APing stripped toons in PvP grace period to save a base.

[meatybtz]

anyhow, HUGE bump for beaking pvp grace when you mech up for defending. I did it also myself with a stripped nt to stop 2 twinks. it's not cool, not fair. (yes they ganked me) but if i was with more stippid nabs that meched up in apt's and avp's.. you get the picture...

wtb a change on that, and as one of the very first replies also said: "If you cannot affort the time to twink a decent toon you do not deserve to hold a towerfield of that lvl range."
and don't go whine about creds because you can farm everything yourself. maybe you only need to buy treatment suit and imps. and that's about it. the rest is just gettable. And you don't have to be in full alien armor to be part of towerfield pvp.

And you dont deserve to be able to take a tower field just beacuse you twinked. Obviously since this is the way it is in game right now its the FC view. FC View> Your View. SO repeat the mantra as much as you want... that only twinks deserve such and such. If FC decides to go over to your point of view then so be it. However FC thinks you need more than 2 people to take a tower field. It seems they have found a way to start enforcing that concept.

[Questra]

Stop being an idiot and use fodder toons against fodder if you cant figgure out that rockets are support not primary kills you might start figguring things out and winning rather than loosing.

I'm sorry but this statement doesn't quite make sense. I was talking about a normal toon using two weapons, one primary and one for specialist support. Not quite sure what you're getting at there.

Rocketeers move in to support the mechs just as APTs support the AVTs.

What this should say is "APTs alpha the rocketeers just as AVTs alpha the mechs"

But I forget you cant comprehend tactics and think that it represents skill being able to mash keys and grind stuff.

Um... what are you talking about?

Suddenly your lone wolf godmode doenst work.

Um... read the post. There were 6 of us in mechs.

You cry foul rather than realising hey mabye I need to employ NEW tactics. If you cant take the site with 3 Mechs, try 4 fodder Heavy Mechs.

Or how about 6 heavy mechs? There. were. 6. of. us. in. mechs.

Now. please. learn. to. read.

30% per rocket is great. 4 people with rockets firing in sync after a mech draws the fire of the turret and the turret is toast long before the mech is.

Ok, I think I have it. So instead of needing three times the number of defenders to take down each one AVT, all we need is 4 times the number of defenders to take down each APT? Wow, you've helped me so much!

On the amusing side, all those "other players" that your crowd like to look down on suddenly have a very important purpose.. clearing the road for you guys to get the glory. They are grunts, use them as such. The "otherside" has already figgured this out. They know you will spend your best against their least. They are quite willing to die over and over and over. You need grunts on your side willing to do the same to win.

Ok there, I think someone's watched the Battle of the Bulge a few too many times... AO isn't world war 1 trench warfare, mate.

I look down on noone but a coward. If non twinks come to defend a base I respect them and I have made this clear on RK1 many times. In fact, sometimes I almost feel bad killing a base when such a good effort has been made to defend it. Especially when the people aren't twinked and they're trying to use teamwork. The other day, 4 people were attacking a base and 4 people successfully defended it. Me and the 4 defenders were twinks, the 4 attackers weren't, and I was telling an enemy enfo how great it was that they all came out to try their best. Kudos to people like that. Trying to accomplish something when you have a low chance of success is commendable. And when I die at towers, I keep coming back. I respect anyone else who does also.

[meatybtz]

OK, I will give it to you that you respect fighters.
BoB isnt WW1 its WW2.. anyways

The point is Twinks are "special". The problem is that in AO the gap is huge and unless the defenders who are joe normals understand the concept of overwhelming numbers then a twink can pick them off. Actually thats not a problem.. thats fair.. the non-twinks /fail at tactics needed to bring down a twink.

The same is true here. Yes so you need 4 times the number (not really, they are static you are mobile.. pick them off one at a time keeping out of range of the other batteries). You know what.. so do the nontwinks vs you.

Seems ballanced. The intent behind mechs/turrets origionally (though badly implemented) was to allow non-twinks a fighting chance and thus have a PLACE on the field. One twink in the old way could wipe out 10 non-organized nontwinks.. and turrets were useless because of OS + 220s planting. The only change I see needed is to make turret range== mech range thus no one gets free shots.

[Gatester]

You know what, just give Scout mechs bigger range than apts and avbs again, problem solved.

[Hellsranger]

I think between Lyl and I, we've put forward enough evidence on why APing SHOULD break grace... and we've countered very well the vague arguements against us, most of which consisted of "haha RK1 is gimp!" and "Just mech up!"

Now I'd like to see someone explain why APing SHOULDN'T break grace? What possible reason is there, huh?

