Profession Review: Pets

[Ebag333]

So it's been awfully quiet in here lately (this is the point where someone looks at me significantly and says "Too quiet").

As you all (should) know, FC is in the process of doing a profession review. Now MP's were not mentioned as being the first wave of "fixes" in Friday with Means. I'm actually okay with that. Let other profs go first and be the guinea pigs, I'd rather the good folks over at FC have a bit more time to consider what we really need.

Now, while MP's personally have received a huge overhaul since LE, there's one glaring aspect that has been overlooked, and that is our pets. In order to gather more information on how you would like to see that gap filled, I thought a thread would be in order to try and get more information.

Couple of ground rules:

1. Make clear and concise points. "I think that a new attack pet needs at least 80k HP, and here's why....." is useful. "Gief HPz." is not.
2. Be realistic. We'd all like a healpet that fires off a CH every 2 seconds. But that isn't going to happen, and ranting about it won't help our cause any.
3. Keep it related to pets only. SS, Tigress, evades, AAD, African or European Swallow, or deubuffs should not have any bearing on the conversation here.
4. Don't compare other profs. We're not Engies. We're not Crats. We're not Soldies. We're MP's, and any points you make should be able to stand on their own two feet without comparing other profs or saying "but-but-but so-and-so got it!"
5. Specify PvP or PvM. These are two very different aspects, and the approach towards one is rather different than the other.
6. Keep it clean and friendly.

[Camar]

I'll give a try (all personal opinion ofc . That's why it's mainly aimed at endgame)

PvM:
Biggest beef: Morti doesn't heal enough

Through the natural progression, all profs' abilities improve (HP, healing power, defense, offense). So ofc the mobs have to increase in power as well, otherwise it would be very boring.
But: Our main healing, namely Morti, didn't increase, or at least didn't for all MPs except 2hb.
1400ish perk every 40 secs is nice, but doesn't help much when you get hit more than once.
Morti heal too slow, and not enough.
An example of this would be Dustbrigade Commandos. They hit consistantly for 2k+ even fully damagedebuffed and have a high enough AR to hit often enough. Morti just doesn't cut it here.

Solution: Lower casting time, slight increase of amount. Maybe a new heal pet at around 215?

Secondary problems:

A slight increase in HP and damage for Attackpets would be appreciated. Our main damage should come from our pet, and it usually doesn't. When only our personal damage increases due to better nukes/weapons/perks, that is just a portion of the total damage, so pets have to increase as well from time to time (general problem for Crats/Engies aas well ofc).

Mezz pet is still too squishy and doesn't really mezz. Sometimes you just want to calm a mob and move on, this is not possible, since when you run out of range, the mob will usually follow you when Mezz pet comes running back. Maybe a oneshot ability (areacalm which sacrifices the pet?)

Non-endgame: The gap between being able to cast the last RK pet and Biazu is far to big, and it grows with every improvement. Either decrease the level locks or (this I like better) remove the levellocks from urn pets (gotta be 125 anyway to enter IS).

PvP:

Biggest beef: Pets are too easily disabled and don't do much.
This breaks down to 3 main problems imho:

First problem: Our pets have no (working..) NR whatsoever. We don't have removers for the really annoying debuffs out there. The one we have, against roots/snares, we usually cannot cast, because we are in recharge from casting other nanos to prevent us from dying (SS, NSD, CoC, debuffs etc).

I recently fought against an NR2 agent FPing Doc. Even with -740 to nanoskills, he had no problems to land UBT on all pets first try. This should not be remotely possible, especially because we have no removers, even after combat.

Solution: Auras that give a % immunity against a set of crippling debuffs (UBT, Drains,...). A non-nano way to remove debuffs, so it doesn't clash with recharge. So either a perk (maybe added to SS line? Soothe the spirit of your pet by removing the annoying debuff )) or an item. I know the upgraded HH@B does something like that, but once every 5 mins is too slow. A lot of the debuffs are spammable, so this doesn't really help. The only working thing imho would be a combination of resistance and removers (maybe short term in-combat, totally removed outside combat).

