Originally Posted by Hacre
Stuns remove 100% offense and 100% of defense for me since im using a active defense.
a very big difference from ubt. Like stated earlier the people hurting the most from ubt and getting killed
by it is other docs.
And you dont even wanna know how many free movements i use up every round of battlestation.
Last edited by DrLithvium; Dec 17th, 2009 at 14:39:29.
For an entire second. Woo.
There's plenty of other professions that hurt as much as Docs do from being UBT'd. Besides, don't you have perks to -remove- it?
Probably as many as I and others do, because, shock horror, docs aren't the only profession to get stunned. You are however, one of the best equipped to deal with post stun ending.
Member of Spartans
Hacre/Solitus/Keeper/220/29/70 - Ninpopotamus/Solitus/NT/220/30/70 - Charmming/Opifex/Crat/220/30/70
Genius at work.
And you are perhaps the last person targeted when several persons around. Doc being first. You can just semi afk and attack undisturbed while everyone are trying to take out doc first.
You have maybe been stunned a time or 2 in bs. Not nearly as much as the average doc.
Fully perked docs with ring have 3 removals. During that time we get ubt spammed. We have to check ncu all he time. timing when to activate the defense, figure out what opponent that gets the next dot or ubt and spamming free movements. Lots of things happening at the same time here.
That time you can just enjoy your static defense and carefully choosing your next target taking it easy yawning and attacking. While the doc has a couple of people choping,debuffing,stunning and draining him leaving you all alone.
I´´l take your easymode pvp any day. Or play a doc and prove me wrong.
Last??? You think in real PvP an NT, and since you're RK1 and Omni (assuming you've actually PvP'd in the last 6 months), me specifically, am -last- to be called on my NT -or- my Crat? Or any NT or Crat for that matter, once the docs are down?
Think again, mate. That ivory tower is a bit high for you, methinks. Yes Docs are a prime target. This would be because you have a toolset that can turn the tide in any meaningful battle. The fact you think you're the only one that has to watch your NCU out of all 14 professions is just ridiculous, to the point where you're obviously not worth the effort trying to converse with. Next you'll say you're the worst affected by GTH.
Last edited by Hacre; Dec 17th, 2009 at 15:31:04.
Member of Spartans
Hacre/Solitus/Keeper/220/29/70 - Ninpopotamus/Solitus/NT/220/30/70 - Charmming/Opifex/Crat/220/30/70
Genius at work.
Last??? You think in real PvP an NT, and since you're RK1, me specifically, am -last- to be called on my NT -or- my Crat?
Think again, mate. That ivory tower is a bit high for you, methinks. Yes Docs are a prime target. This would be because you have a toolset that can turn the tide in any meaningful battle. The fact you think you're the only one that has to watch your NCU out of all 14 professions is just ridiculous, to the point where you're obviously not worth the effort trying to converse with. Next you'll say you're the worst affected by GTH.
Crat is not exactly a primary target. NT is high on the list though. Still NT pvp is so easy
its laughble taking targets out in a couple of button stokes. Please dont compare doc pvp to nt pvp. Dont even mention em in the same sentence.
And about the ncu checking. You still havent figured out the dif between passive and active defense i see. You will get eventually. But since cant recall even seeing your nt in bs for an entire year its no wonder you dont have a clue what youre talking about.
Can be a good idea to actually play the game youre debating about.
Last edited by DrLithvium; Dec 17th, 2009 at 15:45:26.
lol that's so much nonsense... agents suffer MUCH MUCH more from ubt than docs. Docs still have CH (which is extremely fast), heal perks, ubt removal perks, hhab that removes all debuffs, can use lower quicker heals etc etc.
My MA is pretty much crippled with it also, MAs got like the slowest weapon ingame and heals take a long while to cast rendering them pretty useless.
Guess NTs are also, as hacre said.
