Remove "Profession Only" requirements from Weapons

[cal201]

If FC removes profession specific weapons... i would be kissing my AO days goodbye. Weapons are one of the only things some professions have, and to have a profession like engy using a div9 plasmaprojector which is soldier only, would just make the soldier profession a bit more useless... thats just one example.

Most professions are watered down enough as it is, and by going with the flow and removing profession reqs, well, why would u want to take something from a profession that they are almost depending on to keep them useful in a group. I myself being a soldier, have no other purpose in a group than shooting stuff and buffing ppl with reflect sheilds here and there. Take away my privelage to have something to cause damage that other people cant? screw that noise... i dont see too many people asking FC to remove profession reqs from nano programs (not including hackable programs), so why would u ask FC to take away something from a profession that is given to them FOR THEM!!!!

[Whitesand]

Originally posted by Thyrra

i say raise the available qls on items. if an nt can get into a q3000 novaflow, great for him. if the soldier next to him can get into a q5000 novaflow, the soldier won't mind the nt's gun. if the nt wants to use a q4500 novaflow, then he should be able to spend ip into doing so; the downside would be that other nts would be using q5000 nukes while the gun nt would be using much lower.

yes, this means no ip glut at the end so that everyone can max every useful skill and have ip left over to max thrown weapons in case fc puts some in the game some day.

When we reach lvl190+ we all have to much IPs to spare and the Gap between a dark blue and a green skill is only 180 Points. Thats not enough! A NT still can use a ql200 Nova if he wants! Or a Flashpoint. Well right he cannot use a ql200 Flashpoint but how many Soldiers can use them? Removing the "Profession Only" requitement on weapons will be a worse thing, you only need the skills to equip the weapons. So get a wrangle put your imps in and equip your beam! After that switch back.

We should talk to OE in this fact. If we are 1 Point less in our nano skills we cannot cast the spell but we are allowed to use armor weapons etc. if we are lack much more skills! If they remove the profession only requirements on weapons then they should fix the OE thing too. You should be unable to wear your armor or weapon if you don't have the skills! Not going down to 75% or something like this! Going down to 0%!!!! if you miss only 1 Point of the needed skills!

And debuffs should work some other way. They shouldn't decrease the skils, they should decrease the offense modifier! So after a trader debuffs you - you still have a -295 attack rate but you still have your full weapons skills etc. Well right this will not work with nano skills - but what does work in this game?

[Beartwo]

Drabin....

I have a few years in service myself and have served overseas with different units. Since 1996 I have been a reservist. In total I have been part of the army in som amnner or fashion for 20 years!

I am pretty confident in my abilities with a G3-A2 automatic rifle and I am qualified as a sniper on our cal. 308 based bolt action rifles. I practice 2-3 times a month (even when I am not on active duty). I know those two weapons extremely well.

Part of our duty overseas was long range patrols, and we had to undergo training in the warring parties weapons in case our own were destroyed.

I can tell you right this minute that I suck with a PK PKS machinegun (Russian) or a Galil rifle (Israeli). why?

Because I am not as familiar with these weapons as I am with the ones I use normally!
I could never pick up a Dragunov sniper rifle and do the same kind of hits I do with our NM-149, nor could I use the Ak74 as well as a russian soldier. But both of us would be far better than a martial artist at using guns.... and the martial artist would be worse than us with a rifle.

Leave the profession specific weaponry in there, its an easy way of expressing what I described just now

[Naraya]

I'm an NT using a QL 200 X-3. I'm sure an Agent at my level has better rifle skill than I do, yet if he's using an X-3, chances are we're using the same rifle. Why is that? And why aren't there weapons (other than that pitiful DNA-Locked Blaster Rifle) above QL 200 in the game? Most of us manage to equip QL 200 weapons between TL 4 and 5 nowadays (used to be earlier until OE was implemented and the imp step "feature" removed). I think it's time to open up the top end a little more. People are getting bored having to go through so many levels using the exact same weapon the whole time. Make weapons go up to QL 300 and remove profession restrictions on weapons and armor for that matter also.

And while you're doing all this, make most of the QL 200-300 stuff tradeskill only.....you did good things with carbonum and bronto armor. More of that kind of stuff would be very welcomed by the community...especially by the traders & engies.

