MP, Keeper or MA?

[alabraxa]

Hi every1! As many people maybe have seen, I have one post at MP part of forum, one on MA, and no on keeper... yet. I would like to make a new S10 twink, (I already have a soldier so money is not really a problem either) but I cant make up my mind what profession. I will mainly use the chara for farming PvM bounties, do a little PvP and not necessary but it would be cool to be able to solo some bosses. What profession would do best of those, and what would be a good setup? I would focus on evades no matter which prof I pick ( Is this a good idea? ) and... well, what would be a good idea? As I said, mainly for farming (Bounties) but a LITTLE PvP aswell. Thx

[-LL-]

if it's mainly for farming reg mobs in S10 and little pvp, shade is top of the fun. Works awesome in S10 (dd lesser than MAs, but not much, and beats every other class, even if you'll see everyone saying that enfo/soldier can outdamage everyone else... that's just because shades in S10 are bit rarer and they never met them :P) If well equipped, can solo CHAIIgrade w/o problems (at least up to middle, where you start seeing the yellow chaII and those are bit harder)

I do believe though that since I've never played a MA I can't really tell how much fun will it be, but for sure it works.

For the pvp part, you'll need a hp setup with your shade to be able to do something in pvp and still cocoons would be hard to break. MA can perform better I think in pvp overall, but it's fun as shade also (hp setup tho, rest just won't cut it)

MPs setups able to do some good damage aren't cheap at all it seems, but I have no experience in S10 MPs.

[Metafly7]

In my org theres a few keepers out there that function really well in Sector 10. I myself have an MA altho not at the correct lvl yet (nor will it be anytime soon due to RK4). But anyways those two are functioning really well in S10.
Mps are another story, since at 150 ull still be running around with the orange demon, ull prolly pack less a punch than above proffs. Or at its very least itll be a good challenge to try match them. Cant speak out of experience at 150, mine sortof passed that, but the options at hand for a 150 Mp arent as big a Keeper and MA i think

[Esssch]

Go MA

[JustinSane4]

You ought to read through the many excellent S10 MA and Keeper threads in their respective forums. MP isn't going to be as strong as either a fully twinked MA or Keeper, though we're perfectly capable of farming bounties and a lot of fun to play. PvP I've not got much experience but seem to do pretty well against other 150s in BS.

Keeper and MA are top of the line in S10. MA probably has better overall DD, but may be a bit tougher to play once the rebalance hits and their nano-costs on heals go up. Keeper is apparently twink in a copy of excalibur and then to quote one of the Keeper professionals "Can always perk AoR 8 + Blessing 6 for your SL perks and then just go /afk." Would seem pretty boring to me, but sounds efficient for sure.

[Dragam]

You wont struggle to keep nano up on ma even after rebalance. Using genius 2 is your friend.

[Esssch]

Keeper is apparently twink in a copy of excalibur and then to quote one of the Keeper professionals "Can always perk AoR 8 + Blessing 6 for your SL perks and then just go /afk." Would seem pretty boring to me, but sounds efficient for sure.

I actually tried this, btw. Didn't work out too well. Even getting 2 normal aliens on me was almost too much. Admittedly, my keeper is only 144 (although I personally don't think that last 6 levels will make too much of a difference). He's in QL210ish Miy's, so not a total gimp, wearing QL200 imps, CoTE, etc.

[Dancingrage]

@SSCH: At 150 try pushing to get some higher ql imps in, 215 or 225 or so. TL5 locked IIRC, so it's doable, and that'll net you more AAD/AR, though the AAD clusters are going to be pure murder to get, it won't be quite to the annoyance that trying to get, say, ql300 imps of that caliber will be.

My impression on S10 for the brief time I was in there is that we can solo decently if we're on the top of our game, and I'm curious to see how well it'd work out after the rebalancing, especially if we get similar tools for our pets like how crats got (100% taunt/damage/etc procs ftw) and with utility pets it should be useful as well.

I'd consider going MP, but that's just me talking, I prefer insta-teams and delegating who is doing what.

[Esssch]

Well my 150 enf with some ql200ish CM, SoW/CC, ql200 imps/a few symbs (dont remember QLs of them) does WAYYY better than the keeper. Like 4-5 aliens at a time, np.

[JustinSane4]

Couldn't the level/gear difference have something to do with that? Pretty huge jump from Miy's to CM, and 150 for a lot of profs unlocks perks that mean something, level 2 research attunement devices and TL5 locked stuff. When my MP was 145 with predator armor and 180ish symbs I think he probably could handle about 2 regular green aliens at a time, maybe 3, and now I can handle 6-7 (as long as only one cha II) from the equipment difference.

