Friday with Means - September 11th, 2009 - Video Q&A, Sceenies and Info-Nuggets

[Esproc]

Due to BS I've been seeing more and more people rolling neut for pvp, as it "fix's" the problem of not having enough people on one side or the other.

You could argue that sides are for RP'ers and neut for pvp'ers.

Personally I play omni and don't RP at all, but the point could be made

Don't hate on the neuts though, how else we s'pose to check the other sides GMS ^^
Granted we aren't that's why we can't just walk in with the opposing faction xD

[drops]

People (including you) give others grief daily for picking the wrong breed for a profession, citing "reroll" as the option.

Additionally, the lack of care for those who spend IP points wrong, perk this, for choosing the wrong lines. There is no mercy, no compassion, no care for those who make such mistakes, be they are easily fixable with IPRs & Perk resets for pvp.

Yet you actually expect someone to care at all about people who are too dim to "change sides" something that has been possible for as long as there was a game to remember to a side more effective for PvP?

Big words from a small troll. Care to come with some proof? Show me where/what did I "grief" daily. Please.

Arrogance. Utter nonsense. Insanity. That is what describes your behavior, actions and demands.

This. Is. You.

Neutrals are NOT now or ever have been an intended PvP side and yet you sit here as a child banging your hands on the ground in a temper tantrum about how life is soooo unfair that you lack items that are only important for PvP really? I mean really now. I wish you weren't so thick headed as you see how utterly infantile you and the rest of your "Neutral troll squad" seem to the rest of us who wanted to PvP since day one and picked our sides accordingly.

Now I truly suggest you "troll" return to under YOUR bridge. Where you belong.

Come on now. Xp mods, HP mods, CL mods, runspeed mods. That's more important for pvm than for pvp.
10/10 for your rhetorics though, as expected from xaun.

[Ayria]

Neutrals are NOT now or ever have been an intended PvP side

Good post until this paragraph.

You want to talk about arrogance and then have the audacity and stupidity to make claims like this?

You do NOT decide the fate of anything in this game. If Means, or upcoming GD, ever decides that Neutral is intended for PvP it is not for you to say they can't.

If Means wants to add stuff, be it of his own uninfluenced ambition or based on a player suggestion, that makes Neutrals more viable in PvP he can do so and it doesn't matter one wit what you want or think.

Furthermore: if people want to request changes they have every right to do so no matter what their choices were. Does the state of the game since launch change you requesting things? I don't see you just cowering in the dark corners of the forum waiting to see what Funcom adds, you make suggestions just like the rest of us. Why do you think your suggestions should be heeded and others be ignored?

Oh, that's right. You're just that kind of person who can't stand other people getting something you have. I'm sure we can all think of the word that describes you.

[Aethyrguard]

....

Good post until this paragraph.

You do NOT decide the fate of anything in this game. If Means, or upcoming GD, ever decides that Neutral is intended for PvP it is not for you to say they can't.

It was always intended that neutral as a side should, as primarily an RP choice, not be an equal power to the two main factions of Omni and Clan. The existance of a third alternative makes for interesting politicking within the population and leads to unforseen changes in the immediate balance of power. This will continue to be true in the forseeable future.

Read ^^

Additionally, Ayria, I did not say anything about the future. I referred to the past and present.

[drops]

I've read. So? I'm not asking for pvp love, I'm asking for pvm love.

[Ayria]

Read ^^

You read first.

Just because Neutral will never be equal doesn't mean they shouldn't get improvements.

(Omni/Clan = 1.000) != (0.999 = Neutral)

Neutral has every right to come just shy of equal, and if you want to take what Means said literally there is no logic or argument you can make that says otherwise. You want to cling to that quote; you deal with what it says, not with what you want it to say.

Edit: Additionally, if you were only talking about the past and present why make a big stink out of anything at all? If you won't oppose future improvements why argue now?

[Aethyrguard]

You read first.

Just because Neutral will never be equal doesn't mean they shouldn't get improvements.

(Omni/Clan = 1.000) != (0.999 = Neutral)

Neutral has every right to come just shy of equal, and if you want to take what Means said literally there is no logic or argument you can make that says otherwise. You want to cling to that quote; you deal with what it says, not with what you want it to say.

