Nerfing Low Light Targeting Scope

[____________Ejeckted]

Originally posted by Sheffy


The Pioneer Backpack is in-game, some players have it, but other players can not get a new one. They can get it from somebody else who already has one. The same is true for ELLTS scopes.

Pioneer Backpacks do not affect class balance,
weapon balance, PvP balance, or anything else.
They let your lowbie alt run a little faster.

but there shouldn't be a 'grey area' at all.
Pioneer Backpacks were a silly novelty item, yes,
but if it's all or nothing then let them drop somehow too.

Same rules should apply to everyone/everything.

And while your concern about IPR is valid, the simple workaround would be to add 2 IPR points to every character in the game

much better non-exploitable option.

tho I am tempted to say screw anyone who has wasted
a dozen IPR points because they want to play a different
character every week. IPRs should never have been introduced.
IPRs make character development choices irrelevant.
Just get to 200 then decide what you want to be. Lame.
IPRs are there for when funcom screws you. Like now.
They're not there as a regular part of the game to play with.

[____________mgbkurtz]

you wont add any new positives to the LLTS that will make every profession happy. i see engis maybe looking for trade skills, NTs would like MC buff, traders and T&S buff, etc. bring the old school LLTS back into the game (up to 15%) so everyone is happy again, bring out the QL400 VE or JUST LEAVE EVERYTHING THE WAY IT IS!!!

edit: and this is coming from an MA... make the LLTS non-MA so we cant stack LMA/UVC with LLTS, but give a VE as the same crit amount (this means bring QL400 VEs into the game for MAs only for now) with upped phys. init penalty. but then there are MAs that use bows...ugh! no one wins here!

for instance: new LLTS stats

QL 15
Value 7500
Requirements electrical eng >= 46
weapon smithing >= 31

Effects
change vision
modify self aimed shot 30
modify self critical chance 1
modify self melee init -50
modify self physical init -5000
modify self ranged init -50
modify self weapon range 1

new VE stats:

QL 100
Value 75000
Requirements perception >= 151

Effects
modify self aimed shot 30
modify self critical chance 1
modify self melee init -50
modify self nano init -50
modify self physical init -100 (2x as before)
modify self ranged init -50
modify self weapon range 1



just a thought

kurtz

[______________Soccom]

Nerf BAD!
no change GOOD!
Call me a camel.
Call the nerf a single straw.
All these nerfs have caused back problems.

[Getwrangled]

Why is FC nerfing items in game at the one year point?

How do they suddenly figure LLTS are unfair to game?

What were they thinking when they designed it? Or removed them? Did you ban the designer who added to the game? Did ya'll just find out about it?

I have only been here 2-3 months but it seems the effort should go into ADDING not taking away.

I think you did great with dyna camps, its fun to be outside now. Keep adding not taking away.

If another person has a 15% scope, no one is going to quit over it.
But...

If a person just spend their life savings on 15% scope and you nerf it, that would make me quit.

Where do you all sit down and talk about what is fair?
I observed a level 131 agent critting a 198 boss unfairly and think we need to nerf the scope.

Your meetings should have these 3 items.
1. Player retention
2. New player recruiting.
3. Bug fixes

You do want to keep players right?
Whats it going to solve when you get this game "perfect" and you only have 25 players left?

[Bloodcub]

Oh, goddie I'll have a scope after 14.6 that's kinda worthless (12%).

FC Announcement (by Cz): "We're going to nerf the critical chance bonus on the old Low Light Targeting Scope to be equal to the Targeting Scope - Vision Enhancer."

to make it good and confusing Cz says in tread (Nerfing LLTS - Improvement suggestions only); "Ok, topic set: Suggestions for improvements to LLTS, to make it viable if getting a crit bonus nerf. "

"We are" and "if" doh... I'll still regard the announcement for the real (and evil) plan with the llts tho :/

Which means that unless the llts changes HUD module or adds a nice fat dmg inc (in one way or another), why would I use a scope that gives atfer 14.6 patch LESS crit than a QL250 VE?

