APing stripped toons in PvP grace period to save a base.

[Escritores]

APT's/AVB's make it harder to take bases - and easier to keep them. I can't see anything bad about this. At all.

In other words you want easy mode... I see...

[Lupusceleri]

Now Im looking for complaints from orgs like BANDA, or DI, or Dark Ninjas about APTs. Suprisingly I don't see any...and they do so many tower fights surely the APT med suit users are stopping them from taking sites. Wait I remember now last time we tried using APTs to defend some of them actual meched lol. They must be total idiots for taking the time to use 2 of their 7 attackers to mech up and take out our little apts. The 1minute they spent dealing with our APTs really delayed their destruction of the tower site too, the CT literally healed up nearly have its life which you know, takes about 2 minutes for the 3 enfs in range to finish it off.

Maybe you should start going to war on clan characters to defend clan bases and kill omni/neutral attackers, instead of logging neutrals to kill omni/clan. Then you would know what is going on in clan war bots, and you could avoid making stupid and false statements about peoples you never go to war together with.

I assure you DI complains about APT easymode "twinks". I assure you other clanners from orgs like BANDA, Order of Nyte, and Dark Ninjas complain about them too. I complain about them too, because gimps APTing from grace are a part of the cancer that is killing lowbie Notum Wars. You just don't see them complain about it, but that doesn't mean it doesn't happen.

Not every twink is L30 or whatever Lilpirata is at, where a simple Hack'n'Quack+RRFE+Behemoth (if you have low hp) can make you virtually unkillable to an APT. Or where traders can drain up to INSANE nanoskills, and cast Hagglers that heal extremely much for their level.

It happened more than once that we are taking a base, and suddenly some gimps zone in and start APTing at the CT. We can't touch them at all, there is NOTHING we can do to prevent them from APTing. Then we have to run out (well, my TL4 advy Wolfseye, can tank one APT indefinitely if she has the right OSB but she is an exception.. and is still screwed if more than one APT is built), let the CT regenerate, mech up, and kill the APT noobs - in the process cancelling morphs which are often essential in winning a fight with another, defending twink. Of course that doesn't pose a problem with my advy around since I can just rebuff everyone with Calia's Wolf, but that's usually not the case at war!

However. What we usually do when we encounter a friggin massive APT zerg is not meching or nuking (as 1k VP is a royal pain in the ass to get when there is no BS active in your level range). We give up and log off, then come back later and try to kill the CT ASAP.

--------

To conclude. I'm fine with APT zergs. Just make them attackable as soon as they ordered the vehicle, so we can actually stop them from f*cking us over.

[Escritores]

So? What about omni-med? I took down 3 tower sites in one short sitting in the 3/4 TL range on a crat in omni-med + cratsuit +COH pistol.. and gimp imps on. I had A 200 pet on and a nice charm usually (charms lolololol). Now and then a twink would take me out fast as hell.. I would rez come back and blow more towers.. eventually got some help and we annihilated the CT and moved on.

The attackers have the advantage in NW.. attackers can attack at any time during a rather wide "open" period of time. They can come in.. dissabled the shield.. get the defenders all stirred up.. go away for 2 hours and come back when no one is on or busy doing other stuff and start attacking again.. defenders come.. you run off.. come back in a bit again when they have moved on to other things.

If your not smart enough to know that: Medsuit armies can kill tower sites (been there done that multi-logged and such with others and an armyofgimps (to be fair they did have good NCU, but they were medsuiting)who insta-gibbed the best twinks at TL2 with massed AS vollies) then you shouldnt NW.

Most tower sites up to TL3 can be annihilated by less than one teams worth of super twinks in less than 10 minutes. In fact on RK2 there was an org who had it down to a science and in the TL3 tower range would usually dissable a shield and take a tower site down in 5 minutes by directly attacking the CT. I would clock their attacks and it was 5 minutes each time almost down to the second.

At TL2 a gimp army can alpha a CT in one go... a super twink can knock down a CT solo in under 2 minutes.

Wow.. You concentrate on making that long a post... And actually succeed at making one with nothing in it whatsoever being relevant as to why AP/AV are not op'd at lower tl's... :/

[erozc]

ibtl

[meatybtz]

Wow.. You concentrate on making that long a post... And actually succeed at making one with nothing in it whatsoever being relevant as to why AP/AV are not op'd at lower tl's... :/

Your reading comprehension /fails.

APTs and AVTs only need their range nipped. If APTs or AVTs prevents you from taking a site you suck.
You can: Zerg, Mech, Nuke, Airstrike, Rocket Attack.