And lol at NTs/crats being called last... anyone with any sort of brain knows you need to take out a NT asap. Crats less so but they are still high on kill list.
he has, and i've wtfpwnd his NM Doc with ease once UBT was doled out.
when was the last time i killed an Agent FP'd Doc though even when i've hit him with UBT then started to DoT?
god, i think 1.5yrs+
Navy: if your MA is crippled with UBT (by a doc) and dies (to said doc) without any outside help, then srsly, reroll or learn your profession.
normal 212 MA versus normal 220 doc = 220 Doc usually goes down. twinked 212 MA vs twinked 220 Doc = doc goes down uber fast.
Also, if your AGENT isn't using CS and can't stun/perk-alpha w AS a doc, or hells, still dole out a considerable amount of damage when ubt'd, then again, plz reroll.
stop trolling when us non-hecknoob'd professions are having a legitimate discussion. almost every post of yours is skewed.
Last edited by Grafter; Dec 17th, 2009 at 15:59:07.
RK1
"Send Pics Plz". Meta-Wha? Noodz plz. 83/8.
"Eye Makeshiz Foryou". Pimpin' Eng Of Doom. he's the SHIZ. 174/18.
"Jack Grafter Torrence". I Like To Boom Boom Booooom. 220/zomg. AI30!.
RK2
"Perk Grafter Reset". 216/22. RK2's Retired Bukkake Doc. idle since 2007.
"Perk Graftor Reset". 142/15. RK2's Retired Pvp Doc idle since 2006.
Yeah you're right, comparing Doc PvP to NT PvP is laughable, given how infinitely much more staying power you have compared to almost anyone else, rivalling Soldiers.
Don't start a head to head on this, I've got a huge bag of "Why docs are among the upper echelon of the PvP professions" that you want no part of.
Wind your neck in, for once.
I will say it -again- for the hard of reading, UBT is fine for 11 out of 14 professions as it may or may not matter during a fight, after the fight you're either dead, or able to remove it with Virus Scanners, 3 have to suffer with it even after they've died or even after they've won a fight. This should be changed for an even playing field post rebalancing. You and your "Docs have it soooo hard, nosrsly" monologue has no place here, especially since the majority of it is rhetorical nonsense from what only sounds like a bitter standpoint from not achieving what one would want to from life, be that life in AO or elsewhere.
Because clearly Docs are the only profession with active defences, everyone else just stands around while all of their toolset does the work for them. Docs are also the only profession to worry about debuffs, dontcha know, not to mention that Docs are the -only- profession out of FOURTEEN! that has to keep an eye on their NCU in an active battle environment, since Docs are the only guys to be crippled by someone sneezing near them. No, really. It's not as if currently docs defences, sans any heavy debuffing, are pretty much infinite either, nope not at all. Anyone and everyone can perk alpha you, we know this and we sympathise with you deeply. You're also the only profession that needs to keep a healthy stack of Free Movement stims on hand as you're the only profession not only be affected by stuns, but put in a deep mire by them too.
I surely hope the PvP rebalancing patch drags you up from the bottom of that ladder, I honestly have no idea how any of you have had the patience, least of all yourself, after having rolled at least -two- doctors, as if all the problems of one weren't enough.
Means, please ensure that this plight is responded to post haste, preferably in the next FWM.
PS: Grafter stop exaggerating. A 212 MA is no threat to an end game PvP Doc with a clue.
Yes, that's why everyone is always talking about how quick Doc vs Doc fights are. Oh, wait...
@Navy, crippled vs a Doctor, yes, NTs are, since once UBT has landed, you can forget an NT using any tools that would even remotely give the NT a shot at taking the doc down, short of a full agg NBS gank. I'm yet to meet a doctor that's worth me ditching my main defensive tool for 30 minutes for, however. Better to call in the usual 2-4 strong backup to drop the Doc.
Last edited by Hacre; Dec 17th, 2009 at 15:58:30.