If you'd read my post I did put forward a convincing argument. No team of 6, twinks or gimps in medsuits SHOULD be able to take a site. The fact that you can if noone shows up is a function of the increase in player power with new items, armors, weapons that have been introduced since NW was launched, not a function of how great you are at tactics or PvP.

If an org wants to own a tower site they should earn it the hard way via pvp, not by zerging a site at 4am when noone but "medsuit stripped gimps" are online to defend. I'll repeat - The advantage should always lie significantly with the defenders. TAKING the site should be hard, keeping it should be much easier.

Just to clarify, I don't much like pvp, I've never been particularly good at it, and don't have a lot of interest in learning. Because of my location theres been a few times I have been online, when most of the org is sleeping, with 1 or 2 "medsuited gimps" and had to rush to our towers to defend. Yes I APT'd, yes I killed a couple, also got killed myself, and YES I ran back and APT'd in grace. In those few instances where its happened its never been a full team of uber twinks, its been 1-3 toons slightly less gimp than myself who if left alone probably could eventually take the site down, but really just keep coming back to be annoying. it's ironic, because these days a handful of us gimps could probably capture a site if noone showed up to defend.

If you nerf this defense here's the way its going to work. You log on at a weird hour, zerg site, plant CT, your org logs in later, plants towers and all pat yourselves on the back about how you pwned those stupid clammers/omlets.

The org you took it off starts scouting your base, probes a few false attacks to work out when your not there and a few days later they, or another org (or more likely a cross-org group of pvper's), logs in while your all sleeping off your celebrations and does the same right back to you. This continues add infinitum until we all need to keep 20 packs of towers in our inventory to replant twice a day as towers change hands.

But hey, at least you can pwn those guys in medsuits and get your site, cause thats what counts right?

[TheDdevil]

So wait, because peoples play in an other timezone and because its your own fault that the base is hot at a weird hour attackers have it too easy?
doesnt mean if its a weird hour for you that its a weird hour for someone else
and yea we all made uber twinks just to fight med suit nubs and brag about it.

[lyledesol]

Maybe FC just wants people without <--------------------------> this big PvP epeen to have some fun in NW too?

I do see the frustration here. Good skilled players loose against less geared players. Imo defenders should always have a advantage, and its equal for all btw. Just got to own a tower field to have it.

so so , this so called twinks spent all the money on the gear but can't take the time to farm VPs...how about instead of just spending money on uber gear in this game on gear spend some time playing and more .spend some time in strategic planning also.

Same answer to all: I don't see the borked mechanics issue has anything to do with the attackers being twinked or not. It 's exactly the same problem for non-twinked attackers.. (The only difference being maybe defenders wouldn't have to AVT/APV in the first place).

There's no need to IP psychic to be able to airstrike APTs, just spend some IP on intelligence. A single person in the vicinity of the CT will be able to spot any defenders and plant the marker before they have the chance to turret up. Then you can just proceed to bash the rest of the towers to pulp while someone pulls the airstrike switch - and if you have several orgs participating in the attack, it might be an intelligent idea to plant another marker there before too long.

Or place a orbital strike ready before hand so do not need to fuss about placing one once the defenders turrets up?

Newsflash: Orbital strikes DO NOT kill turrets any longer, they damage them yes, but don't kill.. OSB + Airstrike probably would kill them, but thats two tags that have to be placed? (not sure of that).

Why do the attackers not set up mechs and such ready BEFORE the defenders arrive? Keep some for attacking towers and some ready for the defenders?

Already covered in previous posts. To kill AP/AV's you'd need 2x or 3x the defenders always meched + mechs cant kill ct's. So you also need un-meched toons to kill ct.. TL3/4 ct's do NOT go down before the defenders can rez and re-ap/av.. How many attackers would be needed?

[Reids]

However FC thinks you need more than 2 people to take a tower field. It seems they have found a way to start enforcing that concept.

Hardly our fault that if we're capable of taking a field with 2 people, that the org doesnt have enough people to take out those measly 2 by themselves. The defending org shouldn't have an I Win button.

[Questra]

No team of 6, twinks or gimps in medsuits SHOULD be able to take a site.

Well, you're entitled to your opinion, but on RK1 90% of the tower battles involve 6 or fewer people on each side. There would only be one battle a day or less if this were not the case. Since you don't care for PvP, and you aren't involved in all those battles, I don't think you have much say in what should or shouldn't be possible.

Besides, at tl1 to 4, the sites and HP of the towers is so small that you should realistically need fewer attackers to successfully take a base. Keep in mind the tiny population of both servers too... it's hard enough getting 6 people for an inf team. A level 15 base that requires two teams of people to kill is a bit of a silly idea.