I'd imagine Keepers are similar. Just as an example, a level 144 Keeper with maxed Blessing/Aura of Revival has about 1,600 less perk healing per minute than a 150 with maxed blessing/aura of revival, an additional 300 max health and assuming you're going for survivability the jump from the defense research attunement device level 1 and level 2 is 55 evade/dodge. The 150 keeper will have an additional 35 AAD from a lvl 145 locked aad/aao aura instead of lvl 100 locked, the 150 keeper (assuming trox) can reportedly keep 250 ofab out of OE (way better than Miy's for sure), etc.

How much practical difference would all that make? I have no clue - never played Keeper . But it'd seem like the extra healing, defense and HP would certainly be helpful. Could twink into a higher level copy of excalibur too. No question though, enfos are good in S10 when equipped as well as yours.

[Esssch]

Ya, and I know my keeper isn't anywhere near his potential, I'm just saying that getting those perks and going afk won't work, so it's misinformation from the keeper prof. I realize my example isn't very good, but it's the only one I've seen that doesn't just say "put on excal and go afk"...I already have that enf, then a trader in ql225 css, shroud of darkest night, ql 225 salabim, so i'm not really hurting for s10 toons.

[McKnuckleSamwich]

I use 150 keeper in 224 CM in all spots except QL 250 chest. (could be 225, actually), with exact copy of excal.

I have no problems with damage, I was using two igocs before but I gave em to a buddy, using motr/barrow strength now. The setup works fine, but I don't recommend neutral due to tokenboard.

the 40 AAD I had with 2xigoc was perfect balance between superior defence and hard hitting offence.

since losing the igocs, damage has dropped slightly, as has defence. But, the guy who's using them is pvping, so thats a better use for em. Instead, I'd get a tokenboard, and honestly, that 60 AAD on a 1k board would be more than enough to provide solid defences in a tight situation.

As for numbers of mobs I can handle? It's tough to say, esssch is talking crap, because 5 cha 2's and any prof would be cooked. And, you got 2 cha 2 's and 3 nukers and youre dead too, so, it really depends on the mobs you're facing as to the survival you'll enjoy.

keeper doesn't have DOF/limber, but we have better damage than enforcer, advy, fixer, shade, MP, crat, AR sold, and non-twinked MA's.

Just make sure to get your init's up near 1055 for 1-1 full def. I have 980 or so currently and have no problems with attack speed. Perk damage makes up probably 5-7% of overall damage, so, it's definitly feasible to perk fully into AOR and blessing, and even some into HM for extra evades.

[Esssch]

I'm not talking crap, you just can't read. 1, I admitted my keeper is nowhere near twinked, I just said that he isn't gimp. 2, an enforcer set up right can take 5 cha 2's, you've just got to know when to switch off on absorbs to use challenger.


Also, LOL @ a 150 keeper doing more damage than an enf. An equally geared enf will blow a keeper out of the water in terms of DD at 150. I won't mention the other profs you apparently OD, because I don't talk out of my ass about profs I have no experience with like you.

[McKnuckleSamwich]

I'm not talking crap, you just can't read. 1, I admitted my keeper is nowhere near twinked, I just said that he isn't gimp. 2, an enforcer set up right can take 5 cha 2's, you've just got to know when to switch off on absorbs to use challenger.


Also, LOL @ a 150 keeper doing more damage than an enf. An equally geared enf will blow a keeper out of the water in terms of DD at 150. I won't mention the other profs you apparently OD, because I don't talk out of my ass about profs I have no experience with like you.

show me an enforcer who can take 5 Cha2's and I'll show exploits.

I've played: 150 agent, shade, sold, keeper, advy, MA, fixer, enforcer.

I admit a properly geared enforcer will do quite good damage, but I don't think it will OD a crit setup with exact excal. We could have a DD contest though, if you like?

Also, saying an equally geared enforcer will blow a keeper out of the water is a huge lie. So far you're zero for two.

[JustinSane4]

I'd imagine a dual crispy chirops Enf would OD any keeper with equally cheap weapons? Or am I mistaken?

[Esssch]

show me an enforcer who can take 5 Cha2's and I'll show exploits.

Both enforcers and traders can do it. Don't play a gimp enforcer or learn how to spam absorbs. Regardless, you're arguing something I never said to begin with, so /fail


A crit geared enf vs a crit geared keeper, the enf is going to win. Keepers will get a 4-6k crit every swing (excal isn't exactly the fastest swinging weap), whereas enfs get a 3-5k crit every swing, except they swing with 2 weaps. Maybe they won't blow them out of the water, but enfs will come out ahead. Exaggeration =/= lie. So far only 1 part of either of your posts have been right, and that's that keepers can perform well, which I never disagreed with. I just said they don't perform well enough to LOLafk like was stated.

