Friday with Means - August 28th, 2009 - The joys of jetlag

[shadowgod]

Quote from the last time I went to test (Dec 16th, 2008):

and yet.. something else i know i've done everything except outright demand....

a way to test BS stuff. not like it'd be that difficult for them to make a copy of that zone without a timer/time limit. that people could go on/leave as they want to test things there.

as there have been countless times i wanted to more scientifically test pet issues on the BS. but kinda difficult to do when you're the only soul on testlive.


i think they really need to appoint a "Test Director" of such.. who can better coordinate and actually get some testing methods implimented there. and this person could then be director of beta tests as well. since those have always been underwhelming when it comes to direction and what-to-test-before-it-hits-live-and-its-all-horribly-broken.

[Mekh]

...snip...
i think they really need to appoint a "Test Director" of such.. who can better coordinate and actually get some testing methods implimented there. and this person could then be director of beta tests as well. since those have always been underwhelming when it comes to direction and what-to-test-before-it-hits-live-and-its-all-horribly-broken.

This...!

[raw_fox]

lol, yeah, zombi jetlag Means ..

what about /zombi emote ?

If you get back the second time in some days, the dev guys should motion capture you :P

btw, lots of players are willing to play their char on testlife.
therefor, the charactercopy to test, has to work properly, what is not the case actually.

Over that, i guess - especially to some related issues/exploits - that you want to clear up the character databases first
Im sure, that the testlive character copy works after that

[Mastablasta]

No.. nodrop items can't be traded on test, no you are not 220 in full gear right after character creation, no we don't get some GM buffs just for lulz.. test is like live (here is the main problem), except a lot less people and usually newer patch.

You can transfer any character to the server :| don't you have a bunch of chars ready for this or that already to just go there and ++?

[Darkbane]

I see your team has been playing WoW again...

Opi are gnomes in disguise?

QFT!

Test SUCKS, Funcom why don't you help us test instead of insisting we grind to test stuff so that we can grind it again on Live!!

Um, isn't that what transfer was implemented to avoid? (When it works that is... )

The whole basis of testing is to test, not to work up to where you can test or run through the program from start to end. When you want to test function 515 you load the program at 515 and test; you don't start it at 1 and tell people they have to work through it each time you change something. Do you test things that way in office? (Maybe this explains the massive delay of LE...) Why do you expect free testers who are donating their time to you to do it that way?

There's a place for focused testing (and more could be done in that area), but any MMO (especially one as old as AO) is such a maze of tangled bits that you need people just playing normally as well.

You have the power on Test (and on Live but nobody should expect shortcuts there) to make things easier, help out instead of hiding behind this veil of propriety. You can jump people levels up and down, you can give items, you can give anything you want. Jump people to Function 515 and let them loose, they'll get the instance or zone or boss fight or w/e done and can tell you how it acts and what they think of it.

Expecting people to spend hours and hours on Test (that they could be spending on Live getting their moneys worth) working towards testing is asinine when you can jump them straight to testing.

Except people wont. They'll pop on, get their "xyz", check out the "abc" and bugger off until the next patch, without anything much actually getting tested.

There are always exceptions of course, but those are rare.

And downlevelling people is liable to break them, up is do-able of course

My rant was more of an ideallic view of things. The reality is that most of the Live players who come to Test are intentionally disruptive, very demanding, rude, crude and act like they own the place. Over the years this had lead to the situation we have right now where test is very insular, small poped, and frankly sometimes downright hostile to outsiders.. because most outsiders were nothing but trouble and didnt contribute to the team. Think about it this way. This entire game is essentially an EGO-TRIP (total recall style) so just about all of us on live have massive egos to fit well in the big ocean of live. However on Test, your ego is so big you cant even get your head into the pool.

They use the grind as a means of pushing away the kinds of people who wont test things well. Also there are people on there to help you BHs are on when they can be and CoTs are too. The thing is the staffing of people who can help out on Test is numerically pretty small. They are also ARKs, which means they are giving their time for free too. Also Test is a great place to see just how bad AOs servers will be just before they close down... nobody about.


