I have the perfect (almost) solution on how to nerf healing to 50% in PvP.

[Letah]

hehe we do have a TEAM CH its called Alpha and Omega but its 12s/12s so not really practicle other then sometimes in bossrooms or during NT nuke teams in camelot.

[dodgeman]

just would like to say that best init débuff are doing -2560 in all inits skills,and this one is broked by a single shot on the target,so now u would like to *fix*(nerf is same in that case) the lone init debuff working normally...
do you know the requirement for that nano(tremor)
over 860 PM/BM,so after reaching this so high requirement you would like we use a init débuff like ql 70,you joke.
that mean only a really high lvl DOC can use it and atleast i know lots of high lvls doc that can t use it without outside buff.
now u have to stop that silly threads,you can t imagine how hard it is to be a doc and how boring it is in PvP.
Mass PvP=doc most wanted target and first to be killed(easily)
single PvP=waiting hours to get a duel with someone doing it for fun or just fighting not to the death.wow what a great profession,standing days after days in hope of duelling someone..

[_______________Fryli]

Originally posted by Flak "Stromm" Tempest


Ok i'm not sure if that was sarcastic or not...

Yea, it was a bit sarcastic... just to counter Garzu and his desire to nerf heal.... and now he is a fixer....

If you are in for the "heal-nerf", then tell me why should not all these other defensive nanos and equipment be nerfed?

Man, this really isn't that hard. Epilision purge cancels not only our ncu buff but BOTH our HoTs. Your poisons will not be 'evening out our HoTs' if they're gone altogether. Regardless of whether we go full def or not we will not do any dmg at all, you will most likely be missing a lot but the poison is what will eat the fixer up. And i'm sorry but anyone who uses RD/RGJ in CONSENTED duels is simply pathetic.

I'm not gona start a fight agains u over this, but have any doc ever hit u with EP? Because i gues all these Omni fixers i've fought in 2ho and mmd can tell you how good it is... I'll rater spend my nano on healing and dot's then try "chain-cast" Ep to make it stick, the chanse is i run out of nano way before it stick on fixers.

"I've had a few fights agains fixers where i simply had to zone, because i ran out of nano when i was not even close to killing them. (Even tho they where 30-40 lvl lower then me)."

And Fryli i am level 160 and you are level 200. I'll duel you any time to prove to you you're wrong about this.

Why am i wrong about this, it's my experience. You might have some other experience then i have, but still this is mine.

Not to mention, init debuffing us while we are at full def makes our weapon go to 4/4 or even higher....Hell thats like a soldier trying to fire a regular shot from a IEC at full agg and 1k init.

Then go full agg... it's not like i will hit u ofter then once every blue moon....

You can call me a noob all you want.

Why should i? u are more experienced in pvp then most other ppl, and i dont mean duels, but real combat as in 2ho where every class has it's mission. And both u and me know that none of us is real mean killing machines, u survive a long time due to high evades and GA, i survive due to my heals.

To sum it up on this thread, this is all getting really redundant. 50% everything? it's mostly the same as 100% everything with a 40% damage or direct heal max. What if we halved reflect dmg...HoTs...heals...damage...you'll just fall asleep easier, that is it.

Well, all i can say is if they nerf heals, then they have to nerf everything... from mk, nullity, evades, debuffs(of allkinds)...
After all it was all made for full dmg game.... but to me it seems like ppl are pissed at doc's because we are not an easy kill in duels. Well if they nerf heals... u wont be seing many doc's around in pvp, it's not like we "own" the server these days... even tho we are suposed to be godly in pvp...

[Naraya]

Originally posted by Drsweetie1
Decreptitude for one is like a root it wont stick. Tremors not easy self cast for any doc unless your lv 195+ with nice rare items. Rapid Palsy fairly easy self cast at lv 162. I do init debuff everyone fight in pvp and they still put out considerable amount of damage that I still have to heal. If I have cast full heal more than twice during a battle might well count myself dead if i'm taking that much damage plus I will end up running out nano pool very fast. Docs doing much damage as anyone else think your way off there. I do damage which is decent but was doing more damage than other people or anyone else then probably not need heal would I? Make a doctor alt please and play a doc for awhile till you ask for them to be nerfed

Wait wait wait.....