You are victim of your own rhetoric with this post. You are now placing your failure on my post when it is your post that contains it. You are stating what you believe the difference of power should or should not be. I am not putting words in Mean's mouth. I am making a direct unaltered unabridged uncommented quotation. Interpret it however you see fit. I see it as following in line with the original intent of the side and the lack of a token board ever since players begged for its ability to level past TL2. Please for the love of sanity stop putting words in my mouth, stop making assumptions and above all else get off your righteous can do no wrong high horse about game suggestions. I have am not someone who only supports their own initiatives as you would like to portrait me. I have even bumped some of your suggestions.

[Aethyrguard]

Edit: Additionally, if you were only talking about the past and present why make a big stink out of anything at all? If you won't oppose future improvements why argue now?

Because, I agree with the original purpose of Neutrals? I believe they never should have been allowed to level past TL2? I believe their existence as a side has stepped on the toes of Clan RP/storyline and identity? Because I believe that what has happened since Gaute made the mistakes he made (not the only one) including changing how they are allowed to enter PvP and own towers a blasphemy? has only served to dilute this game on every level? Funcom has since rid themself of him. I only wish it was done sooner.

[Dancingrage]

The power of docs to heal and mitigate damage and the usefulness (or lack thereof) of some professions in a raid situation are 2 completely different problems. Changing docs effectiveness in pvm will do absolutely nothing to make people want an MP, fixer, or agent in their pande or (insert raid instance here) team. Nerfing a doc (or a crat or an enfo) in pvm will change one thing - the number of docs (or crats) required to complete a raid.

If the problem is that too many professions are useless in raid situations, then the obvious solution is to give them tools that make them useful, viable alternatives to the currently "required" professions and not to nerf the professions that are currently required. Some possible examples

Means has said more than once that crats are and will continue to be important additions to raid teams because of their ability to mitigate damage (init debuffs, boss calms, etc)
Finding a creative way to give some of the currently "useless" professions weaker (but still useful) versions of some of these tools might make them viable alternatives to a crat when none can be found to do a raid. We currently see this with keepers/fixers. 12 man teams would rather have a keeper, but in a pinch a fixer will get the job done, but not quite as easily as a keeper.

Giving agents access to the SL doc heals up the level 214 or possibly 216 heal. In this way, if for some reason you couldn't locate a top notch doc for a raid, an agent or two, or an agent and a weaker doc would work well enough. We currently see this in the vortexx instance - if you can't find a doc, a couple of advs in concert with a crat will get the job done just fine, although not quite as easily as a doc can.

Of course, the dark side here is that by giving other professions access to these tools, there is the potential for drastically OPing other professions in pvp. I'm sure that with some creativity, however, that such problems can be miminized or avoided, especially considering that means seems committed to removing the ridiculous OPing of any one profession in the long term.

and I'm not saying dont nerf a docs pvm ability EVER...im just saying that changing a doc's pvp effectiveness isn't appropriate until you solve the problem that necessitates their current level PVM of effectiveness.

MPs have suggested as part of their rebalancing that the 'must have' but crappy perkline Soothing Spirits add a percentage heal to the healpet as well as the normal heal. Hit point totals have skyrocketed beyond all belief in the last few years and it's really hard for MPs to keep up when you have Belamorte's .6-1k heal on a 10k+ HP tank or 1.2k-1.6k heal on a 70k HP tank. Adding up to 10-15% percentage heal for perk 10 in Soothing Spirits would give MPs more flexibility without completely replacing a doctor's healing ability, but if you have an MP handy then it's now a useful healing option instead of a drop in the bucket.

I think that fixers have wanted something similar in the Long HOT line as well. It doesn't need to be as high as MP's request, since it's a HoT, but healing viability in the game where numbers are slowly but surely going through the roof would be something to help balance out the fact that damage incoming is higher now than when some of the professions' toolsets were updated last (for MPs, SL.) in the healing department.

The good thing about the percentage heal idea for MPs is that it gives MP ability to heal tanks effectively while not being so overpowered that they're totally unkillable in pvp as a result.