Ideally, Funcom would be more directly involved in the day to day of Test.
Ideally, the player base would have the maturity needed to operate on Test without being nothing but trouble
Ideally, FC would have Test Days and boosts would be handed out to test specific things.
Ideally, we could get some kind of social reward for Testing on Live to show our dedication to AO.

Overall Test has some problems that are not just related to Test itself but to the nature of our community itself that cause more problems. Lack of proper testing has always been an issue.

PS... I want my Compiler Cube because Compainon Cubes are for L00zers.

That's about the sum total of it. For every genuinely helpful and friendly person you get, you get several who are a) rude b) demanding c) unfriendly d) all of the above.

More could be done with test than currently is, it's far from perfect for it's primary purpose, but stuff like that takes resources.

the really interesting thing is. they have the char transfer system to copy live chars to testlive.

however, every few weeks or so, after they "fix it", something else breaks. last i recall, unless they finally "fixed it" again, copies will over write any testlive characters you might have with same name, instead of adding a number to end of the new copy's name.

so the copy system stays broken more than not. towhich, i cant imagine why!

An ongoing issue sadly...

and yet.. something else i know i've done everything except outright demand....

a way to test BS stuff. not like it'd be that difficult for them to make a copy of that zone without a timer/time limit. that people could go on/leave as they want to test things there.

as there have been countless times i wanted to more scientifically test pet issues on the BS. but kinda difficult to do when you're the only soul on testlive.

i think they really need to appoint a "Test Director" of such.. who can better coordinate and actually get some testing methods implimented there. and this person could then be director of beta tests as well. since those have always been underwhelming when it comes to direction and what-to-test-before-it-hits-live-and-its-all-horribly-broken.

Having someone more responsible for test and it's day-to-day running would no doubt be helpful, but AO is a pretty small game with a pretty small team, so much as I'd like to see that, I'm not holding my breath.

You can transfer any character to the server :| don't you have a bunch of chars ready for this or that already to just go there and ++?

When it works...

[Worldofalts]

Soo, is character transfer a move from live to test, or a copy placed on test and the original toon stays on live?

if its a move... pftt, aint happenin!

[Vhax]

*shudder* My words of advice, link statically!!

Static linking between code compiled in different compilers (and against different libraries)?
You really want it to break don't you?
Don't do it. DON'T EVER DO IT!

[Darkbane]

Soo, is character transfer a move from live to test, or a copy placed on test and the original toon stays on live?

if its a move... pftt, aint happenin!

When it is working, it's a copy.

[Lheann]

Well the Funcom Q2 2009 Financial Report is out as of 26 Aug 09. The news of AO in the report as always is limited to a total of 3 lines. But those lines tell it all. "Slowly declining revenue..."

The Q2 report is clear AO reveue is declining. That indicates 1) fewer paid account 2) lower in game ad revenue 3) both. What is clear in a business view is that anything doing with AO revenue is not even attributed to as a primary driver of the next quarters total revenue. Hey they stated it in the report even or indirectly as they listed the primary drivers and AO was not part of them.

We all want the game to have a great deal fixed or added. I get the impression lately that the work in progress is all that is planned. Think it is an AO rehab and re-release this fall just before Xmas. It makes good sense. Release this fall and if by 9th Bday AO is not better off than at the 8th bday then it can die a noble death.

With that out of the way what I want from Means is an idea of what we can expect this year. So far it sounds like:
New 150-200 play field (18.x)
Profession balancing (18.x)
New Social Stuff (18.x)
New Engine and goodies that go with it (i bet it will be 19.0)
Advertising blitz when engine released

I could care less about jet lag. Kintaii's post felt insightful and lifted the veil over funcom. They were like Means first few FWM post. A year later FWM fells like I am reading his myspace or facebook blog. He has lost the edge it had. The inclusion of new game art or screen captures is nice. Would like to see the images/captures as a regular item.

And on the Test Server subject. Spent 3 years there. When I came back to RK1 full time I was utterly shocked to see that I had no clue how the game was actually being played on live. I still fear that all the testing I did was in vain to some degree as the content was played differently in live.

