Late-week update on LLTS

[Darkbane]

I agree, better min damage on melee for more consistent damage, better potential damage on ranged.

I like the idea of scopes being useless for melee/ma - that would be appropriate. Give non-ma ma users something to compensate though, something like the vision enhancer but with increased init penalties for ranged and reduced for physical (and maybe melee too?).

Add a small crit boost to the rage line of nanos (1-3%) would compensate for enforcers to some extent, that ontop of flurry should be pretty decent. Don't know what you'd do for adventurers though...

And as a 1he user, I'd vote to get rid of the HW contribution to AR too (or at least reduce how much it contributes), not related I know, but...

[Phione]

If today FC come up with a complete melee weapon reformation plan, and then make Scope useless for melee users, I have no problem with that, but currently, that's not the case.

[________________TOFU]

why does primary healing class in this game (doctors) deserver a higher crit chance then an enforcer (tank class) using melee weopons? ( i know enforcers can use flury but since flurry in its current state is so shorterm it isnt near as powerful as a LLTS imo)
if you nerf LLTS for melee a doctor can get a higher "longterm" critical chance then an enforcer using a beam. hmm enforcers are suppossed to tank hold agro "to protect the healer" aka doctor.
i think they need to remove critical % from all current scopes completely, give the scopes other benefits like attack rating or ams or something. the fact that all proffessions (other then martial artist) have the exact same crit chance is absurd.
a non healing tank class like soldiers/enfs should be given higher chance to crit then lets say a doctor.
instead of using the scopes to give this bonus how about making the bonus amount dtermined by proffession and lvl. for instance a lvl 100 soldier would automaticly have 7% crit bonus and he would be given a 15% crit bonus at lvl 200. the same would be done for enforcers 15% crit chance at lvl 200 automatic. since these 2 proffessions were designed to do dmg and tank they would get a larger bonus then fixers/doctors/traders/crats/nts ect.. the ma also would need a lower bonus since they have the best crit buff alrdy.
this would lower the amount of criticals on mobs since you wouldnt have the full crit bonus until lvl 200.
the main point of this post is the max possible crit chance should be higher or lower based on proffession, not on a universal item that all proffessions get equally.

[__________Lucid Flow]

Originally posted by Phione
"Average damage" for melee users is, for the last time, as low as it can be, with pathetic crit. We don't have high min damage weapon, we don't have high max damage weapon, and we don't have high crit weapon.

"For the last time?" Maybe if you read my post, you would have noticed that I was saying it should be that way, and Funcom will attest to that because they posted before that was their original intent.

I never came close to saying it IS this way.

[__________Lucid Flow]

Originally posted by Phione
If today FC come up with a complete melee weapon reformation plan, and then make Scope useless for melee users, I have no problem with that, but currently, that's not the case.

Funcom needs to reform all weapons ANYWAY. Obviously, some weapons are supposed to be better then others, but the excess of Crap weapons in this game is getting to excessive.

A long time ago, Funcom promised a "revamp" of weapons in the game. That never happened.

[Anonymous]

I haven't read this thread in it's entirety, so I apologize if I'm regurgitating someone else's idea, but here it is:

Why not put a hard cap on crit chance?

MAs rely heavilly on crits and so to put a cap of say, 30% chance in the game will not gimp them. After UVC they still have 9% crit chance to work with before they cap out. So putting in a +6 VE almost them at 30%.

In contrast, a ranged user could never get up that high anyway. Even with a 15% scope, 2 globes of clarity, Mop and TTS running, you'd get up to 28%.

The difference is that to do so, you would have to twink your character with hundreds of millions worth of gear to approcah what an MA can get to, and than get outside buffs on top of it. The MA on the other hand can get 30% crit chance self-buffed (after the scope is on) and would not have to spend huge amounts of money. Ie, it is much easier for an MA to get an appropriate crit chance.

The scopes retain value and MAs can still get good high crit chances (can't complain about almost 1/3 crit self-buffed). However, they can't get up to 40%, which I think approcahes the unbalancing shottie-MA levels that FC seems to want to nerf.

[_____________Condaan]

Here's what I don't get about the idiots calling for nerfs on other professions. Do you people have a rule against teaming with Melee characters? If not, why in the hell would you want us nerfed?

This is really getting out of hand. Some combinations of items and buffs appear to funcom to be overpowered in some situations. How about, we see a list of those situations, and the combination of buffs/items that the person had equipped. Then get an 'official' stance on what kind of crit percentage is 'too high' in that situation. Then MAYBE we can come up with a useful solution.