If an org wants to own a tower site they should earn it the hard way via pvp, not by zerging a site at 4am when noone but "medsuit stripped gimps" are online to defend. I'll repeat - The advantage should always lie significantly with the defenders. TAKING the site should be hard, keeping it should be much easier.

This just isn't the case on RK1. I could also say "If an org wants to own a tower site they should spend a bit of effort equiping toons that can defend it from attackers on the ground, rather than taking the easy way out with a bunch of dormant toons in medsuits that noone can be bothered to level up"

Just to clarify, I don't much like pvp. [also some fair points about time zones]

You make some fair points about time zones, but if your particular org has noone online at a certain time, and an attacking org does, well they should have the base if they can kill it, and your org should earn one that's in a more sensible time zone for your members.

I see most of the battles on RK1 and I usually review the logs of the rest that occur when I'm offline or busy. The situation you paint just isn't accurate. You have people not defending sites during US/Euro primetimes quite a lot, and you also get people attacking/defending sites heavily at midnight/early hours in the AM US time when Europe and most of the USA is asleep.

Most attacks aren't successful, and this was the case before turrets were put in place, so altering the turret mechanics won't change this.

Ultimately, the bases I'm talking about provide such small benefits and buffs that I feel it's clear that most people attack lowbie bases for fun, because they want to PvP. Similarly, if you don't care much about PvP, I'm guessing you aren't that bothered about the small buffs lowbie towers give you anyway, so if you have noone online to defend, ask yourself if it's worth your while fighting for a base that's in a better timezone, or if you aren't actually that interested.

[Questra]

I'll give you another example. There's an org that has more tl3 twinks than any other of their faction on RK1. A couple times when their tl3 bases were being attacked in the last 6 months, I've seen their best twinks, instead of defending the CT on foot, going into turrets to defend it.

When it's better for a lovechild twink in full combined to be in an AP vs another twink, you know there's something wrong.

[FixerSepyuff]

I'll give you another example. There's an org that has more tl3 twinks than any other of their faction on RK1. A couple times when their tl3 bases were being attacked in the last 6 months, I've seen their best twinks, instead of defending the CT on foot, going into turrets to defend it.

When it's better for a lovechild twink in full combined to be in an AP vs another twink, you know there's something wrong.

So take it from them and AP up aswell when your towers get hit? When in Rome right?

[Mereditche]

I really don't understand how spending 10 hours making a twink grants you the right to insta-win ever after, without any thinking, effort, tactics, numbers. Twinking isn't a big effort anymore, at least not at low TL's. It's all been documented over and over and the only thing we do is copy what a few great minds came up with in the past. After you've made 3 twinks it becomes a habbit. I can build one in a few hours, I almost don't need to make calculations anymore, cause I know where I can spend IP in and which spots I need to wait till I get all my 'standard' buffing stuff on before spending IP.

I never feel like I'm making an effort when building a low TL twink, I also don't feel like I'm doing a lot of hard thinking, cause it isn't, it's repetition of what has been done over and over.

The times of standing alone in a zerg of 10 noobs and killing them all are over and rightly so. Why, because in the end, it increases peoples ego in such manners that theres no room left for all the other people and then they leave and AO becomes this empty world with all those uber people in it.

The world is changing. Evolve or perish. <3

[Gridpain]

The world is changing. Evolve or perish. <3

so let's all rool toons at different level, NOT putting any IP in skills, NOT puting any implants / weapon / armor, not uploading ANY nano... and just fight mechs vs turrets wars ...

that will be soooo fun game ...

[Humlee]

I really don't understand how spending 10 hours making a twink grants you the right to insta-win ever after, without any thinking, effort, tactics, numbers. Twinking isn't a big effort anymore, at least not at low TL's. It's all been documented over and over and the only thing we do is copy what a few great minds came up with in the past. After you've made 3 twinks it becomes a habbit. I can build one in a few hours, I almost don't need to make calculations anymore, cause I know where I can spend IP in and which spots I need to wait till I get all my 'standard' buffing stuff on before spending IP.

I never feel like I'm making an effort when building a low TL twink, I also don't feel like I'm doing a lot of hard thinking, cause it isn't, it's repetition of what has been done over and over.

The times of standing alone in a zerg of 10 noobs and killing them all are over and rightly so. Why, because in the end, it increases peoples ego in such manners that theres no room left for all the other people and then they leave and AO becomes this empty world with all those uber people in it.

The world is changing. Evolve or perish. <3

Way to ignore the OP.

They're not expecting to insta-win because they've build twinks, they're just stating the fact that 3 stripped toons, that just so happen to be in the right lvl range, can floor a team of well played and well equipped toons.

