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Thread: Building an Anti-Personnel Turret in the Grace time of tower-gas..

  1. #1

    Building an Anti-Personnel Turret in the Grace time of tower-gas..

    ..is apparently still working as of patch 18.1.1.

    When is this going to be nerfed already? Nothing like having that CT at 25% hp, after hard work.. only to see one lamer pull out an APT.

    What's the APT mean for the attackers? You'll have to:

    1. Run out of gas to lose aggro.
    2. Mech up.
    3. Come back.
    4. Kill the APT noob.
    5. Run out of gas again to lose aggro.
    6. Unmech.
    7. Come back.
    8. Start shooting CT again.

    The bold part here is important.

    Losing aggro means the CT goes into super healdelta mode. Not losing aggro means you are in range of the APT, and in that case you will die. Essentially meaning, whenever ANYONE pops an APT, the CT is back to 100%. All progress of damaging the CT, is lost.

    The 6 minutes your APT noob spends in rezz are not enough time to kill a CT, and shouldn't be enough either.

    To finish with a quote, here's our beloved Game Director's opinion on APTing in grace:
    Quote Originally Posted by Means View Post
    THIS sounds like an issue that should be fixed.
    Please take some time to do that.

    Kind regards,

    Lupus.
    Lupusceleri L220/30/70 Agent -- Advisor of Spartans -- equip endgame AR setup endgame def setup <3 Azs wearer of Cheree's pants
    Arrowsmith -- Arafellin -- Alphacenta -- Aesculapias -- Wolfseye -- Lysdexic


    TL5 enf twink: im out those MPs are to overpowered

    crattey: The Balance Discussion forum. Where common sense goes to die.

  2. #2
    Leave someone in a mech.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by drainbamage View Post
    Leave someone in a mech.
    Won't work, for one mechs are useless at anything but killing other vehicles (CT will go down even slower), and for two not every attacking tower force consists of enough toons that they can miss one toon to permamech. For three this is just stupid and should be fixed already.
    Lupusceleri L220/30/70 Agent -- Advisor of Spartans -- equip endgame AR setup endgame def setup <3 Azs wearer of Cheree's pants
    Arrowsmith -- Arafellin -- Alphacenta -- Aesculapias -- Wolfseye -- Lysdexic


    TL5 enf twink: im out those MPs are to overpowered

    crattey: The Balance Discussion forum. Where common sense goes to die.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Lupusceleri View Post
    Won't work, for one mechs are useless at anything but killing other vehicles (CT will go down even slower), and for two not every attacking tower force consists of enough toons that they can miss one toon to permamech. For three this is just stupid and should be fixed already.
    Not saying it shouldn't be fixed but it is a temporary solution. Use it or don't, none of my concern.

  5. #5
    alternatively they could give a CT the ability to remove H&Q, Mochies, and Essence from anyone within 50 meters. Just saying, if you want it to be fair...

    If you are just bitching cause someone stopped you from taking their tower site while 99% of the org was offline, lol @ you.
    ____ Equipment
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  6. #6
    What about froobs?
    Facebook
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    Quote Originally Posted by Undercutting View Post
    Bs isn't where the real pvp happens, tis' where the pvmers' go to feel like they've pvped.
    [Zacyx]: i will perma bann u from MR

  7. #7
    Best way to fix would probably be to end grace when you start entering a mech or turrent, and also make it where you can enter a mech/turrent while under attack.
    The medsuits wont survive long enough to mech if you are on your toes.

    Worse comes to worse just change it where it can be interupted by melee specials like capping on the bs can.

  8. #8
    Dont see anything wrong with people apt'ing on gas grace, i do think however that AS and OS should do more dmg to them.
    Quote Originally Posted by Means
    ...I can't code in better leadership for the Clan faction.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Shonta View Post
    Best way to fix would probably be to end grace when you start entering a mech or turrent, and also make it where you can enter a mech/turrent while under attack.
    The medsuits wont survive long enough to mech if you are on your toes.

    Worse comes to worse just change it where it can be interupted by melee specials like capping on the bs can.
    This.
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    Xirayne: I couldn't care less about who is clueless or what the exact definition "real" pvp is in ao, I want "fun" pvp!