Example,
I'm a level 167 MA.
Fighting newbie leets, I crit ~80% of my punches with a 8% LLTS equipped and no crit buffs, etc.

DEAR GOD, LLTS ARE OVERPOWERED!

How about this...

Explain the situation that this developer observed, lets understand it precisely...then, and only then, can anyone form a valid opinion on what, if anything, is the problem.

I just can't believe how quickly people jump on the bandwagon to nerf other classes. Do you think that if all classes are nerfed enough, it will actually make you good players? It won't.

Did anyone else ever notice that the REALLY good players, the ones whose ability you respect the most, NEVER ask for nerfs of other classes unless it's something that completely debilitates a game? And in those cases, it's the people from the overpowered class that actually have the most reasonable suggestions for 'fixing'. As opposed to what normally happens, which is the teeming masses of whiners convince the underinformed game companies that a Nerf is good, and justifited, because XYZ pwned me the other day. Or because ABC can solo better than me. Or because 123 can do this, and this, and this.

Here's a hearty /finger for all of you poor fools who continue to call for nerfs of other classes, simply because you, the player, aren't any good at yours.

Condaan

[OneManArmy]

Originally posted by Condaan
Here's what I don't get about the idiots calling for nerfs on other professions. Do you people have a rule against teaming with Melee characters? If not, why in the hell would you want us nerfed?

This is really getting out of hand. Some combinations of items and buffs appear to funcom to be overpowered in some situations. How about, we see a list of those situations, and the combination of buffs/items that the person had equipped. Then get an 'official' stance on what kind of crit percentage is 'too high' in that situation. Then MAYBE we can come up with a useful solution.

Example,
I'm a level 167 MA.
Fighting newbie leets, I crit ~80% of my punches with a 8% LLTS equipped and no crit buffs, etc.

DEAR GOD, LLTS ARE OVERPOWERED!

How about this...

Explain the situation that this developer observed, lets understand it precisely...then, and only then, can anyone form a valid opinion on what, if anything, is the problem.

I just can't believe how quickly people jump on the bandwagon to nerf other classes. Do you think that if all classes are nerfed enough, it will actually make you good players? It won't.

Did anyone else ever notice that the REALLY good players, the ones whose ability you respect the most, NEVER ask for nerfs of other classes unless it's something that completely debilitates a game? And in those cases, it's the people from the overpowered class that actually have the most reasonable suggestions for 'fixing'. As opposed to what normally happens, which is the teeming masses of whiners convince the underinformed game companies that a Nerf is good, and justifited, because XYZ pwned me the other day. Or because ABC can solo better than me. Or because 123 can do this, and this, and this.

Here's a hearty /finger for all of you poor fools who continue to call for nerfs of other classes, simply because you, the player, aren't any good at yours.

Condaan

amen to that!


....as for the suggested nerf said:
As stated in the beginning, the FC representative posted the suggestion that LLTS was to have an enourmous melee init penalty. Why shouldn't melee users be able to crit as much as ranged? Melee users are allready at a disadvantage both with range and number of available specials. Flurry? Sure it helps abit, but I have to wait smegging 5 minutes between each use, while ranged users can use it constantly.

Who will be the losers of this? melee users. Plain and simple.

[OneManArmy]

oh, since we're talking about balancing the LLTS..... how about making them available to 'everyone'? Not just the peeps with 100mill+creds?

When they first stopped dropping, you said you made them stop, due to they were unbalancing. What I never understood, is why you left them in the game. Or why you didn't nerf them back then?

[_________Disciple092]

i havent read all 11 pages of this thread so sorry if i repeat anyone else.......

Why are u trying to destroy the melee classes?huge melee penalty on llts so many MA's would use guns all the time ,then make UVC have ranged init penalty so MA's cant use ranged
so what is happening is that everyone can still use llts's except MA's........not that i know of any enf that would use guns or high lv engis for that matter all melee users are gonna get screwed while nothing happens to ranged.......that BS!

theres NO WAY an MA should be able to crit buff another class to crit with ranged while he cannot buff himself in a similar way.....make MoP have a huge ranged init penalty then so that while the melee classes still lose out it wont be by such a large margin.

and then what about the Adventures who are designed to excell in BOTH MELEE AND RANGED believe it or not i used to see Ryokucha at title 6 using both a 1 handed shotgun AND a rider executioner at the same time,she got tons of respect for originality...but thats what adventurers are all about...not after a nerf like that
then theres the issue of boss monsters and GM event chars with insane evades that only can be hit when u crit them......why not just erase the 14.5 patch then cause all those bosses that u seem to think are so wonderfull will be as useless as 95% of the weapons in this game


If the issue is that people crit too much and get xp too fast then increase the xp needed to lv dont screw up the entire game with these lame experiments or yours,thats what beta's are for...erm wait...this is a beta

Ya know AC2 and SWG have beta's too and they are free and even fun i hear

[Nomius]

I first read the post made by Cz then made a reply with out reading the 11 pages Disciple092. Then I did read the 11 pages, and deleted my own top of my head first post, as it was a complet bumer after reading the thread .

