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Thread: Agent Balancing

  1. #1

    Agent Balancing

    second post updated!

    proposed list of changes to the agent profession for the purposes of balance and variety.
    as it stands many profs can disable agents all we need is some incentive to play other mimics and i think many would.

    make a pvp nano useable by all professions to lower healing effeciency on anyone by 30% maybe with 5 sec cast and recharge time.duratin 10 seconds.

    the idea i had with this is agents would not be so overpowered with higher damage perks if there healing is nerfed a bit.
    but it also allows for dueling in mimic doc to be viable due to the sl essence mimic doc combo afaik.(other ideas welcome)

    Mimic Trader:

    give agents use of >>Improved Health Haggler<<
    or make equivalent heal for mimic trader. i believe with this addition mimic trader is viable for all agents in pvp.

    give agents the use of >>Lesser Industrial Sabotage<<

    currently my favourite mimic for battlestation is mimic trader.
    aoe roots are very good and with 2.7k ar i can drain up to 3.2k ish for 3 mins.
    also consider if you got 2.7k defense double drains on an opponent leave u more like 3.4k defense
    each nanite drain = -250 to all and also -150 aao
    some profs this is very effective against, others like enf/adve it is really not.

    Mimic Meta-physicist:

    give agents the use of >>Calling of Mortificant the Eternal<<
    >>Nanite Enhanced Nano Shutdown<<
    >>Lesser Beneficial Scourge<<
    >>Lesser Hostility Scourge<<
    >>Transcendent Enmity Personification<<
    >>Summoning of Distral<<(dont know hp on this one so maybe not good.

    Mimic Soldier:

    give agents the use of >>Remedy Inhibitor<<
    >>Augmented Mirror Shield MK II<<
    >>Reinforce fight (Team)<<


    change all agent perks and ai perks to be same range as rifle equiped inc add range items.

    Shadowsneak perkline:

    increase the aimed shot bonus from full perkline to 100 all together
    increase conceal in same way to 100
    increase sense to 30
    Shadowbullet damage perk: increase damage when fully perked to 2882-3482 lower attack time to 2 seconds.
    Nightkiller damage perk: lower attack time to 3 seconds. with 3 hits of 2399-4085 3 second tick

    Sharpshooter perkiline:

    increase the aimed shot bonus from full perkline to 100
    increase the crit bonus from full perkline to 10

    Snipeshot1 damage perk: lower attack time to 2 seconds.
    increase damage when fully perked to 2k-3k

    Snipeshot2 damage perk: lower attack time to 3 seconds.
    remove reliance on triangulate and increase damage to 3678-6847 fully perked.

    Infantry Perkline

    Called shot damage perk: lower attack time to 2 seconds. give damage bonus when combined with armor piercing shot/fade armor.

    other perk changes: increase the snare on tranquilizer and soften up. Allow the use of all ai perks from sneak.

    Nano Changes

    combine wave and shock damage/proc nanos into one with higher proc damage for each.change chance of proc hitting to something nearer 70% on hit.

    adjust breakout nanos to last longer. min 10 second duration for lowest one. with 3 min recharge.

    change bullseyes nano resist check to 70% and if possible change attack skills to pm si.

    add new agent dot.maybe one with each dot tick checking heal delta of target. eg. targets healdelta*15 with 75% def check with 6 sec attack 6 sec recharge.

    please note all damage is halved in pvp. and not all perklines can be trained at the same time.

    so thats what i have so far.
    increased damage and decreased healing in doc and increased options in sol/trader/mp.

    the heal efficiency nerf can be used on others too so overall i think its a fair enough trade off especially now that docs/adves are nearly unkillable.

    suggestions please
    Last edited by torakx; Jul 26th, 2009 at 03:42:21.

  2. #2
    heres my idea i been thinking about for a while.
    this is for tl7 buy it in tower shops for VP and its a one time buy imo will make the below mimics more viable for pvp.
    should be able to sit in ur inv and hotbar right clickable similar to motr or corrupted flesh which i based the idea off.except the nano or perk nano it casts will be decided by your currently running mimic.
    proposed item bought with victory points (50,000)

    Classic Deception

    The deciever is amongst you,beware of his tricks....


    Flags Visible, Has Multiple Count, No Drop, Unique, Disable Statel Collision
    Can Carry, Use, Apply Self
    Type Item
    Mass 0kg


    To Use
    user psychic >= 859
    User Intelligence >= 859

    On Activate Self AddSkill transparency
    On Use User Lock Intelligence 200s

    On Use User Cast Classic Deception (see effect below)


    Classic Deception

    The deciever is amongst you,beware of his tricks....

    Flags Modified Description, Default Target, Item Texture Override, Buff Nano, Want Collision
    NCU 1
    Nanocost 2000
    School Protection
    Range 10 m
    Effect icon ???
    Stacking order 1


    if Visual Profession == Fixer
    User Cast on self Dance of fools
    if Visual Profession == Adventurer
    User Cast on self Dance of fools
    if Visual Profession == Martial Artist
    User Cast on self Dance of fools
    if Visual Profession == Trader
    User Cast on Target Borrow Reflect
    if Visual Profession == Soldier
    User Cast on target Remedy Inhibitor
    if Visual Profession == Enforcer
    User Cast on self Bio Cocoon (bio shielding 9 gives 7.5k absorb)
    if Visual Profession == Doctor
    User Cast on self Battlegroup Heal (Assault Force Medic 7 trained, 2300 heal)
    if Visual Profession == Engineer
    User Cast on self Sloughing Assault Shield (6 hit, self only non-refreshing blockers)
    if Visual Profession == Meta Physicist
    User Cast on Target Sacrifical Shielding

    ok i know it isnt perfect but i think everyone gets the general idea on this item.
    now i dont yet know if it is possible to make such an item that does all this but i hope to at least bring it to the attention of the devs to consider the general idea of opening up more mimics and bringing agents back to being actual sneak lil agents. and not just mimic doc dd'ers

    imo this should be followed by the perk and nano changes above. but obviously is not perfect and possibly some perk changes could be overpowered depending on viariables with mixing mimics and setups.
    Last edited by torakx; Jul 30th, 2009 at 01:08:14.

