Neutral Application Form

[DocJones]

Heyas,

EDTA, you forgot the "swim" skill...

Other than that: free bump

regards
/Z

[Edta]

A mistake that needs to be corrected? THAT seriously pisses me off and heavily disappoints me. But well, you're not Funcom, that calms me down a bit.

Non-combatants? Nah: there is a difference between not fighting and not fighting in the conflict. I don't give a **** about the conflict. See me as an adventurer that came to Rubi-Ka because I like to play a deadly game where I kill people. I'm just not hardcore enough so I want to have a backup; death insurance. I kill regardless of faction. I also die to all factions; mainly in fact :P. Most importantly: I chose to kill people that play the deadly game with me.

Yes, I sometimes fight at one side. Usually payed somehow. This might influence the conflict, I don't care. Some peace-loving neutrals might not like that from me, but that's their problem. We don't have a leader, we're not told what to do. We're independent, we're free.

I don't want to be Omni, Omni-Tek are slaves, told what to do by the corporation, lead by a puppeteer (OT director) which is as well influenced by a puppeteer (Roman) which is yet again commanded by another puppeteer ("Vanya").
After losing the war against his Solitus slaves Roman created Omni-Tek. Some of his notes regarding Omni-Tek:
"The slaves would remain slaves, but this time they wouldn't even know it."
"But people wanted, needed, freedom - or at least the illusion of freedom. He'd learned that now. And he would give people freedom, until that freedom corrupted mankind totally and made them a ruined people, unable to progress, incapable of spiritual or ethical evolution."
Do you want to be part of these slaves? I know I don't.

I don't want to be Clan either. Clan is killing the slaves, the poor victims of the corporation. They as well are told what to do. Told to hate. Hate independent of personality, hate for that other group of people that is brainwashed to believe something. No thanks.

I chose not to hate. I might dislike people; based on personality or behavior, not on faction!

On a related note: I believe that the Xan being divided in sides was an important reason for the Cataclysm! Prevent a second cataclysm, join Neutral :P!

Thank you.

[Aethyrguard]

A mistake that needs to be corrected? THAT seriously pisses me off and heavily disappoints me. But well, you're not Funcom, that calms me down a bit.

Non-combatants? Nah: there is a difference between not fighting and not fighting in the conflict. I don't give a **** about the conflict. See me as an adventurer that came to Rubi-Ka because I like to play a deadly game where I kill people. I'm just not hardcore enough so I want to have a backup; death insurance. I kill regardless of faction. I also die to all factions; mainly in fact :P. Most importantly: I chose to kill people that play the deadly game with me.

Yes, I sometimes fight at one side. Usually payed somehow. This might influence the conflict, I don't care. Some peace-loving neutrals might not like that from me, but that's their problem. We don't have a leader, we're not told what to do. We're independent, we're free.

I don't want to be Omni, Omni-Tek are slaves, told what to do by the corporation, lead by a puppeteer (OT director) which is as well influenced by a puppeteer (Roman) which is yet again commanded by another puppeteer ("Vanya").
After losing the war against his Solitus slaves Roman created Omni-Tek. Some of his notes regarding Omni-Tek:
"The slaves would remain slaves, but this time they wouldn't even know it."
"But people wanted, needed, freedom - or at least the illusion of freedom. He'd learned that now. And he would give people freedom, until that freedom corrupted mankind totally and made them a ruined people, unable to progress, incapable of spiritual or ethical evolution."
Do you want to be part of these slaves? I know I don't.

I don't want to be Clan either. Clan is killing the slaves, the poor victims of the corporation. They as well are told what to do. Told to hate. Hate independent of personality, hate for that other group of people that is brainwashed to believe something. No thanks.

I chose not to hate. I might dislike people; based on personality or behavior, not on faction!

On a related note: I believe that the Xan being divided in sides was an important reason for the Cataclysm! Prevent a second cataclysm, join Neutral :P!