Second problem: Since we have only one attack pet, it is especially important that it actually reaches the target and does damage. Our pet is too easily kited, and has too low AR to compete with the rising Def of all toons. We are the only pet prof that doesn't have crowd control (yeah I know, I shouldn't compare). Engies have a snare aura, crats have, well, lots. We have root grafts and one perk root to help the attack pet reach its target, but that's it. In combination with the (much improved, but still not good enough) pet pathing, this creates huge problems, especially in an environment with lots of corners and steps like BS.

Solution: add a snare effect to cold nukes (was suggested before) or give attack pet a snaring/rooting proc, or improve mezz pet (see below)

Third problem: Mezz pet is practically irrelevant in PvP

Mezz pet doesn't do anything, except maybe confuse newbies because it's named like me

Solution: add an effect that only works on Players. This could be anything, snare, root, damage debuff, nano drain, ... Maybe even have several possible Mezz pets with different abilities.

Secondary problems:

Again, damage and AR could be increased a bit, as well as healing power.

[scenenheard]

very well put I think, Camar.

I'd like to also add:

Reduction in cast time for SL pets. I know I've brought this up before, and it's been mentioned that its unlikely that our current SL pets would get a reduction. The reason I bring it up again, is because I feel that quicker pet casting would benefit both PvP and PvM.

[Corily]

Completely agree with Camar.

I would go for a lower lvl requirement for SL pets (including Mortificant and Rihwen), even completely removing them whilst adjusting the required nanoskills so that the MP is once again pushed towards more nanoskills.
Reaching lvl 165 yet already being able to cast the next 3 upcoming pets if it wasn't for their lvl cap isn't very motivating. From lvl 120-210 there is hardly anything we can do to increase our damage potential and are stuck in a gap that is nearly impossible to fill.

For raw numbers I'd go for ~

Biazu: 1100 MC/TS
Urulok: 1300 MC/TS
Ettu: 1500 MC/TS
Biazu: 1700 MC/TS
Rihwen: 1900 MC/TS
New endgame pet: 2300 MC/TS

Mortificant: 1400 BM/TS

It would result in a new way to twink a pet profession, bringing them to a point where they are supposed to be imo.

[Flyingengi]

Lower cast times please. 15sec seems to be nice, would be around 6-7sec with 220 inits.

[Dancingrage]

Since I'm at a nice pause point during my twinking T3 on a 137 MP I'll stop by and put in a few points.

My big beef with MPs and our pets is that we can get an utterly stupid amount of nanoskills without really putting too much effort into it and point for point we could probably compete with profs that get super high weaponskills with our own nanoskills...and there's really no point to doing so, unless you're a creation weapon user trying for a few points more damage.

I'd said before and I'll state again here: I want a pet that rewards its master for pushing the envelope of nanoskills. My thought that a pet that had certain attributes scaling with the master's nanoskills upon cast would make MPs think a bit before tossing their nanoskills out of the window, and for those who pushed the envelope (and got 3k nanoskills, etc) would see pets that would be worth the effort for them. (mind you, this is my thinking specifically about the Combat Pet.)

Healpets, it's very apparent we need a new one, 2.5k-3.2k ish healing range, shorter cast time or instacast, and while Camar says 215, I'll say 216. Remove the level lock from Healing Construct Empowerement, personally if I know someone who managed to run to Inferno for the Healing Staff of Alcofribas Nasier before they could cast Morti, they damn well deserve to have 20% healing efficiency on their healpet!

Mezz pets: We've gone over this before too, the mezzball needs more uses than just the mezz it has because we run into too many situations where flexibility is called for. Switching the nano effect of the mezzball with another nano would solve this and give the blue bomber new life. Options discussed previously are nuke, blind, mezz with lower NR check, and AOE mezz, and that's just the short list.

Pet Pathing/Sync: This isn't noticable in pvm, but pvp it's a killer. Not so much pathing as how simple it is to kite our pets. Roots, snares and calms we have a tool to work against, but simply running around in a circle works just as well. The current suggestion that was floated around was adding a snare effect to the cold nuke line, allowing the pet to catch up and hit the target in question, though debate on who and how it should work was ongoing at that time. (25% proc that doesn't check resists vs 100% but subject to resists, iirc.)