[McKnuckleSamwich]

It's true they can't lol afk.

But your numbers are off.

Keepers will get about 4.5k crits with biggest excal
enf will get about 2.8-3 with crispies (a lot more with a SoW, but, soW 150 enf's aren't that common imo, mid levels SoC is more likely, which knocks about 300 max dmg off the crit, and results in a crit much closer to that of the excal.)

Excal is, contrary to your post the fastest weapon available, at 1.0 /1.0 (fastest at full defence, with only req's of 1055 melee init to cap)

that said, it may be possible to be 1/1 with SoC as well, on enforcer, with full def being less of a priority and having access to 900 ish more init buffs, selfed? (rage+physical dominance)

But, if the enf is 1-1, you get 36 attacks per minute with SOC+crispy vs 30 attacks per minute with excal.

at (2.8+4.5)/2 *36 = 131.4k worth of crits for enf
vs. 4.5*30 = 135k worth of crits for keeper

The keeper excels though in normal damage. With a focused add melee damage setup, the keeper will get on average far higher normals, say, for example, an add damage setup with:
43 (buff), 6x CM= 8dmg =48dmg + 100 from purple hud+20 from symb/implants+40 from AI bracer+38 from melee arul+32 from Motr+16 from barrow= 337 add dmg

The enforcer will get less, due to different damage typs on SoC (poison) and CC (rad) (38 less, due to mis-matched aruls), for 260ish add dmg.

Normal hits and fast attack on enforcer on crispy are about 125*(1000/400+(1500-1000)/1200)= 365+260= 665 dmg to 550*(1000/400+(1500-1000)/1200)= 1605+260 add dmg= 1865 * 1.2 (extra 6 attacks per minute))= 2238

normal hits on SoC are: 200*2.9+260=840 to 600*2.9+260= 2000 avg=1420
normal hits on CC are: 665 to 1865, avg 1265
1265 for average fast attacks = for extra 7590 dmg over a minute

for keeper is 200*2.9+337= 919 to 800*2.9+337=2657 avg = 1788

So, average hits for keeper will be higher, but enforcer get more with 1.2 multiplier for duel wielding.

(1420+1265)/2*36= 48348 dmg in a minute for enforcer over a minute using normals
add fast attack is 7590
add brawl is about say 1400 average, 60s/15s recharge = 5600
For a total of 61530 dmg in a minute
Adding average 25% crits (based on # of ankari present...) is

0.75*61530+ 0.25*131 400 (from above) = 79000 dmg /minute (spamming specials)

For keeper, using only normals, is 1788*30= 53640
Adding crits to the calcs:
0.75*53640+0.25*135 000 = 73980 dmg/min
add wrath, which is about 1200 dmg/ 15s = 4800 dmg
73980+4800 dmg = 78780 dmg/min

Overall: 78780/79000 = 99.7%. So, Enf might OD a keeper by 0.3 % But, there's easily +/- 10% of error in there based on equipment, and thats also operating under the asumption that an enf can keep SOC 1/1 by spamming rage to keep high melee init.

If an enforcer can spam rage, he can probably maintain higher DD especially because the dmg shield will add about 100-150 dmg per hit.

[Esssch]

Good call on excal. I didn't actually check the attack/recharge speed, just using 1 weap vs 2 on my enf, and not being twinked on keeper made it feel much slower. An enf can spam rage pretty easily. Mine is perked into Genius 2, never runs out of nano that way.

My crits were just guesses by the way. I haven't played either toon in quite some time. My main point to start out with is that keepers can't just afk like the keeper prof said, I didn't want to get into some huge argument about whether enfs or keepers are better.

[McKnuckleSamwich]

If you perk all the way into AoR,use jerus oscillating ligature, stam+HD setup and perk HM for extra Evades, Get RI, RRFE, Hot, and Mop, and stand on top of a tower, I bet, you could AFK fight for a very long time before you needed to check anything.

I tbh, have left my keeper afk fightign while I did the dishes, thats like 5 minute. came back to 50% hp and 3 dead mobs :P

[Esssch]

See that's my point. Any prof can afk in there, but I believe only GA4 fixers can afk for more than a couple mins at a time. Even with the setup you described for a keeper, you're going to be able to afk maybe 10-20 mins, then you're dead. Even a fixer would be debatable. Depends on if they afk'd in a place where lots of nukers spawned.