Member of Spartans
Hacre/Solitus/Keeper/220/29/70 - Ninpopotamus/Solitus/NT/220/30/70 - Charmming/Opifex/Crat/220/30/70
Genius at work.
qq'ing doesn't make your arguement any more valid, Hacre. A doc UBT'd = docs have little to no staying power in comparision to every other UBT'd profession out there.
a 212 MA doesn't have pvp nanos? stuns? massive normal damage hits? wut aboot shens?
kay der. keep trying
in mass pvp OR battlestation type fights, when it's 1 doc vs 1 doc, yes they are quick.
srsly, Hacre. step back in the pvp game again before goin' any further. (and remember: any profession who knows their toolset can take down a doc.. people who complain about not being able to, are the same people who think the majority of teh game is smashing rocks for monsterparts).
Last edited by Grafter; Dec 17th, 2009 at 16:10:31.
RK1
"Send Pics Plz". Meta-Wha? Noodz plz. 83/8.
"Eye Makeshiz Foryou". Pimpin' Eng Of Doom. he's the SHIZ. 174/18.
"Jack Grafter Torrence". I Like To Boom Boom Booooom. 220/zomg. AI30!
RK2
"Perk Grafter Reset". 216/22. RK2's Retired Bukkake Doc. idle since 2007.
"Perk Graftor Reset". 142/15. RK2's Retired Pvp Doc idle since 2006.
My NM doc is major gimp and deserves to die.agreed on that.
holy nuts harce stop crying.
I am sure no one will care if pet profs got a nano that removes ubt from their pets when they are out of combat. Removing it in combat is not going to happen.
You saying NTs are crippled by UBT is about as bad as some traders saying ubt cripples them. You are not forced to use just one type of nuke, you have a few choice so make use of them. Just because you cant cast any said nano as fast as you want doesn't mean you don't have other choices and it doesn't mean your crippled.
About active defense, yes everyone has it. Doctors however have no passive defense like everyone else. Also amuse me by saying who suffers more from GTH then doctors?
UBT shouldn't be made removable in fight. FC already made that mistake with NSD and shouldn't make it again. Should pet profs get a nano or tool they can use on pets once out of a fight? yes. Crat debuffs should also be added to the list of things a virus scanner can remove.
Geez will you guys stop !
Ubt has ways to remove them in fight and that is ok. Adding more would be a mistake but I don't see many asking for that here. It's also not that hard to land, way easier then the AR vs NR check and the nanoskill vs nr ratio suggests. We had it landing to easy listed as a bug in our own doc forum for some time, if you'll remember. It's not easy-cheesy-click'n'land, but it is definately one of the easier to land nanos.
About the removal of ubt out of combat from pets....
I'm trying to lobby for all debuffs to be removeable out of combat and/or have their long ass durations reduced. Including crat debuffs and mp dominates. Loosing the abillity to allmost remove pets from pet professions until their ring recharges or ubt times is a price I'd gladly pay for that.
Deadly Whisper - RK1
too many alts for to little space
Let us all pray. Pray that someone will please help the poor nt´s. They are after all the hardest prof in ao to pvp with it seems. They even get their offense a little lowered by ubt from a profession that can´t even kill them.
So let us all hope that nt´´s get more love and.... wait a minute! Nt's ARE getting even more love
and docs get a healnerf. It makes sense. It really does...
Last edited by DrLithvium; Dec 17th, 2009 at 19:41:48.
Here's some views of an experienced pvp doc:
http://forums.anarchy-online.com/sho...ight=pvp+guide
Doc duel guide, not complete
And on and on.
My views on UBT? It's fine for 11 out of 14 professions, it's broken against pet professions. It lands 100%, can only be removed once every five minutes, and unremovable after a fight/drive by debuff. The same thing goes for pets and trader drains.