As my 137 MP sits right now, nose deep in perk reset, I could cast Biazu with one buff (no AI armor.) and with AI armor could go well beyond that. The big problem with level locking all pets past a certain point is that other professions are under no such limitation, so you see TL5 advies wielding SSoS and a 236 AI axe while you're still sitting there with TEP or Cacodemon, which are not only both falling behind but the Evocation line which gives them AR boost also falls behind. Yes, other profs have level-locked buffs, but as the game has progressed, these professions have recieved means to get to better weapons and the better weapons to try for. My greatest achievement for twinking is likely to be putting on T3 at 137, and I intend to take that off and put REAL armor on afterwards, because all the pets I could be going for to be more effective are all level locked!

Yes, unlock Urn Pets, I have a thread up on Game Suggestions for that very thing.

That should sum up my thoughts on MP pets for the moment, if more occurrs to me I'll put it down here.

[Ebag333]

For raw numbers I'd go for ~

Biazu: 1100 MC/TS
Urulok: 1300 MC/TS
Ettu: 1500 MC/TS
Biazu: 1700 MC/TS
Rihwen: 1900 MC/TS
New endgame pet: 2300 MC/TS

Mortificant: 1400 BM/TS

It would result in a new way to twink a pet profession, bringing them to a point where they are supposed to be imo.

The problem with using nanoskills as a requirement is that it changes over time.

Look at traders drains. While they've always been accessible to TL4/5 levels, pre-NW that's where the 131's were used at.

Now my level 75 trader with basically no +nanoskill gear can cast the 131 wrangle with infuses running (and stacking drains). That's easily a 75 level drop.

Granted that's a very extreme example (pre-NW to effectively SL). But it still illustrates the point I think.

While I personally very much dislike level locks, I consider them a necessary evil to prevent the silly things you see happen, such as TL3 traders using nanos designed for TL5 traders.

Ideally the level lock is set lower than the nanoskill requirements. As an example, for a new 220 pet you might lock it at 216 but req 2400 TS/MC. That would be difficult to achieve at 216 (though possible), but would reward someone who twinks TS/MC below level 220, while not being overly difficult at 220.



On a different note, I'm quite impressed with the feedback so far. All of you have made compelling arguments, especially Camar and DR. Who says all threads in the MP forums have to end in flames?

[Elentra]

I would like to 2nd a few of the opinions here and add maybe one or two things.

1. Mez pet is almost worthless. It takes about 10 seconds to mez anything and often even longer than that. Of course in PVP I have yet to see it do anything :/ It would be nice if it had a higher AR so that it would almost always mez on 1st attempt. Then in PVP there might be a chance that it would be at least an annoyance and call someone once in a while to make them work for that kill.

2. I'm sooo in favor of encouraging MP's to gravitate back to nano skills. That is our primary strength over all other proff's however after lvl 100-120 everything you have to look forward to is level locked and very easy to use when you finally hit a level you can use it. I like the 2hb options that we have now however it would be nice to see a 2k nuke that could be used with the shield.

3. Heal pet should heal faster. I think the current heal amount is fine but a shorter duration between heals would help equally in PVM and PVP.

4. I would trade increased pet performance for RK like casting times. This would really add options both PVM and PVP if your pets get rooted, killed or kited out of range. You could then kite and recast. Even an unbuffed pet is better then a dead, rooted or lost pet.

5. If we can't change cast times what about a pet merge? Nano (Pet Sacrifice) lose the mez and heal pet in exchange for a AOE Root/Calm pet or sacrifice mez pet (15 minute lock out on recast) for 5 minutes of 500 AAO to attack pet. <-- maybe add a graphic where whiner eats the mez pet Oh Noes!

6. Oh yeah and ofc AS on Julian staff WOOT! Ok just kidding about that one. Some sort of spear throw or something

[scenenheard]

On the subject of the Mezz pet:

the only time I have really found this pet essential was when I was soloing Notum Scourges for my shroud. It was a perfect tool for keeping that extra add at bay if I happened to do a bad pull. It was also quite useful during some team SL missions for knocking out 1 add when there were no other calmers in the team.

I personally think that Yidira would be a useful pet if it had a higher def, HP and calm, maybe even make the calm a close proximity AoE calm (3 metres?). This would certainly boost an MP's usefulness in teams.

