Friday with Means - November 20th, 2009 - Nanomage says "Wut?"

[Ayria]

My health is slowly declining that doesn't mean I'm planning my funeral at 22.

[Mastablasta]

And read the first post, its a good thing the community is involved, passionate and commited , unless of course we , god forbid, happen to disagree with them , then its a whole different story.

Maybe if you disagreed, rather than just say "lol u dumb" but then, what kind of a troll would you be if you actually made sense?

[IHaveHugeNick]

Maybe if you disagreed, rather than just say "lol u dumb" but then, what kind of a troll would you be if you actually made sense?

Sorry, i no longer care enough to write an essay each time they propose something silly - perhaps one day will join your gang of retired trolls that stopped making any sense in 2006.

Besides, as proven in this thread, some things are so deeply wrong, you can make an impact with a simple one-liner.

Honestly, I'm ecstatic about breed change possibility...and it has nothing to do with PvP since I hate AO's PvP anyways, it's just purely aesthetic in my mind. I originally rolled Autohead as a trox, but changed my mind and decided to go soli for the "all-roundedness"...well once I got past a certain level threshold I started wishing I would have stayed trox just because I think they look better/cooler ...but being whatever higher level I was at the time I REALLY didn't want to reroll just because I didn't like how my character looked, so I lived with it...until now.

So, if breed change ever does make it to live as now "promised" by Means, I'll be going from soli to trox, but don't worry, I won't have MR perked since I'll rarely be PvP'ing anyway.

See, it's not all about cookie cutter PvP winmode for everyone.

I see your point, but they are not proposing this for aesthetics - the reasoning is coming entirely from pvp cookie cutter winmode positions , and it also happens to be wrong. I don't think anyone would care if you could change just visual appearence of your character from atrox to solitus.

[Sheffsammy]

FWIW, my opinion is that it should be a one-off. After the balancing, if you feel your character has been broken by the changes, you get a one-time breed change. I don't feel like it should be available at any time to anyone with the money or creds to do so. Breed choice should mean something.

I don't see how it's any different from the full IPR you usually offer when there are huge changes.

This sounds like the smartest idea to me, though it makes sense that if FC are going to invest a coders time into it, they will also try make more of it than a one off. I do hope there is a *really* high cost on it after the initial free one though, so people use it as an option of last resort after a lot of consideration.

[Xkeeper]

well, since FC is filled with brilliant ideas, add a female atrox, why not kill the game background a little more?

[Ebondevil]

This "Means" Cola

P.S. Sorry, couldn't resist

[tweeeek]

would it be possible to update the breed descriptions in character creation when this is done, include a updated version of how the breeds perform, for froobs, people with sl and people with ai, include what the ai perks do for each prof( not the numbers but the general idea). i got this idea from IHaveHugeNick actually, he has a good point that we have no clue about breeds when we starts, but unlike him i think breed should matter a hell of a lot, and that people jsut need to be informed when they start playing.

oh also update the prof descriptions when you are done tinkering with the perks/nanos ect, seeing as the current dev team is pretty in touch with whats going on ingame you could include things like:

general description.(basically what you have now but updated)
special abilities.(cool nanos/perks that profs get, like fp for example)
defenses.( what the prof has for defense, eg heals,ams, bioshielding line)
offenses.( preferred weapons, perks, nanos)
ease of use/ learning curve ( how easy the prof is to use and maintain, also solo abilities and how useful it is in a team)

include sl/ai/le things just mark them with (shadow lands) or whatever.
don't be afraid to go into more detail then there is now, in fact a full page would be about perfect, ao is a complex game and it should show, this would also be a step towards making the beginning of the game easier without handing people anything on a platter.