[secondkenlon]

Nah, let people find 200+ weapons/armor, but implement tradeskill processes for the most popular weapons (including boss loot weapons) from QLs 1-300.


Also, include ways to modify 200+ weapons in small ways through tradeskills. Want a Nova that fires Rad damage? Get an engie/trader. Want a black nova that fires purple energy blobs? Get an engie/trader.

[Blackwing]

long answer:

if you had balanced classes then you might think about it.

but designing a balanced game is not that easy.

i am not a big fan of basing everything in this game on pvp (and please spare me the war going on argument).

pvp is something people do as diversion because the gameplay itself and the level threadmill bores them mostly.

this explains why i think it an extremely bad idea to open the gates. the professions specific weapons in game right now are nice but not über - you can match them pretty well with the general items available to all.

that is exactly it - nice to set the class apart.
so the class is interesting to play.

some classes offer alot of combat options.

some do not.

once you try several why should you continue to play a class with limited combat / nano options when you can have all the items and equipment of the restricted ones AND cool class abilities?

when you want class restrictions to go from class specific weapons show me what skill to train as a non agent so i can use the best of your classes nanos.

you do not think that is fair? i do.

[Drabin]

Originally posted by Beartwo
Drabin....

I have a few years in service myself and have served overseas with different units. Since 1996 I have been a reservist. In total I have been part of the army in som amnner or fashion for 20 years!

I am pretty confident in my abilities with a G3-A2 automatic rifle and I am qualified as a sniper on our cal. 308 based bolt action rifles. I practice 2-3 times a month (even when I am not on active duty). I know those two weapons extremely well.

Part of our duty overseas was long range patrols, and we had to undergo training in the warring parties weapons in case our own were destroyed.

I can tell you right this minute that I suck with a PK PKS machinegun (Russian) or a Galil rifle (Israeli). why?

Because I am not as familiar with these weapons as I am with the ones I use normally!
I could never pick up a Dragunov sniper rifle and do the same kind of hits I do with our NM-149, nor could I use the Ak74 as well as a russian soldier. But both of us would be far better than a martial artist at using guns.... and the martial artist would be worse than us with a rifle.

Leave the profession specific weaponry in there, its an easy way of expressing what I described just now

Point noted. Alas, you are speaking of availability though not use. If the weapons were readily available, you had access to them, could buy them, use them as you chose too and you felt they were better than the weapons you had, would you buy them? Would you use them?

Sorry, the example is noted but it's not all that reasonable. Give me one solid week with any of the weapons you just named and I would be proficient with them.

[Beartwo]

I must disagree with you there... a week or two might make you proficient in assembling and disassembling it, but not very good in using it compared to someone who has been using it and training with it for years.

I cant hit much with the M16 even if I had it readily available compared to the G3.... caliber, muzzle velocity, bullet grain....weight of the weapon, feel of the weapon... everything is different which leads to different ways of using it.

The G-3 (308) will shoot through most bushes and not be affected much by wind, whereas the M-16 (223) will be all over... The M-16 is far lighter and has a much flatter bullet trajectory due to speed ... again...different ways of using the weapon....swithching in mid fight is a major pain...heh

[____________Strycker]

Sure, profession-specific items make no sense. Like I can't figure out how to fire a gun unless I have a soldier union card.

-- The obvious fix here is to remove profession requirements on weapons and armor, though as has been said, sometimes there may be some basic ability requirements or physique requirements as in the case of the ludicrous support beam.


Sure, weapon QLs make even less sense. As Drabin said, the best weapon of a type is also the easiest to use. As a OT employee, it makes no sense for them to equip me with a cheap rusty weapon when they could give me top of the line. Everyone knows weapons are less costly than training for weapon users, at least in an advanced society like OT's.

-- The obvious fix here is to eliminate weapon and armor QLs, and to make weapon damage more based on skill than on the weapon. Of course the entire game system has to be redone from scratch, but the current system sucks anyway.


But let's go a step further. The professions themselves make no sense, realistically either.

Why not just eliminate them? Then raise the cost of all skills somewhat, so you can't specialize in everything the way level 200s do who run out of things to spend IP on. Add a couple more nano skills so that even nano specialists find it hard to cast every nano in the game, and differentiate the various nano lines further with those additional skill requirements.

