Friday with Means - October 9th, 2009 - Parry and Riposte - Back from the dead!

[Windguaerd]

yes, cause its only been said for the Nth time, they're working on a website redesign. and we all know, it takes juar a few minutes to totally redesign and impliment a brand new site with tons of existing content.

The AO site doesn't have hundreds of guides, nor does it have a few thousands of images. A good part of it is email linkage, file linkage (videos) and linkage to these forums.

Most of it are pages with info which are a very easy "select all" and copy & paste that would take no more than 5 seconds to do per page.

The issue is the way the content is displayed, and some of it being innacurate and outdated.

I'm no genius in web design, but I took my time taking the site apart and pointing out every possible problem I could spot and offered solutions which shouldn't be hard to implement for a professional web designer.

It wouldn't be hard to build a new site with the announcement "We're revamping the site, some sections are not available at this time due to the upgrade".

A player who is a web designer even offered his skills for free. Now look at the date of my suggestion, May 7th of this year, over half a year has gone by...in June Means said in FC irc that someone was working on the site.

If I do a little survey among professional web designers and ask them an approximate time that they would take to redo a site like AO with the fixes/suggestions I proposed, I wonder if any of them would say half a year.

Maybe I'm being a bastard about it because I care so much about AO and how every single time FC drops the ball, we either lose players or the game simple becomes unattractive to gamers who otherwise may try the game if they saw a decent and accurate MMO site.

[Gastastic]

FA+AS+SA should lock parry/riposte as well.

No.

[Honorbound]

I for one totally see a ma pushing away a gun and using the opportunity to land a good attack. This being happening because the ranged fighter ended in melee range.

Ranged range, I can't see this. I know their hands are on fire, but it's still hard to swallow, plus that puts high tech weaponry in the same range of a crowbar. You'll stop plasma with a crowbar ?

Pretty much my own thoughts.

It would make the most sense if parry worked only in melee range. You don't hit bullets out of the air, instead you hit the weapon a moment before it's fired so the next shot will miss. But for that, you need to be within reach.
Since this will be used by melee professions, you'll have to be in range to your opponent anyway if you in fact want to fight them, so I don't really see it as a disadvantage.

To me, riposte would also make more sense if it was tied to a successful parry. After you've swept aside the weapon of your opponent, he'll have to make an effort to regain balance/fighting stance, which opens a window of vulnerability in his defence. During these few moments, you have a chance to land a damaging critical blow of the sort if you can catch that exact right moment.

[haxi]

Mailbox for AO has been suggested since WoW was in beta circa '04. Good to see they are working on it.

[-XeI20-]

Okay nubis. This is how melee parry gunfire. Oh, and here's another example of gunfire being parried with melee movements. ffs people. All this uproar about, omgawd it's unrealisitc, it's so not sci-fi blah blah blah; certain melee profs got some love, qq more.

Melee profs, specialize in melee movements. They're going to be able to perform movements their ranged counterparts have no chance of doing. Get Over It.

[Neista]

What Means should have really done is post a random list of proposed balance changes, all out of context. Then all the whiners would have arthritis by the time a comprehensive list is posted.

Epic Win! Means should so have done this!

Excuse me now, i'm off to start levelling a melee engineer

[Gastastic]

Mailbox for AO has been suggested since WoW was in beta circa '04. Good to see they are working on it.

Mailbox was suggested in AO before WoW was a glimmer in the eye of Blizzard.

[Klod9000]

Okay nubis. This is how melee parry gunfire. Oh, and here's another example of gunfire being parried with melee movements. ffs people. All this uproar about, omgawd it's unrealisitc, it's so not sci-fi blah blah blah; certain melee profs got some love, qq more.

You should have been fair enough to include video with the rest of the fight, like this.

Here we can see how one (pistol MP without pets?) can tank and kill full soldier squadron. This guy is not melee, he's ranged user that can swap to melee if needed.

[-XeI20-]

You should have been fair enough to include video with the rest of the fight, like this.

Here we can see how one (pistol MP without pets?) can tank and kill full soldier squadron. This guy is not melee, he's ranged user that can swap to melee if needed.

He's a standard unmodified human. He's unable to dodge bullets. He's unable to survive multiple gunshots/melee wounds and repair them. He would most certainly be 100% unable to actually 'hit' any player in AO. A tl2 Shade could pox him.

Yet, even if we entertain for a bit that he is a 'ranged' user we would have to note that he is an overall balanced and well trained individual. In the world of AO, the combat soldier, or rather, this balanced and well trained individual incorporating the best of everything is divided into specialized professions. Combat soldiers such as the Navy Seals/British SAS etc etc are not only expert marksmen but masters of close quarters combat, aka melee users, as well as being trained in demolitions. If we were to compare that main protagonist, or rather the highly trained combat soldier he represents, in that video to professions in AO, he would be a Soldier with Ma attacks and NT triples.