I'm not against a heal nerf, but I want to hear details before I say yea or nay.

[Ayria]

You are using Means' quote to support your own initiatives. You first state that Neutrals should not receive improvements and when challenged bring forth a quote stating that Neutrals should not be equal.

Means' quote does not state Neutrals should not get any love, if all you're doing is "making a direct unaltered unabridged uncommented quotation" then quote and be done with it. Why persist in peppering everything further with your opinion?

Oh, because you're not just making an unabridged quotation, you're fighting for your side using Means' quote as some "I Win" button. I do hope it is only a matter of time before you realize that it isn't.

[drops]

I believe they never should have been allowed to level past TL2?

Gospel after xaun: neuts should not be allowed to reach lvl 50.
I don't know if I should laugh at you or buy you some Prozac.

[Aethyrguard]

You are using Means' quote to support your own initiatives. You first state that Neutrals should not receive improvements and when challenged bring forth a quote stating that Neutrals should not be equal.

Means' quote does not state Neutrals should not get any love, if all you're doing is "making a direct unaltered unabridged uncommented quotation" then quote and be done with it.

I am doing no such thing. I am not stating Neutrals should get no love. I am stating the simply shouldn't exist past TL2, be incapable of engaging in PvP, have little to no place in RP, etc. I fully support a forced side change for all Neutrals to Omni or Clan and the original TL2 lock restored. That is what I am saying. I am sorry if you were confused.

As for what will happen since I doubt any game director is willing to deal with the crying nonsense that would ensue after such a decision were made to restore AO's integrity utterly, rather keep the boat afloat as long as possible, I am defending the few remaining benefits Sided folk have. We were promised long ago Neutrals would NEVER come anywhere close to Sides. That sides would ALWAYS be the "chosen and Faithful" in terms of RP, PvP and content.

Sadly, since Neutrals have been given the post TL2 treatment that followed, all of those things, RP/Storyline, PvP encounters and Sided Content, have fallen all but to the way side serving only to produce a hollow shell of the game that once was. You can see it in almost every post in these forums from non trolls who come here out of frustration the first time only to be met with sarcasm and cynicism in kind. I am no angel. I make mistakes, post things sometimes I regret later. But I will NEVER regret my stance on this topic regarding Neutrals. I've played this damn game way to long to feel sorry for people who stayed Neutral and beg more and more for sided content for themselves when those who did pick a side rarely see any themselves.

[drops]

random bs

Care to come with some proof? Stop spewing so much nonsense only because some neuts took your swb field last year.

[Aethyrguard]

Care to come with some proof? Stop spewing so much nonsense only because some neuts took your swb field last year.

Excuse me? How long have you been playing? Anyone who's played the game longer than a few years should know these things I am saying as empirical fact. I am sorry if you are new. Please spend some time searching through the "Archives" thread. I don't have time to waste on such things since I saw them when they were still new. And what the hell are you talking about? Some neuts took a field of ours? Interesting. How long did they hold it? Wait was that less than a day? Oh right that was a "neutral response" to something Kabulla posted right? Funny that you keep flaunting a single lost base (tl2 LOL) to some neutrals how many years ago when the base was taken when no one was online? Interesting. On the scale of fail, you rank epically.

[Ayria]

I am doing no such thing. I am not stating Neutrals should get no love. I am stating the simply shouldn't exist past TL2, be incapable of engaging in PvP, have little to no place in RP, etc. I fully support a forced side change for all Neutrals to Omni or Clan and the original TL2 lock restored.

Until such time as you can procure a direct quote from Means stating explicitly that Neutrals should be as you describe all you have is your opinion and desire driven by a very clear to see superiority complex and bringing forth Means' quote as support for it is faulty and rather crass.

What happened in the past is irrelevant, just because Neutrals used to be restricted to TL2 does not mean that they should have stayed that way or that they should be that way again.

Just because something was done in the past, doesn't mean it was the right way to do things. Plenty of examples can be brought up that show that. Why do you insist that the past way of treating Neutrals is the right way?

[Aethyrguard]

Until such time as you can procure a direct quote from Means stating explicitly that Neutrals should be as you describe all you have is your opinion and desire driven by a very clear to see superiority complex and bringing forth Means' quote as support for it is faulty and rather crass.

