Focus on fun, not rewards

[Honorbound]

The reward itself is all well and good but if the process to get the reward is not enjoyable it's just a grind to get out of the way. For instance likely no one likes the Scheol quest lines, but some of the rewards from it are nice. So we grind through it but hate it all the way along.

There's a subjective part to this; what's considered being fun by someone?

I, for one, like to take the time to actually read the NPC dialogues and the mission descriptions for quests as to me they have an entertainment value, but from my experience the majority of the players don't give a damn about all that "wall of text" being thrown at them during quests.
It was supposed to be fun to get to know more about the game world and the story, but most players are not interested in that.
One thing many people reason with regarding this is that "but I have done this quest once already, so it's boring to have to go through it again". Well, it may be, when you are powerlevelling your newest alt through them on a monthly basis. But playing the game at a more reasonable (or should I say, sane) pace would pretty much leave you with not running into the same quests again for months at the least, during which time you will have forgotten most of them anyway. Sure, it will still be somewhat repetitive, but more like catching the re-run of an liked TV show episode every now and then instead of having it played 24/7 in a loop.

Same thing goes for travelling/exploring the zones, Scheol and the quest lines there being a perfect example of this. I've not spent much time there, and thus didn't see much of the zone, until these quests were introduced, and they made me to realize that there are a lot of awesome places in Scheol. Get to see them (and later, when doing the quest with another char, revisit them) turned out to be much fun for me.
Then again, it isn't fun for most of the players either, as it just takes time away from being able to grind more XP in the most efficient way on the mindless rush to 220.

What would be fun for them then, at least as far as quests go?

What is indeed a common problem with most of these quest tho is that they are way too hard for the intened levels to complete them alone or in a small, non-optimal (read: without uber tank and doc) random team.
And requiring a 220 orgmate/friend/whoever to babysit you through quests takes away even that little feel of achievement and fun you'd be getting if you could, through some hardships and difficulties, but still, complete the task yourself instead of watching how a 220 ganks everything for you.

[PhoenixOfAges]

There's a subjective part to this; what's considered being fun by someone?

Of course but the first Scheol quest line especially is just painful.

I, for one, like to take the time to actually read the NPC dialogues...

I do as well but at times I will do the same quest with two chars at once or around the same time. So I just finished reading it all with one char now the other must wait, as, it, slowly, plods, through, the, same, chat. If it quickly spits out what it has to say you can scroll up and read it if you want, or continue on more quickly. It's not a skip NPC chat option, it's a speed up NPC chat change.

Many newer NPCs chat more quickly than older ones yet still have a lot to say. With a lowbie go talk to the one NPC across from the Bronto Burger in Newland city that sends you to get wine in ToTW. He talks a lot but zips through his chatter so it's not a big deal. Compare that to an old NPC like Ergo who also has a lot to say but takes ages to go through it.

Well, it may be, when you are powerlevelling your newest alt through them on a monthly basis. But playing the game at a more reasonable (or should I say, sane) pace would pretty much leave you with not running into the same quests again for months at the least...

I'm not one for power leveling either, I may level some more quickly than others but still not power level them. Then unless I did just recently read it with another char as I am doing the quest with two chars at the same time or so I do usually read it all each time. Although I can read at a decent pace and some NPCs chat so slowly I may be able to read it almost twice over before it spits out the next block of chat.

Same thing goes for travelling/exploring the zones, Scheol and the quest lines there being a perfect example of this...

Going back and forth to see different NPCs like in other quest lines sure. But take Dr. Darnell in the first quest line. You have to run back to see her something like five to eight times over, maybe more. She's a bit of a pain to get to and back from too. Or Frank Jobin down at the bottom of that pit below the one pyramid. He's a real pain to get to and back from and you need to go see him four times. Then you can add one or more unplanned trips to RK if you misstep along the way too.

What would be fun for them then, at least as far as quests go?

Less repetition. With other lines it's usually, see NPC, get task, do task, maybe do a couple more, move on and the tasks may not be far from the NPCs. Then the NPCs aren't in some way, way out of the way location you need to be real careful about your footing to get to but out in the open and easy enough to get to. If they are troublesome to get to in some way it's to be careful about local mobs and agro, not worrying about falling to RK and having to run back again. With those the task is more a concern than getting to the NPC, not so with the first Scheol quest line. The second one is better in that regards but then it goes with the you'd want some high lvl help here and there routine.

What is indeed a common problem with most of these quest tho is that they are way too hard for the intened levels to complete them alone or in a small, non-optimal (read: without uber tank and doc) random team.

And requiring a 220 orgmate/friend/whoever to babysit you through quests takes away even that little feel of achievement and fun you'd be getting if you could, through some hardships and difficulties, but still, complete the task yourself instead of watching how a 220 ganks everything for you.

Yep, take the note at the top of AO Universe's Ado quest guide "this quest line might be challenging even for some end-game characters." Yet the rewards are seemingly aimed at lvl 130-150 chars or so. Around it's introduction there were a few threads where decent full teams in that lvl range tried doing it without a 220 and failed miserably.

[drainbamage]

Back to page 1 with you

[PhoenixOfAges]

Added a couple new things to the first list.

[Jerusha]

shameless bump for implementing

[Butsut3kkai]

BUMP for all ideas, specially the fact that HP bags mobs need to be reduced. I played AOC during a month, and mobs tend to hit real hard but players too. Shorter but harder fights.

[Spirulina]

Bump for insane quest nerf (ado brain). Shadowlands destroyed the fun for me. Nothing is soloable and the most sad thing is haven't even bothered to try Ado brain quest with my 200+ MA knowing how hard it is. Getting ganked multiple times with sharks in Abyss while running to Pen is allways very nice too...

[Obtena]

AO isn't sophisticated enough to have the dynamic world needed for it to focus on fun. Face it, it's boring because everything is the same. Unless they release a new mission or something on a monthly basis, it's not going to get more fun. In fact, unless the world becomes dynamic based on player interactions, how fun can it possibly be aside from the occasional blip of new releases? Don't delude yourself. You don't farm and do stuff in AO because the activity is fun, you do it because your a gambler, hoping to get that reward for doing repeated tasks over and over again.

[drainbamage]

How can I recommend this to anyone?
edit: To illustrate, I was trying to convince a friend to try AO, and the best thing I could come up with was "it's free".

Oh hi

What's sad is that now I can't even recommend this game based on it being free, because there are better free MMOs.

[pimthegreat]

Bump for this! Funcom should defenitly throw many if not al of these suggestions in a to do list. Prioritize by worth cost and controversity(like ensignias that cased debate in this thread have a reason why it should be so).

My favorites of the list is rework some old mobs to be more challenging and less heaps of hp. Some catacombs (especialy inferno) , Lotv, RK dynas.
Second is more tokens for more challenge. I'm thinking RK mission reward based on difficulty slider.
Talk speed of npc's.