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Flyingengi View Post
    What about froobs?
    lol XD
    Leave "Marinegent" AScar - 220/23/65 Atrox Agent
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    Quote Originally Posted by CuisinartBlade View Post
    to be fair, 2.8k ar is enough to perk anyone except fixers, mas, advs, shades, nt's that blinded you, shield mps, bow mps that landed dazzle, def docs, crats, or marinesold

    so all in all it's a fairly viable setup

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Lupusceleri View Post
    Won't work, for one mechs are useless at anything but killing other vehicles (CT will go down even slower), and for two not every attacking tower force consists of enough toons that they can miss one toon to permamech. For three this is just stupid and should be fixed already.
    I agree that it needs to be fixed. Being able to APT in grace does sound silly. But please, don't use lack of toons as a reasoning for the mech fix. If you can't muster up enough toons to win the battle and you lose, you deserve to lose. It doesn't matter if they can mech up in grace or not.

  12. #12
    Dont really know crap about AO PvP

    seems to me tho that defending your towers is a difficult thing.
    i'm sorta guessing that noone will sit around at his little plot for hours at end waiting for a potential attack.
    So right there the attacker has an advantage.
    As i understand it you can not mech up if you are aggroed so if attackers are on the ball they can keep the defenders from planting an APT. That kinda sucks no?
    The assumption in OP is that ONLY because of the grace period can a APT actually be planted, right?
    So maybe that option should be left AS IS to make it possible for a small defense crew to actually DEFEND their site, being able to choose were/when to attack is a very large edge allready.

    I wont say that APT's are balanced right cause that i dont know ( i'm a noob dammit).
    But i do think that the defenders should be able to HAVE APT's, seems like they were made for pretty much this type of thing.

    The "APT noob" being overpowered is an entirely different subject from APT's going up in the grace-period.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Solstiare View Post
    alternatively they could give a CT the ability to remove H&Q, Mochies, and Essence from anyone within 50 meters. Just saying, if you want it to be fair...
    That would sound like a fun fix to lowbie wars too, please just start another thread about it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Solstiare View Post
    If you are just bitching cause someone stopped you from taking their tower site while 99% of the org was offline, lol @ you.
    Actually no, this will happen whenever you try.. org high-time, org low-time. We tried in the org high-time I believe.

    Quote Originally Posted by Comi View Post
    Dont see anything wrong with people apt'ing on gas grace, i do think however that AS and OS should do more dmg to them.
    Err, wait what?

    To do an airstrike or orbitalstrike you need to farm 1k VP on your lowbie (I'm sure you know what a royal PITA that is) and secondly you will have to be right next to the APT, in it's firing range, while attackable, to place the beacon.

    Quote Originally Posted by Perfekt View Post
    I agree that it needs to be fixed. Being able to APT in grace does sound silly. But please, don't use lack of toons as a reasoning for the mech fix. If you can't muster up enough toons to win the battle and you lose, you deserve to lose. It doesn't matter if they can mech up in grace or not.
    The point here: three toons (just an example) attack, one toon makes an APT, all 3 toons have to run or they die.

    So you put one toon in a mech permanently, to kill off APT. Now, 2-3 real twinks come in and start fighting with you... of course that'll be much tougher than when the mech was on feet as usual.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dogtrauma View Post
    i'm sorta guessing that noone will sit around at his little plot for hours at end waiting for a potential attack.
    So right there the attacker has an advantage.
    Yes, but if your plot is attacked it is spammed to:

    1. The whole org.
    2. Every Squad Commander+ on the server.
    3. Often, orgbots have SC+ rank too and echo it to orgchat.

    If the base is opened, the defending org will receive messages about tower health status at:

    1. 75% hp left.
    2. 50% hp left.
    3. 25% hp left.
    4. Tower dies.

