Friday with Means - April 17th, 2009

[shadowgod]

Didnt take full 3 pages to fill the thread with petty arguments

i think you're missing out on the deeper, more thought provoking philisophical aspects of this discussion we're having.

[glitterdust]

Funcom hat not always hat coder in coder box have more make the coder hat for box engine so two year hat permanent more box hats from wiki.

After a decade of wondering...I finally know where all my hats went.

[Kaylinne]

i think you're missing out on the deeper, more thought provoking philisophical aspects of this discussion we're having.

Yeah I tend to be superficial like that, I just want my profession balance.
/spank you too

[shadowgod]

What do you think is more difficult, interfacing with a new graphics engine or interfacing with a whole new platform?

the answer you're looking for here, is "yes".

[haavarst]

I do not feel that the ability to calm ANY boss is a central part of the Crat toolset. The nanoline is not called "Boss Calms"...that is what someone else called it. I respect the idea of a "panic" button...but that is not how it is being used.

This looks great Means And I take it you do know that we players dont need or want a "boss calm" that can calm anything. It`s just a silly fun tool of no use. What would be nice is something that works at mobs. Make yourself a semi ok crat toon and try the existing aerea calms/single calms in Shadow land/AI city raids/DB instance/Xan/BS. Equip some CSS armor and some AS weapon since its clearly that direction you want us pvp crats to go.
Try to find something decent to charm while your at RK/AI/Xan aereas.
Try to get a decent AR or min dmg on a shotty or a bow.
Try to get enough AR on a crat pet to actually hit inn pvp.

sigh /reroll it the best fix we can do these days.

PS! fix crat, stop nerfing.

[Lektronik]

OMG YOU'RE RIGHT!!!!! They must have canceled the engine!

I'm surprised you are just now seeing this. Better late than never I guess....

[Means]

Will this also include the NCU wipe you receive when getting back up from the bottom of "Inside the Machine"? Or is this intended?

Oops. Thanks for the reminder. I neglected to mention that there will no longer be a wipe, health or nano hit when coming up from the bottom. Now you will simply be returned to the start of the instance...outside the center circle.

Note: Every time someone uses /stuck I get a report with their character name and location.
1000's of players have now abused the /stuck system to get back up from the bottom to avoid the wipe/health+nano hit.

That this many people would be driven to cheat suggests to me that the punishment for falling, which was now much less than death, was too extreme and that /stuck would be abused as long as there was ANY punishment.

There will be no punishment for falling in the next update.

[Means]

map navig resetable? when? we know we are annoying...

Done in 18.1

[Berinda]

Still think a general Pande instancing is a bad idea, Id prefer a clan,neut,omni instance of pande so we could all do pande raids every week.

Anything that kills the zergbots - which should not have needed to exist in the first place - is a good step.

[Ayria]

Oops. Thanks for the reminder. I neglected to mention that there will no longer be a wipe, health or nano hit when coming up from the bottom. Now you will simply be returned to the start of the instance...outside the center circle.

Note: Every time someone uses /stuck I get a report with their character name and location.
1000's of players have now abused the /stuck system to get back up from the bottom to avoid the wipe/health+nano hit.

That this many people would be driven to cheat suggests to me that the punishment for falling, which was now much less than death, was too extreme and that /stuck would be abused as long as there was ANY punishment.

There will be no punishment for falling in the next update.

Interesting. Does /stuck also show that more oft then not people are standing and can't sit to use it? (hint hint)

And I think the HP/Nano wipe wouldn't be so bad if Aune didn't insta agg you soon as you came up and (having 1 hp left) one shotted you. If falling and using the warp back up means you're dead, ya, people will abuse any mechanic they can to avoid it. It's a large inconvenience, one said to not exist anymore. You don't die from falling but you die from coming up; hardly much change.

Though I guess it's harder to fix mob agg like that then it is to just warp them to a safe spot.

[glitterdust]

Oops. Thanks for the reminder. I neglected to mention that there will no longer be a wipe, health or nano hit when coming up from the bottom. Now you will simply be returned to the start of the instance...outside the center circle.

Note: Every time someone uses /stuck I get a report with their character name and location.
1000's of players have now abused the /stuck system to get back up from the bottom to avoid the wipe/health+nano hit.

That this many people would be driven to cheat suggests to me that the punishment for falling, which was now much less than death, was too extreme and that /stuck would be abused as long as there was ANY punishment.

There will be no punishment for falling in the next update.

Not to sway what you are doing, just to correct your perception of why what happened and is happening came to pass.

"Inside the Machine" was modified from certain death for falling off the bridges to a situation where: you fall, have your NCU wiped (many professions become about as effective as a paper cup at this point against the mobs that often fall down in here). Then you run the pads and zone up and are then smacked into a near death state (no hp and no nano). To add a level of frustration. Aune will have 9 in 10 odds of 'agging' you at this point and smack you to the reclaim. So, what we have is delayed near certain death.

What you propose (it's proposed until it's live, even if you are the Game Director) is that now the wipe goes away and the near death state for monkeying around down below is removed. This is great. Players with slower connections or machines that just are doomed to have issues with 'sync' now can still fall and lead their team to a chance of fail, but without the insulting penalties.