As to comment about a test server dreaded character wipe. Was there for the ONLY one they ever did. FC was very good about getting people back up to levels needed to test the content considering everyone was level 1 again. Honestly the characer wipe turned out to be one of the funnest moments in the game for me. It was release day (re-do) but with 2 years of game knowledge.

All is not well with Rubi-Ka and the players know it. FC has not reported AO as a primary revenue source in a very long time. The team is small and made up of former players who like the playerbase are hardcore about AO. I think it is all telling. What it is saying I am not certain yet. But even if we are being told the truth it does not mean it is a the whole truth.

[Darkbane]

And on the Test Server subject. Spent 3 years there. When I came back to RK1 full time I was utterly shocked to see that I had no clue how the game was actually being played on live. I still fear that all the testing I did was in vain to some degree as the content was played differently in live.

That's the other side of the coin of course, and why the transfer *is* at least potentially useful, even if it doesn't always work out that way (there have, as I mentioned before, been exceptions, and a few more live players who are prepared to spend the time on testlive would be welcome... though you may find it easier to organise among yourselves, as test can be fairly quiet, and as said, live AO is a different game).

[Ayria]

Except people wont. They'll pop on, get their "xyz", check out the "abc" and bugger off until the next patch, without anything much actually getting tested.

While this is true it has it's underlying reasons.

I was talking with someone about beta testers earlier today and we covered the basis that testers want something for their efforts. Generally, at least in the case we were discussing, the testers would get a free version of whatever they were testing once it was complete. This meant that people who wanted "free" stuff would come and test and would have to test in order to earn their reward.

It's the standard concept of a job. You do work, you get reward. Happy kid with cookie. (/me fends off cookie thieves with random laces of cyanide)

But in AO not only are we getting absolutely nothing for our testing efforts we actually have to pay to have access to it. And after that, you get no help testing things. We know that leveling works, we know that loot works, we know that AXP and Research and SK and missions and hecklers work; it all works it's all "tested" daily.

We should be out there testing the stuff that's new this patch (or at least the past couple patches) not stuff that was added in V 1.00 (ie leveling..) just because Funcom doesn't want to level boost people without them first grinding Bugsy points or w/e.

It's their attitude that they owe us nothing and the fact that WE PAY THEM to test that makes people only want to jump in for a sneak peak instead of stick around and actually help.

I am not sorry for my stand point or that I am not selfless enough to test. I want AO to succeed, I want the population to bloom and things to come out stable and fair. But none of this is possible for us to do without Funcom's help.

[Mistiz]

The whole anarchy online dying this is very sad IMO, considering that there isnt a single mmo like it out there atm.

Actually, once I give this some thought, why doesnt AO attract more players? Might it be the fact that updates are so rare and small? I mean, what other mmo has guns, three pet classes, and the smooth type of combat system that AO has? Nothing.

The reason I really don't want to play WoW, for example, is that no class really appeals to me. They have no fixer class. No soldier class. No engineer class. Hell, they have nothing.

I suppose Shadowgod was right when criticizing me somewhere above.

Lastly, I would still like to repeat my request for a prioritized list from Means on what excatly will be released first. Unless it will all be one huge chunk ofc.

[Saetos]

Actually, once I give this some thought, why doesnt AO attract more players?.

Graphics and steep learning curve.

I don't mind either, but a lot of other gamers do, especially in an age where some games coming out today you could swear were shot with a real camera instead of drawn by a computer.

[heruharoth]

I think the reason AO has so little players is this: it leaves new players clueless.

If you google "deepest MMO" and check various forum threads, it's like this: 1st - Eve Online. 2nd - Anarchy Online. Difference? Eve Online has a much b etter tutorial, a very active advice channel, and very deep in-game help files.

This is a rant in which I try to express the point of view of the people who find AO too confusing to even get a paid account to rant about it in the forums.

I advice Funcom to not release the new engine on its own. New people may come to see it, but they wont stay for it. And it wont make the fact that this game is one of the toughest MMO's on newcomers, ok.

