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Thread: Rebalancing - Keeper's future - Discussion

  1. #161
    Considering blind duration & spamability, TS lock from reflect graft and the fact that you can't be in fight, virus scanner are hardly usable against blinds. But that's for another topic.

    I don't think that giving blind resist to keepers is a bad idea tho, it all depends on how blinds will be changed and how the resist could be implemented. But again, it's a deeper change than keeper balance.
    blah

  2. #162
    Quote Originally Posted by NoGoal View Post
    Considering blind duration & spamability, TS lock from reflect graft and the fact that you can't be in fight, virus scanner are hardly usable against blinds. But that's for another topic.

    I don't think that giving blind resist to keepers is a bad idea tho, it all depends on how blinds will be changed and how the resist could be implemented. But again, it's a deeper change than keeper balance.
    BS scanners can be used in a fight.

    At NW, you're probably AoE blinded, where unless you're under attack, you can use a VS.

    If you're under attack, it doesn't matter if you're blind, as you've been called anyway.

    I'd rather see removal options, rather than out and out resists. Add blinds to FMs or something and have a ql125 need 2 shots to ditch the top duration blind.
    Member of Spartans
    Hacre/Solitus/Keeper/220/29/70 - Ninpopotamus/Solitus/NT/220/30/70 - Charmming/Opifex/Crat/220/30/70
    Quote Originally Posted by randomalpha View Post
    in the end soldier is not Op or even near from that never was never will be just for the record only keepers are the ones before soldiers on the nerfest list
    Genius at work.

  3. #163
    Quote Originally Posted by Hacre View Post
    BS scanners can be used in a fight.

    At NW, you're probably AoE blinded, where unless you're under attack, you can use a VS.

    If you're under attack, it doesn't matter if you're blind, as you've been called anyway.

    I'd rather see removal options, rather than out and out resists. Add blinds to FMs or something and have a ql125 need 2 shots to ditch the top duration blind.
    I like this. Blinds should be removable using normal equipment in fights.

  4. #164
    I hope I'm not too late.

    Well, I would first like to say that I like the idea of melee energy support on keepers; some diversity would be nice. I also think the addition of riposte/parry will be nice. Now, on to some suggestions...

    What I think would be really neat would be take keepers back to their (intended but failed) roots. Can the developers find any way now to combine ranged and melee weapons? Keepers could be the masters of energy weapons, utilizing both melee energy and ranged energy. Unfortunately, I understand that that is probably just an impossible dream. If this is possible, it would definitely set keepers apart from others.

    Second, the one thing that I think is missing from the keeper toolkit is a nano that is castable during combat. Every profession has one, even shades after they got sneaking health drain. (I'm not counting the nemesis nano; it only works on agents and is lame.) It would give something extra to do during combat, some more variability. Now, what will these nanos be? I tried thinking about keepers, the "beacon of light" for their team (or some such nonsense). Anyway, to fit in with a stupidly self-sacrificing, noble theme, I thought of some possibilities...

    1. A nano, with a target that has to be in your team, that when cast will divert damage that would be done to the target to you instead. It would be an interesting toolset, especially for the leveling process. You see the tank is about to die, so you pop cocoon and take their damage for X amount of time. It would also be useful to save some squishy member of the team that decided they wanted aggro.

    2. Similar to above, except when cast will divert usage of nanopool from the target team mate to your own. The doc is out of nano? Use this nano and the doc can use your nano for a little.

    For the above nanos, I was thinking of a 100% transfer with increasing duration for higher levels.

    Thinking of nanos is harder than I thought, but I can squeeze through one more...

    3. A "freeze" nano. This would be AoE or single target. What it would do is add a massive initiative debuff ( >9000 ) to the target for a very short amount of time. (The intended effect is that it would stop it from hitting anything for the duration of the effect.) Like I said, this would be a very short duration.

    Every nano I mentioned would need a lockout to keep it from being abused. They are all mostly pvm oriented (I think the tractor beam nano will be a cool addition for pvp). In addition, an improvement to the evade buff would not be amiss.

    That's all I can think of for now, so I'll return to my regularly scheduled lurking.

  5. #165

    Keepers in General

    Generally i would like to see Keepers getting some sort of love/update/bug fixes/concideration...Keepers have had ALOT of stick from forum QQer's, and yet they have sat on the FC back burner while every other profession gets upgraded/loved/bug fixed, its clear to me now that none of the developers have a keeper...if they did they would get some serious love like engies or MP's or Advy's ect ect ect....lets point out a few fact here........all other profs got new nanos from the Allapaa instance....you can tell Keepers were at the back of the que (if they was even in it) as they got an FBR (Inner sanctum weapon) with a new skin, what happened to a new tl7 evade nano, or maybe improved swimming expertees...perks and perk lines that have not been working for over 3 years....how about some reduction on the nano skill req's from there high end nano's...im pretty sure there are keepers out there that have full alpha's in and yet they stil have to swap 3-4 items to cast them, only to have a shade remove those buffs u just spent 5-6 mins buffing because yet again FC gave no NR love to Keepers nor did they improve the NR req's on those nemesis nano's...has any of the developers ever tried swapping 3-4 items in mid fight...its a laughing joke. Anyway keepers have had alot of being ignored....lets see if FC do something to sort them out b4 no1 plays them anymore.

