Keepers

[Hacre]

HM perks were never meant as enablers, they were meant as means to keep ur opponent down after a temporary shift in advantages.

[citation needed]

In fact, a better explanation than some random comment would be helpful, as well.

[PingBong]

[citation needed]

In fact, a better explanation than some random comment would be helpful, as well.

Defense skills Evade close 100 %

duh?

[McKnuckleSamwich]

we're currently derailed. Back on topic:

Condence HM line to 5-8 perks,

Combine blessing and AoR lines.

Give keepers an OPTION for using other perks. We're currently super perk poor at all TL's.

Furthermore, for a evade dependant prof, our only real evade line is vastly underpowered for
1. the total mods
2. actionable items
3. the ## of perks needed to utilize. (this one is the killer)


bump.

[Hacre]

Defense skills Evade close 100 %

duh?

I'm calling that a design flaw.

[McKnuckleSamwich]

I'm calling that a design flaw.

I don't think it is.

If you look at the duration of the perk (50 seconds? I think, and 1 minute for the AAD one), It is obvios that the evade debuffs are supposed to outlast a targets evade BUFFS, hence, if you can perk an MA during limber, you'll get the benefits of the debuff running on him all the way through DOF, and even still some more in the next limber cycle.

Hence, it isn't a design flaw, but I do think that they weren't thought out properly for lower levels. for example, against the profs whom you actually need these debuffs, you cannot survive to actually take advantage of them, which basically mean they are pointless.

For example, in a keeper vs advy situation:

start at full def, at 30 seconds, you start your swaps, first pata, then sacrificial ensigns, finally offence hud, then perk insight, By the time insight fires, you hope you have made the right decision, (that advy started with DOF and not limber), then you can perk the advy with the evade debuffs, swap back to defensive setup after emptying perks (which brings him to 50% hp), at which point, you have about 1000 hp left; and even though you're in defensive mode the advy will still chew through every remaining defence you have in the next ten seconds.

Against other profs, such as MA, or fixer, it doesn't work anyway, because you can't land the debuff. So, at TL<7, there doesn't seem to be much use, since the only time it CAN be used, you're dead.

[Hacre]

I don't think it is.

If you look at the duration of the perk (50 seconds? I think, and 1 minute for the AAD one), It is obvios that the evade debuffs are supposed to outlast a targets evade BUFFS, hence, if you can perk an MA during limber, you'll get the benefits of the debuff running on him all the way through DOF, and even still some more in the next limber cycle.

Hence, it isn't a design flaw, but I do think that they weren't thought out properly for lower levels. for example, against the profs whom you actually need these debuffs, you cannot survive to actually take advantage of them, which basically mean they are pointless.

For example, in a keeper vs advy situation:

start at full def, at 30 seconds, you start your swaps, first pata, then sacrificial ensigns, finally offence hud, then perk insight, By the time insight fires, you hope you have made the right decision, (that advy started with DOF and not limber), then you can perk the advy with the evade debuffs, swap back to defensive setup after emptying perks (which brings him to 50% hp), at which point, you have about 1000 hp left; and even though you're in defensive mode the advy will still chew through every remaining defence you have in the next ten seconds.

Against other profs, such as MA, or fixer, it doesn't work anyway, because you can't land the debuff. So, at TL<7, there doesn't seem to be much use, since the only time it CAN be used, you're dead.

Which is where the design flaw comes in. At TL7, that tactic used to work, now it doesn't. Remember how before the Edged Mastery perks were tied to Acro perks?

I've had around 3550 AR, self with Insight up and those perks miss during Limber. That's dueling with 2 bags of stuff open to swap between off/def setup when insight became available, or when evade procs fired. Those perks don't land on people you need them to land on and they land on people that the only useful one to land is the aao debuff.

[McKnuckleSamwich]

Which is where the design flaw comes in. At TL7, that tactic used to work, now it doesn't. Remember how before the Edged Mastery perks were tied to Acro perks?

I've had around 3550 AR, self with Insight up and those perks miss during Limber. That's dueling with 2 bags of stuff open to swap between off/def setup when insight became available, or when evade procs fired. Those perks don't land on people you need them to land on and they land on people that the only useful one to land is the aao debuff.

Well, that was one of my beefs as well. keepers are asshooped for swaps, it drives me crazy, to be even remotely defensively competitive I need three swaps:
notucomm
motr for sacrificial ensigns, and
evade hud,

and I'm sure it's far worse at TL7.

But, generally, it must be the same. I can not land an evade debuff if I have 90 extra AR from towers and I'm in defensive setup. I HAVE to go to offensive setup to land it during limber.

