Even out keepers evades

[haavarst]

Even out keepers evades. Thats a good start.
I see no reason keeper should be some kind of unique profession with useless dodge/duck defence. We use the same stuff everyone else use, exept our perks and weapon sucks (need to be looked at too) but I say it again: Even out keepers evades. And make it quick.

[Notcrattey]

Nerf evade to the same level as dodge and duck! Good idea!

[Hacre]

Keeper problems at TL7 aren't around defense, at least not at the moment. The problem is with offense.

Can't perk people you can alpha, people you can perk laugh off the alpha.

Keepers used to be anti melee. I'd like to see a return to that. If Keepers had anything close to their pre LE power, then being susceptible to ranged attacks makes sense.

[mr_road]

if keepers evades were evened out, then they'd have to do the same to the other professions with 'uneven' evades. which means artillery professions would get more evade close.

[McKnuckleSamwich]

Its not just TL7.

Vs MA, I get hit with a FOL and it's game over

I can't avoid hits, I can evade perks, I can't outheal the damage.

I can't hit, I can't cap, I can't reflect for longer than 19 s if I time it right.

I HATE KEEPERS because we have the ass end of EVERY mechanic in pvp.

we have:

very minor evade perks (insight anyone?)
no capping hit,
low duck for debuff checks
Low dodge for any idiot and a gun
a 1 hour recharge on our ONLY healing special
Our evade debuffs are borked to hell
Our healing is worse than the worst nano healer.

[shadowslider]

I think the problem is more than anything is that you just suck...not to say its not "bad" for keepers but comon, your either exaggerating or a noob or combo of both. I looked at your little list of loltastic stuff you included at the bottom of your rant and gotta say, you need to rethink alot of what youve said.

[haavarst]

Keeper problems at TL7 aren't around defense, at least not at the moment. The problem is with offense.

Can't perk people you can alpha, people you can perk laugh off the alpha.

Keepers used to be anti melee. I'd like to see a return to that. If Keepers had anything close to their pre LE power, then being susceptible to ranged attacks makes sense.

Wrong Hacre. But there is a connection. If dodge/duck where at evade close level we didn`t have to run around inn armor clearly not intended for a keeper and didnt have to sacrisfie AR for evades the way we do. Ofcourse we can write page up and down about keepers useless offence, but its been done. This thread puts a question mark on why keepers are decent inn only one evade skill and not the other 2. Makes no sense.

[Hacre]

Not sure what happened to this but it's a good question so I'm going to quote and answer it anyway.

Yes Hacre. But they are a bit connected. If dodge/duck where at evade close level we didn`t have to run around inn armor clearly not intended for a keeper and didnt have to sacrisfie AR for evades the way we do.

Keepers are by design weak to ranged. It makes sense that if you buff an inherent weakness, it's going to come with a sacrifice.

We have other defenses against ranged other than dodge/duck. Heals, absorbs. The problem is the absorb nerf wasn't taken into account with future Keeper improvements. This can be fixed just by applying the 50% PvP damage reduction -after- the hard cap on specials, so cocoon can't just be one shotted.

We feel screwed right now because our usual strength, which was anti melee, no longer applies. Fix that and it'd be much easier to swallow being weak to ranged. Fixing damage output also puts us on a more even keel vs ranged professions. I don't think having a better innate defense against them beyond heals/absorbs is right.

EDIT: Ah I see you reposted. Of course it makes sense. Strong vs melee, weak vs ranged. As I said the problem currently is that we're not especially strong vs melee anymore. If that changes, the weakness to ranged can be swallowed.

We're not an out and out evade profession like Fixers and MAs are, we don't have access to Acrobat. Start making us as strong or almost as strong vs Ranged as we're supposed to be vs melee and we start to approach the too much defensive power status that Adventurers have.

Fixing offense fixes a lot of this.

I think the problem is more than anything is that you just suck...not to say its not "bad" for keepers but comon, your either exaggerating or a noob or combo of both. I looked at your little list of loltastic stuff you included at the bottom of your rant and gotta say, you need to rethink alot of what youve said.

Your post suggests a lack of understanding of the Keeper profession. That doesn't make McKnuckle wrong.

Ok he sometimes goes about his points the wrong way and concentrates solely on TL5 Keepers, but I've seen him post numbers about HP/s compared to other "healing" professions and he's spot on.

Keepers at TL7 can run around with 2 bags of stuff to swap in, depending on opponent (high evade-clsc items, high NR items, high dodge items, high AR items) and still, at best, only hope for a stalemate against another end game opponents.

For a long time Keepers get most of their solo kill points just because they've lasted long enough, dealing enough damage for a 2nd or 3rd party to come along and help finish the Keeper's opponent off. Keeper burst damage is laughable.

[haavarst]

if keepers evades were evened out, then they'd have to do the same to the other professions with 'uneven' evades. which means artillery professions would get more evade close.

