Keepers - Summing up

[Xkeeper]

Ok, we have seen a lot of ideas and sugestions of what keepers want or need, so i think is a good idea to add all the ideas in a single topic so it will make easyer to browse. Here they are.

1) Lower the defense check of Holy Mark debuffs (Current is 95%)
2) 1h edge + Shield combo
3) Elegible for ranged energy / Melee Energy (would make us unique for sure)
4) Condense HM line into maybe a 5 perks line
5) Even up Dodge and Duck with Melee clsc on HM line (make hem all the same as evade clsc dows now)
6) Condense Blessing and AoR into 5 Perks each
7) Or merge Blessing with AoR into a single 10 pts line
8) Or add blessing heals to AoR line
9) Make Wrath nano line more operational for us, maybe lower recharge time to be compaible with our Fast Attack recharge. Raising DMG would be good too, same with Fury for lower levels.
10) Kill this nano line idea, let us use our skills to full potential. No point not beeing able to use a mere 6% reflect if we are runing imminence nano. They should be merged into a single nano.
11) Also merge Nano aura and Heal aura nanos into a single nano
12) Merge dmg aura. ward and resist nanos into a single nano
13) Even up our evade skills on Elude Pain so every skills add 140. With the high ammount of AR gained lately by ranged professions we got nothing to atleast clear the gat a little bit. For every 100 AR added to ranged profs we get less than half added to def skills.
14) Same idea as above, but make all our evade skills light green so we can benefit from more evades overall, we dont need acrobat, just to bem even within our skills and toolset.
15) Raise AAO on imminence line for god sake.
18) Make couring touch heal scale with the ammount of HP we have
19) Lay on Hands should heal more and faster, lowering recharge and raising heal ammount would be good.
20) Raise AOR heal ticks... currently is too low fo high lvls
21) Dimatch heal is good, but too slow of a recharge... let us atleast use it once every duel whitout having to wait for the current recharge. Making the maximum echarge 15 minutes and minimun down to 8 minutes would be intresting.
22) Lower requirements on those stupif 1.8+ K nanos... really, we are not casters, even tho our nanos last longer than most out there we cant be looking for Traders and MP´s everytime we got into battle station. We should be able to cast our skills without problem, ITENS NEEDS TWINKING NANOS ARE NOT SUPPOSED TO WORK LIKE THAT, THEY ARE OUR FREAKING TOOLS.
23) Lower devotional armor recharge, this perk is actually one of the best we got.

Well, this is what i came up scrolling topics about keepers, i think most of these are very plausible changes, it is something that will affect every aspect of the currently dead keeper pvp status, as for pvm it will only impoove, we have great capability of tanking, nohing wrong on that area at the current time if you ask me.

Since we are pretty much perk dependants he idea of mergin our nano lines and improve them a little as it be will make us perform a lot better in pvp, most people don´t realise that but our nanos are very good, even tho we have them spread out. We curently are a profession withou unique setups, you eiher have a keeper like everyone else or you don´t. Well, this game is like this actually, everyone has the same goal without beeing unique, you will hardly see a profession distinct to his other companions, appart from enfos with blunts and edges and advs with edge and pistols we are all the same boring thing. This is what this game needs, diversity inside the classes so everyone doesnt need to use the exac same setup so at the end we are all alike, the only thing that will change is what we use on our social tab.

One more thing keepers lack is a distinct attack. We have brawl and FA and a lousy warth nano, while...
1) Fixers - FA/AS
2) Advs - AS/FA/SA
3) Shades - SA
4) Trades - AS
5) MPs - AS
6) Crats - Some still use AS i guess
7) Enfs - SA option on 1h edge
8) Soldiers - FA/AS
9) Agents - Duh..
10) Engis - That damn dog pet + some use AS still.. i think... atleast they usued to
11) NT´s - Doubles and Triples...
12) Ma´s - AS and Dimatch
13 Keepers... brawl... yah, this is an attack where we can maybe get a good crit every now and then...

This is all without consideing perks ofcouse, we do have s&d... but thats all, while every other prof have those specials + killer perks..
I am not asking fo us to have SA or anything like that, even tho we have a SA nano god knows why... The idea here is make our wrath nano usefull for this prupose, i could be a freaking divine blow to the head maybe... because the description of the nano really make us think it is a super freaking dmg dealer... but when you use it its lower than our fast atack and has a life time recharge. Make the hing be a head splitter as it should please.