Then everyone can specialize to their heart's content without limit to the possibilities. If it turns out that some particular combination of nanos and weapon skills is optimal, what the heck, that's the way it is -- or else as time goes on, the designers can just add new weapons and nanos which are even better using other skills.

This general approach to the game makes people happy who like to explore different skill combinations and for those who just want to be a soldier or whatever, they can choose the "obvious" skill combinations and be happy that way.

Of course, as has been pointed out, this approach to game design requires a lot more work from the designers and developers than the current system. Too damn bad.



[Meanwhile, I am in the AC 2 beta, which has even firmer and more severe profession, race, and skill limitations than AO. What do you know, it doesn't look like that bad a game, either....]

[Drabin]

Originally posted by Beartwo
I must disagree with you there... a week or two might make you proficient in assembling and disassembling it, but not very good in using it compared to someone who has been using it and training with it for years.

I cant hit much with the M16 even if I had it readily available compared to the G3.... caliber, muzzle velocity, bullet grain....weight of the weapon, feel of the weapon... everything is different which leads to different ways of using it.

The G-3 (308) will shoot through most bushes and not be affected much by wind, whereas the M-16 (223) will be all over... The M-16 is far lighter and has a much flatter bullet trajectory due to speed ... again...different ways of using the weapon....swithching in mid fight is a major pain...heh

Heh Beartwo I like you. The problem is that in AO they say you cannot "HOLD" the weapon unless you have the necessary skill to use it. I completely agree with you on whether or not you would be accurate with it or not (that would be based upon skill) but to say that someone who say uses 12 different assault weapons throughout the year suddenly buys a new model assault rifle and can't fire it, figure it out, or make it work for him or her in a short amount of time is saying that person lacks reasoning, experience, and the ability to adapt.

AO says you can't hold that weapon - can't fire that weapon - can't use that weapon - can't even throw, swing, wield that weapon unless you are a set profession. This is not the way to go. Put a better functionality with skillsets, open-end the weapon system for everyone, and make things better.

If soldiers were issued skin-inserted ID tags and weapons requiring a special DNA code to activate and fire (a.k.a the Lawgiver in Judge Dredd) that would be one way to add profession specific weapons. However, no such pattern exists for the soldier pistols, the adventurer pistols, or the adventurer swords.

[______________Serena]

These are the things I believe are the worst ideas any dev came up with and should face a firing squad for...

NO DROP : Excuse me but nothing is not dropable in reality and it doesnt balance anything to put it into a game. Sorry it doesn't stop camping or even slow it down EQ is proof of this... People just rotate their guild members..

Not to mention the fact that with the huge influx lately of no drop things are being left constantly behind that could be sold to vendors except... VENDORS WONT BUY NO DROP!!!

Not to mention that NO DROP makes a trashed economy even worse by making the few tradable desireables the only thing to spend that money on.

Face reality with time no matter what you do an economy is going to go in the hamper due to the slow build up of cash in the playerbase lets not exasperate it by putting in large amounts of items that can't even be sold, keep the money circulating..

No one wants the garbage that you can sell anymore they want the stuff you can't sell... = camping to insane levels... *note* camping sucks people don't want it GET RID OF IT! The way to free up items is to make them NOT NO DROP and Get rid of all but a few unique mob drops make items RANDOM across all mobs of the appropriate level, *this* is the only solution to camping that will EVER work, you started to institute this early on then quit, why??? was it to hard to do?? don't make me laugh...

Unique : Um... sorry it doesn't stop camping or even slow it down EQ is proof of this... again People just rotate their guild members..

Self only : Anyone else think this is completely ludicris in a MULTIPLAYER inter dependend co-operation game??? There are a very FEW buffs that this makes sense in *VERY FEW*

Things that do NOT belong in a SKILLS based game...


Leven restrictions : Uh whats the point of having skills if you put level restrictions on items???

Insane skill reqs : Again whats the point of insane skill reqs when they are ALSO coupled with SELF ONLY!!!!

Profession restrictions : These I could live with if the things they are creating made sense and were actually useable when they should be.

This game had an awsome *VISION™* when it launched.. Unfortunately they fell back on nerfing to infinity and turning this into a bug infested sci fi soon to be fantasy version of EQ but only picking up the worst aspects of EQ (NO DROP EVERYTHING and camping to extreme for anything good) and its sad to have seen this game sink to this point.