I've seen many a team try not to 'cheat' and disband because the tank or doctor fell. Often the only people who bother to use the 'cheat' (again this is my perspective and experience) are those assigned to secondary duties...tower killing, warping dead people back...aka not tanking or healing and thus not mission critical.

If anyone's read this far and understood my point, you'll see this is not an attack just a bare bones explanation of what happened to date with the instance and what's proposed to be done (and what it really solves...the 'cheating' is secondary). Some may even see the huge benefits of this. I tried to convince org mates why I love this instance so much...come'on Super Mario in AO? Too, funny. But the first half dozen times they fall use the pads and die on zoning up just resorts in them writing off this bit of content. Why this kind of thinking may even stem the bleeding. It's bringing some hope to me anyhow.

Still interested on how they'll make the Elder Halls a challenge requiring more than 3-5 people that actually provides incentive to bother. Current loot distribution indicates that if they do it incorrectly it will be dead content that the early farmers get to lord over the future players (oh, wait what future if they let that happen?). Ideally, if it was done right. The people inside would have proportional rewards and appropriate loot and the a system preventing people joining and entering AFTER the Xan has died would have been in place. I realize this mechanic is probably out of scope though.

Wow, sorry on the length, but most of you skip my rants ^^

[Smasherr]

Means, the original DB2 would be the best AO encounter if it wasn't for the sync issues. Hope you're planing to return to making falling lethal when or if the sync ever gets fixed.

About the 12 men... you can fix the door, but it still leaves us with the leaving team exploit. Any fix for that ? How about pulling Right Hand and using SB root, is this considered an exploit ?

/he started it

[Firestorm518]

this should be the final update in the 18.0 series (assuming nothing goes to hell). Now we can hope to concentrate on getting 18.1 with instanced pandemonium, instanced cities, a new space club and apartments out in the near future.

Have a great weekend!

Colin "means" cragg

this club should be in old athens!

[lugoman]

And I think the HP/Nano wipe wouldn't be so bad if Aune didn't insta agg you soon as you came up and (having 1 hp left) one shotted you. If falling and using the warp back up means you're dead, ya, people will abuse any mechanic they can to avoid it. It's a large inconvenience, one said to not exist anymore. You don't die from falling but you die from coming up; hardly much change.

Sounds like it will warp you to the start of the instance, right in the middle of all the mezzed commandos. Maybe this can be the penalty for falling.

[Ayria]

Sounds like it will warp you to the start of the instance, right in the middle of all the mezzed commandos. Maybe this can be the penalty for falling.

Well, don't think that was the way they figured we'd do things so really it's our own fault if we mezz there and die for warping there. Perhaps they'll have to actually kill the adds instead of mezzing them now.

[haavarst]

Done in 18.1

Failed. Did not reset when I did full skill reset on Haavarst.

[Fekal]

Failed. Did not reset when I did full skill reset on Haavarst.

Cool, you have access to FC internal test server?

[Ayria]

Cool, you have access to FC internal test server?

WTB.

(Clue for Haavarst: current version on Live is 18.0.3, not 18.1.0)

[haavarst]

Oopsie! Too many .0.X there Then it make sense! Thank you!

[SoldiTwo]

And you can quantify this how?

Ventrilo has had a "Linux client coming soon" notice on their home page now for the better part of four years. Given how easy it is to write apps -for- Linux, this renders your entire argument null and void.

That says nothing about my points, besides that they needed aprox 2 years for a mac beta.

All pieces of software are different. You have absolutely no clue what is involved in moving AO to a new graphics engine. If you did, you'd have more substantive posts beyond quoting crap from Wikifailure.

You have no more authority to tell FC that "two years is too long for an engine lololol" than I have to tell BMW that they should have mass production vehicles that can run on water by now. Knowing that you -can- separate hydrogen from water doesn't make it easy, or quick, just like knowing you -can- move a game to a new graphics engine doesn't mean you know it should be done by now.

Do yourself a favour. Shut up.

Maybe you do yourself a favour and ask Means if he thinks two years are too long for the engine and if they always had a programmer working fulltime on the engine.

For your information, you have the same right as I do and everyone else to post on this forum - free speech, you know?
That has absolutely nothing to do with "authority".

i think you're missing out on the deeper, more thought provoking philisophical aspects of this discussion we're having.
...
the answer you're looking for here, is "yes".

The point is you are a fanboy that thinks he is god.

Anyways .. trying to discuss with any of you is pointless, so back to topic.

Oops. Thanks for the reminder. I neglected to mention that there will no longer be a wipe, health or nano hit when coming up from the bottom. Now you will simply be returned to the start of the instance...outside the center circle.

Note: Every time someone uses /stuck I get a report with their character name and location.
1000's of players have now abused the /stuck system to get back up from the bottom to avoid the wipe/health+nano hit.

That this many people would be driven to cheat suggests to me that the punishment for falling, which was now much less than death, was too extreme and that /stuck would be abused as long as there was ANY punishment.

There will be no punishment for falling in the next update.

As you already mentioned it was just bad game design.

What else should these players do? Play "fair" and get teleported with nearly 0 HP and get then killed from Aune? If they did that well maybe they would have already quit AO and that certainly wouldn't be a good option for funcom moneywise. The first design was really clear, you fall you die. now it was you fall, somestimes fight stupid adds at the bottom and then use the teleporters to get up to get insta fragged from aune. The result was always death but in the first version you had nothing to do to finally get killed if you fell down.