The video I posted demonstrated that someone who is highly trained in MELEE combat can achieve parry movements in a sci-fi setting. A ranged specialist with little to no melee skill would be incapable of performing such movements. So let's not dwell on the capabilities of Solartechs when we are trying to compare and evaluate specialists who's capabilities are limited in the methods they can engage in combat.

[Dangerbot]

you got more construction sites than you can handle, and you open every week additional ones. dont understand why first finish one before open so much more...

I just think of FWM as an episode of Lost these days. You know, that show. "They're on the island they're off the island they're on the island who can follow that ****."

And it takes about 50 episodes to explain any particular story arc. And of course they drag it out more by showing one episode a month for some wierd reason, then going on an 8 month break every now and then just because. Hawaii is a pretty awesome place, I'd fart about too if I was on their production team.

As for 'ranged parrying melee', that began on page three. Guns have moving parts. If you attempt to block a hit with your ranged weapon, surely those moving parts would experience some difficulty. Melee weapons are simpler devices, designed for hitting things; including hitting other weapons by means of parrying them. Ranged weapons are not.

Silly argument, on the same strain of a planes black box. Hey if the box can survive the crash. why not just make the plane out of the same stuff! Urg. Facepalm.

Can't wait for the next episode of Lost with Means. They promised to explain the balancing story arc, but not delivering just made me even more of a fan. Rly.

[Klod9000]

He's a standard unmodified human. He's unable to dodge bullets. He's unable to survive multiple gunshots/melee wounds and repair them. He would most certainly be 100% unable to actually 'hit' any player in AO. A tl2 Shade could pox him.

Yet, even if we entertain for a bit that he is a 'ranged' user we would have to note that he is an overall balanced and well trained individual. In the world of AO, the combat soldier, or rather, this balanced and well trained individual incorporating the best of everything is divided into specialized professions. Combat soldiers such as the Navy Seals/British SAS etc etc are not only expert marksmen but masters of close quarters combat, aka melee users, as well as being trained in demolitions. If we were to compare that main protagonist, or rather the highly trained combat soldier he represents, in that video to professions in AO, he would be a Soldier with Ma attacks and NT triples.

The video I posted demonstrated that someone who is highly trained in MELEE combat can achieve parry movements in a sci-fi setting. A ranged specialist with little to no melee skill would be incapable of performing such movements. So let's not dwell on the capabilities of Solartechs when we are trying to compare and evaluate specialists who's capabilities are limited in the methods they can engage in combat.

Dude, in this movie, he is a priest and only priests I know from AO are MPs. MPs should be modeled to act like this guy. That priest dewd is a ranged user that can parry stuff with ranged weapons (pistols?), so I see no reason why ranged users in AO couldn't parry stuff as well.

Case closed.

Guns have moving parts.

AO guns have no moving parts (except maybe that pere blaster and beamer).

[Ayria]

Melee weapons are simpler devices, designed for hitting things; including hitting other weapons by means of parrying them. Ranged weapons are not.

Yes, hit a boulder with a sword and you'll dent your sword. Sure, it's meant to hit things. But that doesn't mean it will survive the impact.

What about ranged energy? Pew pew lasers (not to mention blobs of plasma...) just do nothing to a blade?

If you want to make the argument that melee weapons are made from some futuristic super hard alloy (which conceivably they are) we can argue that ranged weapons are too and that all the moving parts are safely behind this super-steel casing and won't suffer harm from blocking another bullet or laser etc.

[-XeI20-]

Dude, in this movie, he is a priest and only priests I know from AO are MPs. MPs should be modeled to act like this guy. That priest dewd is a ranged user that can parry stuff with ranged weapons (pistols?), so I see no reason why ranged users in AO couldn't parry stuff as well.

Case closed.

If you say so.

[-XeI20-]

Yes, hit a boulder with a sword and you'll dent your sword. Sure, it's meant to hit things. But that doesn't mean it will survive the impact.

What about ranged energy? Pew pew lasers (not to mention blobs of plasma...) just do nothing to a blade?

If you want to make the argument that melee weapons are made from some futuristic super hard alloy (which conceivably they are) we can argue that ranged weapons are too and that all the moving parts are safely behind this super-steel casing and won't suffer harm from blocking another bullet or laser etc.

If you actually dissect AO and look at it with hard sci-fi eyes, it all fails under scrutiny. For example.
It makes no sense whatsoever that a freakin huge death beam from space would only destroy part of someones HP.
It also makes little sense as to why notum would be needed for nanotech other then AO is just copying the Dune theme.
When one considers the amount of technological advancement within AO, the weapons within it are not only primitive things but unimaginative as well.
Why don't reflects go to 100%?
Why is there a cap on AC's?
Why is technological progress in AO stagnate?
Why don't engie blockers work on their pets?
why does a master of engineering have pets which die so easily?
Why does a soldier reflect better then a master of engineering?

and it goes on and on and on...AO doesn't make sense when you sit down and evaluate it. It's a soft sci-fi mmorpg. Not even it's main theme, nanotechnology, is even remotely 'real' in it's description.

