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Thread: TL 7 MP concerns

  1. #1

    TL 7 MP concerns

    And at last, the big enchilada, TL7, where we get the Deity title.

    As in the other threads, this is to get an idea as to MP concerns in TL7 in PVM as well as PVP.

  2. #2
    Pets need to be more resistant to debuffs, calms, roots, snares. Pets being able to hit targets, meaning, need for CC tools mainly. Pet AR seems fine as it is.

    We definitely need SS replaced with something more fitting to our debuff role.
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  3. #3
    Pet defences and immunities must be top of the list really. I'd say not just defences against debuffs/nanos... but also defences against weapons and perks.

    Would like to see the Mez Pet really being a useful CC in TL7 PvP. What that takes is another question;


    AR increase is a sure thing,

    range increase for the nano to 40m makes sense.

    instacast for the mez nano (change attack time) might help - or even changing it to a perk that can be cast while moving, if that's possible for pets.

    reduction of the breakability of the nano from 100% - particularly for debuffs/nanos.

    Failing a functioning Mez pet... or maybe even alongside that - a cold nuke snare is a recurring theme that makes sense.

    What to do with SS is a difficult one.... what to do with SoZ is also a conundrum and linked to the SS debate to some extent. You Profs have seen enough of those discussions now to know the issues.

    It might be cool to see 1HB improved for PvP. How about adding some runspeed, NR and %age root/snare immunity to a high level blue or gold creation shield? Or maybe have a perk type special enabled when wielding a shield, that gives an extra unbreakable root? You know I'm no expert... but it'd be great to see some kind of 1HB set-up, possibly with creations, that made a decently viable PvP setup.

    Oh... and AS Triple of course.

    X

  4. #4
    SS recharge changed to lockout.

    Pet AR and its base dmg is not good enough.

    SS recharge changed to lockout.

    OFAB pad's with 30aad/30MC/NR+weapon skill of some kind.

    SS recharge changed to lockout.

    Heal pet upgrade, not only the amount healed but its def and hp.Mezz also needs to be stronger def wise. How about a heal pet that heals for only 60% of the amount it does at the moment but heals twice as fast

    SS recharge changed to lockout.

    Lower NR check on Nano Division+scourge nanos, look's like NT's getting even more NR soon I think.

    -300 Dominates-same duration-no lame 15 second useless nano.

    Finally, bow mp's def really does suck at the moment. Seems we are getting as good as alpha'd by even crats and engi's now, this is seriously lame
    Still here

  5. #5
    I see the shield has been mentioned as a problem when considering taking the recharge away from SS and changing to lockout.

    Could understand the problem if a shield mp was some sort of raging killing machine, fact is they are annoying at best.

    More worried about running into a shield mp than say a Engi,NT or Enfo?? lets be real.

    Man did I really forget to mention the klod enhanced tripple AS bow?? although a speed increase to 1/1 with 50aad on it would be nice, thanks
    Still here

  6. #6
    X, while Corily and I have seen the arguments and statements plenty of times now I'm doing this as the DEFNITIVE thread that I'll be using to rewrite the wishlist, buglist, and have something with which I can point the devs to and say, "This is what they're saying about these TLs".

    I'll be updating the wishlist fairly soon, and I'd like to see more input from folks before I do.

  7. #7
    Couple more idea's.


    New evade buff thats been brought up lots of times.

    Improved mochams! Self only
    Still here

  8. #8
    I'll try to sum it up

    Pets : 1)The resist nanos dont work as they were intended to , pets are insta rootable, insta snareable , insta UBTable etc .... the 600 NR and 25% resist dont work at all .... I dont even bother casting these buffs anymore. I'd suggest either rise pets natural defense/resistivity , or boost our pet buffs to the valuable ammounts. Also , we should get some kind of drains/UBT remover , our HHAB is not simply enough.