For those 10-15 seconds of swapping while I can't hit and can't do much else until I've finally landed those two debuffs, I'm a sitting duck, and, because those damn perks take so long to execute, it basically takes me down to "dire straights" status of health, with the only option left of popping dimach, which is never up, and if it is, only heals me for about 2.4k, (about 1/5th of my hp), so it really is uber-futile.

Anyway, the whole prof in view is completely screwed until there are substantial changes made to condense perklines. I currently can not beat agents, enfs, advies, MA's or solds, which basically means my entire time playing my keeper is one big fail.

At TL5 we really really need some help.

[Moonbolt]

Which is where the design flaw comes in. At TL7, that tactic used to work, now it doesn't. Remember how before the Edged Mastery perks were tied to Acro perks?

I've had around 3550 AR, self with Insight up and those perks miss during Limber. That's dueling with 2 bags of stuff open to swap between off/def setup when insight became available, or when evade procs fired. Those perks don't land on people you need them to land on and they land on people that the only useful one to land is the aao debuff.

tbh i dont think its the perks that are broken.. i think the amount of aad / evades people can get are broken since the -evade perks etc doesnt help at all against any profession.
either u can already perk the profession or u wont land the evade debuff so it wont matter if u use the perk at all.
this is the fact with most of the defence lowering stuff in this game.

[Heresiarch]

tbh i dont think its the perks that are broken.. i think the amount of aad / evades people can get are broken since the -evade perks etc doesnt help at all against any profession.
either u can already perk the profession or u wont land the evade debuff so it wont matter if u use the perk at all.
this is the fact with most of the defence lowering stuff in this game.

The debuff should check on 50% imo

[Coffay]

You are all used to having crappy perks so much, you are being modest.

Combine blessing and AoR lines.

Furthermore, for a evade dependant prof, our only real evade line is vastly underpowered for
1. the total mods
2. actionable items
3. the ## of perks needed to utilize. (this one is the killer)

This.
comment on #1 tho; in the new perk documents shows crusade will now add evades too, check it out.
other than that, reduce blessing of life recharge back to 30 seconds again, it would be nice to be able to pop up our hp a bit after our cocoon ran out. and again LOWER DEFENCE CHECK FOR EVADE DEBUFF PERK D:

ditch the 20% heal for aor, and merge blessing with aor = happy keeper

that is all

edit: typo

[Litleangel]

But what about ower 6k heal that we wont get it no more? Come on FC not all keepers ar atrox to go around 3k body dev plz.... im opifex i cant get that much. Also i did reset body dev so now that perk will suck big time for me. Eventit if i max body dev it will be imposeble

Why do keepers that eint atrox got to take such a beating .... same for shades that eint atrox.

[Kepitimer]

But what about ower 6k heal that we wont get it no more? Come on FC not all keepers ar atrox to go around 3k body dev plz.... im opifex i cant get that much. Also i did reset body dev so now that perk will suck big time for me. Eventit if i max body dev it will be imposeble

Why do keepers that eint atrox got to take such a beating .... same for shades that eint atrox.

I like it that way.

[fireduckjzz]

But what about ower 6k heal that we wont get it no more? Come on FC not all keepers ar atrox to go around 3k body dev plz.... im opifex i cant get that much. Also i did reset body dev so now that perk will suck big time for me. Eventit if i max body dev it will be imposeble

Why do keepers that eint atrox got to take such a beating .... same for shades that eint atrox.

Okay well, my keeper is atrox, and honestly basing the perk on body dev is a good idea being since your opi your evades will be higher than mine, and you will get hit less, thus atrox needing a bit higher healing with the perk. I will trade you the bit of extra healing for evades any day, just let me know

[Litleangel]

Ar you kidding ? couse i sure hope you do. Like 40 more evades compared to your 40 ar is gona justify more healing and lets not talk about perks.

When i did toon in 2005 i thought wow opifex description looks nice evades and stuff i never thought a dam ATROX has a dodge range perk maiking me look like a sisi and a 1500 ar button.

O yea opifex got evades..... plz be serius i wold trade eni of the opi genome perks for the dam 300 dodge range perk. Lets not talk about mr also.

[Coffay]

so from the above 3 posts we can conclude that every keeper should get an option to have a breed change to atrox

[McKnuckleSamwich]

One thing about the healing based on BD that hasn't been noted is:

Atrox get 4HP per 1 BD
other breed get 1 or 2.

so: lets say you are atrox and have 1200 BD =4800HP and max 13K HP, and your heal is 2400

that 2400 heal (for me, at TL5 won't even come close to healing 1 capped hit, pff, btw)

whereas, on soli or Opi, they might max out at 1100 BD =2200HP, which would only give them about 10K max HP, now, the problem is on a capped hit that Curing touch will heal way more of that capped hit than it will for atrox.