What happend Gaute.. did you sell out or just lose track of what this game was meant to be? By your own words this game is a farce compared to what you sung to us in beta and the early days about being different and not making the mistakes of the other games yet you are making the exact same ones in spades..

[HexTar]

I think they should make all special items dropping randomly all across the board. This should be done to stop camping. And it wouldn't hurt to light up the day for all the players that enjoy soloing.
Not everybody wants to group you know.....



/me not expecting any offical reply any more.............

Sad isn't it?

[________________Enri]

When one is designing a game, it is very necessary to draw a line between realism and gameplay -- There is a reason Ace Combat sells tons of copies and Jane's (most realistic simulators ever) was shut down.

First of all, the game is science fiction. If you are going to nitpick skill requirements that would clearly imbalance the game, you might as well start *****ing about how the game doesn't follow (a) The Law of Conservation of Mass (b) The Second Law of Thermodynamics (c) Newton's Third Law, and so forth.

Its called balance. If you bought AO to become more powerful than anyone else in the game world, you bought the wrong game. Its an MMORPG (GAME, but I'll rant about that on another post) and everyone deserves a fair shot.

Why, you may ask, should every player deserve a shot? I'll tell you: fun. When people stop inviting your class into groups because they think are gimped, you are missing out on the game and *need* a fix. Sure, people won't invite you if you're an idiot, but FC can't nerf that.

Also, it doesn't make sense that you need lower skill to use a rusty gun, but it makes less sense that a 1-2 damage gun would become available at level 200 and a 1-500 damage gun would be available at level 1.

Balancing a game takes some recognition of roles and more importantly, rigor. Please don't try to take realism into account in these games. Go walk into a 7-11, say "Die, corporate scum!", "alpha strike" them all with a Mac-10, and moonwalk out the door. Then we'll talk about "realism" in AO.

[____________religion]

Balance?

Balance is something designed from the ground up.
Balance != Equality.

Having No Drop Items, Level restrictions, Profession Requirements (unless they _really_ make sense), etc, etc do not add any balance to a game.

I totally agree that funcom should just drop such inane restrictions. This is a skill based game. Make things rely on skill.

I would prefer that AO move towards being closer to UO than to EQ (if it has to move towards anything). In UO, weapons didnt have huge differences in damage. If you met physical requirements (strength, dex, etc) to be able to use a weapon, then you could use it.
However, a normal longsword is laughable in the hands of a newbie, but deadly in the hands of a grandmaster swordsman.

I was truly hoping that AO would be more like that.

I have a long wishlist of things for this game that would really make it fun. Sure, it would take a long time to get through it all, but actually doing one thing each month would give us a great game inside of a year. A few items are chopped out for AO (as they would require core changes to game machanics...like going pure skillbased where you raise skills by using them), but here are what remains:

1) Scrap the current weapons and build a new weapons list from the ground up:
-make a baseline weapon for each type of weapon skill.
-Make sure that all baseline weapons make sense and are at least decent.
-Make at least 10 variant of each base weapon (trading speed/dmg/dmgtype/crits/etc so that they all have pros and cons to use)
-Make all weapons buildable via tradeskills
-Make all weapons modifiable via tradeskills
-Let people break down weapons into component pieces for building new weapons.
-Determine damage scaling per quality level for the baseline and modify all related weapons accordingly with quality level
-Instead of having unique/camped weapons with insane bonuses, make loot dropped weapons have a random chance of having a quality level equivalent bonus (skill bonus, armor bonus, nano program, etc)

2) Fix Professions:
-Go over each profession and decide what exactly they are supposed to excell at.
-Make sure that their nanos make sense for them.
-Fix/replace any broken Nano programs
-For any PvP game breaking nanos, give them diffent effects in pvp (or add various ways to counter the effects)
-Make sure all professions have at least 3 good weapon options
-Make sure that each profession has advantages/disadvantages depending on circumstance

3) Fix Atrox/Nanomage
-Make sure that they have superior health/nano as they are supposed to. The trade off should be just that. Lose one thing, get something else. The tiny differences at the high end are way too small

4) Bring back item weights
-You will see a lot more variation in weapons use/armor/etc if you do this. I remember on release that my Atrox could carry a good amount of items...while my nanomage could barely pack around needed basics without a move penalty

