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Thread: More info on LLTS nerf

  1. #21
    Originally posted by Cz
    Liltechie, won't you be able to go with lower agg-def and still attack at 1sec/1sec then? That gives better defensive skills at least.
    That wont help on the damage of the gun.
    ~Lone

  2. #22
    Sheffy, I will take the IPR discussion with Customer Service and the designers (probably the Game Director) later. I hope we can get some kind of agreement there, but can't promise anything.

  3. #23
    Originally posted by Noer
    That wont help on the damage of the gun.
    But it will help you in battle, won't it?

  4. #24
    2 IPR is not enough. Yes it will help for the scope. But a lot will have to change weapon aswell as there are no viable options left in that weapon-type.

    But it will help you a battle, won't it?
    Again, I think you should see someone fight with those guns and having no crit.
    Last edited by LoneWolf; Oct 2nd, 2002 at 11:19:34.
    ~Lone

  5. #25
    Originally posted by Noer
    2 IPR is not enough. Yes it will help for the scope. But a lot will have to change weapon aswell as there are no viable options left in that weapon-type.
    /summon 300 people to tell noer why home defender is really a great gun
    Probably Untitled "Tantrum"
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  6. #26
    Originally posted by Noer
    2 IPR is not enough. Yes it will help for the scope. But a lot will have to change weapon aswell as there are no viable options left in that weapon-type.
    5 IPR would work...everyone that use shotgun need to change weapons cuz most shotguns will be totally useless.


    Cz, will you change a ql200 LLTS to have same crit % as a ql250 VE or as a ql200?
    Azzazzimon
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    Account closed.

  7. #27
    Cz, could you comment on my post on page 1, please?

    How about it?

    Wouldn't reducing the crit chance in general, no matter what you have equiped, be a better idea than nerfing LLTS?

    That is, if the reasons for it are those you stated earlier.

    Jayhawk

  8. #28

    Arrow

    Hmm, I'm not convinced about totally removing the init penalty and even giving a bonus, but they should certainly be reduced. There should be some disadvantages to using this after all, a trade off - though maybe reducing defence might be better (your concentrating on hitting the target and therefore paying less attention to avoiding damage).

    Adding a bonus to ranged weapon skills would be a good idea and in keeping with the item. This would also boost damage automatically. This might be too powerful for OE though, so boost the player's Attack Rating instead.

    The only other comment - this should have been done when these stopped dropping.
    "Do not try and catch the hamster... that's impossible. Instead only try to realize the truth... There is no hamster, only a deadbeat rollerat..."

    [Social] Means: I don't think we removed any bosses because of bad pathing...there wouldnt be any left if we did :P

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  9. #29
    Azzazzimon, good question. I'll check on that.

  10. #30
    Originally posted by Noer
    2 IPR is not enough. Yes it will help for the scope. But a lot will have to change weapon aswell as there are no viable options left in that weapon-type.
    What if they added new weapons in those types, that did work well without crits?

    What weapon types are we talking about here?
    Shotguns! Pistols?

  11. #31

    i think this is the life and death part:

    dont drop the crit chance on any scope below 8%...doing it like you did the bracers will leave us with scopes that were 3%-no nano init penalty becoming 0% (VE starts at ql 100)...

    the testers dont feel that scopes become overpowered until 8%...or so thats the impression i get...then dont do a sweeping "by QL" change and leave most of them useless...every scope up to level 100 would be 1%...there are many many scopes out there below ql 100 with good crit chance that is below 8%...

    what am i saying, itll be just like bracers, why do i bother?

    *sigh*

    ..krok

  12. #32
    Originally posted by Dhurdahl


    What if they added new weapons in those types, that did work well without crits?

    What weapon types are we talking about here?
    Shotguns! Pistols?
    Shotguns. Not that the game couldn't use some non-adventurer pistols.
    ~Lone

  13. #33
    And please make sure all old scopes that have over 8% crit chance will have 8% crit chance after the nerf.

    If fi an 11% crit chance old scope only has 6% crit chance after nerf it will have become effectively worthless as a ql250 VE has a better chance to crit then. This is very, very important if not everyone that had an old school scope below 15% will end up double screwed!!!

