You are kidding with this "Civility" thing right?

[Deaconfrost]

Hello, AO Player since 2001 Launch here who has 6 accounts and has played the game for 13 years now.

I'll try to keep this brief.

1. The main reason the forums have "gone bad" is because of FC repeated broken promises and false advertising.

*I didn't use the word "LIED" even though I want to and it definitely fits the behavior of Funcom as I shall prove through exhibit A*

Exhibit A: http://forums.anarchy-online.com/sho...d.php?t=606416

2. So lets recap here. Since 2008 we have been told each year that the NEW ENGINE will be released in that year. Thats 6 (SIX) YEARS of broken promises which might be a communities breaking point as far as trust, respect, and yes civility goes.

Thinking about "WHY" the forums have "gone bad lately" might be useful since it is due to the behavior of Funcom and 6 years of broken promises and assertions "it will be released this year" starting in 2008.

Those were "factually incorrect" lets say since once again I don't want to use the word that correctly describes the actions of Funcom since I might get in trouble for it.

Here's an idea. Instead of spending more time moderating people expressions of BITTER DISAPPOINTMENT that FC has repeated made completely untrue assertions, promises, and timetable, why dont you get more people from FC to actually finish the engine?

I, as an AO player for 13 (THIRTEEN YEARS) am sick and tired of supporting AoC, TSW, The Lego Game, etc while AO has a one person team it seems.

Why, instead of limiting peoples right to express their anger over 6 (SIX) YEARS of broken promises and unfufilled timetables, why dont you GET THE RESOURCES NECESSARY TO GET THE JOB THATS NOW 6 YEARS OVERDUE FINISHED?

3. One last thing. Any "relationship" is a partnership and a two way street. We have the right (in my case paid for by 13 (THIRTEEN) YEARS OF SUBSCRIPTION) to say to our "partner" in FC that "you aren't getting the job done" and "you gave incorrect timetables and faulty promises and have done so for 6 (SIX) YEARS now".

Maybe you guys at FC really dont understand how much people love this game? Or how insanely disappointed we get when you SEEM to do NO WORK, like the new engine. (NOTE THE WORD "SEEM".)

I really can't describe my bitter disappointment when I logged into the Beta and saw the "new engine" in which you didnt bother to update a single old texture.

Yeah that original barrel from the 2001 launch looks *GREAT* with all the fancy new lighting effects and such on it! *sarcasm off*

So why am I "bitterly disappointed" and being "sarcastic"? Well its because after making us wait for 6+ years for a new engine, you didnt bother to update any textures, and they quite frankly look awful in the new engine with all its cool shadows and godrays.

As someone who has played and PAID AO for 13 YEARS NOW, I have the right to express my opinion.

I also have the right, just like any other customer in any other type of business, to complain about FALSE ADVERTISING AND BROKEN PROMISES which FC has been feeding us for 6 years now.

FINISH. THE. "NEW ENGINE". AND. JUST. MAYBE. UPGRADE. THE. TEXTURES. SO. IT. ACTUALLY. LOOKS. LIKE. A. GRAPHICS. "UPGRADE".

[Notevenmad]

you mad brah?

[Bekrowe]

You have every right to express your dissatisfaction with the progress in Anarchy Online updates. No one has said you can't. You can feel free to post things which you feel are wrong. However what we are saying is that you can not and should not post disrespectfully.

As I already said in another thread.

Look folks,

The forum rules do not allow personal attacks and what you all have been doing is exactly that. The new policy posted in the Announcements and stickied in several forums is due to the over the top abusive posts you have been making. If you want to complain feel free. We aren't sweeping things under the rug we are removing threads which contain personal attacks. If you can't post civilly about the matter then take a break and come back and post when you have calmed down. If you have to turn to attacks on a persons character, sexuality, skill or anything else, don't post.

There are several posts still posted to these forums complaining about the changes Funcom has made to AO, we haven't removed them nor are we going to, but we will continue to enforce the rules of the forums removing posts which are abusive in nature, or just trolling. Post constructively and there won't be an issue.

And Personal opinion on how the game should be changed versus that which the Developers are doing doesn't equal inept or anything of the similar statements. It equals a disagreement between your train of thought and that of the developers, who I might add at least have access to the code base of the game which gives them a different perspective than you have.