They are imobile, you are mobile, use the advantage and your brain. In tl3/2 wars people are just used to zerging the CT for the insta kill. That in and of itself was never intended. If you lack the resources to overcome lolturrets then you suck. Plain and simple.

People were bitching about medsuiters in APTs or AVTs killing twinks... this lead to one of the more amusing elitisms in AO.. the TWINKCLUB... in their view ONLY people who twink unglodly have any right to fight. Everything centers on this odd thing called an Epee, which is peoples own hyper inflated ego.. which is in real life very small and thus needs inflating in the virtual world. Since I know that you can take on twinks (even the best) as a bunch of ASing gimps in medsuits I lol at the Elitist notion... they are good but unless sploits are used, quite killable by even a bunch of gimplies.. and its hillarious how much this angers them.

Pro-Tip.. anything in the virual world has no value.. go out and spend that effort getting in shape, a job, even on your education. Thats time better spent. And yes lol I can still troll my a$$ off on the forums because I dont play.. and dont care. Tra la la.. I should start fishing for infracts.

[Underak]

I think this is pretty self explanatory. If 3 or 4 toons with no PvP effectiveness at all can zone it at the CT and make AVs and APs and stop a full team of twinks in combined from killing a CT, I think it's time to make APing break grace, just like planting beacons.

I don't see what's so hard to understand about this. Fair is fair.

If APting can break grace then it would be totally useless,no?....Yes,it would be too easy for attackers.

I couldn't agree with this more.

The problem isn't that it gives people with weak toons a chance to defend. It gives them a completely easy time defending.

Well,pvm/small orgs can defend effectively with their "gimps" agains zergs of twinks without spending millions and hours with twinking their toons...answer:

If 6 "twinks" can't beat 4 defenders who set up 2 anti personell turrets, and 2 anti vehicle batteries, then those twinks must really be a bunch of clueless noobs (or as we call them on RK2 - "RK1'ers" ).

Sorry,it seems me that it was "gimps in med suit" vs "noob twinks".

You should already know that you can't place a Beacon if you aren't in level range of the site.

Get a clue.

I welcome this change it helps defenders as well and this lock is right thing from Funcom. It was a kind of exploit if 220 can OSs tl2 defenders around CT and he risks nothing,he only cleared field for attackers without hard work.....and if you made higher level toon,cause it is "EASIER" for you to take down weaker lowbies,well you deserved this nasty change like all 76-100+ who attacking towers 75<.

So only Twinks can defend their towers now?

Good perception. No,thanks to Funcom all people with PAYED account can effectively defend their field.

I think between Lyl and I, we've put forward enough evidence on why APing SHOULD break grace... and we've countered very well the vague arguements against us, most of which consisted of "haha RK1 is gimp!" and "Just mech up!"

Now I'd like to see someone explain why APing SHOULDN'T break grace?

How do you want to defend your tower fields if you don´t have enough people agains zergs? If orgs are ignoring tl3 attacks and they don´t try defend their own field,cause they see "there is a lot of attackers"...then these people don´t deserve their field now and in future too. But people who show up then they deserve their field for just reasons! And you should´t flame them in this thread, cause they didn´t waste millions of credits like you who has to win or win.

If people want to log their gimps and they want to defend their field then LE mechs are only defense which they got in this game agains ZERGS.
Noone is playing 24/7 and noone has time to make good tl3 twink toon.
So if APing can break grace then you can kill them very easy and tower field will be pwned although they wanted to try defend their field and there aren´t only omnis who are using this apts/avts,all claners and neutrals are using it,cause we got this LE mech support like expand of NW expansion for ALL "twinks and gimps" people who want to fun.

Fair is fair.

You should shame for what you said,cause you don´t know what is fair,why?
Here is a few of your fair play in NW::
..........rolling higher level toon to pwn lowbies
..........be dual logged to take down only one logged person
..........abuse your high level and be supporting by higher TL3s(e.g.Escritores´s NR keeper) and TL4s(g.gLyledesol´s MP)both are defending Questra´s stupid ideas,casue they wiped at apt/avt defense as well(shocked)
..........attacking with zerg when defenders are outnumbered
..........etc.


If you can´t live with it that some org want to defend their towers with all their possibilities in this game you should leave, cause like Kay said:

Maybe FC just wants people without <--------------------------> this big PvP epeen to have some fun in NW too?

I don´t want to flame peoples,but I think you aren´t 12´yo stupid kids who want to get what they see or am I wrong?It seems...
You should respect defenders and no blame them here or blame "broken mechanic"...if there is something broken then it isn´t in game but in you.