[foulbat]

Originally Posted by Means
Breed perks are currently not "trivial" buffs of little value...it really matters what breed you choose in terms of building your character. The team and I believe that this is part of what makes AO fun...the choice and determination to try out alternate setups to try and push the boundaries of what is possible.

agree

Originally Posted by Means
In a sci-fi world why shouldn't breed change be an option?...this is also likely to be an option heading into the future for AO.

woot?

first u say breed choose matters

and ...turn around and say breed change "every time" would be available in future?

so...if breed change is available "every time" ....the first breed choose wouldn't matter

cmon means

(plz don't delete my post, I've said this already and someone deleted it...but why?)

[Iamkama]

I think what he means, is that yes, breed choice is a major factor in your toon.

From how easy it is to cast nanos, equip certain armor/symbs, playsyle, looks, whatever the reason.

But I think what he's also saying, is that if you decide later on that you've chosen the wrong breed and wish to change your characters, breed, then you may do so, without having to re-roll your toon and go through the gruesome leveling process all over again.

Idk, this addition to what we can all do to our characters affects me little. I'm happy with the breeds I have chosen for my toons.

Although, we will wait and see, the perk changes and what not may alter my opinion later.

[Technogen]

I believe the most balanced way to do this would be a 2 step process.

On the day balance changes to live, everyone would get 1 breed change. From then on every New Year everyone would get 1 breed change, they would not stack on the amount you can get but there would be no other way to get one.

This would let players be able to change their breed to how they feel fit while making it so it 1, doesnt mess up the database with lots of breed changes, and 2 isn't an when ever I feel like it thing.

[Autohead]

I see your point, but they are not proposing this for aesthetics - the reasoning is coming entirely from pvp cookie cutter winmode positions , and it also happens to be wrong. I don't think anyone would care if you could change just visual appearence of your character from atrox to solitus.

Oh I know, was just expressing why I support it.

[Xortdan]

I hope this breed change will include a full ipr as part of the process and not use any full ipr you previously saved for later use.

[-Plexor-]

Means, will you have to unequip items to breed change like you have to when you IPR? If not then people will end up changing to a breed that can get all Alpha symbs in for instance, then change to their breed of choice, which will take away some of the downside of choosing a breed.

[Hacre]

Means, will you have to unequip items to breed change like you have to when you IPR? If not then people will end up changing to a breed that can get all Alpha symbs in for instance, then change to their breed of choice, which will take away some of the downside of choosing a breed.

Which is why, if the breed changes they make are all around perks instead of being inherent to the breed itself, it should be one time only, without a need to unequip everything.

I've said in another post, I forget where it is, that if FC are going to make perk changes that make a prof+breed combo a no brainer, which the current proposals will for a great many, it shouldn't be the user base that's penalised for it.

As for alpha symbiants, all breeds can get them in. They're no different in requirements than regular 300s and all breeds have been able to get those in for a long while. Trox still has the hardest job, but it's far from impossible.

[tweeeek]

Which is why, if the breed changes they make are all around perks instead of being inherent to the breed itself, it should be one time only, without a need to unequip everything.

I've said in another post, I forget where it is, that if FC are going to make perk changes that make a prof+breed combo a no brainer, which the current proposals will for a great many, it shouldn't be the user base that's penalised for it.

As for alpha symbiants, all breeds can get them in. They're no different in requirements than regular 300s and all breeds have been able to get those in for a long while. Trox still has the hardest job, but it's far from impossible.

regardless you should have to unequip everything, just because at 220 every breed can do everything doesn't make it the same at every level, its better safe then sorry tbh.

and if you are gona do something as big as a breed change taking off your geear shouldnt bother you

[whitey]

I'm quite glad a breed change is becoming an option - for reasons many people have already mentioned.

For example, a few years ago I rolled an Atrox doctor (pre-LE) - when melee BoB atroxes were epic DD. Then, there were MASSIVE changes to all profs and made breed choice very important (in particular, NT's and Doctors, and some others). This totally destroyed the whole point of my toon, as it was a poor healer, poor tank, and poor DD compared to other pistol doctors.

So I'm glad I will finally be able to breed change my doc.

[IHaveHugeNick]

Yeah breed resets without having to unequip everything would completely ruin tl1-tl5 balance...or what's left of it.

