculation in my head to determine whether coon is about to break on the next FA. Instead, I'm staring like mad at my AMS timer and my damage spam, wondering when the hell I can fire more perks and work down the massive hp of an enf, or overcome the healing of an advy. You need to explain this more - will coon be using pvp caps, so a 15K hp advy can only take ~4500 damage to their coon each FA, resulting in ~2 FAs (assuming enough bullets land each time) to get through the coon? Or will coon still take 10000 damage at once, but stop there, so that it will always stop AT LEAST 1 special (sort of like a special blocker), and then it's open to damage in that damage type? Or will it stay pretty much as it is now, where the full 10000 shield can be removed in one special, AND more damage can be done on the character itself?

    Second, the underlined portion. Why, I must ask, are the reflect and absorb mechanics linked so closely? Is this just some pathetic piece of coding, or something more? They are two different values in game, so I would really like to know why it's so hard to separate them.

    NOW, let me outline *MY* current understanding of the mechanics, so I'm not just spouting off random crap:

    Reflects: Allows the soldier to be 30% capped under reflects, if their HP is low enough. That means that on a 15K capped FA, and 90% reflect, the soldier would need ~5000HP to be 'capped.' Ridiculous, obviously, but just for the sake of argument. The calculation for reflects is done BEFORE the pvp cap. So, that same 15000 FA still counts as 15000 even on the 5000hp soldier, not the 30% cap, 1500. In the first case, where it counts as 15000, the soldier will take 1500 damage after reflects. In the second case, where reflects are counted AFTER the 30% cap, the soldier would take 150 damage. The first case, currently, is the correct one.

    Coon: Allows the user to be 30% capped after 10000 damage worth of absorb. However, does not (?) take into account the 30% cap until absorbs are removed. Instead, the 13K/15K damage hard cap is used. So, an enforcer with 80000 hp could theoretically hit coon, absorb 10000 damage, then suffer another 5000 damage from a 30 bullet FA. Enough bullets need to hit for this to matter, obviously. This isn't SO bad, in my opinion, since the 30% cap isn't being used. At least one special is heavily reduced against high HP profs, although low HP profs (read: advy) don't gain as much benefit. The chance of hitting enough bullets to blow through that AND do damage to an advy is slim anyway. IF THE 30% CAP IS USED: then, as I understand it, a 80000 hp enfo would take 10000 damage to coon, and then still the same 15000 damage to hp. The 15000 hp advy, though, would only take 5000 damage to coon. And that's it. Nothing else. The next FA would go directly to coon. The NEXT (third) FA would potentially break through coon, assuming the previous two FAs have done enough damage.

    As I understand it, the FIRST case is what is in play as I speak. Although, now that I think about it, I'm not 100% sure this is the case. If anyone could clarify, I'd appreciate it.
    Last edited by avo345; Jan 15th, 2010 at 02:55:09.
    Paratrooper (aka tarapooper/P-Rex) -> 220/30/70 Soldier

    Satyavati -> 150/7/39 Adventurer

    Politie -> 208/20/57 Bureaucrat

  3. #143
    From my understanding, coon calculates all damage without caps, applies that damage to coon, then overage hits the player if there is any.

    As for the values between absorbs and reflect being linked, I don't know. I'm not an AO dev, a computer programmer or even an employee of Funcom. But if I had to guess, it's from crappy coding from when the game was released.

    I can tell you your fears won't come to pass. If it's as overpowered as you think it will be - and I doubt it will - it won't make it past testing. How things work in the current PvP and PvM environment are poor basis to feel you know how changes will work in the future.

    This is positive news for soldiers at TLs below 7 in PvP.
    Quote Originally Posted by kesh View Post
    I heard black troxes have a huge nothing.
    Berinda: Assault rifle

    Wenona: SMG

  4. #144
    If it takes longer than 15s to break cocoon, the Soldier is in trouble due to their HP losses?

    Lolwat?

    Engineer that can rip your reflects aside, I fail to see how any cocoon using profession poses a threat if cocoon lasts for the full 30s, or longer than 15s, less than 30s.

    Cocoon: 30s.
    AMS: 80s.

    However way you look at it, having a 10k absorb blown away in a single shot, is retarded. Just as retarded as having your main defence removed with a single nano cast (BR). Funny how Soldiers want one nerfed (BR), but some Soldiers are posting to keep the other retarded mechanic (FA vs Cocoon).