Decreptitude CANNOT be removed with a simple debuff, no. Once it is on, it runs full duration unless I feel like fondling the Insurance Reclaim. With almost 1k in ranged init and over 1k in nano init, I still get thrown into the -1000's when that nano hits. Resisting it is no simple task either with it's 100% NR def skill. Nano Shutdown has a NR def skill of 160%. The Trader Plunder? 190%. The init debuffs should have at least 150% NR and not last more than 1 minute. Having this ability + healing ability is too much...

I don't care about CH...CH is costly and I can debuff you out of it (that is...if you haven't fondled the nearest MP for multiple mochies).

And I've seen docs with a LLTS / Shotgun combo do ridiculous damage. The LLTS nerf will put a dent into that..somewhat, but still.

...and if you debuffed someone's inits and they were still getting good damage on you, I must ask: Do you still wear the med suit?

[Naraya]

Originally posted by North
Naraya,

Sure its very easy to keep up with the healing abilities with your nanos.

Oh I never said it wasn't. My rant of imbalance focuses on the init debuffs they have. That, the ability to heal, and the ability to do decent damage...all three together is simply too much....

...and someone told me that Docs wanted crowd control too. LOL.

[_______________Fryli]

Originally posted by Naraya


Wait wait wait.....

Decreptitude CANNOT be removed with a simple debuff, no. Once it is on, it runs full duration unless I feel like fondling the Insurance Reclaim.

Ok, i'm not gona flame u...
But have u ever done any pvp, and been hit by Decrepitude from a doc? Seems like not...

Because it breaks when someone hits u, or by using a debuff, if u dont belive me go try it.
Thats why u dont see doc's running around and casting it left and right in pvp. If it however did stick, i would have no problem to agree that it was to powerfull. But as it is now, no doc that i know of even bother to use it, heck i dont even bother to use it when i get "adds" in pvp, because the debuff breaks from the reflect of my bracer/shield.

[loca]

50% heals 50% tms mongo and other stuff in game

[_______________Fryli]

Nt's might wanna take a look at those new nc's for the profession.... a cpl of them look pretty good to me.

http://v020u46eff.maximumasp.com/AOD...sp?AOID=201936

http://v020u46eff.maximumasp.com/AOD...sp?AOID=202263

[loca]

fry..just shut up..or use soldiers combo ..tms alt f4

sounds godlike

u can kill traders with alpha if u r not happy enough just use it

[_________Disciple092]

ok hows this for an idea give the init debuff a NCU cost for the doc to keep it running on target like 30 ncu or so...that way at the very least we can stop the dam bunker hopping debuffers

dubuffers hitting everyone they can target in 2Ho totally ruins PvP for everyone

maybe even look into that for divest/plunder too...traders deserve the skill boost on drains but NOONE deserves to cripple PvP

[stromm]

Originally posted by Fryli
[B]

Yea, it was a bit sarcastic... just to counter Garzu and his desire to nerf heal.... and now he is a fixer....

If you are in for the "heal-nerf", then tell me why should not all these other defensive nanos and equipment be nerfed?

[B]

I'm not gona start a fight agains u over this, but have any doc ever hit u with EP? Because i gues all these Omni fixers i've fought in 2ho and mmd can tell you how good it is... I'll rater spend my nano on healing and dot's then try "chain-cast" Ep to make it stick, the chanse is i run out of nano way before it stick on fixers.

[B]

Why am i wrong about this, it's my experience. You might have some other experience then i have, but still this is mine.

[B]

Then go full agg... it's not like i will hit u ofter then once every blue moon....