Thank you.

Except, you are wrong about what defines Clans and Neutrals. Clans are "Any non Omni-Tek armed combatant." You can be pissed off if you like, because while I am not Funcom, I have spoken 1 to 1 with Funcom about this very topic in person and that is their stance "Neutrals are those who resigned from fighting and looked for a nice place to live in peace" continuing on with "Once they take up arms against others on RK they become 'Clans' if they did not sign an Omni-Tek application form".

Until now Neutrals at end game could complain that they had no access to side locked content, now with the appearance of 201+ application forms that is no longer the case. They do have access even at 220/30/70. It has always been Funcom's stance that Neutrals were peaceful observers, it is only a few pvp minded (read as minority within a minority) that sees Neutrals as some sort of "Third Faction". The average street found Neutral is not quite so war minded. It is mostly this newest generation who has come about when RP was pretty much dead and just sees 3 choices for a side and expect the non-side side to behave like a side. Old Neutrals thought they got to much already if you ask them.

It is the failings of 2 people in Funcom (Gaute and Means's brother in law), who caved to a very vocal minority of the players of AO and as a result have diluted and ruined their own game, every time this topic comes up Means calls his brother in law and cusses him out . Having said that I also understand that the later teams have never agreed with that decision to allow Neutrals to be more side like and with few exceptions ever catered to the Neutral community. Neutrals are an accident that never should have happened and one that cannot be fixed easily.

Those people who are "truly neutral" meaning peaceful explorers are the only ones that deserve the title "Neutral" fighting in the conflict at all makes you a side in it. Clans shoot other Clans, Neutrals and of course Omni even in the story.. (Red Freedom to name but one) So claiming you are Neutral because you shoot both omni and clans is asinine at best. Really, what I said about "There's already a Clan for that" is the only way to break this down simply. Any organized militant group on RK that is not an Omni-Tek Department is in fact a Clan by definition. Those who are protected by ICC are those who do not take up arms against anyone, that is why they are there, to keep the peace. Sadly the decisions to change neutrals in to what they are now ruined the continuity of the story because what Neutrals attempt to claim as their Identity within the game is already part of what makes up the Clan Identity. I'm sorry you some how got confused at some point along the way.

I posted this as my last word of warning. From the conversation I had it seems this team has decided to make good on the promises to the sides but needed to give neutrals a neck item first which is why I left that debate. Now I refuse to get in to the Neutral debate any further having heard from the big man himself that my assumptions and those whom have mirrored my stance in these forums are in fact "100% undeniably correct in our points". I simply do not care to argue anymore it's like beating a dead horse. I already know you are wrong so whats the fun in debating?

PS, always nice to see someone who knows the back story of AO but sadly it doesn't support your view on Neutrals at all.

[Jenshey]

... now with the appearance of 201+ application forms that is no longer the case. They do have access even at 220/30/70. ...

Go all that way then leave your org and the neutral community? What sort of dumb arses do you take us for? Only a minute minority are going to use those and I take them as an insult.

As for combat, we don't support Omni-Tek nor are we Clan because we don't want to overthrow them either. We have our own self interests to turn a profit from the extraction, processing and exporting of notum gained from the notum fields.

[Aethyrguard]

Go all that way then leave your org and the neutral community? What sort of dumb arses do you take us for? Only a minute minority are going to use those and I take them as an insult.

As for combat, we don't support Omni-Tek nor are we Clan because we don't want to overthrow them either. We have our own self interests to turn a profit from the extraction, processing and exporting of notum gained from the notum fields.

If you want access to sided content. Yes. Have fun banging your head into a wall trying to flame me for posting this. I just wanted to inform you of the facts. I am finished here. You cannot make what I posted wrong because I have heard it by mouth and do not care how you retort. This team intends to "fix" AO. Which means lore, itemization, balance, content of all types, engine, bugs, exploits, etc. Fixing Neutrals falls into a few of those categories.

