opifex passive genome defenses

[Sterva]

100 AAD is nice, but faced against the insane min damages people have now days, it isn't quite enough, especially compared to some of the other breed's genomes.

Just sayin'.

[Gatester]

Opifex static defense is more than 100 over other professions. I wouldn't mind soli, trox, and opi having a static boost equal to nanomages but this 100 aad boost is better than solitus and atrox, and makes Opifex the evade alternative (over atrox FINALLY).

On another note, how much would you boost aad instead? Do you think double current would be better and still fair? You could be correct, but I think anymore would make certain non-evaders too defensive if they go Opifex.

[McKnuckleSamwich]

what does min dmg have to do with it if they can't hit you?

I agree it *could* be higher, but, don't forget that if you are unperkable to opifexs, soli's and NM's, there need to be a check, IE, atrox.

Where opi's *could* be unperkable all the time to most breeds, there should be substantial effort made to make atrox be the go-to breed for achieving the kill on evade breeds.

in other words:

Atrox always has an AAO perk to use against the unperkable
Opisex is always unperkable to everyone else
Soli can outheal the atrox perk
NM can damage to nano the atrox perk

Realistically there needs to be a check/balance system for everything.

This is why I've reasoned that Atrox needs a good AAO perk sub 207 as well, as the check and balance vs DOF/limber, which, currently has no check.

[Sterva]

what does min dmg have to do with it if they can't hit you?

I'm glad you ask!

If you get hit for an FA, and the weapon only does 25 damage each bullet, and you evade 90% of the clip, then your evades have served you well, and you don't take that much damage.

Run the same scenario again, but increase the min damage to 2k, and evading 90% of the clip suddenly isn't as great, since you still get capped, and there's literally no advantage evading 90% of the clip instead of none of it.

Same goes for regular hits, and any other kind of hit. If min damage is very high, then you have to evade a higher percentage of the hits for evades to matter.

[Esqi]

Regular hits should hurt, problem with them for all to long is that they didnt

[McKnuckleSamwich]

I'm glad you ask!

If you get hit for an FA, and the weapon only does 25 damage each bullet, and you evade 90% of the clip, then your evades have served you well, and you don't take that much damage.

Run the same scenario again, but increase the min damage to 2k, and evading 90% of the clip suddenly isn't as great, since you still get capped, and there's literally no advantage evading 90% of the clip instead of none of it.

Same goes for regular hits, and any other kind of hit. If min damage is very high, then you have to evade a higher percentage of the hits for evades to matter.

this only works for FA and burst.

For melee profs, there is no "90% of..." either Fast attack lands, or it doesn't. brawl either lands, or it doesn't.

I can't remember what other point I was going to make.

Ohya, the second part of my post is far more important.

Checks and balances:

Theres 3 perks per line. Two breed lines. The alpha should be offensive, with a SUITABLE defensive option available on the secondary line.

It should be that for every perk availalbe, there is a suitable counter in the opposite line, with all breeds being the same GENERAL concept.

[PhoenixOfAges]

Where opi's *could* be unperkable all the time to most breeds, there should be substantial effort made to make atrox be the go-to breed for achieving the kill on evade breeds.

Being Opi doesn't make a char hard to hit, upperkable, etc. having a butt load of other things due to being an evader prof does. Right now there is nothing short of a bit higher evades from high agility and sense to help an Opi avoid hits. With the proposed changes an Opi gets at best an extra 100 AAD. Items like 2.1k AAD grid armour plus solid prof evades have infinitely more to do with an Opi fixer being a bitch to hit than the fact it's Opi.

Also as I said in your thread before don't try to bring in prof or prof group perks into the concept of balance for breed ones (Dance of Fools and Limber are Acrobat prof group perks, not Opi breed ones). Breed perks and advantages should balance against breed perks and advantages and that's all. If a certain prof is giving another certain prof a hard time then the changes need to be with the profs, not the breed.

Then be aware last I heard while this rebalance is game wide in regards to PvP it is only suppose to help each prof deal with other profs better. There although will still be no aimed one on one balancing. It's still going to be group vs group PvP balanced so if on your own you can't hit prof A very well get help from other profs with buffs or such that would help (crats, traders and the like).