    Yeah.
    Member of Spartans
    Hacre/Solitus/Keeper/220/29/70 - Ninpopotamus/Solitus/NT/220/30/70 - Charmming/Opifex/Crat/220/30/70
    Quote Originally Posted by randomalpha View Post
    in the end soldier is not Op or even near from that never was never will be just for the record only keepers are the ones before soldiers on the nerfest list
    Genius at work.

  5. #145
    Quote Originally Posted by Hacre View Post
    If it takes longer than 15s to break cocoon, the Soldier is in trouble due to their HP losses?

    Lolwat?

    Engineer that can rip your reflects aside, I fail to see how any cocoon using profession poses a threat if cocoon lasts for the full 30s, or longer than 15s, less than 30s.

    Cocoon: 30s.
    AMS: 80s.

    However way you look at it, having a 10k absorb blown away in a single shot, is retarded. Just as retarded as having your main defence removed with a single nano cast (BR). Funny how Soldiers want one nerfed (BR), but some Soldiers are posting to keep the other retarded mechanic (FA vs Cocoon).

    Yeah.
    I didn't mean that coon lasts longer than AMS or anything of the sort. But since I can only speculate from the CURRENT STATE of things: enforcers, as randomalpha has already mentioned, barely go down at the end of AMS, if they go down at all. Adventurers have enough healing as it is; if you can't break through coon in a reasonable amount of time, you're screwed. You're thinking about it in terms of damage only. I'm thinking about it relative to what the soldier has already done. 30 seconds to heal up all the damage that the soldier may have done is a LOOOONG time. I'm not worried about a soldier losing hp, I'm worried about the soldier not having enough time to do more damage before their own defenses are gone. No one is saying that a 10K absorb should be gone in 1 FA, I just don't want it to be silly retarded. Propose your own concept then, rather than just spouting off sarcasm.
    Paratrooper (aka tarapooper/P-Rex) -> 220/30/70 Soldier

    Satyavati -> 150/7/39 Adventurer

    Politie -> 208/20/57 Bureaucrat

  6. #146
    Quote Originally Posted by avo345 View Post
    I didn't mean that coon lasts longer than AMS or anything of the sort. But since I can only speculate from the CURRENT STATE of things: enforcers, as randomalpha has already mentioned, barely go down at the end of AMS, if they go down at all. Adventurers have enough healing as it is; if you can't break through coon in a reasonable amount of time, you're screwed. You're thinking about it in terms of damage only. I'm thinking about it relative to what the soldier has already done. 30 seconds to heal up all the damage that the soldier may have done is a LOOOONG time. I'm not worried about a soldier losing hp, I'm worried about the soldier not having enough time to do more damage before their own defenses are gone. No one is saying that a 10K absorb should be gone in 1 FA, I just don't want it to be silly retarded. Propose your own concept then, rather than just spouting off sarcasm.
    Having a lower check on the first 3 bullets would make a lot of difference here. As I see it, the biggest problem with FA against cocoon professions is having every bullet rolled and all bullets subsequently missing if just one misses. So bad luck on the first bullet? No damage at -all-. Which is where the problem actually lies when up against Advies and Enforcers. Advies because of their obvious Acro cycling so even if you do manage to hurt them, whee pop Cocoon+DoF or Limber (or both) and heal back to full. Enforcers, because they have a hell of a lot of HP you need a lot of bullets to land to make a dent and any serious Enfo is in a pretty defensive setup nowadays if they PvP.

    TL;DR: Changing the check on at least the first 3 bullets in an FA to give those bullets a better chance of landing should more than bridge the gap of no longer being able to one shot cocoon.

    I'd even go as far as to say that the first bullet should have a retardedly low check, I doubt it's a lot of fun going into 11s recharge for absolutely zero damage dealt. I know it's really no fun at all for a Triple to get countered and be stuck in 5.5s recharge.

    From personal cocoon experience I can only comment on it from a Keeper perspective. Before the absorb nerf, fights with Soldiers were fun and could go either way. After the absorb nerf and Soldiers got attack rating by the truck load, it was just another profession to try and avoid. So less fun. Which sucks.
    Member of Spartans
    Hacre/Solitus/Keeper/220/29/70 - Ninpopotamus/Solitus/NT/220/30/70 - Charmming/Opifex/Crat/220/30/70
    Quote Originally Posted by randomalpha View Post
    in the end soldier is not Op or even near from that never was never will be just for the record only keepers are the ones before soldiers on the nerfest list
    Genius at work.