IMO, CT should just heal 1 capped hit, so, 30% of max HP, but, the recharge needs to be lowered to like 80 sec, so, you can heal 1/2 sneak attacks. At TL5, this is our only decent heal, so, it's gotta be available a LOT more.

[mr_road]

Atrox get 4HP per 1 BD
other breed get 1 or 2.

4 for atrox
3 for soli/opi
2 for nano

there is also stamina trickle differences.

[McKnuckleSamwich]

4 for atrox
3 for soli/opi
2 for nano

there is also stamina trickle differences.

Thanks, I stand corrected.

Still, bump for faster recharging CT and 30% heal.

If you have to nerf other keeper heals that open at endgame to balance this, do that, but currently lower TL keepers are just getting a barrage of nerbats to the face.

[Xkeeper]

Well, i got some suggestion that will pretty much be the same as many others arround the topic and some other that may add something significant to the profession.

Well, i´ve been playing my keeper since 2003, i´ve experienced every step that led to where we stand right now. We started as a weaponless profession, pretty much stuck between FBR, Jobe Defender Naginata (took me almost a year to get a QL 300, when i got AI came up). When AI came up we became a killer profession, even before it to be honest, but was AI that made our name.

After AI something went very wrong, Every profession got major updates while we parked, Soldiers got major AR updates, MA´s also, enfos got ridiculous HP upgrades, fixers, traders and so on.... Shades today are the killing machines they should be...

Along those other profession updates in a course of 3 years keeper got NOTHING to add up, a couple of nanos that are impossible to use on a regular basis, our limitation of toolset such as nanos that cant be used in the same nano line, slow perk recharge and so on...

Today we got the effects of that... We got too much HP for too little heals, not enough evades to compensate the upgrades on other professions Attack Rating... Our dodge ranged is useless even with Wit of The atrox, in a couple of good landed FA´s or ASes we are down, our heals can´t catch up...

For all those reasons i think something needs to be done on a few areas...

1) Reduce heal perks recharge and make them check with our HP, so the more HP we got more they heal for.

2) Give us a reason to use AoR instead of Blessing... too much HP already, we don´t need that much HP. Give AoR something besides just healing aura, or ATLEAST combine both... Make AOR and BLESSING a 10 pts perks that will give us AOR aside with the benefits of blessing perks.

3) Well, our evades are outdated, Holy Mark NEEDS ADD ALL DEF in it... NEEDS. Also, we cant afford to have Dodge Ranged and Duck explosives reduced. Make it even with Evade Clsc... not only on the perk line but on Elude Pain, and make those damn skills light green for us. They should be even with evade... Same on the reserch and procs... they should add all the same ammount, dodge rng and duck shouldnt be lowered for us.

4) Imminence perk line.... even up AAD and AAO.... they should add the same ammount for both... We NEED MORE AR FOR PVP.

5) Its gone the time of nano lines.... We need every skill on our toolset, we should be able to use all of our auras at the same time, this is very important for us... You dont need to raise the benefits from ward or reflect... just let us use Imminence, reflects and ward at the same time...

Those are not abusive requests in my eyes, we have good potential, just need our toolset to be available to us as it should, we got way too far behind compared with other professions.

Aside of that, gratz FC for the initiative, this game really needs a profession revamp.

BTW... When those come to change, DO NOT MAKE US SKILL AND PERK RESET... i dont want to retwink ****, just reset everyone when this comes up and leave us with our symbs in... will be very annoying having to perk reset/twink symbs back in. Bye

[Hacre]

Okay well, my keeper is atrox, and honestly basing the perk on body dev is a good idea being since your opi your evades will be higher than mine, and you will get hit less, thus atrox needing a bit higher healing with the perk. I will trade you the bit of extra healing for evades any day, just let me know

Opi vs Atrox evades isn't a game breaking difference at 220. Stop trying to make out that better healing isn't as good as what, 40 evades?

This thread isn't about breeds, it's about Keepers. Breed advantages shouldn't influence core parts of the profession, but rather enhance certain areas.

The change to Curing Touch sucks, end of. I could understand it if it was currently some big overpowered CHing heal, but it isn't.

No one is going to have 3k body dev not even Atroxes. So the heal compared to what it is now, is going to suck.