[Camar]

I would say for PvM, the Mezz pet has the least priority. It works fine in some places, not so great in some others. But here Heal pet and then Attack pet are earlier on my list of what should be improved.

For PvP on the other hand, you could kill two birds with one stone if you improve the Mezz pet, so that it helps to stop kiting...

[Mazzarin]

make the "mezz" actually take the mob out of combat so you can open chests, enter grid, use kits, yalm up, etc...

[Metafly7]

Okay here is my view on things:

PvM:

Attack pet: Overall a nice pet can take some hits but over time has lost damage if compared with the advances of other proffesions aswell as its master, it hasnt progressed as the rest did and therefor should atleast get a damage boost.

Heal pet: Maybe even more usefull than the attackpet especially with the current defence its master has, but as the attack pet he has lost in this case healpower. As mobs are doing somewhat more damage (take the LoX Dustbrigades for instance, especially the Dustbrigade Commanders) opposed to what Mortificiant was meant for. Morti was intended to heal up against mobs in SL like say for instance a Weaver who for a mob in SL hits pretty damn hard with its 3-4k damage if i recall correctly. Nowadays these Dustbrigade Commanders hit 4-5k and have a bigger AR. Healing more is one option, healing faster is the other, altho the reason to choose for healing faster would be because healing faster makes up for the bigger hits. It can stop an alpha in its tracks.

Little explainaition: Say a mob does 15k damage per minute and lets say the Mp has 15k hp. U could have a heal pet that heals 15k per one minute and one second or u could have a heal pet that heals 7.5k per thirtyone seconds. Where the first will get u killed the second one lets u live. Its an extreme way of putting it but i hope it proves my point.

Mezz pet: Good pet low on hp tho but in PvM its a wonderfull pet so for PvM id wish no improvements myself.


PvP:

Attack pet: Good hp stops ppl from killing it to easy however no defences like its master has at all, and as it should be a manifestation of its masters anger i think it should resemble the master more than it does atm. Atm its just a damage monkey which its pretty good at. However its to easy to calm/steal/root/snare and whatever other debuff u can think of.

A new attack pet would need in my eyes, more defence against the debuffs lets say a 50% chance which means its still feasable to try but doesnt make it as easy as it is atm. Id like to see more representation of the master which means a resemblance of the masters evades. And by all means make the master use some nanoskills for its pets, for all i care u ask us to use some switch gear like the research hud, phulaks, nano controller units etc etc. We can reach high standards on that one and even tho im trox ingame im definitely not opposed to it. In return it has to make up for it by being strong as an ox and showing whos realy boss when it comes down to it.

Also its to easy to kite as ppl mentioned above and which they gave reasons and solutions for so ill just stick to what they said.

Heal pet: Healpet is like the attack pet to easily debuffed the same 50% decreased chance of debuffing it would make up for it or a nano that whipes those debuffs entirely leaving a gap of time where it cant be debuffed. Also PvP damage has gone up like where i mentioned before that PvM damage went up. Heal pet also in this case would need faster healing opposed to bigger healing since faster healing can kill and alpha which U, FC, are so desperate to change our proffesion into one that cant be alpha'ed.

Mezz pet: And here he is, our biggest problem in PvP, where this pet is absolutely fine in PvM, it lacks AR, Hp, and overall usefulness in PvP. It cant land a mezz for beans or atleast not at Title Level seven, since thats what my post, srry for mentioning it so late, is about. It just wont land worth a damn so i usually run around BS without it. It should have a function so either more AR, or like the healpet faster casting or even both would help. In this case both are indicated unless the AR gets realy good in which case speed isnt needed because it would be overpowered to have ur opponent stunned for to long a time like Bureaucrats already do, pls dont make that mistake again

Thats pretty much my thoughts and suggestions and explainaitions, im sure as i read more of ur ideas ill get more and more ideas myself

And leave the ice nukes for a different topic

[shadowgod]

I would like to 2nd a few of the opinions here and add maybe one or two things.