[Jenshey]

Why do I want sided content? I get to use both "Not Omni" and "Not Clan" items, oFab, AI armour, Deadloch, etc.

Best of all, no token farming.

[Aethyrguard]

Why do I want sided content? I get to use both "Not Omni" and "Not Clan" items, oFab, AI armour, Deadloch, etc.

Best of all, no token farming.

Then you have nothing to worry about do you?

[huckleberry]

In the game Omnitek is just a business corporation. And Clan is just a group of ppl who fight this corporation. They are not a race or ethnic group or civilization. Ppl are not born Omnitek or Clan, they are natural born unaffiliated. So when you say"Neutrals are an accident" you can make a lot of ppl laughing hard. It is like saying if you are not working for Burger King or MC Donald you are an accident.

Sorry for my english but i cant resist.

[Aethyrguard]

In the game Omnitek is just a business corporation. And Clan is just a group of ppl who fight this corporation. They are not a race or ethnic group or civilization. Ppl are not born Omnitek or Clan, they are natural born unaffiliated. So when you say"Neutrals are an accident" you can make a lot of ppl laughing hard. It is like saying if you are not working for Burger King or MC Donald you are an accident.

Sorry for my english but i cant resist.

You misunderstand. Two employees caved in to a vocal minority many years ago and changed some mechanics. The problem arises in the fact they didn't take in to consideration the future ramifications of their choice. Neutrals were intended from the onset to be a "temporary observational non-side to remain only for a short time before picking a side". A small but vocal group of players complained that they wanted more of the game and that they paid for it and want to be neutral and play all of the game like the sides and instead of sticking to their guns and the lore they in a moment of weakness said ok. Now they have been paying for it ever since. However, now they are at the opposite point where now they are upsetting the majority of players by giving neutrals to much. Funcom told players originally, "Neutrals will never even come close to competing with the sides they are mainly an RP faction". This means for every boost they give you they have to boost us up again in other ways to compensate to restore the old balance which Sil really destroyed in his time.

You can't simply take away stuff from Neutrals (it would be like trying to take a toy from a child), so you can only add things they won't have future access too, in hopes of restoring the lore, restoring the continuity of content and allow for the future development of AO as a complete and whole product not just "items and npcs in an environment". Again, You are also wrong about what clans are. Clans are "any armed militant on RK that does not bow to Omni-Tek Jurisdiction and claim independence from it". Only "Some" clans fight omni-tek. Others are very friendly with them and even sit down and have tea and sake together (in the story even / lore).

[Jenshey]

Too late, neutrals are here to stay.

[huckleberry]

For the clans relation with omnitek like you say "are very friendly.." how about try to sit near a guard in Rome and see if you can have a tea. Look like for you the fight between Omni and Clans is just an "accident" again from "some" clanners, in a cooperative and peaceful world. And neutrals ruined it by existing. Or maybe you are just kidding ?

You can say those neutrals ruined the game, but maybe in the reality it is them who have saved it and do not let it sunken completly, by a too much simplified view of conflits and wars.

[Aethyrguard]

Too late, neutrals are here to stay.

sorta

For the clans relation with omnitek like you say "are very friendly.." how about try to sit near a guard in Rome and see if you can have a tea. Look like for you the fight between Omni and Clans is just an "accident" again from "some" clanners, in a cooperative and peaceful world. And neutrals ruined it by existing. Or maybe you are just kidding ?

You can say those neutrals ruined the game, but maybe in the reality it is them who have saved it and do not let it sunken completly, by a too much simplified view of conflits and wars.

no

You both just aren't getting it. I am not debating with you. I am not saying "I believe this vs you believe that". I am relaying information nothing more. I cannot win this debate and neither can you because there is none, you have to understand that. This is just the way it is and how it should be.

[Mekh]

Seems my time in AO may be coming to an end then, if they're ditching Neutrals.

[drops]

They're not, that just some idiot's wishful thinking.