5) Fix weapon specials
-Make fingshot/burst/etc use the same hit rolls as normal attacks. Perhaps make burst/fullauto/etc do scaled down damage instead of missing if the hit roll is not too far below what was needed (i.e. hitting with fewer bullets)

6) Fix overequipping
-We all know what the problems with overequipping are...fix them and give those professions some nice, new, usefull nanos in way of compensation
-Lower high end buffs.
-Reduce effect of plunder/etc
-Dont forget to give them some very nice, non-gamebreaking skills in way of compensation
-Remove ability to increase comp lit via implants (kill that buff/impant complit/upgrade belt/rince repeat stuff)

7) Fix broken skills
-Either remove them and give back ip or add content to make them worth having.

8) Fix evades/inits
-Of course, this would require a total re-evaluation of all mobs in the game...but would be worth it in the long run.

9) Down with uber, up with fun.
-Add fun content rather than just upgraded versions of everything. Things like new, tinkerable vehicles with hardpoints, ncu slots, etc, More types of quests, the land ownership you have in the works, underwater areas (make use of that swim skill), etc

I have quite a few things on my (never gonna happen, but it would really make things better) list, but even these few would bring vast improvements.

[Whiteboog]

Drabin dude, its a GAME, if it was completly true to real life then what would be the point of even playing, and how do you know anything about any of these weapons, maybe as players level up their fingers shrink and the higher level guns have tiny triggers or something silly. If you want true to life fighting then join some kind of fighting force ..oh , you did... so if you like realism soo much go back or buy a gun and go shoot some birds or something.

But seriously and without all the cheeckyness i disagree with your point that the game should be true to life and infact logical at all whatsoever, as the game stand now there is quite a difference between the proffesions but if anyone could use anything then the game would just become silly because there would be no variety in proffesions. As for your other complaints if you read the storyline and things very carefully you can see a lot of your questions have been answered or at least partially answered so you can work the rest out yourself.

Oh and marksmanship is apparently a skill you are born with, a good marksman only has to practice his skill but a bad one will have to spend ages learning, from what you said it sounds like you were born with it, thats just a theory though, cant remeber whos.

[HexTar]

Originally posted by religion
Balance?

Balance is something designed from the ground up.
Balance != Equality.

Having No Drop Items, Level restrictions, Profession Requirements (unless they _really_ make sense), etc, etc do not add any balance to a game.

I totally agree that funcom should just drop such inane restrictions. This is a skill based game. Make things rely on skill.

I would prefer that AO move towards being closer to UO than to EQ (if it has to move towards anything). In UO, weapons didnt have huge differences in damage. If you met physical requirements (strength, dex, etc) to be able to use a weapon, then you could use it.
However, a normal longsword is laughable in the hands of a newbie, but deadly in the hands of a grandmaster swordsman.

I was truly hoping that AO would be more like that.

I have a long wishlist of things for this game that would really make it fun. Sure, it would take a long time to get through it all, but actually doing one thing each month would give us a great game inside of a year. A few items are chopped out for AO (as they would require core changes to game machanics...like going pure skillbased where you raise skills by using them), but here are what remains:

1) Scrap the current weapons and build a new weapons list from the ground up:
-make a baseline weapon for each type of weapon skill.
-Make sure that all baseline weapons make sense and are at least decent.
-Make at least 10 variant of each base weapon (trading speed/dmg/dmgtype/crits/etc so that they all have pros and cons to use)
-Make all weapons buildable via tradeskills
-Make all weapons modifiable via tradeskills
-Let people break down weapons into component pieces for building new weapons.
-Determine damage scaling per quality level for the baseline and modify all related weapons accordingly with quality level
-Instead of having unique/camped weapons with insane bonuses, make loot dropped weapons have a random chance of having a quality level equivalent bonus (skill bonus, armor bonus, nano program, etc)

2) Fix Professions:
-Go over each profession and decide what exactly they are supposed to excell at.
-Make sure that their nanos make sense for them.
-Fix/replace any broken Nano programs
-For any PvP game breaking nanos, give them diffent effects in pvp (or add various ways to counter the effects)
-Make sure all professions have at least 3 good weapon options
-Make sure that each profession has advantages/disadvantages depending on circumstance