1. Mez pet is almost worthless. It takes about 10 seconds to mez anything and often even longer than that. Of course in PVP I have yet to see it do anything :/ It would be nice if it had a higher AR so that it would almost always mez on 1st attempt. Then in PVP there might be a chance that it would be at least an annoyance and call someone once in a while to make them work for that kill.

by all technical means, mez pet is suppose to root in pvp.

however, going by posts over past several months, its been sounding like this may either be broken, or people's NR and/or root resist is so high, it cant do anything, especially at end-game pvp.

[Xtremtech]

Aye... but the root effect also breaks incredibly easily, so it may also just be breaking. Worth a quick test.

X

[Dancingrage]

Well, it's reasonably safe to assume that Yidira has similar PM/SI to the MM/TS requirements to cast it. This isn't a 100% certainty, naturally, but it's an assumption we can work off of to start until more knowledge is brought in to play.

That's 1298 PM/SI for starters. Add in Comp Nano for 20, Comp Mochs for 140, and if you're 2hb, another 80 from Mesmerizing Construct Empowerment. That' brings us to 1538 PM/SI as a rough beginner's estimate. I don't see that rooting much of anything in TL7 PVP except on rare occasions but it's good for pvm from Inferno on down.

That said, while my current numbers are an estimate, testing is a must to get a real idea of what rough estimate AR Yidira and Tumulten use for their attack. I'll see if Metafly7's busy and we'll hit the Test server.

[DaviasI]

My comparisons will be with the high level near end game pets.

But before I do that I will say between level 90-100 when you can cast Cacodemon (or probably earlier now) and level 165 to cast Biazu …is way too long to go without an attack pet upgrade within that time period. The MP quickly goes from uber to massive stagnation around 120-130 where some would feel the best solution is to power level then go back and see what you missed. Or painfully farm tokens the entire time. The Urn pets are more of an “oh crud, I need something now” or a pvp-oriented pet as opposed to being a real fill-in pet during the Cacodemon to Biazu era. And going from Biazu to Urolok was painful because that is the period when an MP starts picking up weapons and for most of the time the MP uses Biazu, the MP will out damage it. Unfortunately this will be a trend with any aggressive MP for the rest of the game where the MP damage/defense/NR is approx equal to or greater than the pet.

Pets in PVM

Attack Pet:

Strengths:
It can tank a lot better than a few years ago. We can tweak its aggressiveness. Rihwen can do some serious damage at 220.

Weaknesses:
A half dead leet can still take agro from it if it gets serious. And 100% chance that if you hide behind a rock in any place other than the catacombs, the mob is going to come after you even while your pet is still wailing on it. If we go pure defense the pet will be dead in almost no time from pretty much everything that the MP will be seriously challenging. Then there is the long recharge, which is only okay if you have QCF trained up. If you don’t have that, you’d best be the tank. At 212 Zhok is great, but 217 I recommend power leveling to 220 if you want a decent pet (yes I am aware of the irony). Despite wielding what I think is a melee weapon; it has to stop to attack. This severely limits its damage during kiting.

Changes:
Give it the ability to hit moving targets and attack while on the move much like a melee player can. Add one more attack pet in the 212 to 220 range; don’t be afraid to put it at the same level as a healing or mezz pet.

Healing Pet:

Strengths:
Steady consistent healing. When the fight starts you know after the first few good hits whether or not your heal pet is up to keeping you alive for the fight or if you’ll need supplemental healing.

Weaknesses:
Steady consistent healing. I watch my hp bar go up and down to gauge the damage the enemy does. Based on those first few good hits and the tools that I have I can tell if it’s a battle I can win. Sadly kiting isn’t always an option.

Currently the two things that can make the heal pet better are:

a) swap in a weapon that nerfs my damage (the one thing that might actually save me) and
b) the Ken Fi perk.

The weapons trade off isn’t worth it in most cases as the mobs will do more damage than the staff will increase healing and the AI perk only lasts for 30 seconds and is eschewed in favor of other perks that have longer lasting effects.