You have to, please, smooth down the learning curve of the game first; make it a gentle slope instead of this freaking obelisk you somehow have to climb while somebody at the top throws water at ya;

Don't lower the curve...smooth it down...the slope needs to end at the same height as the obelisk we have now. I dont mind the game being hard to master, I even want that...but hard to learn? :S

The game makes us check 3rd party websites (some of them are amazing) more that any other I've ever played.

Here are a few examples of "how the heck was I supposed to know that?!" Moments I had starting out (about 3 months ago):

- What possible reason would I have to visit that outpost in the Lush Fields if I didnt already know about the shoulderpad quest, from, guess what, a 3rd party website?

- Where the heck is something in game that explains what a type 1 action means?? How do I know if it's better than other type 1 actions of the same type (heals, for example)?

- And that map AO comes with? :X Are you planning to make this game hard on purpose? :S

- Symbiants...where on rubi-ka or the shadowlands does someone explain how to make them? Ergo gives some vague hints, but...again, we are forced to alt-tab, or play in a window, for the info we need. :X

- If I check the info of a nano that increases my run speed by 20 points, am I supposed to assume that the time it takes to execute that program is its "attack speed"? Even when it's not a hostile action at all, or a weapon of any kind? (Nevermind the fact that speed is not measured in seconds) :S I know now that I am, but is it necessary to confuse people? :S This wont become WoW if you change that to casting time or something.

- I farmed the elysium dynas that were listed as pocket bosses (I didnt know where that name came from then, but ok, on I went, using a map from....another 3rd party.) in aopocket, waiting for symbiants to drop, just like they did in Nascence. But all I kept finding was these freaking patterns, which I thought would be part of some recipe; i left them on the bodies, always. I must've found like 30 before I thought something was odd and googled "ao symbiants", which would lead to the ao universe page about how to make them, where I realized........this was by far the most frustrating bit.

I'm sorry about the rant, and I know I'm ranting about details...but it's how I felt as a newcomer. A lot (most?) people don't stay. My best friend didnt, no matter how I tried to convince him -- he said it was too complicated. He went back to playing an MMO which doesnt even have dungeons, just open fields, 3 classes but some simple and awesome RvR.

I would say it's very rewarding to learn how to play this game. But it's very cruel at leaving newcomers clueless, and that, I feel is the reason less players are playing each day. That fact is the reason most Battlestations dont work, and it is the reason why it's harder to find a team.

Since most people in the forums are veteran players, I dont think they see this as the root of the problem when they whine about not being able to find teams or getting enough VP from BS.

Because, running around in your twink or uber characters, most of you dont think "I wonder how the newbs are doing...how many of them are gonna stay for more than one month? How many of them will even leave newb island? I know so much about this game, yet when people ask something on OOC, i tell them press alt-f4, or just ignore them...I have farming to do, which probably will be over when there's like 100 people on the server."

Your best reason to focus on trying to bring more players into the game? It manages to be a a problem, an effect of other problems, and a cause to many other problems.

Please, Funcom -- focus on making this game easier on newcomers, because a new engine wont make them stay. I love AO for its uniqueness. I wish it the best, and the recognition it truly deserves.

[heruharoth]

also forgive the wall of text

[shadowgod]

I suppose Shadowgod was right when criticizing me somewhere above.

wouldnt say it was being critical, as alot of people have this belief. even my own day job, i'm something of a jack-of-all-trades.

rather, think of it as, "a correction in an abrupt manner".

[sjefstab]

Hey Means, hope u had a nice trip and all. Not to pee on ur rainbowz n shieez but please take a peek. This is what happens when you make faves.

fix now or bai.

[Technogen]

fix now or bai.

Bai (Ps, real people spell it bye, but dont let that stop your QQ.)

[spookiepants]

Well the Funcom Q2 2009 Financial Report is out as of 26 Aug 09. The news of AO in the report as always is limited to a total of 3 lines. But those lines tell it all. "Slowly declining revenue..."

Same message to the investors as last quarter. Now watch the cheerleaders put their heads in the sand and call you a doom sayer for posting this.

Prepare to be chastised.

[drainbamage]

Actually, once I give this some thought, why doesnt AO attract more players?

Grind heavy
Poor balance (and I don't just mean in PVP)
Outdated engine
Primitive combat