    All these messages are in purple, a color rarely used for other things in AO chat. So you see, you won't have to sit around waiting for an attack. You'll be more than adequately warned about the attack.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dogtrauma View Post
    As i understand it you can not mech up if you are aggroed so if attackers are on the ball they can keep the defenders from planting an APT. That kinda sucks no?
    Yes, but often sites are big. At TL3+, you never go directly for the CT, for the simple reason that the damage shield the support towers provide HURTS. So what happens is that you run around the site, killing towers. During that time one can run to a silent spot (no attackers) and APT up no problem, and that is definitely a valid tactic. Most of the time spent attacking a base, there's no attackers anywhere near the CT so you can set up a turret defense there np. Or you can do it after real twinks have wiped or occupied the attackers.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dogtrauma View Post
    The assumption in OP is that ONLY because of the grace period can a APT actually be planted, right?
    No, the fact in OP is that an APT can be planted right next to an attacking force, while the attacking force can do nothing about it. At all. It's simply waiting while your doom materializes into existence. THAT is what needs to be changed.
    Lupusceleri L220/30/70 Agent -- Advisor of Spartans -- equip endgame AR setup endgame def setup <3 Azs wearer of Cheree's pants
    Arrowsmith -- Arafellin -- Alphacenta -- Aesculapias -- Wolfseye -- Lysdexic


    TL5 enf twink: im out those MPs are to overpowered

    crattey: The Balance Discussion forum. Where common sense goes to die.

  14. #14
    Nice, non-flamy reply, thanks.

  15. #15
    The thing to remember is this:
    its an anti PERSONNEL turrent
    It was meant to deal with this situation itself and since it's inception, it has brought some balance to tower wars, especially in the tl3-4 arena

    Want to nerf some things, let's try these:

    1- Nanite casting TL3 traders
    2- 80-90ish agents with SPBs
    3- relatively low MR on top end Tiig beaters and chef cleavers
    4- 60 second countdown timer when entering active gas. if you in a zone, you should be attackable.
    5- terminate any and all OBs when entering a hot field, just like BS

    Not many people maintain full ai armor, top end gear setup tl3-4 tower twinks except clans, so giving folks an option of viably defending their fields. The use of an APT helps those without the epeening "I got the best toon" blah blah viable defend themselves.

    This opinion is based on experience, not just conjecture

    Case in point: Clans attacking the TL3 field my org held every day as soon as it went hot this past week. Use of the APT helped those available at the time of these attacks (12amish GMT -6 time) be able to defend to the field during the entire 6 hours the field was hot.
    5 out of 6 days, these long drawn battles occurred, which consisted mainly of the clans running in and out of the field before the grace period expired, only wanting to engage those on foot or alone, mainly pvm players(insert "boost your epeening ego here") but will run like mad when a player that is truly a pvper come after them in defense.


    Either way, FC's desire to balance things is commendable, but as with some things, everyone can't have their way about things all the time. By far and large, the most efficient way to balance current low end pvp will be the termination of outside buffs when entering a 25% or lower field, then you give every player, pve/pvm/pvp based a fighting chance to engage one another...not a supertwink alphaing everything in sight every 6-15 seconds before someone even gets a chance to get a shot in. This itselfs discourages folks from pvp, since who would constantly want to buff up, run in, get killed in 10secs and do it all over again for 6 hours. This would bring it down to what it needs to be, skill and toolset

    anyway, stated my opinion, take it for what it is, an opinion
    bring on the flamers and trolls, I could care less if you flame, flame automatically falls into emo category as far as I'm concerned.
    Last edited by plugszzz; Jul 5th, 2009 at 14:35:54.
    Plugsz
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  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by plugszzz View Post
    5- terminate any and all OBs when entering a hot field, just like BS

    By far and large, the most efficient way to balance current low end pvp will be the termination of outside buffs when entering a 25% or lower field, then you give every player, pve/pvm/pvp based a fighting chance to engage one another...not a supertwink alphaing everything in sight every 6-15 seconds before someone even gets a chance to get a shot in.

    BS cancel all buffs. I dont know if there is a way for the server to tell if its a self buff or not, but it would be really sucky to wonder into a tower field in the middle of a battle with wildlife and lose all your buffs.
    All my lowbie twinks are made to kill tower sites self buffed but if those self buffs were terminated all my gear would go OE. This would basicly give the attackers a huge advantage as they could go in, rebuff, then kill all the defenders as they zoned in and their buffs died.