Changes:
Add another heal pet in the 212-216 range and a final heal pet at 220. We have a nano that with a minor modification would fix our problems immediately at the high end. The nano Healthy manifestation increases the pet’s regeneration rate. It’s not enough to make a difference in battle but enough to lower the down time between battles. If this nano also amplified the heal pets ability to heal or loaded a proc into the pets NCU that allowed a chance for a big heal the pet it would bring the pet more in line with the battles that the high level MP’s actually deal with. Another option would be a High chant nano that works on the heal pet,

Mezz Pet:

Strengths:
When dealing with creatures near the level of the MP and fully buffed, Yidira works well in taking care of the wandering add or calming an opponent to stop an attack.

Weaknesses:
More than one add and there isn’t much it can do. You can spam it across multiple targets but it doesn’t attack fast enough nor does its calm last long enough to make that an effective tactic. Boss creatures outside of RK missions and human type enemies above level 250-ish are nearly immune to it. Aliens are immune to it; I can’t remember it ever affecting a single alien.

Yidria is still squishy but in the cases where it actually dies, well it wasn’t much help to begin with so adding HP to it won’t help much other than to be a distraction for another second.

Changes:
A new pet around the 210 and again at 220. In addition to greatly increasing the pet’s base AR a new line of nanos designed to improve the pet would come in handy. And since they would be in the same line only one would be effective on the pet at a time so the MP can then tailor the mezz pet to the situation, I would suggest blinds, AOE calm, snare, double length single target calm, stun, AR or init increaser for faster mezzing attempts. AOE calm, snares and blinds would be a secondary effect in addition to its normal attack

At the higher levels MP’s will routinely face enemies 240+. After about 250-ish human-type mobs it’s worthless. Lower echelon DB mobs it will take hold one just fine, but later on in the same zones I’ve wondered if I forgot to tell it to attack.

It works with decent effectiveness in the shadowlands against outdoor mobs and some dungeon mobs.

Pets in PVP

Attack Pet:
A player in motion isn’t going to get hit often by the pets and many times the pet isn’t even an annoyance when the player stands still.

Changes:
We need a Berserker nano. It should be pvp only like masters bidding but instead of adding damage it drastically increases the pets range (and possibly AR) giving it a better chance to hit those moving targets. On the other hand since it is getting so seriously aggressive like berserkers its defense drops. Once players realize it’s harder to avoid the pet they are more likely to waste time on it especially if its defense it lowered.

Heal Pet:
Alpha=dead pet plus 30 seconds before you can get another.

Mez

Strengths:
Works well against an opponent that has little to no NR. Good for blocking peoples view.

Weaknesses:
Worthless against anyone remotely prepared for it.

Changes:
Similar to the PVM situation, improve the pets base AR add a set of nanos that only work against pvp targets like masters bidding. In this case AoE calm would be too powerful so I’d recommend the snare, stun, blind, or AR (for mez pet) increaser. Further skill de-buffing might lead to an imbalance given the rest of our skill set, however damage de-buffing is a useful possibility though if the de-buff that landed could reduce damage by a percentage as opposed a set amount the de-buff would find a longer use cycle as players get more powerful. Once its NR has been improved, it should be immune to being charmed, feared or calmed since it emanates from a part of the MP’s psyche that would be alert for that.

Another general comment I’d like to make is that a new pvp based set of pets could be introduced for the beginning and middle ranges of the current TL structure. In these cases they can be similar to the pvm pets but subtle changes will make more suited to pvp.

Attack pets: A longer reach with a greatly boosted NR.

Heal pets: High self regeneration in combat, but with enough hp that it can survive one alpha but not two. Pet Nano for Heal pets that has a chance to do 5m AOE de-buff removal on all friendly targets with each heal.

Mez pets: Snare, Blind, Stun effect
With a separate line of pvp only pets, they can be tweaked and balanced to keep up with pvp player’s skill and not introduce game breaking abilities into pvm. These pets would always check their target and make sure it’s a player or pet otherwise they do nothing.

The urn pets were a step in the right direction the problem is they stopped almost immediately and like all other pets weren’t updated to fit the new reality of new content.

[Xtremtech]

Despite wielding what I think is a melee weapon; it has to stop to attack. This severely limits its damage during kiting.

Are you sure this is the case? I seem to remember testing that pets hit while moving a loong while back - though I honestly can't remember if that was with RK or SL pets.