[Aethyrguard]

Seems my time in AO may be coming to an end then, if they're ditching Neutrals.

Not ditching. Giving Neutrals an incentive to join a side. Let me try to explain this. ICC is a conglomeration of Hyper-corporations like Omni-Tek. A United Nations of sorts on a corporate level. Omni-Tek has rights to Rubika. If ICC was protecting armed militants as a third faction it would breach all intergalactic treaties according to lore, Omni-Tek would file an injunction against them in the galactic courts which would likely result in another corporate war. ICC provides "peacekeepers". They do not provide "ICC Mercenaries or Neutral Mercs". Neutrals have never and from my understanding will never be what you think / hope they would become. They are just more mechanically enabled than they were supposed to be but by definition remain the same "Peaceful civilians".

They're not, that just some idiot's wishful thinking.

You are wrong.

[Mekh]

Not ditching. Giving Neutrals an incentive to join a side.
...snip...

Same deal...

For the 5 years I've played AO neutrals have been a "de facto" faction in AO.
Not a side in the war.... there's a difference.
Whatever intentions some dev's may have had once upon a time, and whatever intentions they may have again now does not change that fact, and that is what have shaped my experiences and choices in AO.



Neutrals have been the odd one out that added some ****e to the AO world, rather than the cookie-cutter setup of two war mongering parties seen in every other game out there.

Loosing that will spell game over for me. Joining either Clan or Omni has no interest for me whatsoever...
If I were a hardcore RP'er I might have opted for it, but I'm not and therefore joining some meaningless setup in a socalled war between parties that can team and help eachother in pretty much every aspect of the game is laughable at best.

PvP for me is 90% something I'm forced to do in order to aquire some things that are desirable to me. Don't mention LE missions that are as laughable as the so called war between clan/omni.
Why on earth should I have any desire to enter a side in a war?

Effectively removing neutrals as a faction will just mean AO gets deprived of a unique setting that adds to it's diversity in a quite interesting way.

I can not see myself playing this game if that gets removed...
Not in any way meant as some meaningless and useless "threat", just stating how I feel about it.

[Edta]

Not ditching. Giving Neutrals an incentive to join a side. Let me try to explain this. ICC is a conglomeration of Hyper-corporations like Omni-Tek. A United Nations of sorts on a corporate level. Omni-Tek has rights to Rubika. If ICC was protecting armed militants as a third faction it would breach all intergalactic treaties according to lore, Omni-Tek would file an injunction against them in the galactic courts which would likely result in another corporate war. ICC provides "peacekeepers". They do not provide "ICC Mercenaries or Neutral Mercs". Neutrals have never and from my understanding will never be what you think / hope they would become. They are just more mechanically enabled than they were supposed to be but by definition remain the same "Peaceful civilians".

You are wrong. (to quote yourself :P)
Neutrals and ICC are something completely different. Yes, ICC has to be peaceful, this doesn't hold for Neutrals.

What's the link between the neutrals and the ICC?
Neutral Observer: There is no link! Anyone who tells you otherwise is a liar. The ICC is a regulatory body for all corporations, and the only reason they have posted Peacekeepers in neutral territories is to protect Rubi-Kan civilians against corporate - and clan - aggression. We have no army, and we don't want an army. The ICC is just doing it's job.

The thing clans have in common is their fight against Omni-Tek, this can be done in several ways but from playing the game, I'd say violence is the way. Yes, they talk and have tea in the story: to talk about peace! There must be a war going on before you can talk about peace though. From the lore Henri Radiman and Philip Ross seem to be some nice smart people, thinking grey. I don't feel that in the game: Omni and Clan feel black and white. The grey reason-ability is something I only feel with Neutrals.
Black-white minded people might call me Clan because I'm not Omni and I killed somebody. Other black-white minded people call me Omni because "If you're not with us, you're against us". I don't really care how they call me, it doesn't matter. It's only a name. And you are not what other's call you after all. You are what you call yourself! And I happen to call myself Neutral. Which is only a name. It's the idea that is me, and I think I have highlighted that pretty well by now.