[B]

Why should i? u are more experienced in pvp then most other ppl, and i dont mean duels, but real combat as in 2ho where every class has it's mission. And both u and me know that none of us is real mean killing machines, u survive a long time due to high evades and GA, i survive due to my heals.



Well, all i can say is if they nerf heals, then they have to nerf everything... from mk, nullity, evades, debuffs(of allkinds)...
After all it was all made for full dmg game.... but to me it seems like ppl are pissed at doc's because we are not an easy kill in duels. Well if they nerf heals... u wont be seing many doc's around in pvp, it's not like we "own" the server these days... even tho we are suposed to be godly in pvp...

Guns have been nerfed. Fling, burst, full auto, regular damage, crits...you name a hit, it's been nerfed. But as i pointed out even if you half heals you can heal 5k hp which is a significant amount...Thus i am saying that it really doesnt do much and if you half healing as well as HoTs youll have to half reflect damage otherwise saving yourself reflect damage is all HoTs will be good for. I guess i can agree with Psinoe with this one, that nanos use nano power and guns use bullets, thus it should not be so easily said to just 'nerf heals.'

"but to me it seems like ppl are pissed at doc's because we are not an easy kill in duels."

Your thinking reflects mine. People are pissed at fixers because we aren't easy kills. Anymore.

"Then go full agg... it's not like i will hit u ofter then once every blue moon...."

I tried this with Tubia. Even going full agg will not do enough damage and the poison will kill me before that happens. I cannot refresh HoTs either with the severe nano init negator either, by that time i will have been aimed/fling'ed, poisoned, and possibly a crit hitting me. Going full agg with GA is not nearly effective as it is going fully defensive.. The best thing we could do is like psinoe said - run. But...Don't soldiers run from doctors and rooting professions? Don't NTs run from MPs/Traders? Doesn't every profession in the game run from trader debuffs? Everyone runs when they know they are unable to kill the target, in mass pvp. It isn't just a fixer thing, everyone does it.

On an unrelated topic - concerning NTs, i honestly think the 50% rule should not apply to them. It will of course never 'always do 40%' because Corona armor's ACs drastically reduce the amount of damage nukes do to you, NT nukes are almost ineffective from what i have seen against people using this universally-protective armor...ive seen a NT nuke that takes several seconds to cast/recharge do as low as 300 points of damage to a soldier. Ridiculous. That's one shot from my mcs...I keep saying it, all i'll ever need to do vs an NT in a duel is strap on love armor and i'll have no problem at all, the crit nerf only supports this more. Another thing, a friend of mine brought up a point ingame that scopes should not effect nano init if nanoformula offensives cannot critically hit. As far as NT nukes not having the 50% rule against grid armor fixers? It's basically like that already. Most of the time when Vergil single-target nukes me i'm low as hell on hp. Same with the 'rule of one' nano crats have i've taken up to 1.7k damage in nuke dmg from that. While any other profession will take 300 damage from that (Who doesn't use corona's at high level if it isn't grid armor?)

[loca]

stromm ..fixa noob u bought ga4 on ebay or found it with ur main?

[______________Ylisar]

Docs has no damn reason whine. When docs looks for team it takes like 5-10 secs to get 1. They wouldnt still be somewhere in the top with 50% heals in pvp. They are atm among the best tradeskillers (due to their implants). As it is now docs has probably most strong sides compared to other profs.

[loca]

i agree its a good reason ...but i desagree about crat pets

u have no idea about crat pets

first learn something about crat pets first..then post a good reason 2 whine about it

[_________Divinecross]

Again half people posting here never played doctors to high lvs. Reminds of noobs commenting on bracers and llts's and I'm sure you can remember what that is getting you.