    Outside buffs help everyone in lowbie pvp, however its turned lowbie pvp more into about how much NCU you can twink in then how twinked you are. Ive attacked lvl 21 tower sites self buffed with my lvl 15 enforcer, then a trader shows up and with HnQ it takes too long to kill them and I die simply because I cant outlast them. I would like to see things like that balanced at low level pvp but I don't see a way other then level locking the nano's to actually do it.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by drainbamage View Post
    Leave someone in a mech.

    pretty obvious. but I guess not everyone can be a genius like me.
    Topaboss 220/30/70 solitus soldier :: equip

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by plugszzz View Post
    The thing to remember is this:
    its an anti PERSONNEL turrent
    Nothing's going to change about that, in fact APT have gotten love with 18.1 so they hit more and harder. That's good; before some toons were able to simply ignore APT.

    Quote Originally Posted by plugszzz View Post
    Want to nerf some things, let's try these:

    1- Nanite casting TL3 traders
    2- 80-90ish agents with SPBs
    3- relatively low MR on top end Tiig beaters and chef cleavers
    4- 60 second countdown timer when entering active gas. if you in a zone, you should be attackable.
    5- terminate any and all OBs when entering a hot field, just like BS
    Agreed, with all except #3. But that is a topic for another thread.

    Anyhow, way to miss the point with your post.

    This is not, at all, about APT ripping infantry a new one (as they should), but this is about peoples making an APT while in that same gas grace you were complaining about in #4 of your list.

    At least read my post before you start whining.
    Lupusceleri L220/30/70 Agent -- Advisor of Spartans -- equip endgame AR setup endgame def setup <3 Azs wearer of Cheree's pants
    Arrowsmith -- Arafellin -- Alphacenta -- Aesculapias -- Wolfseye -- Lysdexic


    TL5 enf twink: im out those MPs are to overpowered

    crattey: The Balance Discussion forum. Where common sense goes to die.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Lupusceleri View Post
    What's the APT mean for the attackers? You'll have to:

    1. Run out of gas to lose aggro.
    2. Mech up.
    3. Come back.
    4. Kill the APT noob.
    5. Run out of gas again to lose aggro.
    6. Unmech.
    7. Come back.
    8. Start shooting CT again.
    Yes, this is exactly what happens when an average player or full agg player tries to attack a site alone and someone actually tries to defend their site. There are plenty of ways to hold aggro on a CT and not get hit by an APT which means plenty of time for someone to come and mech and allow you to finish it off. Melee profs can also hold aggro on the CT's as well.

    If they have 3 APTs then 1 player does not deserve that site.
    If they have 3 APTs and 3 AVB's you sure as hell better have an army with you too if you are whining about not taking it.
    You can only defend the CT with APTs, once you clear the supporting towers you usually have another 3 hours to take out the rest of the site.
    If you OS when someone is trying to APT, they tend to not be there anymore.

    Reids will probly see this one and share his tl3-4 views, which are the only areas where one can whine, but there are honestly not enough defenders for the attackers at that level either. What tl3-4 needs is an instance that draws new twinks and players to that area, and thus increases the playerbase for those wars.

    The tl5 wars I have been to simply clear the tower site, mech for the APTs that are around the CT, then take out the CT. When someone tried APTing in grace (which is the defending orgs players only!!!) their 1 or 2 APTs is not going to take out 2 to 3 teams of tl5's alone, its the supporting twinks that make a difference at tl5 not APTs.

    Tl2 this is still a non-issue.

    Quit trying to solo tower sites. This seriously has never seemed to stop anyone from taking a site, and its one of the few buffers allowing twinks such as mine to get OSB's to match the attacking traders. Althought it doesn't really matter, Means is going to eliminate meching under grace.
    Last edited by gatester; Jul 5th, 2009 at 17:03:46.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Lupusceleri View Post
    The point here: three toons (just an example) attack, one toon makes an APT, all 3 toons have to run or they die.

    So you put one toon in a mech permanently, to kill off APT. Now, 2-3 real twinks come in and start fighting with you... of course that'll be much tougher than when the mech was on feet as usual.
    Eh? I don't see your point. If you can't win in a 3vs1 fight when you are the 3, that is sad. It doesn't matter how long it takes to kill the CT. Killing is killing. You want it to go faster?

    " /o Hey guys I need help finishing this CT kill, we are winning"

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