    Removing init penalties would be nice, adding ranged init as well I suppose, damage bonus is meaningless unless it is at least 100/hit.


    The damage adding nano's as they exist in game are barely used because they just don't add enough to be worth the ncu.

    I would prefer a bonus to attack rating/ams over a damage bonus I think. If only so that when I fight a primus mob fi I'll not miss it 90% of the time but only 80%

    BTW do you realize that removing the init penalties on them will make them way more overpowering in pvp than they were?
    It will allow pple to fight on full speed at full def or close to that with any reasonably fast weapon, did you test that out?

    I am against the nerf and think it is uncalled for basically old scopes had two disadvantages vs the new ones:

    1. need to spend ip in two utterly useless skills
    2. heavy init penalty, forcing you to fight at a very high agg setting

    which were balanced by a higher % chance to crit.

    Now if you just remove the init penalty they will just be better - and a loooot better - than the new scopes wo any real disadvantages as at high levels everyone can easily afford the ip you needed to spend in ee/ws.

    I have to be honest here, I have a 14% crit scope and hate the idea of it being nerfed, however I'm pretty sure that removing the init penalties on it and making it 8% would give me much more of an advantage vs a player with a new scope than I have now.

    And ipr points will be a necessity with this nerf. As stated above weapons like ithica, river 6 aso become completely obsolete when this takes effect, so 2 ipr points will not be enough for a whole lot of pple.

    I think a far better solution would be to make them completely useless but make them trade in a shop for 1 million/ql as suggested above.

    Yes this will pump an incredibly amount of money into an already 'unhealthy' economy.

    That's a disadvantage, but it will save you the trouble of trying to balance an item into something that
    a. remains so good that the current owners won't feel screwed all over and cancel their accounts en masse.
    b. is not completely overpowering vs the new scopes.

    I'm sorry but you know these two things are mutually exclusive. So that just isn't possible, save yourself the trouble of having tons of angry people, make them completely useless but make them sell for the equivalent of their market value in shops, and add a nice amount of ipr points with that.
    Last edited by Hayake; Oct 2nd, 2002 at 11:38:58.

  14. #34

    Red face

    As far as I can figure out, the scopes by themselves weren't the problem, the problem was (mostly) MAs who stacked them with various outher crit-enhancing items and nanos for a total of 60-70% more-or-less permanent crit chance. *That* is unbalancing.

    So I can understand FC nerfing the scopes, though I wonder why nobody though about stacking crit increasers at the design stage. Another way would be to make a lot of the crit-enhancing stuff non-stackable, but I guess that would invoke yet more whining from the twinkies'r'us crowd

    BTW, saying "I paid 200 million for this, FC must compensate me!" is stupid. *You* decided to pay that amount, your fault. The only in-game price for the item is what the store gives you. I don't see why FC has to take artificially inflated "street" prices into account in anything.

    If NS or GA were to suddenly become available in stores, I'll bet we'd see a huge outcry of "but I paid zillions for them, unfair, compensate me". Boohoo.

  15. #35
    Here's how I see it: Up until now you could go one of two routes when it came to guns. The steady regular damage route, or the crit or die route.
    The first route involved using a slow gun with good overall damage, the second route involved using a fast gun with crappy regular damage and a good crit mod.

    Now that they're forcing everyone to go the first route (and killing yet some of the diversity in the game) by removing crits, only the dieing part is left in the second route. This means they will have to adjust the crit or die weapons, lest they become part of the evergroing list of totally useless weapons in AO.

    I'd hate to see my ithaca on that list, I really like that gun, and I'd quit playing rather than revert to the boring Home Defender with no specials. Trying to get off a 10K AS is about the only fun I have left in missions.
    Don Jinxster Juan - Solitus Trader - Omni RK1

    Nolan Necrogar Danczak - Opifex Martial Artist - Omni RK1

    // TODO: Put some funny line here

  16. #36

    see, this is the part that worries me

    My advent uses a pistol (well pair) of kaen-archibald's..not the greatest gun, yes i know..

    im not some uber twink, i have a 3% scope, i paid a fortune for it...it was worth it why?...NO nano init penalty..he heals his arse off..and that keeps me from gettin ganked..the Kaen has a good crit, but not like a shotgun...and *I* will feel the pain...