Oh, and they can't ditch Neutrals just like that; Aethyrguard said it himself. They can make them even less interesting though, but that actually is just mean. Who would profit from it? As long as the difference is this big, clomnis have 0 rights to whine. The only profit I can see is a few minutes of joy for Means (I know he enjoys being mean, he just barely gets the opportunity) :P.

Oh, and saying "I am right, no need to discuss" is very cool, I should try it sometime. I think a disclaimer "I am not Funcom. I am not speaking in the name of Funcom. I am only telling through what I understood from certain Funcom employees. Some things could sound a bit differently since I'm a person with thoughts as well." would be more appropriate though. I'm still believing you though .

[Aethyrguard]

You are wrong. (to quote yourself :P)
Neutrals and ICC are something completely different. Yes, ICC has to be peaceful, this doesn't hold for Neutrals.



The thing clans have in common is their fight against Omni-Tek, this can be done in several ways but from playing the game, I'd say violence is the way. Yes, they talk and have tea in the story: to talk about peace! There must be a war going on before you can talk about peace though. From the lore Henri Radiman and Philip Ross seem to be some nice smart people, thinking grey. I don't feel that in the game: Omni and Clan feel black and white. The grey reason-ability is something I only feel with Neutrals.
Black-white minded people might call me Clan because I'm not Omni and I killed somebody. Other black-white minded people call me Omni because "If you're not with us, you're against us". I don't really care how they call me, it doesn't matter. It's only a name. And you are not what other's call you after all. You are what you call yourself! And I happen to call myself Neutral. Which is only a name. It's the idea that is me, and I think I have highlighted that pretty well by now.

Oh, and they can't ditch Neutrals just like that; Aethyrguard said it himself. They can make them even less interesting though, but that actually is just mean. Who would profit from it? As long as the difference is this big, clomnis have 0 rights to whine. The only profit I can see is a few minutes of joy for Means (I know he enjoys being mean, he just barely gets the opportunity) :P.

Oh, and saying "I am right, no need to discuss" is very cool, I should try it sometime. I think a disclaimer "I am not Funcom. I am not speaking in the name of Funcom. I am only telling through what I understood from certain Funcom employees. Some things could sound a bit differently since I'm a person with thoughts as well." would be more appropriate though. I'm still believing you though .

I am not debating this with you. I did not say at any point that Neutrals were ICC or that ICC were linked to Neutrals. What I said was. "ICC is there to protect non combatants, eg civilians." If you are a combatant.. you are no longer a civilian. I'm sorry that the way I might have presented it came out sounding wrong.. As I said. It is not a debate I can win because there is nothing to debate and I am just tired of hearing it come up over and over especially now that I know for a fact what the end of it is. I asked a direct question in person got a direct answer and that solved it all for me.

I will comment tho on the "ICC & Neutrals behavior" point. Actually, if the Neutrals get too rowdy they will get a nice little sit down from either or both Omni & ICC regarding their behavior. If ICC protects Neutral Militants from Omni-Tek that is an act of war. Protecting Neutral Civilian Non combatants is a completely different story. I think it is you and other polarized neutrals who see things as "black n white". Until the release of the SL there was not really a "Good or Bad" just two different shades of grey, greed, revenge, and so on fueling many things all around. Omni and Clan until the redeemed/unredeemed appearance were both neutral really in terms of "good -> neutral -> evil" alignments like in PnP games. The reason I say I think it is you neutrals who are more into the black n white view or at least just as guilty of it is that you don't see the various sides of each side, you see "Omni-Tek & Clans", not "Omni-Med, Omni-Trans, Omni-Mining, Omni-AF, Omni-Pol, Sentinels, Knights of Avalon, Unionists, and so on.." That is what has caused all of you to be so damned confused on what Neutrals really are. I think Funcom needs to do a better job of presenting and introducing the various sub factions within AO's world more and include them in some sort of quest->itemization upgrading chain or something.