[Coffay]

1) Lower the defense check of Holy Mark debuffs (Current is 95%)
2) 1h edge + Shield combo
3) Elegible for ranged energy / Melee Energy (would make us unique for sure)
4) Condense HM line into maybe a 5 perks line
5) Even up Dodge and Duck with Melee clsc on HM line (make hem all the same as evade clsc dows now)
6) Condense Blessing and AoR into 5 Perks each
7) Or merge Blessing with AoR into a single 10 pts line
8) Or add blessing heals to AoR line
9) Make Wrath nano line more operational for us, maybe lower recharge time to be compaible with our Fast Attack recharge. Raising DMG would be good too, same with Fury for lower levels.
10) Kill this nano line idea, let us use our skills to full potential. No point not beeing able to use a mere 6% reflect if we are runing imminence nano. They should be merged into a single nano.
11) Also merge Nano aura and Heal aura nanos into a single nano
12) Merge dmg aura. ward and resist nanos into a single nano
13) Even up our evade skills on Elude Pain so every skills add 140. With the high ammount of AR gained lately by ranged professions we got nothing to atleast clear the gat a little bit. For every 100 AR added to ranged profs we get less than half added to def skills.
14) Same idea as above, but make all our evade skills light green so we can benefit from more evades overall, we dont need acrobat, just to bem even within our skills and toolset.
15) Raise AAO on imminence line for god sake.
18) Make couring touch heal scale with the ammount of HP we have
19) Lay on Hands should heal more and faster, lowering recharge and raising heal ammount would be good.
20) Raise AOR heal ticks... currently is too low fo high lvls
21) Dimatch heal is good, but too slow of a recharge... let us atleast use it once every duel whitout having to wait for the current recharge. Making the maximum echarge 15 minutes and minimun down to 8 minutes would be intresting.
22) Lower requirements on those stupif 1.8+ K nanos... really, we are not casters, even tho our nanos last longer than most out there we cant be looking for Traders and MP´s everytime we got into battle station. We should be able to cast our skills without problem, ITENS NEEDS TWINKING NANOS ARE NOT SUPPOSED TO WORK LIKE THAT, THEY ARE OUR FREAKING TOOLS.
23) Lower devotional armor recharge, this perk is actually one of the best we got.

1) This.
2) Maybe, I'm staying 2he anyways ( I think )
3) Sword of dusk just because it looks cool? yes.
4) HM... 8 points and I'll use it
5) This.
6) This because merged nano lines would be to powerful and you can regulate level locks better.
7) nah hard to scale fairly on levels, especially low levels
8) practically same thing as 7
9) hmm wrath is unique to keeper, don't make it too powerful, either up damage or reduce recharge? but not both.
10) Mkay sounds not OP
11) no. just no.
12) n00's ward is already a very useful aura, you dont need the root aura if you spend time getting NR up and well damage... nah.. just keep these lines as they are.
13) This, but not just on elude, on all.
14) hmm don't think this gonna happen but who am I to say no to free evades. yes.
15) YES, SOMEONE SAID IT!
16) :O wheres 16?
17) 17 is a lie too.
18) Yes, ditch the 20% heal(After spending 10 perks) and raise curing touch, I'd like more healing powah at TL 5
20) Is already happening, read perk changes.doc highest aura wil have 6s tick, and guess what: I won't complain.
21) This, keeper dimach recharge doesn't justify the healing amount.
22) eh haven't reached that level on keep yet, but sure, nanoskills seem pretty high.
23) I think this is good as it is, however more powah or shorter recharge = always welcome.

One more thing keepers lack is a distinct attack. We have brawl and FA and a lousy warth nano, while...

I lol'd, distinct attacks? everyone's using the same ones, we got wrath, be happy, they don't!

[Xkeeper]

I lol'd, distinct attacks? everyone's using the same ones, we got wrath, be happy, they don't!

Oh, im sorry, wrath is awesome in pvp... how didn´t i see that before

[McKnuckleSamwich]

great summary.

Just a note, elude pain or whatever you have at TL7 ya, agree round all the duck/dodge up toe evade cls, but, don't leave out the lower procs ignore the irrelevant and the 110 one..

Also, I think the 1he shield thing, the thing most keepers been asking for is a prof specific shield that has a location req in left wrist, which would allow us to use with 2he.

[Xkeeper]

great summary.