EDIT:I had to post it, cause I was really disgusted with all your "PVP epeen" posts and blammig defenders. You want to break grace while defenders apting and make it easier for you and no chance for defenders who are OUTNUMBERED. If it will be vice versa you shouldn´t post this "one big flame" on this forum, but you got luck and you are on other side.....so please,stop blame all who want to fun and hope in succesful defend and no only statistic of successful attacks with zerg like you and others in this thread.

[Hacre]

If APting can break grace then it would be totally useless,no?....Yes,it would be too easy for attackers.

I'LL TAKE THIS ONE.

Your "pro noobs and gimps" brigade have been using the argument "bring more people". Well, if you want to APT safely, bring backup.

[Kaylinne]

People were bitching about medsuiters in APTs or AVTs killing twinks... this lead to one of the more amusing elitisms in AO.. the TWINKCLUB... in their view ONLY people who twink unglodly have any right to fight.

Yeah that is exactly what irks me too. God forbid that you just want to play for some fun and not spend 6 months farming some obscure item that will give you 0.005% more AAD.
God forbid if you dont have like 1286473542 duel score or something.

You have to be ubah no-life compulsive player to be allowed to even try that side of the game.
And even when they need those less-ubah people, like in NW at RK1 Clan side right now, they are going to insult them and mock them nevertheless (check "noobs and gimps" above)
Blind and stupid elitism based on nothing ftw

[Entventurer]

The better toons should win.

[meatybtz]

*hides gascan and lighter behind back* who me? No I am not fanning the flames.

You know why AO will fail, even with the new engine and all the hard work FC is putting into this game? The players. The one thing FC cannot "fix". The elitism in the game, the entrenched hardcore attitude is something that is new player unfriendly and Means and the FC staff even did an undercover op about it and even made its way into the FWM. This should be an indicator of things.

You will kill this game for your own egos sake, and this goes for both sides of the coin, one want it 100% one way and the other want it 100% the other. The truth lies some place nicely between. Neither side will rest though till their way is THE WAY.

[Questra]

He is right. Your excuse was VP is hard to get at low levels? Yet complaining turrets are an easy defence?

Do you want the game hard or easy?

All my twinks, including my tl2s, have enough VP to afford beacons and rocket launchers.

Does that mean I have to stay at the CT and plant a beacon every 3 or 4 minutes on the offchance that the defending org is going to be lame and saturate the CT with turrets?

If you knew anything about tl1-4 twinks you'd know that the weapons are twinked on 95% of the time, whether or not it's a 74 agent with a SPS or a 114 MP with a high ql Parry stick and AAD shield, or a 40 trader with a JAME. Rocket launchers aren't an option.

[Shonta]

If meching/turrenting breaks grace then meching/turrenting while under attack should be doable. Also shorten the time to 5 seconds so people have a chance of turrenting.

There. No gimps cant turrent without either outside buffs or ac's or range to keep you from alpha'ing them in 5 seconds. Also anyone will be able to run up to someone and start apt'ing in bs with little chance to break it if they have any defensive perks up.

[flyinguns]

I don't understand this thread, what is the problem?

And now what, we will get proton bomb who will allow side who aren't strong enough to get more tower to destroy all the enemy tower in 5 sec , just because there aren't many twink in this side ???

LOL

Hum, there is a big diference between allowing some people to defend and allowing them to destroy peoples despite their levels and gear.

This is why this game fail in many ways, where are the rules that other devs put in everything they usually make ?

We are player we always found a ways to be more effective even if it's mean ignoring some rule, the work of a gm or dev is to restrict thinds who will break fun of ANY player.

Yes, because twinks have the right to take all their live to be able to kill 5 people .

This is a thing called , "working hard to be the best",

Being killed by someone not because he know how to pvp, not because he is well stufffed, but just because he is on an apt it's insulting ! a bit like a fixer with ai armor killed by a soldier in full Ofab

I know people have the right to defend their tower too but stop mixing everything.

[Reids]

People were bitching about medsuiters in APTs or AVTs killing twinks... this lead to one of the more amusing elitisms in AO.. the TWINKCLUB... in their view ONLY people who twink unglodly have any right to fight. Everything centers on this odd thing called an Epee, which is peoples own hyper inflated ego.. which is in real life very small and thus needs inflating in the virtual world. Since I know that you can take on twinks (even the best) as a bunch of ASing gimps in medsuits I lol at the Elitist notion... they are good but unless sploits are used, quite killable by even a bunch of gimplies.. and its hillarious how much this angers them.