Um.. Artillery`s love was what brough us into this mess.

[Hacre]

Um.. Artillery`s love was what brough us into this mess.

This is true. We went from weak to ranged to having no hope to ranged. This was largely the fault of the absorb nerf.

[shadowslider]

Your post suggests a lack of understanding of the Keeper profession. That doesn't make McKnuckle wrong.

Ok he sometimes goes about his points the wrong way and concentrates solely on TL5 Keepers, but I've seen him post numbers about HP/s compared to other "healing" professions and he's spot on.

Keepers at TL7 can run around with 2 bags of stuff to swap in, depending on opponent (high evade-clsc items, high NR items, high dodge items, high AR items) and still, at best, only hope for a stalemate against another end game opponents.

For a long time Keepers get most of their solo kill points just because they've lasted long enough, dealing enough damage for a 2nd or 3rd party to come along and help finish the Keeper's opponent off. Keeper burst damage is laughable.

Yea your right I totally forgot about my 220/70/whatver keeper I have, Turkeyfart I think is the name but im not sure cuz i cant understand it all its so confusing. Your post suggests you dont read, I didnt say keepers were all good to go. Knucklemonkey's list of stuff that is wrong with keepers is wrong, the only thing he mentioned that id go along with is a capping hit, it isnt the easiest thing in the world to kill people cuz we dont have one but it doesnt make it impossible. If you gave keepers a full on alpha it wouldnt be thinking about the longsight, give keepers an alpha when they already have some really good defense? From the sounds of it he and a few others want the best of everything like advys got...thats not being realistic. Waa I dont have enough refelcts, waa I cant cap (yes you can), waa i cant hit people (with 3k+ ar in an endgame setup?), waaa i cant evade stuff (with 3.6k+ defense?), waa our only healing special is dimach (yea cuz aor, nano based aura, and the 3 other heal perks and wrath dont heal)

Keepers could use SOME more offensive power, the lack of available attacks compared to other people is lame yes, when enfos can just run up to you and LOL while they hack you to bits even tho your in a top endgame setup (NOT because your evades necessarily suck, for other reasons related to the enfo prof) its kinda lame. Be realistic, dont sit here and make demands of the company that made this game because you have no clue and really no say in what happens with the game in the long run...95% of the people here just want whats best for THEM.

[Hacre]

Yea your right I totally forgot about my 220/70/whatver keeper I have, Turkeyfart I think is the name but im not sure cuz i cant understand it all its so confusing. Your post suggests you dont read, I didnt say keepers were all good to go. Knucklemonkey's list of stuff that is wrong with keepers is wrong, the only thing he mentioned that id go along with is a capping hit, it isnt the easiest thing in the world to kill people cuz we dont have one but it doesnt make it impossible. If you gave keepers a full on alpha it wouldnt be thinking about the longsight, give keepers an alpha when they already have some really good defense? From the sounds of it he and a few others want the best of everything like advys got...thats not being realistic. Waa I dont have enough refelcts, waa I cant cap (yes you can), waa i cant hit people (with 3k+ ar in an endgame setup?), waaa i cant evade stuff (with 3.6k+ defense?), waa our only healing special is dimach (yea cuz aor, nano based aura, and the 3 other heal perks and wrath dont heal)

Keepers could use SOME more offensive power, the lack of available attacks compared to other people is lame yes, when enfos can just run up to you and LOL while they hack you to bits even tho your in a top endgame setup (NOT because your evades necessarily suck, for other reasons related to the enfo prof) its kinda lame. Be realistic, dont sit here and make demands of the company that made this game because you have no clue and really no say in what happens with the game in the long run...95% of the people here just want whats best for THEM.

You need to bear in mind that McKnuckle is posting from a TL5 perspective, where Keepers have it even worse than they do at TL7.

You talk about the apparent folly of Keepers having an alpha when they have good defense, I put it to you that Advies have an alpha worth talking about and have arguably better defenses. Soldiers currently have more PvP damage output and have damage mitigation far superior to Keepers.

It's all well and good being able to stand around for minutes in PvP taking damage but if that doesn't result in any kills then what's the point?

As it stands right now my personal agenda starts and ends with hoping that Keepers are made more effective in PvP. My -main-, is mothballed, stripped, no equipment because putting -more- effort into the Keeper than I've ever had to put into any other end game PvP toon, didn't even yield 50% of the results I've had from my NT or my Crat.

I didn't mean to come across as if I was insulting you, I'm sorry that I did. But I assure you, from playing as one and facing many, Keepers are in pretty dire straits when it comes to TL7 PvP, even worse at lower TLs. The only place you find Keeper twinks, really, is at TL5 and even there, they're utter crap. I had a level 60 Keeper twink once, hard core twinked implants in the AR slots, the best equipment any level 60 Trox Keeper could muster and -still- other usual TL2 twinks walked all over me.

[Kinkstaah]

We feel screwed right now because our usual strength, which was anti melee, no longer applies.