  7. #147
    Quote Originally Posted by Hacre View Post
    Having a lower check on the first 3 bullets would make a lot of difference here. As I see it, the biggest problem with FA against cocoon professions is having every bullet rolled and all bullets subsequently missing if just one misses. So bad luck on the first bullet? No damage at -all-. Which is where the problem actually lies when up against Advies and Enforcers. Advies because of their obvious Acro cycling so even if you do manage to hurt them, whee pop Cocoon+DoF or Limber (or both) and heal back to full. Enforcers, because they have a hell of a lot of HP you need a lot of bullets to land to make a dent and any serious Enfo is in a pretty defensive setup nowadays if they PvP.

    TL;DR: Changing the check on at least the first 3 bullets in an FA to give those bullets a better chance of landing should more than bridge the gap of no longer being able to one shot cocoon.

    I'd even go as far as to say that the first bullet should have a retardedly low check, I doubt it's a lot of fun going into 11s recharge for absolutely zero damage dealt. I know it's really no fun at all for a Triple to get countered and be stuck in 5.5s recharge.

    From personal cocoon experience I can only comment on it from a Keeper perspective. Before the absorb nerf, fights with Soldiers were fun and could go either way. After the absorb nerf and Soldiers got attack rating by the truck load, it was just another profession to try and avoid. So less fun. Which sucks.
    That's the thing: the one profession that can actually argue for coon changes is keepers. The rest are on the top of the food chain. Giving something else to keepers is a better argument than changing coon for the other 3.
    Paratrooper (aka tarapooper/P-Rex) -> 220/30/70 Soldier

    Satyavati -> 150/7/39 Adventurer

    Politie -> 208/20/57 Bureaucrat

  8. #148
    I would just forget what you guys think you know about cocoon and absorbs, it is all changing anyways. Enforcers also do not have 80000 HP when pvping....that is fully OSB'd with BI running on a PVM twinked enforcer lol (I had to unperk bio shielding to reach that high). Try about 65000 with DB ess or 40000 without. 40000 = easy to kill (land dodge debuffs and every FA should cap), 65000 = easy to outrun, so the only people that should have trouble are the ones that want to duel without kiting or get kited themselves, you know 100% of the time now

    Also, just to clarify, are you guys actually supporting the lower def check for the first bullets in Full Auto now, or was it only a bad idea when I tried to suggest it Keep in mind, I asked for help on the idea and only 1 soldier offered any, but if this is the idea soldiers have been pushing for I would have been willing to input my fixer and advy's experiences with the special

  9. #149
    80000 was just for the sake of a calculation, but I'm happy you actually paid attention to the concepts in my posts and didn't nitpick about an arbitrary number .

    And no, enforcers are not that 'easy' of a kill. In BS, they'll just run away unless all their defenses are up. In duels, they can set themselves up to counter a soldier. In tower PVP, all these changes don't make a goddamn difference when it's 40v40.

    For further explanation of enf v. sol fights, ask someone else, I've typed enough.
    Paratrooper (aka tarapooper/P-Rex) -> 220/30/70 Soldier

    Satyavati -> 150/7/39 Adventurer

    Politie -> 208/20/57 Bureaucrat

  10. #150
    I really don't get why people spend so much time and energy speculating about things such as absorb changes, which moderately concern us as soldiers, and why they do not focus instead on the making of a clear wish list, which is actually what this thread is about.


    Seriously, there will be a big re balancing, until we know more, sending blocks of text about rumors seems like a big waste of time and it makes the whole thread totally useless for an interested developer willing to learn about soldiers wishes...

  11. #151
    Quote Originally Posted by Hacre View Post
    If it takes longer than 15s to break cocoon, the Soldier is in trouble due to their HP losses?

    Lolwat?

    Engineer that can rip your reflects aside, I fail to see how any cocoon using profession poses a threat if cocoon lasts for the full 30s, or longer than 15s, less than 30s.

    Cocoon: 30s.
    AMS: 80s.

    However way you look at it, having a 10k absorb blown away in a single shot, is retarded. Just as retarded as having your main defence removed with a single nano cast (BR). Funny how Soldiers want one nerfed (BR), but some Soldiers are posting to keep the other retarded mechanic (FA vs Cocoon).