3) Fix Atrox/Nanomage
-Make sure that they have superior health/nano as they are supposed to. The trade off should be just that. Lose one thing, get something else. The tiny differences at the high end are way too small

4) Bring back item weights
-You will see a lot more variation in weapons use/armor/etc if you do this. I remember on release that my Atrox could carry a good amount of items...while my nanomage could barely pack around needed basics without a move penalty

5) Fix weapon specials
-Make fingshot/burst/etc use the same hit rolls as normal attacks. Perhaps make burst/fullauto/etc do scaled down damage instead of missing if the hit roll is not too far below what was needed (i.e. hitting with fewer bullets)

6) Fix overequipping
-We all know what the problems with overequipping are...fix them and give those professions some nice, new, usefull nanos in way of compensation
-Lower high end buffs.
-Reduce effect of plunder/etc
-Dont forget to give them some very nice, non-gamebreaking skills in way of compensation
-Remove ability to increase comp lit via implants (kill that buff/impant complit/upgrade belt/rince repeat stuff)

7) Fix broken skills
-Either remove them and give back ip or add content to make them worth having.

8) Fix evades/inits
-Of course, this would require a total re-evaluation of all mobs in the game...but would be worth it in the long run.

9) Down with uber, up with fun.
-Add fun content rather than just upgraded versions of everything. Things like new, tinkerable vehicles with hardpoints, ncu slots, etc, More types of quests, the land ownership you have in the works, underwater areas (make use of that swim skill), etc

I have quite a few things on my (never gonna happen, but it would really make things better) list, but even these few would bring vast improvements.

All good suggestions but this i think wouldn't be possible without making the game all over again. If we are lucky some of these things will come in the Shadowlands expansion. Hopefully they have gained some experience in the past year so we might expect fewer bugs this time.

/me crosses fingers

Still waiting for any kind of feedback from our beloved FC on the supposed nt patch, and eventhough you've thrown a few pieces to the 185+ players. there aren't any improvements between 1-184, but keep it coming though.

[______________Rogoff]

Man, Drabin and Bio's comments are like a breath of fresh air. I tell you what...I came to AO looking for a skill-based game, and I haven't really seen one yet.

I played a Druid, Bard and Cleric in EQ. EQ Classes are like chess pieces, interchangeable, with a specific and well-defined set of powers.

It seems Funcom wants Professions to be the same way. See, I am a Advy, I weild Advy weapons, I wear Advy gear, when you need Advy things done you call me. You may call me a Rook if you like.

Unfortunately, with the current crop of gear a true skill-orientation wouldn't work. In AO, there is really only one or two rifles. One or two assault rifles. One or two swords. The rest are window dressing. People would quickly gravitate to the most powerful weapons (since that's obvious), and we would all be even more clones than currently.

It's a breath of fresh air, but it really can't happen, since the algorithm used to design weapons is indistiguishable from a random number generator. There are too few optimal choices, and therefore no real variety.

If we had a real skill-based game, weapons and gear would be designed around the concept of an "efficiency envelope", where the total of: specials, buffs, damage-over-time, rarity, Init costs, IP requirements, MW reqs, and rare dmg types was close to a constant for all weapons.

No perfectly optimal X-3's or Div9s. No ridiculous Lead Sprayers. Situational weapons, arguments over which was best for what playstyle. People wielding a Sol Fire Exec with a Gamma in the offhand, wondering if they should switch to a Katana...

The way current MMOGS are designed, is like if Magic the Gathering said "Joe gets a Red deck (Soldier), Sam gets a White deck (Doc), and you get a Black deck (NT), now have fun!". The BEST decks were always some combination of colors, and were almost a signature of your opponent's personality.

I would pay a HEFTY monthly fee for a game were people didn't know all my capabilities once they asked me what "class" I was.

[Whiteboog]

A lot of the other weapons are actually used, especially in high level pvp where players can easily switch between weapons so the advantages of them can be used. In pvm people generall tend to stick to the same weapons though because they are the best all round weapons, but in pvp sometimes specialising is much better than having a nice all round weapon.

[mrpres1dent]

I'm only going to say one thing here and then I'm going to leave because I know I'm going to get flamed since this doesn't seem like a discussion thread but more of a "Sign here if you want to use all those neato profession-only weapons" thread.