Just a note, elude pain or whatever you have at TL7 ya, agree round all the duck/dodge up toe evade cls, but, don't leave out the lower procs ignore the irrelevant and the 110 one..

Also, I think the 1he shield thing, the thing most keepers been asking for is a prof specific shield that has a location req in left wrist, which would allow us to use with 2he.

man.. stop with the TL5 thing already, if something changes for TL7 it is going to go the same way for other levels... elude pain was just an exemple. And if the evades get all even up ofcouse it should include every nano/procs/perks/research out there. Pretty obvious actually

[Xkeeper]

oh and adding brawler for keepers wouldnt hurt also

[McKnuckleSamwich]

oh and adding brawler for keepers wouldnt hurt also

holy crap. This is one of the best suggestions I've ever heard.. i don't know why I didn't think of this.

But srsly, it would solve SO many problems, especially IF/when FC condenses some of the current perklines... HM/blessing/AoR

bumporama.

[Triskweline]

9) Make Wrath nano line more operational for us, maybe lower recharge time to be compaible with our Fast Attack recharge. Raising DMG would be good too, same with Fury for lower levels.

Something simple and not game-changing for Wrath: Please please please grey it out and add a countdown timer to the item so that we don't have to keep mashing the key "just in case" it is up.

[McKnuckleSamwich]

man.. stop with the TL5 thing already, if something changes for TL7 it is going to go the same way for other levels... elude pain was just an exemple. And if the evades get all even up ofcouse it should include every nano/procs/perks/research out there. Pretty obvious actually

You don't get it, do you?

TL7 keeper is like a car that 5th gear doesn't work, and the radiator is shot.
TL5 keeper is that mangled piece of metal that has already gone thru the crusher.

OK? It's what I play. So it's what matters to me, so no, I won't stop, and please don't tell me what to do.

What I need reflects a lot of the needs of "perk dependant" profs, in otherwords, shades and keepers, AND, for your information, they are nerfed to sh!t at everything under the shadowlevels, so, my mission is to make sure they are targetted and fixed.

[Xkeeper]

You don't get it, do you?

TL7 keeper is like a car that 5th gear doesn't work, and the radiator is shot.
TL5 keeper is that mangled piece of metal that has already gone thru the crusher.

OK? It's what I play. So it's what matters to me, so no, I won't stop, and please don't tell me what to do.

What I need reflects a lot of the needs of "perk dependant" profs, in otherwords, shades and keepers, AND, for your information, they are nerfed to sh!t at everything under the shadowlevels, so, my mission is to make sure they are targetted and fixed.

you dont seem to get... whatever changes we get it will affect every level of the profession directly, despite the pre-documents they added to us there will be plenty more of changes, you cant start changing something from the middle, either you start from the beggining or from the end... everything that has been asked may be focused on TL7 but it will affect TL6 and TL5... if eventually HM gets cut down to a 5 Perk line... dont you think you would benefit from it aswell?

[capncaveman]

perks firing faster, the 25 minute alpha [slight exaggeration but not much] debuffs s&d pl is a tad ridiculous for pvp

make the shade nemesis nano a debuff and not remove auras, recasting 12k worth of nano pool and hot swapping to do it in bs or at towers is stupid, bs is over before we can rebuff and finish hot swapping
our nemesis nano on agents last 20 seconds woo hoo!! 1250-rifle as they agent runs out of range for a few seconds then come back, we get a 10 minute process of rebuffing >.<!!!!!

would also be nice to go back to being a top damage prof., not just an anti fear ho for 12 man

getting od'd by engis crats mp's and docs on a full end game keeper is kinda silly too

weren't they one of the top 3 at one point, [oh yeah] I do remember od'ing sols and ma's. those were the days

[McKnuckleSamwich]

you dont seem to get... whatever changes we get it will affect every level of the profession directly, despite the pre-documents they added to us there will be plenty more of changes, you cant start changing something from the middle, either you start from the beggining or from the end... everything that has been asked may be focused on TL7 but it will affect TL6 and TL5... if eventually HM gets cut down to a 5 Perk line... dont you think you would benefit from it aswell?

I'm hoping so.

But, There are a few things that are independant of TL7 changes. For example:

The proposed perk action in AoR: is available at 202(?), where it's obviously useless because no keeper in his right mind will use it.

In reality, that 20% heal needs to be available in the first or second perk of that line, therby opening it up to all TL's. (read my comparison of healing if more evidence is needed)

This type of change would benefit TL1-7, not only benefit TL7.