[Deaconfrost]

you mad brah?

Yes. Thanks for playing. <3

[Deaconfrost]

ok Bekrowe.

Quick question tho, do you guys even get this?

"So lets recap here. Since 2008 we have been told each year that the NEW ENGINE will be released in that year. Thats 6 (SIX) YEARS of broken promises which might be a communities breaking point as far as trust, respect, and yes civility goes."

Do you guys running the AO community for Funcom understand the reason the forums has lost some "civility" and people are a lot angrier than normal is due to 6 years of FC broken promises?

Does Funcom get it?

[Bekrowe]

You've been in AO for quite a long time as you stated. The thing is that the rules of the forums have not changed. The simple fact is that it doesn't change the rules just because someone is upset, feels insulted by the company. The rules of the forums remain as they are.

As an Advisor of Rubi-Ka (ARK) I'm a player just like yourself. The only difference is that I also assist with things such as moderation of the public forums and other activities in-game.

I can understand the frustration but that doesn't excuse the lack of common civility on the forums. Personal attacks are not the way to get your point across and more people really should learn to understand that. Your post here is not a personal attack against anyone and is why I responded to you. Posts that have been removed have been personal attacks against individuals and those are never acceptable on the forums.

[Caloss2]

Telling people not to vent their justifiable anger on the forums under the guise of servility crackdown, yes new players might even read posts that state facts like the OP's and we couldn't have that now could we.

If someone that is a singular person, does something that incites anger and frustration should the question be not how to best contain and hide it, but why is that singular person allowed to make these decisions in the first place ?

And should they remain in that position?

Clearly not.

[metaluv]

Telling people not to vent their justifiable anger on the forums under the guise of servility crackdown, yes new players might even read posts that state facts like the OP's and we couldn't have that now could we.

If someone that is a singular person, does something that incites anger and frustration should the question be not how to best contain and hide it, but why is that singular person allowed to make these decisions in the first place ?

And should they remain in that position?

Clearly not.

where was anyone told they're not allowed to vent ? the types of not allowed actions are obvious, and are not venting, you can complain all you want, it really isn't that hard to follow the rules, but you know.... multiple accounts and anonymity = act like 12 yr olds

[Bekrowe]

Telling people not to vent their justifiable anger on the forums under the guise of servility crackdown, yes new players might even read posts that state facts like the OP's and we couldn't have that now could we.

If someone that is a singular person, does something that incites anger and frustration should the question be not how to best contain and hide it, but why is that singular person allowed to make these decisions in the first place ?

And should they remain in that position?

Clearly not.

Again you are confusing the concept of posting your frustration and outright name calling and personal attacks. We do allow Venting. This post is still here, even though the rules do not allow questioning policy on the open forums. There are several posts on the forums questioning changes to the game. But we are not going to allow you or anyone to enter the forums and attempt to post personal attacks against any individual be it a Funcom employee or another player. Civility is something that should exist in the current world.

Being vocal doesn't require you to post nonconstructive posts against the developers and making personal attacks against them. There are many vocal people on the forums who are posting their disapproval of the changes, they are not however attacking others.

[Caloss2]

Again you are confusing the concept of posting your frustration and outright name calling and personal attacks. We do allow Venting. This post is still here, even though the rules do not allow questioning policy on the open forums. There are several posts on the forums questioning changes to the game. But we are not going to allow you or anyone to enter the forums and attempt to post personal attacks against any individual be it a Funcom employee or another player. Civility is something that should exist in the current world.

Being vocal doesn't require you to post nonconstructive posts against the developers and making personal attacks against them. There are many vocal people on the forums who are posting their disapproval of the changes, they are not however attacking others.

You are simply deflecting my points with rhetoric, I did not anywhere in that post say that people should be allowed to troll, though that does slip by a great deal, What I am saying simply is your customers have rights to say "this is wrong" and also say "the person that has made this decision has made an incorrect judgement and should not be in a position to do so" That is not uncivil, that is not flaming someone that is a paying customer saying I am not happy and this is why, if it where attempted to remove that right to free speech then the fall out from it would be catastrophic and spill out onto far more visible mediums FC has no control over what so ever.