  6. #166
    ive been playing my keeper for a few years now and ill throw my word into mix here for the hell of it.
    if they are really looking into adding melee energy as a secondary weapon chose, how about replacing the sneak attack buff on the ofab gloves and on our fast attack buff with melee energy. keepers dont need sneak attack, especially if they add something with fast attack like ive seen mentioned a few times. if you went melee energy you can get 65+ from the ql300 pen ofab gloves and 48 total from x2 ql300 tier shoulders. also Fervor of the Zealot would be 80+ melee energy then
    Last edited by Omagadrake; May 5th, 2010 at 03:42:15.
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    In their defense, I can't even work out how helpbot works half of the time.
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  7. #167
    Quote Originally Posted by Omagadrake View Post
    ive been playing my keeper for a few years now and ill throw my word into mix here for the hell of it.
    if they are really looking into adding melee energy as a secondary weapon chose, how about replacing the sneak attack buff on the ofab gloves and on our fast attack buff with melee energy. keepers dont need sneak attack, especially if they add something with fast attack like ive seen mentioned a few times. if you went melee energy you can get 65+ from the ql300 pen ofab gloves and 48 total from x2 ql300 tier shoulders. also Fervor of the Zealot would be 80+ melee energy then
    All depends IF they add some extra attack for us that uses fa, if not then i think we would need the sa. Maybe modify keeper only "backstab", just like advs/shades just a bit different to fit the keeper idea?

    - Add ME for ofab pads & gloves/helm to match the +2he adds of keep ofab.

    - Add ME perkline & support for reseach.

    - Add new shields with some tskill options thru most of the lvl ranges, something like: Newb isle/ 50 / 100 / 140 / 180 / 205 / 220. (not my idea really, has been discussed with other threads also)

    - Revamp our nanos to fit with ME. (Maybe auras to have less chance to proc when dualing ME weapons to avoid being too powerful compared to 2he?)

    Thats all that comes in mind atm.. thx.

    Tepikeep - 220 / 26
    Teppox - 220 / 20
    And a way too many lowbies...

    Proud member of
    Northern Star

  8. #168
    So all perks will have 2 second execution time, how do you guys think a perk prof like us will do ?

  9. #169
    Worse ofc. We're keepers, we're used to getting the leftovers and rejoice in the fact that at least we got something, even if it's only bad stuff.
    Why play melee when crat pets can do your job?
    Quote Originally Posted by Wyldebeast View Post
    Simple, why the melee hate?
    Quote Originally Posted by Means View Post
    ...Melee people/pets are needed...

  10. #170
    Quote Originally Posted by Orginaltepi View Post
    All depends IF they add some extra attack for us that uses fa, if not then i think we would need the sa. Maybe modify keeper only "backstab", just like advs/shades just a bit different to fit the keeper idea?
    In my mind, I see keepers not a backstabbing profession. In fact, the dead opposite.

    I'd like to see a fast attack based attack, that has the requirement of: "you must be in front of the target to use this special"

    Instead of backstab: call it: "En Guard"

    Opens when Fast attack skill reaches 900.

    This Professional Keeper special epitomizes the character of the keeper. The keeper must be facing the target, and the target must already be attacking a target. The keeper cannot use this special against a target that is at peace. This special attack has a 65% check vs evade close, and will strike for an equivalent amount of two normal hits (both of which are subject to a criticalhit modifier).

    The recharge for this special is 15 seconds.

    Not Op'd, not a capping special, could be tricky to use effectively, won't OP keepers, will do more damage, DOES FIT WITH THE KEEPER CHARACTER!

  11. #171
    Yeah except Keepers need a decent special that performs like a decent special, not a 2k (in PvP) hit at 220 that might one day crit if the moon is in the right alignment.
    Member of Spartans
    Hacre/Solitus/Keeper/220/29/70 - Ninpopotamus/Solitus/NT/220/30/70 - Charmming/Opifex/Crat/220/30/70
    Quote Originally Posted by randomalpha View Post
    in the end soldier is not Op or even near from that never was never will be just for the record only keepers are the ones before soldiers on the nerfest list
    Genius at work.

  12. #172
    wasn't parry and riposte being implemented? Or did it fail again.

  13. #173
    Quote Originally Posted by Romaas View Post
    wasn't parry and riposte being implemented? Or did it fail again.
    afaik those are still coming..
    actually haven't heard anything about keeper re-balance after the "maybe we change these"-sheets were posted.

    Quote Originally Posted by McKnuckleSamwich View Post
    DOES FIT WITH THE KEEPER CHARACTER!
    It might.. just might have a bit too high ar if it would have FA based attack.
    With the modified "backstab" i meant something quite different from the one that is in-game atm.
    Just like you said that the attacker should be in front of the opponent and that it would have a different name for sure. Wouldn't touch the dmg too much since we do lack a attack that is able to cap in pvp (well, depends how the parry/riposte is going to play out how we perform in pvp then)

    I wonder.. if it would be like u suggested with two crits in the attack you should be able to do from 10k- to 12k dmg in pvm with it. Wouldn't be much different from the backstab dmg.. i think i start to like this idea slowly :P

    Tepikeep - 220 / 26
    Teppox - 220 / 20
    And a way too many lowbies...