To get at the heart of the issue. The reason melee professions can parry and ranged cannot is simply because melee users have bodies trained to perform melee tasks. Ranged users specialize in steady and precise aim. Melee users train in the action and movement of their body. So, who's going to be able to move their weapon into the path of a bullet. The person who can aim steady and press a trigger, or someone with fast reflexes and a body that's trained to quickly, precisely, and in a most deadly and accurate manner move their weapon to HIT things, things which could be, bullets.

[somenamehere]

Dude, in this movie, he is a priest and only priests I know from AO are MPs. MPs should be modeled to act like this guy. That priest dewd is a ranged user that can parry stuff with ranged weapons (pistols?), so I see no reason why ranged users in AO couldn't parry stuff as well.

Case closed.

Actually he is a pistol agent fp'ing mp, hence no pets. Other than that i agree. :P

[Klod9000]

Anyways, why introducing additional set of blockers, now when you gonna nerf specials anyways?

Can't you guys start with the real balancing already (you know, GTH/Constant Barrage/triples/infinite nano/dumb pets/crowd control/support profession's perks/etc rework)?

[enakur]

Parry
General duration will be 10 seconds.
Based on your Parry skill (and having a martial arts/melee weapon equipped) you will acquire a new action (like Backstab) that enables you to parry/block both regular and special attacks for the duration of the action. As your skill in Parry increases, your chances to negate damage from regular and special attacks during the active time of the Parry action increases. As your Parry skill increases the cooldown of this action will also decrease. The Parry action will always negate the damage of at least one attack…how many additional attacks are parried will entirely depend on your skill.

Riposte
Riposte is an active melee/martial arts action that will do damage based on your Riposte skill. A Riposte is a quick counter-attack based on a temporary opening offered by an off-balance attack by your opponent. An attack by your opponent will “activate” your Riposte ability giving you a short window of time to use it to inflict additional damage on an in-range target. This will not be a “huge” damage special but more of an active combat action that is available often during the course of regular combat. Individual player skill in taking advantage of this action will be a significant factor in how effective it can be.

Go on build the Melee Engineer, it is not like they do damage...I believe the Engies can do more damage with Ranged weapons.

We forgot to mention that Parry/Riposte will work based off of the IP spent in their respective skills and will NOT be tied to a "weapons special" in the same sense that Burst/Fling Shot/ect. ect. are. The only requirement to use Parry or Riposte will be that you have a melee weapon (and yes, the MA fists weapons will count) equipped - Whether or not this weapon has "Parry" listed as a special attack will be a moot point, as this is an entirely new system and not tied to the older attempts at making Parry/Riposte work.

Spent Ip in the skill, but how about the Nano programs that Keepers have to selfbuff these skills?

Parry will work vs. ranged (yes, MAs, you can finally imagine that you're yanking bullets out of thin air with your fingertips) - It's a few thousand years into the future, we figure that people who are advanced enough to use nanobots to completely transform themselves into other creatures can *probably* strengthen a sword/stick/whatever to block a bullet. Riposte, however, will require that the target be within melee range for the attack.

I'm happy to see that Kintaii does indeed have the bravery to get Riposte and Parry skill back into this game.
Eventhough so many players already sent those hate replies before actually seeing the revamped skills in action.
I'm looking forward to see them work on Test

[SSK]

Dude, in this movie, he is a priest and only priests I know from AO are MPs. MPs should be modeled to act like this guy. That priest dewd is a ranged user that can parry stuff with ranged weapons (pistols?), so I see no reason why ranged users in AO couldn't parry stuff as well.

Case closed.

He's clerk, not priest. And clerks are more crats than MPs Crats have some nice evades and pistols, so i see no reason why crats shouldn't parry with them

It's funny how -XeI20- tried to show proof of working melee parry and posted ranged parry example

[-XeI20-]

It's funny how -XeI20- tried to show proof of working melee parry and posted ranged parry example

I just don't understand how this is so hard for people to understand. That cleric is like a navy seal. A navy seal is a specialist of ranged, melee, and demolitions!!!!

The video I posted showed a specialist of melee combat using parries. He also happens to be a specialist of ranged weapons as well. The movements used to parry are dependent on his close quarters combat skills not his ability to pew pew, laik omgawd people, this is 2+2 stuff when talking about combat!!!

AO's professions specialise in either melee OR ranged. Not both!!

Freakin A this is tiresome.

[Klod9000]

AO's professions specialise in either melee OR ranged. Not both!!

Really? What about PE/rifle agents and SoZ/Tigress MPs?