I sure don't want to trade crit for tradeskill tho.. :P

[luxferro]

Put a big trash can in the middle of Tir that gives us 5Mil per QL of the scope. You drop your scope in and get X amount of money... no more scopes, no more whiners (for a while)...

i mean there is nothing that you are going to add to make up for the value and crit bonus that you are taking away from people. Nothing!!! (oh, and we like our crits for PVM too.. not just PVP!!! are you gonna scale down the Hitpoints of mobs now too?)

I have a few scopes, one being a 14%.. never used it, and always kept it just in case i need it. Also because of it's rarity and value. i am poor ATM.. and to think i could have had +250M so i can get some other uber item... why not just nerf the whole F'ing game.. make us all leets, arm us with pillows.

There is no reason to justify nerfing items just cause people complain that other players have advantages in PVP!!!! who really cares about PVP.. it is all messed up.. and is the source of 99% of the problems with the game.

If you really must NERF it.. make is so it has no requirements and no negative modifiers.. then it wil still be desired!

oh ya, make it so it can be used in any HUD location as the post above says... also, just FYI.. the newer scopes are a joke to equip.. when there a numerous perception buffs out there.. 600+, ect...

[Sheffy]

Originally posted by Luxferro
oh ya, make it so it can be used in any HUD location as the post above says... also, just FYI.. the newer scopes are a joke to equip.. when there a numerous perception buffs out there.. 600+, ect...

So true. Maybe make them OE? Oh my god, you mean people would actually have to raise skills to use these items?

--Tsk

[Runningwild]

Dont nerf the old ones, but remove -init on the new ones

[______________Insida]

I say give them a All.Off bonus like the Auto Targeting nano effect, its a targeting scope after all, should help in aiming better not just critting.

[AkodoReign]

you want a answer to why. go to the PVP forums 10% of the poplutation realy dig pvp. But 100% of them Whine about it. Since we all know its about what the whiner's want Here at funcom This 10% drove the 15% out of the game, Got Bracers Nerfed etc.

[_________________DIO]

FC plz respect to our money and time !!!!!!!!!!!!!
well if u nerf it plz buy it from me with the price i bought it!!!!!!!!

So trader heal+ma cirtical======>bracer=========> llts then what ? GA? uvc ? last word ???????

[Canto]

Do not remove the old scopes, but do this instead:

1 and (2 or 2a) and 3

1) Remove the effect of scopes on HTH/Melee... this is a bug that should be fixed as opposed to nerfing scopes.

AND

2) Cap crits at 15% for everyone all the time from any effects and make them dependent on AC as well as evades (this is how it should be anyway, it is silly that AC doesn't influence crit resistance now). A good argument could be made that critical hits should never be higher than 1/6 in a combat game.

or

2a) Only allow the highest crit modifier to operate at any given time + add AC into crit resist.

AND

3) Remove the 50% dmg rule in PvP. With the melee/hth bug fixed, and crits capped and resisted by AC as much or more than evades, PvP combat would last significantly longer.

I love to see people here rationalizing why they should keep their massive critical hit advantage over other players that old scopes represent. Instead of making a good argument that there should be two classes of players in the game (and a 15% crit scope, unlike anything else in the game, armor, weapons, whatever definitely creates two classes of players), they resort to calling players asking for an equal playing field "nerf-whores", "carebears," or "whiners." LOFL! If there is no chance that a player can get a highly unbalancing item that others acquired before, there is no equal playing field, end of discussion. The funniest are the ones who grouse about money spent to acquire scopes in a game where money literally grows on trees.

Wait, even funnier are the ones who compare a 15%LLTS to a PIONEER BACKPACK...LOL.

So, I vote that old scopes should stay in... PROVIDED that ALL THREE of the above suggestions are implemented. I already know what the responses of the old scope owners will be to my suggestions, but can't wait to see how articulately and convincingly they are expressed.