Oh yeah and to correct you, The things Clans have in common is believed independence from Omni-Tek, not a desire to kill them. Please stop mislabeling clanners that way. There is about 35% of the original Council of Truth that was considered "Pro-Peace", about 15% "Undecided" and about 50% "Pro-War".

PS: If I remember correctly you live somewhere in Africa? Feel free to correct me it might be Asia I can't recall at the moment but let's just use Africa. How would you feel if I said, everyone from the African territories or calling themself an african was infact a gun smuggling, hoodlum with aids and a warmongering tribal. You'd be offended right? That is how I feel when you all mislabel the Clans (as much as I can toward a game anyway lol ). Clans are a bunch of individuals who do not believe they should be property of a corporation and feel their own lives are worth living on their own terms and if that means defending their homes then they will. If that means pushing omni back up to their capital city here and making them board up the doors to drive a point home.. we will. But "WE" are not warmongers.. we are a society of free thinkers. Something Neutrals keep trying to claim as their own identity. Please when will you all stop trying to step on my orange suede shoes.

[Edta]

Alright, from a background and role-player perspective there is indeed a lot of sub-factions, but I think the majority of the Clan and Omni don't realize that either and just behave as one aggressive union. Maybe I don't notice it well because I'm neutral. Or maybe FC should present them better. Though I believe all omni's are kinda supposed to have the same ideas and the different groups are merely different functions of the same big thing. But indeed, the differences definitely hold for the Clans (they are called "the Clans" after all since there is several clans).
Still, it's grouping ideas: all people with somewhat the same ideas go in the same group and as usual in this kind of situations, very few manage to maintain their own ideas. Most people like it, but I'm the kind of person that doesn't like to run along with the rest of the group.

I said that Clans 'fight' for independence from Omni-Tek. This fighting can be peacefully with diplomacy or it can be violently as most in game seem to interpret it. 'Fight' is not an ideal wording, but the Clan Recruiter on ICC island uses it too... Neutrals don't really fight for this independence. They merely ignore Omni-Tek and just take their independence. Something they can in fact -sadly enough- only do because Omni-Tek is too busy with the Clans. Edit: Hmm, apparently I wrote "fight against Omni-Tek", I meant to say "fight for independence from OT". Sorry, my fault.

Looking at something else makes it more complicated: I believe there are Borealis Freedom Fighters or something like that. They have been created by FC in events. They fight against Omni, and still they are neutral .

Btw, I live in Belgium . Not sure how you would have known where I live though, I don't think we know each other .

[huckleberry]

For Omnitek, "Omni-Med, Omni-Trans, Omni-Mining, Omni-AF, Omni-Pol" are not factions, they are just different services of Omnitek. Med for medical, Trans for transport etc. It is just funny because it is like you say School Bus and American Postal are factions in America. For Clan, Sentinels and Unionist attack Omni at view. I let ppl confirm if Knight of Avalon attack Omni or not. Even if they dont it can be like the Unicorn of the ICC landing pad, it can be just an accord of ceasse fire local and it will not make them become a separated and pacific "faction".

You say "There is about 35% of the original Council of Truth that was considered Pro-Peace, about 15% Undecided" and about 50% Pro-War". This 15% undecided dont have any clear opinion. So it is exact to say the Clan is in war againts Omnitek because the majority have chosen war. And it is not the minority who is representative to say "we are a society of free thinkers". Every society have free thinkers, they can thinking smart things or just thinking idiot things depending of their own intelligence. So when you say "Something Neutrals keep trying to claim as their own identity" is just show the high degre of you knowledge and make you look very smart yourself.

And if it exist some "free thinkers" who start to think "now i have enough to being clan i want to be neutral" can they do that in a "society of free thinkers" ?