    Proud member of
    Northern Star

  14. #174
    Crits are useless in PvP and PvP is where Keepers are lacking the most. Have it scale on skill and bam, done.
    Member of Spartans
    Hacre/Solitus/Keeper/220/29/70 - Ninpopotamus/Solitus/NT/220/30/70 - Charmming/Opifex/Crat/220/30/70
    Quote Originally Posted by randomalpha View Post
    in the end soldier is not Op or even near from that never was never will be just for the record only keepers are the ones before soldiers on the nerfest list
    Genius at work.

  15. #175
    Quote Originally Posted by Hacre View Post
    Crits are useless in PvP and PvP is where Keepers are lacking the most. Have it scale on skill and bam, done.
    how about a check?

    Originaltepi thinks 65% evade close "might" be too low.

    I pulled that number out of my ass, loosely based on what I approximately remember in terms of weapon reqs.

    Imo, scaling damage is good too, but sometimes I find that the scale on keeper perks to be quite low. If a special scales like perks I'll be disappointed. But, if it's the same as two hits (or two crits), It's based on weapon damage range, as opposed to skill.

    Hacre whats your feelings on that: obviously, two weap hits is far more dependant on the weapon, vs skill in which the damage will have nothing to do with the weapon equipped. In essense, weapon damage could be more variable depending on twinkage, whereas, skill will likely be much less variable due to fast attack being largely unsupported in popular keeper armour (SE helm, ofab chest/sleeves don't have FA). and FA really only buffable by comp melee specials and the keeper FA buff.

    Don't forget also, lower level keepers have some weapons which are used solely for their damage range, like excalibur.

  16. #176
    I don't see a problem with 65% personally especially if it's scaling on Fast Attack skill. Evaders won't have a great deal to moan about with it.

    Someone else suggested somewhere about changing the Keeper sneak attack buff to a fast attack buff, which would help here. It's pretty obvious we're not going to get SA in our toolset in any supported manner.

    When I said scaling I meant scaling multipliers, similar to Sneak Attack/Backstab/Aimed Shot where it's a multiplier of your weapon damage and the more FA skill you have, the higher the multiplier. Hard cap it at 10k or 2x 5k (after PvP 50% reduction) so it's not as good as SA/AS but still decent and well, that's about all I've got.
    Member of Spartans
    Hacre/Solitus/Keeper/220/29/70 - Ninpopotamus/Solitus/NT/220/30/70 - Charmming/Opifex/Crat/220/30/70
    Quote Originally Posted by randomalpha View Post
    in the end soldier is not Op or even near from that never was never will be just for the record only keepers are the ones before soldiers on the nerfest list
    Genius at work.

  17. #177
    our fervor line already buffs fast attack but updated nano with like +180 and +25 aao wouldnt be unappreciated

    And I like the idea of double fastattack, i made a similar suggestion a year ago, it should be based off our fastattack and at MOST 80% check to evade clsc.

  18. #178
    Before I see:
    You hit XXXXXX for 7315 points of <call it what you want> damage.
    every 11 sec there are no balance inn this game. For us that is. Maby between other professions but thats no my problem.
    Andvord, 220 Adv (retired)
    Knekt, 220/30/70 Keep (retired)
    Haavarst, 220/23 Crat
    Delifix 217 Fix
    Delivio 215 Shade
    Dilek 174 Doc
    Delisol 165 Sol
    Clown 126 Trader TL4 twink project
    Hannibal 22 Enf

  19. #179
    FC please give keepers some love.

  20. #180
    No idea if this idea was said before but I just got it and thought I could put it here.

    It's about countering the snare/root classes, and it involves another aura line that is similar to the ward only it blocks roots/snares. Recharge of 20 or 30 seconds and can block up to 2 roots/snares. Blocks can be extended to calms/blinds/stuns as well, but our main problem are those 2 And the aura could provide with a Run Speed bonus as well, which we all know that keepers need.

    And again dunno if this has been suggested again (it's a really big post and can't find the time to read it all :S ) : that reverse knock-back should have a stun based on how far the one pulled towards you is ( for example 0.5 seconds for 1-5m and + 0.1 seconds for each meter for a max of 3s (30m) ) .

    And about the ward attack. I think it should be a no-miss shot that hits for 2x to 3x your 2he skill ( which should mean, for the average keeper, somwhere around 5000-7500 dmg ). This way we would get more DD in PvE, get a nice shot in PvP ( if paired with mongo rage it could be a bit imbalanced for squishy classes though ).
    Vibesx 220/26/65 Atrox Keeper Equip
    Soldatelu 150/15/? S10 soldier
    Tanculetu 60/6/12 Totw enforcer ( always had a crush on totw <3 )
    Luciandor 74/7/12 gimp agent
    Vibesro 141 froob enf

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