If people that twink can be alphaed by people in med-suits, whats the point in twinking to start with?

It's the aspect of twinking that makes AO so great, you can push to be the best by putting in a lot of effort. A lot of effort put in = good twink (most of the time) and should therefore deserve to do well in pvp + NW. Putting on a medsuit and APTing = not a lot of effort and should therefore deserve to do less than great in pvp.

I remember reading a post somewhere that suggested instead of doing damage, the APTs proc debuffs (maybe a skill drain, snare, root etc). This would help any defenders on foot and hinder the attackers but not ruin NW.

[Questra]

Gonna add in a seperate little question here so its not lost in my previous rantings but,

When have APTs EVER stopped an attacking org from taking a site?`

To answer your question: after the changes in laser beacons being limited to level range of the LCA, every time the defending org has brough about half the number of attackers and put them in turrets.

My average of tower attacks is about 2 to 10 per day. Most orgs don't use turrets. But they're all going to start doing it now once they realise how effective and easy it is at tl3/4.

[Questra]

This is primarily a tl3 problem. My MP has 1.4k def and will die to an AP, despite Ess, HoT, Bela, and RRFE in about 1 to 4 seconds. Yet at tl7 APs can miss ninja capping fixers 90% of the time.

At tl7, you can go in and drop your mech alpha on an AVT and pull back with about 50% HP remaining. At tl3, you get flat out alphaed in an Assault Mech before you're even in range of the AVT.

Yesterday, 6 of us in Assault Mechs had pretargeted 3 AVTs, and we were spamming Fling, Burst, FA and inching forward. When we realised that we were outranged, we tried rushing in and spamming specials as fast as human fingers can tap, but the result was the same.

We did manage to clear the turrets once, when it was 2 AVTs and 2 APs, but 4 of us died in the process and by the time those 4 came back, still rezzing on the way, the turrets were already back up.

If you haven't encountered turrets at tl3, keep in mind that the mechanics are completely different. At tl2, my 22 trader froob tanked one AP with a lowbie HoT, ess, and HP drains cast on the CT. A 40+ trader wouldn't be able to do that though. There's some pretty messed up AR/damage/HP scaling in turrets and mechs from tl1 to 7.

The solution? Make meching break grace, just like beacons. Simple as that. If the defending org has been lazy and has let a raid force kill all their towers and get to the CT before bothering to come defend, they don't deserve to place turrets at the CT. In that case, they need to kill the attackers on the ground and THEN turret up. That seems pretty fair and sensible to me.

[meatybtz]

I will admit to not knowing the changes since TL2/3 wars since the NUKE CHANGES/BEACONING.

It can be valid that there is an imballance here but sorry to the twinks (I have made a few so so ones and thats I will ever care to do). All your time and effort in game adds up to........ nothing. Sorry somehow thinking that because you spent that time to be better means you DESERVE to be better as time marches on while the people who make and run the game decide HOW THINGS SHOULD BE decide otherwise.. your wrong and your twinking has zero value. I am not saying cant cry foul but *shrug*.

I never thought that the changes to OS were good. Might have helped at TL7 wars but blowing in the crap outa APTs/AVTs with it was great. Blow em away and knock down the tower before they can get back. Also.. again.. as the attackers you have the mobillity. If the site prooves too well defended, and sorry just twinks alone should NEVER be considered for game ballance, then switch targets. NOTHING stops you from doing that.

Also as to the twinked so hardcore you cant swap to rockets..... well whose fault is that.. YOURS. The game does not revolve about the concept of being so twinked up the arse that you cant take advantage of the included game mechanics then thats YOUR fault. The foundation of this game was different than today but the design FC intended still runs strong. They do not build to cater to just twinks who are the least of the population. Swapping is part of AO too. The game should go as they wish it and if they decide that the rocket can be swapped with no skills or becomes right-clickable or something then thats how it is. However demanding that game mechanics swing to your favor because of a choice YOU made is silly at best. So one of the best parts of AO has returned. The COST/BENEFIT of twinking. Your cost is you get your ass handed to you by a turret because the benefit you get is your bad-ass in person on person combat and you can **** towers with abandon because you are indeed bad-ass at those things. However the more this goes on the more the fact is.. someone just found the weakness of your twink build and they are using it against you.
If you are such a good player.. adapt.