From memory, there were issues with pathing often leaving targets outside the melee pet's 3 metre weapon range though... and there were quite a few requests at the time for a greater weapon range or for weapon range buffs for pets.

It's a long time since I did it and of course a lot could have changed between then and now. Even the major pathing fix from way back when could quite easily have altered the situation, depending upon how it was actually implemented - though we tested that pretty heavily at the time and I'd like to think I'd have noticed such a change....

Pragmatically speaking, you could say it doesn't matter, either way the pets don't tend to hit often when moving... but practically speaking it can make considerable difference to solutions.

For example, if it is more a question of weapon range, then a single low level buff could solve the issue for the all pet professions at all levels - which would be much more attractive and much less costly for FC than altering or building new pets to solve it. Or you might end up with solutions that simply don't work of cours...

X

[Xtremtech]

P.S. Pets are essentially mobs with some extra bits and bobs. Mobs certainly do continue to hit you while you're kiting, with more or less success depending upon how close/fast you are.... so there's good basic theory to the idea that pets should be able to hit while moving.

I'm still leaning toward the thought that weapon range is probably the major issue.

X

[shadowgod]

Are you sure this is the case? I seem to remember testing that pets hit while moving a loong while back - though I honestly can't remember if that was with RK or SL pets.

From memory, there were issues with pathing often leaving targets outside the melee pet's 3 metre weapon range though... and there were quite a few requests at the time for a greater weapon range or for weapon range buffs for pets.

It's a long time since I did it and of course a lot could have changed between then and now. Even the major pathing fix from way back when could quite easily have altered the situation, depending upon how it was actually implemented - though we tested that pretty heavily at the time and I'd like to think I'd have noticed such a change....

Pragmatically speaking, you could say it doesn't matter, either way the pets don't tend to hit often when moving... but practically speaking it can make considerable difference to solutions.

For example, if it is more a question of weapon range, then a single low level buff could solve the issue for the all pet professions at all levels - which would be much more attractive and much less costly for FC than altering or building new pets to solve it. Or you might end up with solutions that simply don't work of cours...

X

P.S. Pets are essentially mobs with some extra bits and bobs. Mobs certainly do continue to hit you while you're kiting, with more or less success depending upon how close/fast you are.... so there's good basic theory to the idea that pets should be able to hit while moving.

I'm still leaning toward the thought that weapon range is probably the major issue.

X

attacking while running might actually be a client-side artifact.

as one can sometimes see attack pet attacking a mob in another room of a mission or such (even mobs do this on occasion too), where it's constantly running into some random wall, but it is attacking the target on other side of the wall.

clearly the server thinks the mob and pet are in the same room and fighting just fine, but the client is thinking different, or just isnt getting updated correctly.

which, considering that the.. oh what was it called.. "black doors" or such still occurs on occasion.. where you open a door, and only see black, instead of the next room.

this and the heal pet nano delta are two things that really could use official answers... maybe i can find someone this week to get some sort of reply from..

[Xtremtech]

Yup could do with testing. I understand the point on client-side issues but as with kiting... you can have a seemingly long period runnning round, still being hit by a mob (based on combat text and damage arriving).

Remembering back to my testing, I vaguely remember doing some PvM (player has aggro then runs with pet still attacking mob and looking for damage to mob) with a sub-level 10 character to try to remove flat runspeed from the equation as much as possible, some along very flat paths etc. Generally trying to remove potential bad pathing areas, so lots of straight line running.

In an arena we did stuff with pet Vs player including with and without snares on the player to be able to remove runspeed and some Pet Vs Pet with target pet not defending and on follow to its owner (to try to remove client side stuff as much as possible and even out pathing) etc.

It's quite a difficult one to set up, because if movement of the pet's target is only a bit faster than the pet, then given the 3 metre range of pet weapons, the target can easily move far enough out of range before the pet has reacted. If that happens then the pet will tend not to get back in reach until the target stops.

I seem to remember doing some PvP stuff where the attacker would move first and then the target, to be sure that they were really close to each other.... which would almost never happen in real play of course. All in all the above just shows that it was one of those things where I never really felt I'd ruled out all other possible factors... but I came out reasonably confident that pets hit while moving at the time.

Good luck with the testing... you may have to be a little creative.

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