[McKnuckleSamwich]

...don't try to bring in prof or prof group perks into the concept of balance for breed ones ...
... while this rebalance is game wide in regards to PvP it is only suppose to help each prof deal with other profs better.

huh?

I think you just argued yourself into a corner, then got turned on your head, cuz this doesn't make sense.

Heres some food for thought:

How is getting 100 AAD for 4 hours any better or worse than 500 AAO for 10 seconds?

A quick calculation will shed some light:

100AAD*3600s=360 000 effective evade seconds
500 AAO*10s = 5000 effective AR seconds.

Ok, you're right, my suggestion is underpowered, I should jack up my request by about 72 times. How about 500 AR for 12 minutes?

[Kinkstaah]

Run the same scenario again, but increase the min damage to 2k, and evading 90% of the clip suddenly isn't as great, since you still get capped, and there's literally no advantage evading 90% of the clip instead of none of it.

This is where having more HP is good.

[Louderer789]

100 AAD seems pretty nice for a static buff, I mean CiB/DS static is only 300. However I think most of the people salivating over the opifex passive defense buff are semi-evaders like Agents, Enforcers, Traders. True evaders on the other hand, are looking for perks to fill in their weaknesses - healing from soli/trox, damage mitigation from nano, offense from nano/trox, rather than a 2-4% increase in an unreliable defense.

People wanted Opifex to truly be the best evader, and with this perk and Wit changed, Opifex really is. It's not FC's fault if the classes clamoring hardest for evades are not the evade classes.

[PhoenixOfAges]

huh?

I think you just argued yourself into a corner, then got turned on your head, cuz this doesn't make sense.

The AAD one lasts four hours, and the AAO one less than a minute, your point is? AAD as far as we know is a kind of percentage multiplier on our evades. Then it's just 100 AAD, if 100 AAD was such a big deal the 2.1k on GA IV would make it so it's completely impossible to hit a GA4 fixer, ever. Although guess what, they do get hit and perked, it's just harder to do so than various other profs. As AAD is apparently a percentage modifier unless you have solid evades AAD on it's own doesn't really help that much.

The opi one lasts a long time since they are only giving 100 AAD. AAO apparently adds straight onto your AR from your skill levels. So if they are going to give a sizable amount of AAO they certainly can't make it last very long.

Based on what people have been able to figure out 100 AAD would be about a 10% bonus to evades when on full def. So the opi AAD line gives about a 1% to 10% bonus to evades perhaps only if at full def and maybe less if not. If you're a doc which has in general crap evades that's not going to do much of anything. For an evader that will help but it's not that big of a deal as they already have perks that give more and perk actions that give a lot more. So even if it's on an evade prof that 100 AAD at 207 or 220 is hardly significant and there's already items like the Xan defense token board and the DB bracer that give as much or almost as much.

1500 AAO though can amount to a sizable bonus. At 207 depending on the prof and build that may be up to about a 100% increase in your AR for its duration. At 220 for a prof with good AR it's still about a 50% bonus which is most certainly significant. Even 500 AAO gives a healthy bonus, particularly to profs with weak AR since it's added straight on rather than being a percentage calculation like AAD.



Then you are the one that keeps bring up prof or prof group perk actions when discussing breed perks and using them as a reason why trox needs AAO earlier and such. If you're so worked up about those and think they are so troublesome go ahead and discuss it, just not in the breed perk threads as they have no place there.

I mentioned that they are only trying to improve each profs ability to deal with other profs somewhat better but PvP balance is still group vs group as that is their overall target. You evidently though are talking about straight one one one balance when discussing how one char on their own supposedly won't be able to deal with this on their own. Or how there needs to be checks and balances so everyone has an even chance against everyone else. That's not what they're aiming for.

[Soosis]

The AAD...snip.

You dont seem to know at all how AAD works. And at lvls when fixer might use GAIV, they wont get perked, Ever, with perks that check AR vs. Evades.

Too much "wrong" in the long post, so Ill just snip it and ccl.