Really?
In the real world, I would think Keepers still stack up extremely well vs:

MA
Shade
Enforcer
Melee Adventurer

Just throwing that out there. I'd rather fight any of the above on my Enforcer, instead of a Keeper, in an OSB, no rules, actual PVP fight where iMub is not an option, and most of the above classes are dicey at best in such a situation.

[Hacre]

Really?
In the real world, I would think Keepers still stack up extremely well vs:

MA
Shade
Enforcer
Melee Adventurer

Just throwing that out there. I'd rather fight any of the above on my Enforcer, instead of a Keeper, in an OSB, no rules, actual PVP fight where iMub is not an option, and most of the above classes are dicey at best in such a situation.

If you're claiming that Keepers can kill you easier than any of the above, you're doing something terribly wrong. Which judging by how good I know you are, leaves only the fact that you're lying, for some reason.

Your hate for Keepers when they were higher in the chain than Enforcers was no secret, Kink.

The only Enforcers that struggle to perk Keepers are 2he Enforcers, you're not one of them. Keepers can perk Enforcers and Enforcers will not die unless there's multiple opponents. Between perk recharges, Enforcers can easily outheal that alpha.

You're an amazing PvPer, but my god how easily you trivialise things and make statements that you expect to just be taken as fact is rivalled only by Sterva. Claiming Keepers to be above any of those professions as a "threat" to an Enforcer is just laughable. In 2006 or 2007 maybe. In 2009? Not a chance in hell.

To humour you, lets take your list.

MAs. MAs in the right setup are no longer perkable to Keepers without insight if they're just standing there, flagged, with no perks running. Bring Limber into the equation, which in a fight is the lowest buff they're going to have to their evades, forget it.

Melee Adventurers have too much HP for a Keeper to trouble. Keepers haven't troubled Adventurers since the Edged Mastery perks were unchained from Limber/DoF.

Shades can be unperkable against a Keeper while the Shade spams Defeat Righteousness. Once that's done, drain perks and dead Keeper. Keeper NR is nowhere near high enough that a Shade will empty their nanopool or even have stance run out before it lands.

Which leaves Enforcers, who I've already covered. Your agenda is transparent. No one is asking for Keepers to be way better than Enforcers.

[shadowslider]

I agree of the professions that I have played, and ive got 6 or 7 220s across a few accounts, keeper is in a hurt when you go on the BS, you dont move very fast, you dont have a very good alpha unless you fire off everything you have and hope it works and more often than not it doesnt. Keepers need SOME love, the problem isnt keepers its everyone else...means is currently leading a little campagin of undoing all the OP crap that Sirloin let get into the game, itll take time and until then I stoped paying for the game, havent paid in a few months...im gettin spammed with free 30days emails on a regular basis lol.

[haavarst]

Keepers and shades(they got acrobat) only reliable defense are evades. Without them you can kiss absorb/heals goodbye cus you splat before they go off. By giving keepers that small amount of dodge/duck makes us still perkable by good players vs good keeper. Now every Artillery profession perk us:P And we have a chanse to use equipment ment for us to actually have a chanse to perk something. I see your point hacre, but there is no way inn hell I go on BS/OA/Bor/TG/duel inn armor ment for us as our defence aka evades are pathetic vs ranged. Our ability to kill something is even worse, but there are 15 other threads for that.

[shadowslider]

Keepers and shades(they got acrobat) only reliable defense are evades. Without them you can kiss absorb/heals goodbye cus you splat before they go off. By giving keepers that small amount of dodge/duck makes us still perkable by good players vs good keeper. Now every Artillery profession perk us:P And we have a chanse to use equipment ment for us to actually have a chanse to perk something. I see your point hacre, but there is no way inn hell I go on BS/OA/Bor/TG/duel inn armor ment for us as our defence aka evades are pathetic vs ranged. Our ability to kill something is even worse, but there are 15 other threads for that.

Not sure what you said, but...no just no

[haavarst]

I stoped paying for the game, havent paid in a few months...

Not sure what you said, but...no just no

I read your first deleted response (wasent very nice was it). Why inactive players can post here at all I find strange. Stop wasting your time.

[Moonbolt]

If you're claiming that Keepers can kill you easier than any of the above, you're doing something terribly wrong. Which judging by how good I know you are, leaves only the fact that you're lying, for some reason..

i got the same setup as kink does and i got pwned 3 times in a row against a keeper just yesterday... i didnt stanc a chance against him even.
Keepers is realy rough for enfs to beat. that is a fact.
atleast if the keeper knows what hes doin.

[haavarst]

i got the same setup as kink does and i got pwned 3 times in a row against a keeper just yesterday... i didnt stanc a chance against him even.
Keepers is realy rough for enfs to beat. that is a fact.
atleast if the keeper knows what hes doin.

If we ofcourse look away from MR, I don`t know enfs very good, what kind of AR can a Enf reach?