What happened in the past is irrelevant, just because Neutrals used to be restricted to TL2 does not mean that they should have stayed that way or that they should be that way again.

Just because something was done in the past, doesn't mean it was the right way to do things. Plenty of examples can be brought up that show that. Why do you insist that the past way of treating Neutrals is the right way?

I am not stating my opinion is Funcom's. As a matter of fact I am stating that my opinion about how Neutrals should be is rather in direct contradiction with the actions taken regarding neutrals since the days Gaute screwed things all up. I really wonder if you even read anything in that post. I am, however, quoting Means own words and leaving it up to you to interpret their meaning. It is rather clear to me what is meant by them. What happened in the past is NOT irrelevant when things that "happened in the past" are supposedly being looked at to be fixed in the future. Sadly, I doubt "Fixing" neutrals back to a TL2 locked "introductory observational temporary side" won't be on the agenda. /sad panda face.

However, I quoted Means to specifically counter some nonsense you posted, which, his post does on it's own with no additional words from me. I do love ya tho Ayria you are amusing to say the least.

[Camista]

docs having more trouble keeping their nano up seems like a good change, cause atm they can just spam dots and heals while in full CC and their nano bar will still barely move.

Wrong.

Docs can spam heals and dots and their nano bar barely moves if they've worked hard at their setup. Before I made a concerted effort to make -cost my number one priority after nano skills, I had real nanopool issues. I worked hard on my equip and maximized -cost and nano delta, sometimes at the expense of other things. So yeah, my nanopool problems are gone because I made choices that allowed for that. Why do I deserve the nerf bat for doing so?

[Ayria]

Troll Dodge

Answer the question I asked don't just post more nonsense.

Why do you want Neutrals to return to their "TL2 Max" state? I think it was the wrong way to go, I don't think Neutrals should have ever been singled out like that; I want to know why you think they should be.

[Aethyrguard]

Answer the question I asked don't just post more nonsense.

Why do you want Neutrals to return to their "TL2 Max" state? I think it was the wrong way to go, I don't think Neutrals should have ever been singled out like that; I want to know why you think they should be.

Since you didn't ask that question before now how could I have answered it? Where did I claim clairvoyance? I have stated not only numerous times in general but particularly in this thread alone why I feel they should return to their TL2 max state. Had you of read my posts instead of hitting the quote button and just beginning to type you would have realized this. Please see below.

Because, I agree with the original purpose of Neutrals? I believe they never should have been allowed to level past TL2? I believe their existence as a side has stepped on the toes of Clan RP/storyline and identity? Because I believe that what has happened since Gaute made the mistakes he made (not the only one) including changing how they are allowed to enter PvP and own towers a blasphemy? has only served to dilute this game on every level? Funcom has since rid themself of him. I only wish it was done sooner.

As for what will happen since I doubt any game director is willing to deal with the crying nonsense that would ensue after such a decision were made to restore AO's integrity utterly, rather keep the boat afloat as long as possible, I am defending the few remaining benefits Sided folk have. We were promised long ago Neutrals would NEVER come anywhere close to Sides. That sides would ALWAYS be the "chosen and Faithful" in terms of RP, PvP and content.

Sadly, since Neutrals have been given the post TL2 treatment that followed, all of those things, RP/Storyline, PvP encounters and Sided Content, have fallen all but to the way side serving only to produce a hollow shell of the game that once was. You can see it in almost every post in these forums from non trolls who come here out of frustration the first time only to be met with sarcasm and cynicism in kind. I am no angel. I make mistakes, post things sometimes I regret later. But I will NEVER regret my stance on this topic regarding Neutrals. I've played this damn game way to long to feel sorry for people who stayed Neutral and beg more and more for sided content for themselves when those who did pick a side rarely see any themselves.

That promise was made after an outrage from players regarding the change.

[Esproc]

Some people are hung up on the old standby of A vs. B.
Adding in variables or alternatives confuses and frightens them.

So what if the scabs are ruining the worker union strike?
Business is business.

There I met my RP quota for this lifetime, I expect overtime for anything further.