My views on doctors? They shouldn't have practically infinite nano (or at least be able chain heal practically infinitely), but their heal power is justified. Heals should be way more expensive on the nanocost (and malpractice then could come down in nanocost imo). Expensive heals are also good for pvm, in that support professions may actually be needed in teams. The fact that if you can't take 30k hp to zero during a stun duration/nano recharge or greatly GREATLY diminish/stop the healing altogether then the doctor becomes unkillable for all eternity is broken imo. Experienced docs are ridiculously hard to kill. Bad ones do get dominated, but then the same holds true for any profession.
Last edited by Mountaingoat; Dec 17th, 2009 at 21:31:08.
A duel guide. nice. When given infinite time with a lone target few professions are better than docs at survival. no one is arguing about that.
In a bs enviroment docs are very easy to kill when outnumbered 2-1. I dont feel like we on rk1 should suffer becuse people on rk2 dont know how to pvp.
If you find one doc on forums that says he can spam, dot and malp for infinite time I´l use creds transfer to rk2 and give you 100m.
The nanocost for malp without nanocost reducers is 2300
The nanocost for dr blaze dot is 2000.
The nanocost for BI is 1533
The nanocost on the most useful crat nuke is 756(Pink slip 85%nr check)
The cost the most useful MP nuke is 500
Even NT´s the masters of nanoregeneration&nanopool that we really shouldnt compare with have a nanocost of 1345 on their top SL nuke. (IU)
Furthermore:
The landing rate on green nubleets leeching vp is 1/1
The landing rate on medium skilled opponents is 1/3
The landing rate on skilled opponents is 1/5
The landing rate on very skilled endgame pvpers is maybe 1/10. In some cases like raged enfs much lower.
The nanopool of a doc twink with nano in mind is around 20k maybe.
With a basic knowledge in mathematics you see were this is going...
A doc twink will totally **** a green leecher target in bs to pieces. Facing a opponent
that has worked on his toon the doc cant do much.
How dare you even suggest that docs should have a further increase in nanocost given thoose numbers?
Last edited by DrLithvium; Dec 17th, 2009 at 22:44:34.
That's just a blatant outright lie. I have 2650 ish NR and ubt lands about 1/3 tries when uwos isn't up. If uwos is up then yeah it's more like 1/10. But MOST profs don't have that much NR in the first place. Most have abt 2.3k ish.
So apparently all you base your landing rate on is enfs who got 4k NR.
2 vs. 1's are supposed to be hard.
Lower the cost on all dots and malp significantly, but jack the cost of heals way up. Practically infinite healing barring GTH/NSD shouldn't be.
And there's something stopping you from using AS? No.
Its not a factor of me lying or not. Its actual numbers. And they cant lie.The attack rating and land rating isnt over 2200 for a ubt.
UBT ar is based on 50% Psy modi. and 50% bio met.
Lets say a doc has 2350 in bm. A pretty high number. That is 2350*0.5 = 1175
And lets say a doc has 2050 in Psy mod. Also a pretty high number. 2050*0,5=1025
That is 2200 in ubt attack rating and that is counting with high numbers. I dare say most doc dont have that much and Psy mod and BM. and the nanoresist check is 100%.
If youre getting ubt landed on you so much you must be lying
about your numbers. That the only explaination.
By most people you mean average skilled players and they have landing rate of 1/3. sounds about right with my calculations.
Agreed.It should be hard. But being probably the slowest killing prof in ao. We should have decent defense. Several other professions have better survival rate than docs when facing 2 opponents at the same time.
With no cc tools and low damage we must have some sort
of debuff. A profession that solely rely on a active defense must slow down their opponents damage to make room for some damage dealing of their own. (dots and nukes)
Ubt isnt lowering much damage atm considering most damage is done by specials and perks. If we should have a good passive defense we wouldnt have to rely on ubt so much.
From level 60 and up docs have been using debuffs. Whenever there is a threat moving towards the team or you. UBT the first thing you do. Its only late in the docs life that we can heal more damage than we can prevent.
Last edited by DrLithvium; Dec 18th, 2009 at 03:15:08.
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