Whatever silly way you guys try to bend it, the fact remains. And sure, it is possible to kill these 3 turrets, but 7minutes later theyre back, and eventually they'll have the entire team killed, as a tl3 apt can alpha almost any twink.
I'm not saying that meching should break grace, cause that would in my opinion switch the tables totally, and making turrets close to obsolete which is something noone of us desires. But there is no justification for stripped toons causing so much trouble due to an imbalanced mechanic that is turning lowbie NW into a silly mech fight, where player skill and equipment has little if nothing to say.

[FixerSepyuff]

so let's all rool toons at different level, NOT putting any IP in skills, NOT puting any implants / weapon / armor, not uploading ANY nano... and just fight mechs vs turrets wars ...

that will be soooo fun game ...

Sounds good to me.

[Underak]

The funniest thing is that he made this thread cause he wiped 2x on the same org(only one org) and he has to make thread and he want to fix things which are working like they were intended,yes,other orgs lost their TL3 fields, cause they didn´t show up,while OP likes attacking towers without defenders and when someone knows how to kick their ass then it is FC´s broken mechanic...bow your twinks,but no your skills.
Anti personal turret (look ANTI PERSONAL) > everyone(gimp,twink),apt is broken on tl7,cause it has low AR.
Say me,how can they kill all defenders around when they are outnumbered and attackers have tl4 support....they can´t and only way is LE expansion,thanks.

[Shumarte]

The better played toons should win.

Fixed. And I agree.

Clearly these med-suit-gimps are faaar better at playing their toons, compared to Hacre, Questra and all those other noobs, if all it takes is to set up a couple of APT's/AVB's in order to win.

[RedWobe]

Wow, I really can't believe how retarded the trolls are in this thread. People are arguing that 'PvMers' should be able to compete with 'PvP twinks' at PvP. Why? What kind a game would it be where effort didn't make any difference? How can you people not see this? People aren't even saying that PvM twinks should be more important, and that towers should have enough HP that twinks with high DD output against towers should be necessary. You all are literally saying that this game should be like counterstrike, where nobody has any advantage and everybody is on a perfectly even playing field? What the hell people... go play counterstrike if that's what you want.

You 'PvMers' (of course, this has nothing to do with characters being set up for ideal PvM performance, you are just talking about untwinked, no effort gimps) are saying that its so elitist and awful for us to try and infringe on the way you want to play the game. Did you ever think about the fact that taking away the ONE SINGLE PLACE where twinking and maximizing toons might totally destroy all of what is left for those of us who do enjoy twinking and PvP? There's already enough of us who have completely given up that only two BS stations ever run. Can't PvPers just have one activity that we can enjoy without a horde of people who want to play Anarchy-Counterstrike-Online, where its impossible for us to put love and effort into our toons and make them better than they once were, without this attitude infecting it?

The idea that it should be ok for the AVT/APT mechanics in TL3 to make twinking obsolete is rediculous. The people in this thread are like the Prop8 people who think that gay people being allowed to live in peace somehow will destroy their family. You have 99.999999% of this game where you can run around in whatever nodrop armor you happened to pick up off the body of some hopelessly overmatched mob and be just as good as anybody else. Inf missions, PvM raid encounters, AXPing, they're all easy now and devoid of any challenge or any reason to have a well-built toon - just like you wanted. Let us have our little tower wars. We're just like the gays, we want to play our little game in peace without your negative attitudes about what we love doing crapping everything up and your appealing to higher powers to smite us.

[lamehorse]

Bump for "Non-Unique" Rockets.Would settle for stacks of 10.

[Reids]

I really don't understand how spending 10 hours making a twink grants you the right to insta-win ever after, without any thinking, effort, tactics, numbers. Twinking isn't a big effort anymore, at least not at low TL's. It's all been documented over and over and the only thing we do is copy what a few great minds came up with in the past. After you've made 3 twinks it becomes a habbit. I can build one in a few hours, I almost don't need to make calculations anymore, cause I know where I can spend IP in and which spots I need to wait till I get all my 'standard' buffing stuff on before spending IP.

I never feel like I'm making an effort when building a low TL twink, I also don't feel like I'm doing a lot of hard thinking, cause it isn't, it's repetition of what has been done over and over.

The times of standing alone in a zerg of 10 noobs and killing them all are over and rightly so. Why, because in the end, it increases peoples ego in such manners that theres no room left for all the other people and then they leave and AO becomes this empty world with all those uber people in it.

The world is changing. Evolve or perish. <3

Twinking at lower TLs is still a challenge if you want it to be, sure you can have a level 25 in ql 90 imps easily enough, but why stop there, why not push for 110s? TL7 is where twinking is easy, there's been hardly anything added for twinking at tl2/3/4 .

Thats why AO is loved by me so much, the sky's the limit.