But I did notice that 5 pages of the thread is by Lucid Flow quoting other pepol and repeating w00t he had said allready.

Still I have to say OMG this nerf is a bad idea. Guess theres no stoping it IMO all that needs to be done is making the old llts mission rewards again

[_____________Cloudehxx]

Attempt to divert discussion.




OMG!!!!

[aaronb]

Originally posted by Disciple092

theres NO WAY an MA should be able to crit buff another class to crit with ranged while he cannot buff himself in a similar way.....make MoP have a huge ranged init penalty then so that while the melee classes still lose out it wont be by such a large margin.

Honest question here: can you not cast MoP on yourself if you don't cast your self-only line on yourself?

[Anonymous]

I'll say it again, make a crit cap. That way even melee users can still use scopes, and we eliminate the 40% crit MAs with shotties. Any MA who can't survive with 30-33% crit chance is not a very good MA.

And once again, you have to WORK to get the money for the items. Don't expect them to fall in your lap. To say that you can never get the money for them means that either a) you're too low lvl atm or b) you aren't trying hard enough.

[schma]

I think you're moving in the right direction, Cz. The change needs to be fleshed out more, though, to catch those who fall "outside"

Other melee users need something to help them out; improving the flurry sounds like a plan.

Other professions that use MA (engies) need some compensation. (Engies need lots of love.. ).

All the weapons which use bugged inits need to be fixed.

Equip time on bows need to be lowered, and buffs for bows should be implemented.

The LLTS needs to be available somehow in game (don't care if it's a very rare drop, as long as there's a slight chance of new scopes entering the game somehow)

.. and prolly more. There's some really good posts among all the spam here.

The point is to remove the possibilty of stacking up very high crit chances, especially when using weapons that may not be designed for use with a very high chance of critical hits, much like the original change when the UVC line was restricted to self only. Makes sense to me.

I think MA's will find they still do the most damage in PvM, even after moving down from a 15% scope to an 8% scope.

[_________Disciple092]

Originally posted by aaronb


Honest question here: can you not cast MoP on yourself if you don't cast your self-only line on yourself?

Sure i can but why should i need to cast a 7% crit on myself...
crits are the MA's specialty its dumb that any MA would be forced to use his watered down crit other nano if he choses to use a gun or in my case a crossbow.....

Guns arent an item that a true MA would use so those that are still loyal to the class have used bow's only prob is all the MA bows suk so we are forced to use the reet tech crossbow which BTW is 100% bowskill based...its ranged init tho and even tho most MA's use only for alphas it or if rooted by a long ranged enemy,it would ruin so many of us if we couldnt use

all this LLTS nerf is gonna do is make all the ranged peeps stronger against us melee guys and even further cripple engi's

there are 2 crit classes in AO agents(ranged) and MA(melee) maybe then MoP should only benefit melee and TTS should only benefit ranged...since you gun guys have llts's all to your selves soon

[_______________Sware]

It is very illogical imo that MAs take advantage of their critting ability with fire arms anyways. I think some weapons should have proffesion specified penalties and mods.

[_____________Niraxtc]

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How about saying that Flurry of Blows and the MA self crit buffs won't be usable with ranged weapons (except bows) due to a big Ranged Init penalty, and the LLTS won't be usable with close combat weapons, bare handed attacks and bows due to a big penalty on Melee and Physical Init?
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good idea

[____________Dominata]

Make the MA's crit buffs melee only and have the LLTS crit not stackable with those buffs. That way non MA's can still enjoy their scopes and MA's who likes to supplement their damage with ranged weapons can also still use scopes.

That way MA's get to keep their crit buffs for melee weapons and fists and when using ranged weapons they can use scopes or a VS like the rest of us.

LLTS could easily be made to be able to not acknowledge or maybe override certain crit buffs since such information overload could cause synaptic shutdown of the users brain and permanently damage or even kill him.

[_____________Omnitax]

BUMP!!!

Great ide Dominata!!!