As far as the Adventurer patch goes, there were a lot of bones thrown to us in the way of new nano lines.. 8 new ones I believe. 60% of them were things we never asked for and turned out to be ultimately useless in the way of fixing Adventurers to be a usable and un-"gimped" class, with the exception of the two nanos executable when in Sabretooth form (30-second damage buff w/ 3 minute locok and insta-heal with 30 second lock).

Looking beyond the 2 lines of nanos that turned out to be extremely helpful, sans the long overdue buff lines, the one and only thing that honestly fixed the Adventurer class was the introduction of Adventurer-only weapons, which was something I pushed for from the beginning in November of last year.

The primary problem with the Adventurer profession before any attention in 14.2/14.4 was that the Adventurer faced a tough decision when it came to weapons. Medicore skill costs in most weapons, yet no buffs for any, and the green skills that seemed to be what we were good at pointed to Pistols and 1HE. Most Adventurers go for the green skills when building their character, unaware that thier choices in the Pistol category have been nerfed quite a few patches back as a quick fix (along with other things) to stop casting classes from doing more damage than the hybrid classes using them (i.e. Crat using nukes + 2xFreedom Arms), or that the 1HE category suffers from a lack of usable weapons. If the Adventurer went the 1HE route, they had to increase 3 dark blue skills (Brawl, Dimach, Heavy Weapons), 1 Aqua (Multi-Melee), and 1 Green (1HE). This meant most Adventurers that used 1HE had to give up either Heals or Morphs to continue putting IP into their weapons. IF the Adventurer went the Pistol route, well.. most of them stopped putting IP into pistols until they could afford to switch to AR or Shotgun, or melee.

Now that you know the plight of the Adventurer, the only thing Funcom really did to completely and totally fix the profession was give us a lot of weapons that focused on our green skills, as most other classes have, and which we lacked. Let's focus on Pistols here. Almost everybody has a cheap Pistol skill. If any or all of the pistols intended for Adventurers were introduced as guns that anybody could use, there would still be no reason to play an Adventurer. Go make a Doc and put two River Seasons XP's on.

Attack rating in this game means squat. It means you hit for a few points less damage and you crit for a little less. The fact that you will have a low attack rating with a weapon is not enough to discourage somebody _AT ALL_ from using a weapon. Therefore, every NT would be using a pair of River Seasons XP's, or BBI Faithfuls, or Ithaca Ki-12's. Honestly folks, those are the only three Pistol lines that Funcom introduced for Adventurers which actually do damage on par with the weapons other classes can wield.

This game does not make for an environment where it is okay for one class to do far less or no damage than another class (see: Healing-only Docs). Everybody at some point has to pick up a weapon and do as much damage as the Soldier or Enforcer in their team, because at high level there is no such thing as teamwork.. it is just Veterans over and over again.

I have heard Agents say that the X-3 should have been Agent only, and I agree with them. The most powerful rifle in the game, and it isn't restricted to the rifle class. I think that's ridiculous, and it has created a terrible imbalance by having every profession who has one do the damage intended for Agents to do, especially since Agent rifle buffs aren't self only, which means most people can actually get a Rifle skill within 100-200 points of an Agent.

I just don't see what the big deal with having items restricted to professions is. This game clearly does not demonstrate ideas and methods from real life, so stop trying to compare things to real life.

I suppose if a Pistol was introduced that had a 50% innate ability to nuke for 2000-3000 on a MOB and was NT-only, you would be flaming me if I said I wanted to use it and that Funcom should remove the profession requirements on everything...

You take away profession-only items and weapons, and Adventurers are going to be bottom of the list again. They are what saved the profession.

If you can provide me with a good reason why you should be able to use weapons and items introduced into the game with a certain profession in mind, and how I am supposed to feel when I see a Soldier using 2 River Seasons XP's, and then Funcom nerfing them because everybody is running around with them, maybe you can sway my thinking a little.

[Bionitrous]

The problem with your argument Flow is you call the Agent 'the Rifle class'. That is what this thread is about. We don't begrudge the Adventurers their help they got. It was just done the wrong way. Or more accurately, the only way FunCom was able to do it considering they refuse to address the relative worthlessness of Attack Rating as compared to item Quality Level.

The Qlvl system is teh devil. The guy who implemented the Qlvl system ought to be taken out back of FunCom's offices and shot.