    Yeah.
    well if coon was ur only defense it wouldn't be a problem but keepers got heal perks , habb , evades even , high AAD so 30s is way too much also itis very hard to remove coon in 1 fa for decent keep as we talking , and put in mind the improvements that keeper getting too
    also i know keepers who can survive 80s but can't do dmg in the 40s down time due to the keeper lack of dmg
    imo keepers lack dmg
    any rework for cocon vs capped special is direct hit for soldiers
    and to blow 10k in retarded shot u need enough AR to cap fa and at least something around 2550-2600 FA , GL to twink that w/o screwing up ur nano skills , HP , my self using ams III and moving with crappy HP to keep this
    and i still can't do it unless my target is fully debuffed , put in mind our debuff ability getting reduced in both the amount of dodge debuffed and the duration by the next patch and 1 shoot = coon kill will happen mostly vs enfs , u rarely see this vs keepers or advy who twinked their add/dodge which is case will all of em
    Last edited by randomalpha; Jan 15th, 2010 at 21:35:44.

  12. #152
    So got any improvement for soldier to be better in Soloing in PvM?
    Ceenah 220/30/66 PvM NT @ Newcomers Alliance
    Eeenah 199/0 Froob NT @ Newcomers Alliance

  13. #153
    I think soldier is pretty good at that "soloing" thing already. Can you specify what you have problems soloing? Because I can't think of anything at the moment, besides the long boring hard-hitters.

  14. #154
    Quote Originally Posted by Hatech View Post
    I think soldier is pretty good at that "soloing" thing already. Can you specify what you have problems soloing? Because I can't think of anything at the moment, besides the long boring hard-hitters.
    We are kinda bottom of the Solo class compared to Doc/Crat/Enfo/Advy/Agent/Fix/shade/keeper/MA
    Ceenah 220/30/66 PvM NT @ Newcomers Alliance
    Eeenah 199/0 Froob NT @ Newcomers Alliance

  15. #155
    Quote Originally Posted by Ceenah2 View Post
    We are kinda bottom of the Solo class compared to Doc/Crat/Enfo/Advy/Agent/Fix/shade/keeper/MA
    Kite more. Never had any problems soloing things that my Agent does, and soldier generally does it faster.
    The Fine Arts:
    Mime | Surgery | Zen
    The Traitor


    Xirayne: I couldn't care less about who is clueless or what the exact definition "real" pvp is in ao, I want "fun" pvp!

  16. #156
    Excuse me guys, please keep lengthy debates over other profs (other than soldiers) in Balance Discussions. Try to keep this thread informative, for soldiers who want to know what's going to change and to offer their opinons on it.

    If other profs have thoughts, they can make a thread saying what they think is good or bad about changes for various profs in Balance Discussions. Just a friendly request.
    Last edited by Questra; Jan 17th, 2010 at 01:25:51.

  17. #157
    Quote Originally Posted by SultryVoltron View Post
    Kite more. Never had any problems soloing things that my Agent does, and soldier generally does it faster.
    I am talking about Solo on hard monsters, especially Dyna/bosses.

    May be I am new to this or I do not know how to do it. Since i got SL only 6 months ago. But I find it there is noway I can solo better than doc/crat/ma/keepers.

    So I was just curious about whether our soldier professionals cover this part or not
    Last edited by Ceenah2; Jan 17th, 2010 at 02:08:40.
    Ceenah 220/30/66 PvM NT @ Newcomers Alliance
    Eeenah 199/0 Froob NT @ Newcomers Alliance

  18. #158
    Solo on "hard monsters" you need high healdelta along with high enough reflect to let you tank said monster in AMS without losing much hp. You keep healperks to cycle in AMS downtime and either kite or sit down to make your healdelta more effective, depending on how hard the monster hits. All the evade, crit resist and hp you can find will help you. Also, try to pick a spot to fight where you won't get many adds, or kill adds first. On various mobs you have to be smart, like if it drains nano; Get lots of nanocost gear, and use stims right before you put up shield, using TMSX will lower the cost so much a stim should be enough. Just a example.

    For mid levels, tms and kite, because you don't have that good healdelta.

    Low levels, OMHH usually beats any shield you can put up.
    Last edited by Hatech; Jan 17th, 2010 at 14:00:29.

  19. #159
    On the solo discussion. Isnt it the what gear and perk yu setup that matters. I have setup for pvm, and can solo most there is. Affect my PVP, but yu have to chose as i see it cant have both. Only thing i could be a little disapointed about is the DD we deal, feel almost every prof OD us atm. Kinda weird as i mean ive read description for sol are " DD dealers ".

  20. #160

    Post

    Thanks for the tips, but despite that i dont think I can do as easily as those solo prof :/

    btw, I would like this line of nanos to be implemented

    http://auno.org/ao/db.php?id=222818
    Ceenah 220/30/66 PvM NT @ Newcomers Alliance
    Eeenah 199/0 Froob NT @ Newcomers Alliance

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