Init debuffs are strong yes they suppose to be. You can still fight after your init debuff and put out much damage as before just at slightly slower rate. I sure love those trader drains. One drain my gun is OEed, my ams falls by 200 points, all my nanos become useless and all I can do is die. Even with init debuff running on say enforcer i'm going to have hard time staying alive if I even manage to stay alive. Even as a doc I manage when another doc init debuffs me and can at times actually kill that doc. I mean really what do you think we are going kill you with that so nice. Any doc that even wants to hit you often will use shotgun for higher ams and shotguns are dependant on % which getting nerfed soon. Big blow to doctors there. We have crappy weapon skill except we have somewhat noteworth shotgun skills.

Sure you get mad when you see your one hit away from killing someone they heal to full but do you think I dont anger when I cannot hit fixer, become completely powerless to trader/mp or die some insanely powerful alpha strike? Suppose should come here and whine about it?

I nice to see doctors are target to be made easy kills. Try looking around for novice and above doctors. Since this argument about the effectiviness of doctors in pvp. Will be pretty sad when there no doctors left in game to keep you alive when you decide fight some sort of unique mob etc.

[____________Infamine]

Hey Angelic stop whinning already all the docs i know agree that heals are overpowered. You wanna play game with me while i do 100% damage and you can only heal 40% max ? No thats what i thought

[_________Divinecross]

Originally posted by Infamine
Hey Angelic stop whinning already all the docs i know agree that heals are overpowered. You wanna play game with me while i do 100% damage and you can only heal 40% max ? No thats what i thought

Yay sure just so long I can do 100% damage too. And hey if you want do 50% heals lets do TMS/RRFE at 50% too.

[____________Infamine]

Exactly my point you dont wanna do it 100/40 so why should i do it 40/100 ? i cant see the reason here but still i have to do it how nice and then again doc will say heals arent overpowered lol

edited typos

[Razzitazz]

Wow, this was a long thread for me to soak up.

First of all, from the start of this. Garzu, Nano shutdown doesn't last 20 seconds. I wish it did but i believe its a one minute duration. Also, I know that complete heal is somewhat overpowering in PvP but in my experience the nanocost is quite drastic. First alpha, and all those crits, I really need to complete heal. Remember, heals don't crit and damage is usually higher then my regular heals.

Also, our init debuffs do last far too long. I know this from playing Pierce. All these stupid debuffs (trader drains, init debuffs, NS) are much more powerful then CH.

As for 50% everything. I'm not really sure where I stand on that. Soldiers having a max of 50% reflect, docs healing 50%, etc. I just can't see that working. Things are coming closer to balance from what I have seen in the last year. Fights are actually lasting a little while and I have seen every profession beat every profession (to an extent).

Not sure why I'm even posting. There has been tons of stuff in this post my mind is fried. All I know is Medi can no way compete with the dmg from soldiers/MAs/etc. CH, if anything, balances us in to a viable opponent in PvP. Take it away and we are underpowered in pvp. Not sure what to do here, just ranting >.<.

[Tza]

A few quick thoughts:

Up evades even more than they are now (ie. docs won't hit that often)

Fight more on def (guess what - with the ELLTS nerf, it'll be a posibility - perhaps also help on the above)

Give fighting professions some attack rating lub (MA's, Enfs and Soljas - traders will get the AR anyways lol - fixers got good AR compared to their evades as it is)

Think docs will be doing alot of dam with their guns now?
I think they'd use their DoTs a bit more, don't you?

Wich again means?

Other classes will have to rely on their own selfhealing capabilities along with damage dealing capabilities

=

More balanced PvP for docs - and when fighting docs (docs are a DoT with a heal:P)

______________________________

"How often do you hear a doc saying "I got a kill" on PvP chats?"
Too much if you ask me:P

Docs are there to keep the team alive, healing and debuffing - and aiding a bit with their weapon (note: didn't say shottie), not out collecting heads (hint* support class)

So get your kills in duels instead

"But everybody's running"

So? You won the duel - ppl know who's the better PvP'er - let it be so, not that you win because of the class instead of the person behind..

________________________________

And someone drain and keep Dodgeman rooted so I can take that Novice he gained on me away