[aiwass777]

Originally posted by Luxferro
I have a few scopes, one being a 14%.. never used it, and always kept it just in case i need it. Also because of it's rarity and value. i am poor ATM.. and to think i could have had +250M so i can get some other uber item... why not just nerf the whole F'ing game.. make us all leets, arm us with pillows.

To quote some l33t d00d p]-[iXxX0r: "250 million isn't a lot of money. Suck it up and drive on."

Perhaps it may have been wise to consider the possibility that these scopes, which no longer drop because of imbalance issues, may be nerfed at a later date.

[Haizen]

You can not change anything...

Every item in the game can be used by every player (note: I didn`t say char).
It just takes work to get the good stuff,just as in real life,and that is how it should be - a level playing field exists by default because EVERYONE is a player therefore anyone is equal - the only difference between a good char and a bad char is the skill/hard work of the PLAYER.

Nothing should EVER be taken out of the game once it`s in general use. New items should be added often to give more variety and interest for players, which would create a broad and interesting game.

As for balancing, well it isn`t going to happen. For a MMPORG to be good it has to have a massive amount of veriety, which in it`s self will create un-balanced chars because people play differently. Who wants to be a cookie anyway...? Not me. The one thing that makes RPG`s borring is when every char of every class is the same .....

Please Funcom, you must understand that this is a game of skill and knowledge, you cannot change the rules mid-game.

So my advice to funcom is this....leave the rules of the AO universe alone...and let the chips fall where they may....

Darkian.
Shotgun Agent 175
RK-2

[_______________Vydas]

Hrm, all you folks that think this is just fine, remember this - whatever it is that you have that is good will be nerfed sooner or later, too. Why? Because it's the nature of nerfing.

So, perhaps use a little forsight, and do not base your character on any item/nano/class ability - because those are all fair game, if you will pardon the use of that phrase.

[ZanEridath]

Originally posted by Whitesand


Our crit chance should be the chance which our highest crit modifier has (buffs, items, etc) Let me explain what i mean.

You are a lvl200 MA with a 15% LLTS and 2 Globe of Clarity. Fully buffed with uvc and tts (don't know if they stack but it doesn't matter for my example). So you will have 15% + 2*1% + 4% + 24% = 45% crit chance. A way to high right! Lets say tts and uvc don't stack then you still have 41% crit chance. Still to high! Lets nerf LLTS to 8% then you still have 35%. I say still to high! But let go the other way. The best crit modifier this lvl200 MA has is his uvc buff which means 24% crit. So he only should have a 24% crit chance not more!

A lvl200 Crat for a example (he don't have the uvc) buff will have only 15% crit why? Cause the best crit modifier is his LLTS.

Seems like a much better solution than nerfing scopes.

[skybert]

First off, I'm kinda tired, so I haven't read through all 15 pages (yet. will do that tomorrow), but I just want to say this:

Many people has worked their butts off the get an LLTS. (I've never had one, doubt I ever will)
After they stopped dropping, their value has increased enormously. Because they are rare, and they are nice.

If you nerf them, people arre gonna get mad. No doubt about that. Not even the slightest.

edit, removed the suggestioons, and placed them in the suggestions-thread instead. My bad.

[_______________oXiDe]

Originally posted by Outlauw



hmmm.. it's listening to the customers that starts all the nerf talks... the more you listen the more you hear that person yelling... I just got beat by an Engineer in PvP... NERF HIM!!!

I hope that was an example seeing that I have yet to have an engineer beat me :P

Only part of it is the whiners that cause nerfs.. The true problem is :

FC is a company.. they are out to make money.. but they 1.) either don't have the resources needed to really fix the game.. which requires balancing the professions and monsters.. or 2.) they don't care about the players ( their customers)

FC has made it appearently evident that they prefer easy bandaid fixes rather than getting to the core problem... its like doctors that treat the symptoms but ignore the illness.