    2) Pet cast time should be cut down (to , lets say 14 sec - that being without nanoc.init included , lets say cap would be somewhere around 7 sec). Nowdays our pets can be killed in literaly few seconds, which leaves us (speaking of us as of shield MPs) completely harmless , and recasting pets all the time is simply annoying

    Nanos: 1) Our debuff nanos hasnt recieved any improvement/upgrade since AO release (Cept HS and BS) , what I'd like to see is some kind of nanite improved Dominate debuffs , debuffing about -250 nanoskills , also could be possible sum those up into one , composite dominate nano. Might aswell lower the defchack on nano shutdown , or just change its attack skill to 100% MC and keep current def check, nowdays , we're having problems to land that nano even on low NR profs , such as soldiers engineers etc.
    2) We lack some kind of CC tool , as its been said many times , our pets are easily kiteable. I'd be for makeing our cold nukes having snare on it , short one ,duration similar to MIMQ nanoskill debuff.
    3) The SS question : I'm for transforming the recharge into lockdown , but leaving the defensive part of the nano as it is now would make it obviously too overpowered , maybe 20s lockdown with giving 3 blockers instead of 5 would work
    Last edited by pieceoftroll; Dec 15th, 2009 at 20:23:31.
    Metphyst 220/30 NM MP
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    Also known as Drimachus or Raljahz or Slashwrist or Pivson
    Status: Cancelled by user (2009-10-14 20:50:00)

  9. #9
    Since everyone is talking PVP (and I agree mostly ):

    PVM - an actual role with team desirability

    Dreamlist: Pets with more varied, controllable abilities
    bai2u!
    -::l2pvp!1::-
    Electronite: FFA also destroyed Clan hegemony when it comes to tower wars. Ironically the downfall was started by the most active pvpers. Another ironic thing is that the downfall happened due to pvm conflict. Silirrion: (We have pretty good anti-troll filters by now though) Means: Thong-wearing troxes will always be a part of this game and a point of AO pride. Keldros: Obviously reall trolls don't use conditioner Marlark: If this forum was Swedish in it's language .. id pawn you any day. 220 NT: tl7 is a joke most of the time. 90% of the people are double double dead. some are worth debuffing tho. Mastablasta: you guys are right and I'm wrong. Ebag: No. You alpha me'd due to the stat bug. More Ebag: I don't have any twinks currently, nor do I participate much in mass TL7 PvP (though I do go occasionally, usually just to watch). Questra: an MP in sneak eNSDed me and did about 20k damage in 10-12 seconds

  10. #10
    Ah, yes...

    Executing Nano Program: Metaing's Improved Glacial Lance.
    Someone's reflect shield hit you for 25 points of damage.
    You were attacked with nanobots for 374 points of cold damage.
    Nano program executed successfully.

    Better nukes, pretty please.
    Proud member of Shadow Ops
    Renowned jester of the double AS Tigress

    MP setup
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    Quote Originally Posted by Klod View Post
    You won.
    Making them feel special since 2008.



  11. #11
    Rihwen is a joke, all 3 are insta root/stun/snare/calm/ubt by Every single proff in game oh and dont forget charmable as well. I posted this before a lvl 83 mob landed eye blight on rihwen.. comeon seriously? Ask around MP has by far the worst pets in AO, so how to fix them....

    How about as the pet descriptions say base the pets prowess on the MP? That is to say they all have a much higher cap then they do now as many MP's dont even bother with 2 of the 3 in bs, make it so there AR and defenses are based on the intel/psychic or nano skills of the MP?
    i.e.
    Rihwen base AR 2800 %% bonus to his ar at creation if the caster has 2200-2400, %% bonus for 2401-2600 and so on maybe cap him at 3100ar

    OR base it on thee own skills and make our base buffs actually work on them Comps etc

    Our attack nano's are a serious issue i mean shield MP's use a nano from RK the very same a froob would use, give us ...something metaing ultra improved mind quake maybe? double the rk's dmg at least

    An AAD/AAO aura for our pets on top of the atm useless LE aad nano's might help same style as crats

    Pet defenses buffed across the board maybe a similar nano to the engi 5K AC buff, give MP the same style of tool even a lvl 10 engi or crat can use TRIMMERS
    Last edited by Feardoc; Dec 15th, 2009 at 13:51:45.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by pieceoftroll View Post

    3) The SS question : I'm for transforming the recharge into lockdown , but leaving the defensive part of the nano as it is now would make it obviously too overpowered , maybe 20s lockdown with giving 3 blockers instead of 5 would work

    Keeping as it is with a lockout instead of recharge is no where near being op for bow mp's, as for shield mp's, sure they will be very hard to kill for most, cant see a NT having much problem though.