Rule of Life: You cannot have your cake and eat it too.
You just got used to being top of the food chain. The best twinks thought they had it all beat.. all the benefits with negliable costs. Its been this way for way to long. Now its back. Yes its odd that its the gimps that are your weakness but then again, I see irony in that. I see direct intent on FCs part too.. mostly because nothing deflates you faster than getting your ass handed to you by a super gimp.

You keep claiming fairness but twinking isnt about fair. Hell neither is PVP for that matter. You /failed vs the AVTs because in your post you reveal.. you targeted 3 AVTs... well duh. Pre target one at a time and focus your fire. Yes a few will die. But everyone knows in chess the pawns go first... get smart. You want me to tell you how to win? Make pawns of your own. Bring your org gimps along as tower fodder. .. or make tower fodder of your own whose goal is to clense the turrets and mechs to pave the way for your heavy hitters. Your dumb enough to keep throwing your best against the enemies least when the enemy has the "high ground" as it were. Therefore every kill those AVTs get on you knocks down one of your best... meanwhile all you are doing when you kill a turret is taking out a pawn. You are doing the NW eq of sacrificing your Queen to take out an opponents pawn. Dumb on so many levels.

There this instantly removes the problem. Go forth and use pawns on pawns. Keep your value members in the back field on the go button waiting for the turrets to be cleared. THen you can take down that tower before the turreters get back.

WORKING AS INTENDED.

[Questra]

If the site prooves too well defended, and sorry just twinks alone should NEVER be considered for game ballance, then switch targets. NOTHING stops you from doing that.

Go to another base and watch the next defending org do exactly the same thing? That's neither reasonable, nor a long-term solution.

Also as to the twinked so hardcore you cant swap to rockets..... well whose fault is that.. YOURS.

Let's look at this option then. Make a tl3 soldier with a pretty normal, non twinked setup. Alien level 4 or 5. About 4k HP. A piece of OFAB, a little pred, a bit of Tier 1. Level 100-140 implants. Say a ql 125 Perenium blaster that can be swapped to a lowbie rocket launcher.

Want to know what happens? The soldier swap to rocket launcher, casts TMS 5 or 6 and runs into range of the AP. The soldier watches as his attack bar slowly reaches completion, and blinks as the AP caps him through TMS due to current reflect mechanics. The soldier shoots off one rocket and takes out a massive 30% of the AP's HP before the white screen sets in before the soldier can get another shot off. I've seen this happen.

Still think Rocket Launchers are useful tl3?

[meatybtz]

Stop being an idiot and use fodder toons against fodder if you cant figgure out that rockets are support not primary kills you might start figguring things out and winning rather than loosing.

Rocketeers move in to support the mechs just as APTs support the AVTs.

But I forget you cant comprehend tactics and think that it represents skill being able to mash keys and grind stuff.

Suddenly your lone wolf godmode doenst work. You cry foul rather than realising hey mabye I need to employ NEW tactics. If you cant take the site with 3 Mechs, try 4 fodder Heavy Mechs. 30% per rocket is great. 4 people with rockets firing in sync after a mech draws the fire of the turret and the turret is toast long before the mech is. APT turns on the rocket pawns and the Heavy Assault Mech knocks down the APT. At this point your special forces move in to finnish the job.

What you are asking for is easy mode. I've given you a solution. It does work.. but all you do is cry that your twink cant kill everything. OMG, end of the world I guess. I have handed you a solution that will work every time. It boils down to numbers. If you can field more pawns you can overwelm an entrenched position. Pawns come in Mech and Rocket Variety. Hell then can even be used to help add DD later on the CT push. There, now you dont even have to think.. just employ the template and win.

Though it is too bad that its not like this at every TL. It should be.. ends the 5 man kills CT in 5min tactic. Forces notum wars to be WARS.

On the amusing side, all those "other players" that your crowd like to look down on suddenly have a very important purpose.. clearing the road for you guys to get the glory. They are grunts, use them as such. The "otherside" has already figgured this out. They know you will spend your best against their least. They are quite willing to die over and over and over. You need grunts on your side willing to do the same to win.

[Xatgunner]

anyhow, HUGE bump for beaking pvp grace when you mech up for defending. I did it also myself with a stripped nt to stop 2 twinks. it's not cool, not fair. (yes they ganked me) but if i was with more stippid nabs that meched up in apt's and avp's.. you get the picture...

wtb a change on that, and as one of the very first replies also said: "If you cannot affort the time to twink a decent toon you do not deserve to hold a towerfield of that lvl range."
and don't go whine about creds because you can farm everything yourself. maybe you only need to buy treatment suit and imps. and that's about it. the rest is just gettable. And you don't have to be in full alien armor to be part of towerfield pvp.