So in regards to this situation, FC is nerfing the ELLTS. The reason the first removed them was because they were afraid of people lvling too fast (getting to 200).. and therefore leaving the game.. ( thats totally false) Please leave games when the game becomes too boring.. ( LIKE LVLING FROM 150-200) its slow.. there isn't much to look forward too, and there is a big lack of content..

I want to get a crit.. I love getting crits.. I SHOULD be able to crit a mob.. as often as it lands a crit on me..

Fc don't BAND-AID fix this... leave things ALONE. take a hard look at the new mobs that were introduced in this last patch...the exuberant amount of HP they have, their attack rating.. I know as a lvl 157 MP.. while fighing anything higher than a lvl 190 mob... my pets actions are like this:

miss, miss, miss, miss, miss, miss, miss, miss, miss, miss, miss, miss, miss, 700, miss, miss, miss, miss, miss 600, miss, miss, miss, miss, miss, miss, miss, 900.. etc..

This isn't right.. something is already wrong in the game.. if a lvl 200 demon buffed with the best MP buffs.. is still missing.. my 11 % crit scope is about the only thing thats offering me a pseudo chance in landing a good hit on a mob seeing that my pet is missing every hit.

Why are you (FC) so intent on nerfing people because they are doing mediocre damage. ?? Answer this please !!!! Why?? its like you want us to do minimal damage all the time !!!

God forbid we use tools in the game that enhance our damage output.

These old school scopes should be put back into the game for everyone to use.

CZ.. i'm not trying to be a jerk about this.. but seriously... why is FC trying to throw hurdles in the road for us players? We really are customers.. if a local store kept making my shopping experience dissapointing.. i'd eventually stop shopping there. Its like at every turn you guys are taking peoples abilities away.. (like crats and NT's crowd control abilities, enigneers aggression trimmers, camping?)

[Tonna]

OMFG..i cant belive it!

i have read over 300 threds about this,and FC,i really cant belive this ****.nerf ELLTS is the end of this game!

[________AnotherFixer]

Critical damage, in any way, shape, or form, was a stupid idea in the first place. Then, adding nanos and items that increased chances for critical damage in a non uniform pattern was an even dumber idea.

Funcom is finally realizing this.

When you work to achieve not only PvP class balance, but reconcile that with PvM equality, you need to be able to guage very accurately what the spectrum of characters are going to be doing damage-wise throughout all levels. You need to be able to control that as well. If not, you end up with WHAT DOES EXIST IN AO RIGHT NOW...

1. Large class imbalance in PvP.

2. The need to apply different damage rules between PvP and PvM. Gees folks, this alone should have been a giant blinking clue that something was amiss with player damage.

If damage is more uniform, then balance is more easily achieved. And balance, folks, is the key to game longevity and customer retention. Why?

Look at the state of PvP now. Everyone says how imbalanced it is, yet its the only thing to do at higher levels. As such, you see the same few folks in the same small PvP areas all the time. If it were balanced, a larger percentage of the population would take part making it far more interesting.

Also, for those that say PvM will be much too hard, well guess what? More accurately controlling and being able to guage player damage will make it easier to reconcile PvM damage with PvP damage and for FC to tailor mobs better. I'd imagine that FC will look into Mob HP or defensive capability once they get player damage to a manageable state.

It's the knee-jerk reaction of the population being "nerfed" to have a fit when it happens. With the LLTS, especially considering how much people paid for those silly things, I can somewhat sympathize with their feelings as well. However, look at what it is supposed to do; increase your overall enjoyment of the game by allowing more people to take part in a larger scope of the game environment and being able to interact with you.

Then again, if you're just upset because you don't think you're going to be "uber" anymore, you're not really a person that needs to be reasoned with. You're supposed to play a MMORPG for the social aspect of the game. Competing on equal levels and interacting with the rest of the game community. If you want to be the "winner" or try to gleen some false sense of accomplishment by being the "best", then play some button-smashing console game or first-person shooter.

This is the same reason why I feel PvP titles are again, a very stupid idea, but that is another story...