    Blockers also get resisted a good amount to. There is the self cast thing, but had a chat to corily about that all ready on a change to lockout-loose being able to cast on self trade but not sure how fellow mp's would feel about that.
    Still here

  13. #13
    The question about the blockers is twofold:

    1) Where does our opponent's damage come from?

    2) Where does our survivability come from?

    If the answer to (1) is "specials" then having blockers is really good, but at the same time can be overpowered if we get a lot of it in (2). But given that a good deal of PVP damage is actually in the form of perks and apparently normal hits; and the only defenses against these are (overreliable) evades or (unreliable) absorbs/heals, then the answer lies somewhere in between.

    The game has moved away from specials-damage as the main source of PVP damage to better balance with perks and weapon AR/regular hits/crits. Meanwhile, MP evades have not kept up, nor have our absorbs/heals (or debuffs, but that's outside the scope thanks to the way SS currently works). Leaving our defenses as a one-trick pony (great against specials but nothing else) doesn't help us as it once did.

    The move to more varied forms of defense (e.g. d-t-n) may be good, but take note that FC seem to be considering nerfing nanodelta or at least not allowing the 'infinite nano' problem that makes profs like docs next to unkillable (even trox docs). And that means a nerfed nanodelta will be especially problematic for non-NM breeds, and d-t-n may make only one breed actually viable.

    I would say give us a new desecration, target must be player, combine both values and increase the amount debuffed and make it worked on perks/nukes. All profs benefit (NM slightly more as it's a nano) but our vulnerabilities remain if there's more than a couple players. If so, then we wouldn't need to change SS to a lockout: we have two situational forms of defense: one that blocks out spike damage, the other that reduces everything incoming but never totally. And then you have to use your brain in PVP again.

    After traders got -500 to all drains, better heals, more reliable form of NSD (GTH), etc. this is hardly OP'd compared to them.
    bai2u!
    -::l2pvp!1::-
    Electronite: FFA also destroyed Clan hegemony when it comes to tower wars. Ironically the downfall was started by the most active pvpers. Another ironic thing is that the downfall happened due to pvm conflict. Silirrion: (We have pretty good anti-troll filters by now though) Means: Thong-wearing troxes will always be a part of this game and a point of AO pride. Keldros: Obviously reall trolls don't use conditioner Marlark: If this forum was Swedish in it's language .. id pawn you any day. 220 NT: tl7 is a joke most of the time. 90% of the people are double double dead. some are worth debuffing tho. Mastablasta: you guys are right and I'm wrong. Ebag: No. You alpha me'd due to the stat bug. More Ebag: I don't have any twinks currently, nor do I participate much in mass TL7 PvP (though I do go occasionally, usually just to watch). Questra: an MP in sneak eNSDed me and did about 20k damage in 10-12 seconds

  14. #14
    Chrys.


    Mp's need a good upgrade to there basic def, which means evades and heals.

    Trouble is every other prof thinks even bow mp's run around with static 3.2k def and auto capping AS so our chances range from slim to low for a upgrade.

    Fact is, even if we got some super duper evade buff of 200evades+50aad thats just us catching up
    Still here

  15. #15
    Wrong topic, fixing it myself srry link to original post
    Last edited by Metafly7; Dec 15th, 2009 at 18:21:01.
    Metafly7 220/30/70 "E"

    Advfly7 170/19/42 "E"


    Proud member of ~Spirit~ Rubi-Ka Atlantean

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  16. #16
    Oh i forgot one "small" insignificant problem our pets have....

    In a sungle cast crats can take away all of our heals, all of our mezzing capability, and for shield MP all of our attacking capability, AOE calm poof the shield MP is Offensless and defenceless.


    Our pets need a total and complete overhaul, Mezz pet should be lvl 220 so we can use our best buffs on him ( not that those are much good atm) Heal pet? we need a new one or morty needs a complete overhaul in the very least he should be un debuffable or made difficult to hit. Rihwen.... why is it MP is the only prof asked to use... in affect for an Enfo it would be using a styg at 220 ( a little overstated i know)

    How about an Imporved Anticipation of Retaliation? Seriously what other proff is still using the same evades buff they used at... lvl 60?