[metaluv]

Right to free speech on a forum, lol this ain't no democracy.
the only constitution here is forum policy.

[Bekrowe]

Except again and again I have said you can post your disapproval. The fact that you think you should be able to call the Game Director any name in the book to backup your statement that they shouldn't be in this position doesn't make it not an attack on the person. I don't see how I can say this any differently that will make it more understandable. If you post and are not attacking any person we aren't going to remove the thread, if you do attack someone there is a good chance we are going to either edit or remove the thread.

And your posts are still on the forum including your An Open Letter to the Dev Team. But you want to claim that somehow we are hindering your ability to post on the forums.

[Caloss2]

Right to free speech on a forum, lol this ain't no democracy.

No democracy exists anywhere on earth, we know this. However my point is potential customers still have a degree of scope to find out about a given game, and mostly they will do so on an external/social site that FC has no control over.

[Caloss2]

Except again and again I have said you can post your disapproval. The fact that you think you should be able to call the Game Director any name in the book to backup your statement that they shouldn't be in this position doesn't make it not an attack on the person. I don't see how I can say this any differently that will make it more understandable. If you post and are not attacking any person we aren't going to remove the thread, if you do attack someone there is a good chance we are going to either edit or remove the thread.

And your posts are still on the forum including your An Open Letter to the Dev Team. But you want to claim that somehow we are hindering your ability to post on the forums.

I have never called the game director a name, I have used adjectives, to better describe their actions and behaviour, I am not suggesting that you are attempting to hider but that the tone of your post suggests that you will, and I am suggestiong to do so would not be justified or wise.

[ultion]

There are other, better(?), places to discuss AO. Try the unofficial anarchy online facebook page. It is full of unmitigated trolling, insults, and other assorted pleasantries. You will even see *real* (yet confused) anarchists show up from time to time raising their virtual black flag!

[Anarrina]

You are simply deflecting my points with rhetoric, I did not anywhere in that post say that people should be allowed to troll, though that does slip by a great deal, What I am saying simply is your customers have rights to say "this is wrong" and also say "the person that has made this decision has made an incorrect judgement and should not be in a position to do so" That is not uncivil, that is not flaming someone that is a paying customer saying I am not happy and this is why, if it where attempted to remove that right to free speech then the fall out from it would be catastrophic and spill out onto far more visible mediums FC has no control over what so ever.

If they are just saying, "This is wrong." Or "I believe this is the wrong direction." then there is no problem.

To single her out a bit, Traderjill frequently, vocally, and obviously points out her disappointment, disapproval, and dissatisfaction on a regular basis. I can't think off hand of a post of of hers that I gave edited or deleted on its own merits (pretty sure she's had some go if the entire conversation is verboten). She is clear, concise, and civil.

Calling the developers lazy, useless, vindictive, inept, etc etc etc gets your post removed and/or edited. I can assure you the developers do not read the moderated posts unless Bekrowe and I specifically ask them to, and as they don't get involved in matters of moderation (that's sezmra's job) I can probably count on one hand the Times we've requested they do that. They do read public posts and answer them, level of frequency notwithstanding.

Two arguments I've heard over and over in my time on the forums:

A. The devs don't listen unless I'm mean and rude.

B. If I am really mad about something the rules shouldn't apply to me.

I addressed A above, if you are mean and rude the chances of them seeing what you post just dropped dramatically.

Bekrowe addressed B. No matter how we feel personally about a subject, we don't get to rewrite the forum rules every time someone is upset.

So yes, we get what you are saying (both A and B). We're asking you to listen to what we are saying and understand it. You gave every right to complain, you have no right o be abusive.

And Caloss were not singling you out specifically, that is a general you. Plenty of people are using abusive language.

[ByLogic]

Did you understand my post that you removed ? it will save allot of time. You can not explain, they will not listen, even it is plain to see.

[Anarrina]

Such comments are unneeded and also extremely uncivil

[ByLogic]

Such comments are unneeded and also extremely uncivil

what comments? I didn't comment any thing. I Came with a general statement.

[Bekrowe]

The statement is way too broad and making assumptions without facts. Its what we have been saying isn't ok in the first place.