OP:

If you icrease the AAD to say...constant 200, that would give certain profs too much static def.

[Automaticq]

On another note, how much would you boost aad instead? Do you think double current would be better and still fair? You could be correct, but I think anymore would make certain non-evaders too defensive if they go Opifex..

What about non AR profession with 1500 ar from MR if they go trox? If 100 or 200 aad is that much of a problem for non-evaders i dont know what is 1500 ar from MR...

[Gatester]

What about non AR profession with 1500 ar from MR if they go trox? If 100 or 200 aad is that much of a problem for non-evaders i dont know what is 1500 ar from MR...

First off, I am just going to say a non-AR profession is still not going to perk an evade profession with Mongo Rage.

Now do you really want another Mongo Rage rant going on? Simple enough, if you are complaining about Mongo Rage with its future change you no longer have the qualifications to make suggestions or complaints about any tool in AO.

It is a chain perk which means you have to use it directly after Mongo Fury is used, and then you have a 3second execution time. That means you have 3 seconds to use a 1 second CiB Perk on the True evade professions, 1 sec Bio Cocoon on the 4 profs utilizing it, Shutdown Skills on a trader, and NS2 on an NT. For agents, doctors, and soldiers they will deal with MR the exact same way as they do now, except it will be even easier to setup a defense and prepare for Mongo Rage.

Another point is that double AAO stacking on perks will be removed, so Mongo Rage does not guarantee perks landing against anyone.

Now assuming the player using MR is not rooted or snared by one of the 20 new root/snare perks coming out, is not stunned, or the other player reacts with a tool with nearly the same or better recharge that completely nullifies Mongo Rage or the perks used, it might result in the other player getting killed, or drained/perked with support perks.

So who gets screwed by MR? Meta-Physicists. Fix their sacrificial shielding or give them a reactionary tool and then Mongo Rage will be completely fair and balanced (if not ineffective) against every prof in AO.


I am most likely going Opifex on my enforcer to gain an extra 150 static def, and my setup will likely push it even further than that. In fact, every prof except for shade, MA, crat, and fixer can benefit tremendously from the static boost while those 4 can make use of a spec/regular blocker tool and greatly enhanced CiB defenses.

[Sterva]

this only works for FA and burst.

For melee profs, there is no "90% of..." either Fast attack lands, or it doesn't. brawl either lands, or it doesn't.

I can't remember what other point I was going to make.

Uh, no. The principle is exactly the same for all damage. If the minimum damage is high for any kind of damage, then you have to avoid it more often for evades to be an effective form of defense.

Currently, min damage is high on most kinds of damage, melee, ranged, and magical, so evades are forced to be higher to allow in less %'s of damage.

And the point of this thread is that the other genomes offer more defense benefits than the opifex lines do. This is as close as it gets to hard fact in AO.

[PhoenixOfAges]

You dont seem to know at all how AAD works. And at lvls when fixer might use GAIV, they wont get perked, Ever, with perks that check AR vs. Evades.

Too much "wrong" in the long post, so Ill just snip it and ccl.

OP:

If you icrease the AAD to say...constant 200, that would give certain profs too much static def.

Let me guess, you're part of the group that still insists that AAD is just evades + AAD = def, right? If not how about explaining it. Then GAIV fixers can be hit and perked, just don't expect to do it that well, especially while their def perks are up and perhaps not without help. A big part of their whole function is to avoid being hit either due to evades or roots and snares. So if they were readily hit one way or the other we may as well write the whole prof off.

[Cryfreman]

as a point of interest what would the differance be in opi and nano evades?

[Louderer789]

138.

http://www.lotekk.net/ao/trickle/index.php

[Sterva]

138.

http://www.lotekk.net/ao/trickle/index.php

That might not be* a full picture. There's more trickle down afforded by perk lines, and at some levels, by the equip you can get into.

[Sterva]

The reason I raise this concern, is because Means announced too early that there will be breed changes.

Now, who really cares if the breed perks are balanced? You'll simply be able to choose the (in most cases, obvious) best breed, and be happy with it.

I'll switch breeds if I have to, but I'd much rather see opifex stay competitive as a logical choice for evade based classes.