    It should be hard if not nearly impossible for a 210 in BS to stop end game pets. But it isnt for MP pets

  17. #17
    Ah, right. Crats being able to alpha bow MP is freakin hilarious. So, yet another concern when it comes to TL7 PvP.
    Proud member of Shadow Ops
    Renowned jester of the double AS Tigress

    MP setup
    Hidden message
    Quote Originally Posted by Klod View Post
    You won.
    Making them feel special since 2008.



  18. #18
    ya it amazes me people cry OP about our shield but crats get 300AAD in perk and 300 AAD on aura and can wield 2 weapons plus have killer pets AND get evades perk .... Oo

  19. #19
    Most hast already been said by others, but i feel like commenting too
    What mostly annoys me on my TL 7 bow MP:

    - Debuffs: Combine the damage debuffs into one and make it last longer. Maybe one 1k dmg debuff that lasts for 30 secs. Its not much more than the current ones combined, but the 10 secs on the highest one atm is annoying.
    - Curse of Chronos: Not really important but I always liked CoC, maybe just lower the NR on this one, so there is at least some chance to land it on highlvl mobs and players.
    - Bow: Tig for PvP and CotX for PvM are nice, no doubt, but perk support and "buffability" s*cks. Open the frickin complete Ranger line for MPs already. Its just retarded like it is. MPs are the only ones that really use bow and its just stupid its not fully perkable. Plus, have the perk actions of this line deal more damage please. It doesn't have to be pistol mastery dmg, but a bit more than 400ish would be really nice. Along with this more AR for bow users. Maybe some kind of TL7 bow buff.
    - Defense: >>Non<< shield MPs need more defense, some kind of it. Maybe its just me sucking, but even with almost every AAD item, 300 css/cs, endgame symbs and SoS i feel very squishy in PvP with all that AR flying around lately. And i refuse to go shield :P Change the way SS works definatly, lockout would be nice instead of the high recharge disabling the ability to nuke/debuff or unsnare pets.
    - Mezz Pet: still kinda useless TL7... maybe more hp, higher chance of the mezz to land
    - crowd control: Some kinda crowd control would be nice. Although indirectly ss helps (and sucks because of the recharge, see above) theres no real cc or something like coon or limber/dof that helps survive or escape large blobs of mobs (Not shield mp). Weird idea: Maybe some kind of Mezz aura that has like 80% chance to land and mezzes all mobs in direct vicinity of the caster (like 5m range or make it trigger when the caster is hit) :P Could even make another pet instead of Gimpydira that floats above the caster and has this as permanent effekt.
    Last edited by Phracton; Dec 16th, 2009 at 11:04:45. Reason: Posting before thinking
    °

    --(Tradeskiller love! - Thanks FC!)--
    Phracton - Engi | Pyror - MP | Ariovist - Crat
    Boardmember and Waste Disposal Unit of Dragon Security Agency

    °
    - First Engineer that killed Ice Golem with a full team ... in Inferno!
    - Proud member of the first omni/neut 220 MP allstar team in iPande, with all four breeds!

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Cryfreman View Post
    Mp's need a good upgrade to there basic def, which means evades and heals.
    Trust me, I agree - I've been saying so for years I'm talking only in relation to the toolset, and the problem with evades is you either have too much (unkillable) or too little (alphakillable) and never a "balanced" amount. But that's because of the way perks work, which I'm assuming is in for some kind of overhaul, assuming FC get that right. I don't know which way that's going to go though.
    bai2u!
    -::l2pvp!1::-
    Electronite: FFA also destroyed Clan hegemony when it comes to tower wars. Ironically the downfall was started by the most active pvpers. Another ironic thing is that the downfall happened due to pvm conflict. Silirrion: (We have pretty good anti-troll filters by now though) Means: Thong-wearing troxes will always be a part of this game and a point of AO pride. Keldros: Obviously reall trolls don't use conditioner Marlark: If this forum was Swedish in it's language .. id pawn you any day. 220 NT: tl7 is a joke most of the time. 90% of the people are double double dead. some are worth debuffing tho. Mastablasta: you guys are right and I'm wrong. Ebag: No. You alpha me'd due to the stat bug. More Ebag: I don't have any twinks currently, nor do I participate much in mass TL7 PvP (though I do go occasionally, usually just to watch). Questra: an MP in sneak eNSDed me and did about 20k damage in 10-12 seconds

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