[Troxxor]

As for alpha symbiants, all breeds can get them in. They're no different in requirements than regular 300s and all breeds have been able to get those in for a long while. Trox still has the hardest job, but it's far from impossible.

Yep. As a player who only gets an hour or two at a time to play, this is part of my reason for /reroll from atrox to solitus. As solitus it's easier to get top gear on & probably always will be.

Tbh I never thought FC would introduce a breed change, esspecially after a recent petition of mine. My original main, Bokken, is a 203 MA who I never play; I petitioned to see if I could get him de-levelled to 200 so he'd at least be useful for something... blitzing handy ql items

I got a reply from good old GM Sirsalad, saying "Sorry we don't do character manipulations". I sent an e-mail off to support enquiring about this & had a response from another GM (thank you for taking the time btw ), apparently it's "policy"... There's a consequence for me choosing to level him up past 203.

At the time I was obviously disappointed, but could see the reasons.

I don't have the heart to delete that character, sooo many good memories of times & friends that've now moved on. But I'm saddened to be left with him just taking up a slot, gathering dust, basicaly looking after my shop (oh btw that reminds me; Mail term in shop building pls!)

Breed change to me sounds like a pretty significant character manipulation though... OK I see the need for breed change & that it's driven by FC's decisions, not the players, so it's not fair that player suffers because of it. Hats off to FC for acknowledging this & giving breed change... I know the FC of old wouldn't have done so.

Anyway, getting to the point; what I'm wondering about is, going forward this does seem to be a bit of a relaxation of the policy towards character changes and what will this lead too?...

A new paid or free service; if you've got a lvl 220 toon of prof x, can you create (in a new or the same slot) another mini-you toon of prof x at lvl 174?

Moving toons between your accounts?

Dual logging characters on the same account if you have 2 paid accounts?

It'd be nice to get some feedback on this kind of thing & what FC deems as acceptable & what's likely to never happen. Lol, does poor old Bokken have a future?

----------------------

regardless you should have to unequip everything, just because at 220 every breed can do everything doesn't make it the same at every level, its better safe then sorry tbh.

and if you are gona do something as big as a breed change taking off your geear shouldnt bother you

Agreed

If it's possible to purchase further breed changes I think a long real time lock would also be called for too. Like changing side.

Changing breed should not be something to be done on a whim, even if you have resources to burn.

Also, no to name changes... or if you must do them relating to breed change, make it so you have to change it to something similar, so Troxxor could become Roxxor or Solinuker could be Nanonuker, etc etc.

[DocJones]

Heyas,

honestly, i think a breed change is the wrong path we are possibly going down to. Sounds like a cookiecutter option. I have to admit, it sounds harsh to have onle two options (reroll OR breed change), but in my opinion, all those new breed/perk balancing stuffs is a step in the wrong direction. Personally, i think you CAN'T have a game with thousands of items, four races, 13 professions and 6 expansions balanced in any way.

I'd say a big "NO" to breed change and balancing that "requires" breed changes. And a big "NONO" to buyable breed changes.

regards
/Z

[Tanana]

I don't agree with having a charge for any breed change option, if they do actually get in game.

The way I see it is that changing breed should be a last resort kind of thing, a 'Omg I totally screwed this guy by rolling him <insert gimp breed choice> and now he cant do jack in PvP/PvM' escape clause.

While I can see why people want this to be a one time only deal, I'd much prefer it if it just had a extremely long lock out, as has been suggested. Letting people change breed is and can only be about giving the player base the freedom to make a choice and having a one time only deal, while initially great, could have the same restrictive results that breed has atm. What if you change to your new wonder breed and actually, you just don't like it..maybe playing a fat ugly trox just isn't you?

I think this may lead to people going certain breeds at certain levels but whats wrong with that idea? Maybe this is what Mean's and the development team are moving towards, it is the future after all.

I would much rather the gap between breed choices be lessened than people having to resort to a full breed change however, though this opinion is based on AO without breed changes in it.