Generally speaking, for a perk dependant prof, MORE perk actions need to be available at lower levels. Thus defining part of my need for involvement.

If the only changes that occur are ones that affect TL7 but trickle down, TL1-5 will only be incrementally (or trickle) better, when we are the more broken...

In a relative scale against our peers TL5<<<TL7, where keepers at TL7 are BARELY competitive against the profs they are supposed to be competitive against, but at TL5 keepers are NOT competitive against any of the profs they are supposed to be competitive against. <-- ugh, ok I admit we both might be completely screwed.

But you get the point, TL1-6 don't need "trickle" changes. We need very serious improvements.

[Xkeeper]

well, every perkline has its ultimate benefit at TL7, AOR has no benefit perk in it fo now, if this update does come thru it will have 1 singl eperk, wich is given to TL7, like every other good perk found in the game... instead of asking for the TL7 perk for you, ask for somehing else, like a mid perk line that heals for 10% instead... this is much more plausible... think before you ask stuff.

[McKnuckleSamwich]

well, every perkline has its ultimate benefit at TL7, AOR has no benefit perk in it fo now, if this update does come thru it will have 1 singl eperk, wich is given to TL7, like every other good perk found in the game... instead of asking for the TL7 perk for you, ask for somehing else, like a mid perk line that heals for 10% instead... this is much more plausible... think before you ask stuff.

dude, I've thought about a lot of this stuff for a long time. <--removed flames for keeping thread non agressive.

If keepers needed a 10% heal perk, I'd ask for it. What keepers need is significantly more healing, and a once every three minute or whatever 10-20% heal perk won't cut it.

Read the healing post. Theres sufficient evidence that keepers are (for a healing prof) well behind MA when considering the perk investment. If it's not clear to you that other TL's might need attention too, why don't you come observe the mob outside newlands, and see how your prof performs?

I've already made a lot of really reasonable suggestions, as well as the logic behind why perk dependant profs have less tools at their disposal, thus providing reasons for why perks should open at lower levels in the lines on shades/keepers.


the problem you're not understanding, is that I can't ask for boatloads of EXTRA stuff at TL5 because when compounded by what becomes available at TL7, it throws balance out the window. The point of opening up reasonable % heals early on is that they will always be balanced. But as you suggested, a 10% heal just won't cut it. Its not reasonable.

If I'm healing 6000hp/min with a 14 perk investment (into AoR and blessing), and an MA is healing 6600HP/min, just spamming RK heals, with less hp to recover on caps, AND he still has red dawn on top of that AND better defences, you're looking at a VERY serious discrepancy in how keepers are ***AS A HEALING PROF*** operating. (lets not even get into advy. Thats just depressing)

Ok, so, now you see, I hope, that there is a reason for asking for more healing.

[Snoopdooog]

bump for keeper luv

[Heresiarch]

sage and lock for flaming - xkeeper is right about everything

[Shaylon]

Bump; for Keepers needing attention and that nemesis nano being a temporary shut down of nanos instead of removal ...making people have to hot swap four to six pieces of gear several times a battlestation is wrong and in towers impossable. You'd be dead before you ever get your gear back on..esp if you have to unequip your weopon for nano skills buffing weopons.

[McKnuckleSamwich]

sage and lock for flaming - xkeeper is right about everything

He's summed up most of it real well. But he failed to bring some argumetns for love at lower levels. In fact he argued against it, which seems weird, considering the relative strength of keepers at TL5 is more skewed than at TL7.

[wyldebeast]

He's summed up most of it real well. But he failed to bring some argumetns for love at lower levels. In fact he argued against it, which seems weird, considering the relative strength of keepers at TL5 is more skewed than at TL7.

And you fail to see anything from any other perspective than tl5, so where's the difference between his post and all of yours.

And actually, XKeeper is saying that if changes happen at tl7 it will be felt at lower title levels too. He's just arguing the sane argument that you have to start at either the beginning or the end when reworking a profession. You can't just start in the middle and hope it will even out both ways, which is rather close to the idea you get when looking at all of your posts.

[Heresiarch]

He's summed up most of it real well. But he failed to bring some argumetns for love at lower levels. In fact he argued against it, which seems weird, considering the relative strength of keepers at TL5 is more skewed than at TL7.

as it should be... tl5 is where the men are separated from the boys