    I cant imagine how bad it is for shotty users, but no doubt worse..

    I want to see them say that the crit chance on any scope that is currently below 8% will not be reduced, and all scopes over 8% will be set to exactly 8%...but thats not how it will be

    when funcom breaks out the nerf bat, they dont just give you a love tap, they try to kill ya with it....when this initially happened, they added the nano init penalty to the "new" scopes...like a slap in the face..it wasnt enough to remove the old ones and just put in another that had a different curve...see? they had to whack us with another penalty while at it....and these old scopes were used by folks in other ways...not just shotgun...funcom is hurting more people than they know...and im sure my scope will revert to 1% or 0%, because thats how they think...its easier to kill us with the nerf bat than to just tap us...you guys with a 15% scope..i cant imagine your pain :/

  17. #37
    Originally posted by Cz
    Sheffy, I will take the IPR discussion with Customer Service and the designers (probably the Game Director) later. I hope we can get some kind of agreement there, but can't promise anything.
    Dont forget many have put more IP into inits, than they would if they had the 'new' scope around. Thats one or two more IPR points needed.

    If we not getting any IPRs here, this case will be very self contradiction. You nerfing this because its major unbalancing issue. If its a major unbalancing issue, then it probably is alot of players that have a ellts out there. If the major of thess players have their characters weapon choice based on the llts, you will nerf these characters down under the others if you dont hand out some IPR points here. This because weaponskills is maybe the most important skills to survivev on Rubi-Ka, even for nt's, doc's and similar nanoskill profesions.

    Also you ended last full IPR with very short notice, not informing the community properly. I asked a ARK night before patch, and they didnt even know it. Know alot of people missed full IPR for their alts because of that, some missed it for their main too.

  18. #38
    ok here is an easy solution for the programmers and the community


    make the old llts NODROP

    thats it, simple effective


    nodrop ---> old players leaving ---> llts vanish

  19. #39
    Originally posted by Tedric
    As far as I can figure out, the scopes by themselves weren't the problem, the problem was (mostly) MAs who stacked them with various outher crit-enhancing items and nanos for a total of 60-70% more-or-less permanent crit chance. *That* is unbalancing.
    eeuh that's a bit exaggerating not

    best possible permanent setup for crit chance:

    24% uvc
    15% old scope
    2x globe of clarity: 2%

    total 41% (with 15% scope and 2 globes being extremely rare, I kinda doubt there are 5 players on the planet that have all those).

    That's a long shot from the 60-70% you mention.

    Now I'll go as far as saying that an ma with that setup would probably lay waste to anything that moves on the planet as a matter of saying. But there aren't a lot of ma's like that.

    I agree that in principle it is a silly idea that scopes affect crit chance on anything but guns.

    It is silly to picture fists, swords or beams aso with a scope attached.
    However two things to that

    a. it is a key feature of the ma that (s)he will crit a lot more than other classes, and like a lot of weapons ma damage depends purely on crits.
    An ma that doesn't crit for a while does very, very poor damage.

    b. if you make scopes ranged weapon only as they logically should be, ma's will lose part of their uniqueness and the other non ranged classes will be even more screwed.

  20. #40

    geez god i was right

    guess i cant read today

    ----------------------------------------------------------------
    We're going to nerf the critical chance bonus on the old Low Light Targeting Scope to be equal to the Targeting Scope - Vision Enhancer.
    ----------------------------------------------------------------
    so anyone with an old scope ql 100 or below? 0%...or if theyre feeling particularly generous, 1%

    as you can see, a little nerfbat isnt enough, they mean to kill us with it :/


    seriously, id like to see them say something theyre gonna do to my old scope, thats gonna make it retain its previous value..hell from the looks of things, itll retain not only less, but *no* value....what no kiss with that?

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