  3. #3
    New Special unlocked at 2.6k Aimed shot skill (or 2.7-8k to prevent agent without scope getting it if the above perks ever get changed)

    same damage/multiplier template as AS, 60sec recharge?

  4. #4
    I just want something to deal with the waterfall of debuffs.

    Oh and agents' AS should ignore spec blockers.

    220/30/68 Clan Agent


  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by blackmesa View Post
    I just want something to deal with the waterfall of debuffs.
    Something like this would be useful if we could use it anytime.

  6. #6
    thanks for that info on the fixer nano which we can already use.
    however i think alot of professions toolkits come from perks rather than nanos.
    this is why i suggested upgrades to trader/mp/sol nanos for example.
    unless we get evade perks or nanos we can use in mimic fixer or adve that actually mimic dof or limber we are probably never going to be in mimic fixer etc for combat.

  7. #7
    In my opinion we should get some own toolset for more flexibility. We don't need a new mimic doctor, rather we need the ability to use other mimics without beeing as defenseless as we currently are.
    Last edited by Inovaye; Apr 8th, 2009 at 15:19:48.

  8. #8

  9. #9
    At this point, do we really want them to completely take away CH? I for one have just become so used to using it, and actually with the ability to use TP now I dont think we need much more FP'able nanos. If we were to lose CH ability I would demand some new nanos but until than I'm good with what we have. Basically all pvp situations as of right now go like this. Self buff / FP MA for RI, and AoM / TP / Mimic Doc for superior omni med, LC, nano repulsor, instinctive control. With these buffs and my new symbs in + gear my agent is significantly upgraded. And aegis of metal + nano repulsor gives me 2347 NR, but only lasts for 12 mins.
    First on RK1 to see a girl naked.
    Lovehandles 220/19 Doc (Solitus)
    Anrchistpimp 220/26 Agent (Trox)
    Conelius 216/16 Agent (Mage) retire/tradeskiller
    Sliceu 220/18 Shade (Opi)

  10. #10
    We have far too many useless buttons and useless items.

    It's that simple. I would much rather the stuff we have now being made more viable, as opposed to "new" stuff.

    Why not revamp dots so they have 0 NR? Why not make Gnats wing give 40% pvp crit, as well as AR to actually hit the target? Why should disappear have a 5 minute cooldown? etc etc etc. Why are root and snare removers as bad as they are? Why dont they just flat out remove roots? Why does Harm Shock/Waves of Trauma only hit for 1433 on the same % of proc? Why isnt it 50%+? etc

    It's just full of "Looks ok on paper, but you'll never use it because" is the main issue with the Agent class.
    I'm casting "Physical Dominance" on you as a kind of kinky thing
    ... also quite proud of being suspended from Lemmingnet.. for... not slacking?

    Don't be lonely anymore.

  11. #11
    i understand where ur coming from Con.
    im also worried we will get shafted if we lose idea was to nerf it only by 30%.
    but to be honest if they changed our perks like i stated in op and added those nanos i really think agents can return to being back where they were a few years ago in pvp.

    i cant help but get frustrated when i am forced to turn my agent into a tank because our perks are incredibly slow for a "glass cannon" prof. i run nearly always on bs as mimic trader now.(too many debuffs to survive as doc) and having drained up i can perk alot of people easy enough.but i still find alot of profs gettign there defences off before my first perks have landed.

    from description agents seem to be sneaky lil buggers popping out doign very high fast damage and running away.this isnt really the case today unless u count swapping a melee weapon which still isnt in line with the idea of a ranged DD.

    also to kinkstaah
    you make a good point about useless items. dmg procs should be combined to save ncu and procs should have higher chance of landing. also i like the idea to redo gnats wing. agents still have ar problems and bullseye isnt that reliable to land.maybe 40% chance for me on some profs that i need it for.
    il try add some of that as best i can to op.dont know if this whole post will help or not. but after speaking with means on testlive i got the impression he isnt happy giving agents extra stuff inc damage or perk changes until we are less reliant on ch.which is fair enough i think.atm we do ok damage and heal rather one or the other.

    ps just checked out imp gnats wing.
    User Modify Rifle 65
    User Modify Aimed shot 120
    User Modify Projectile damage modifier 220
    User Modify Melee damage modifier 220
    User Modify Energy damage modifier 220
    User Modify Chemical damage modifier 220
    User Modify Radiation damage modifier 220
    User Modify Cold damage modifier 220
    User Modify Fire damage modifier 220
    User Modify Poison damage modifier 220
    User Modify Critical chance 35
    thats pretty close to what u wanted. oops not sure about pvp crit. u can fill me in on that mechanic im rusty.its halved in pvp right?
    Last edited by torakx; Apr 9th, 2009 at 09:56:58.

  12. #12
    Yes its halved in pvp so 40% crit would be gnats giving 80% crit chance.

    @The 0% nr check on agent dots, well maybe 30% nr check is better and a 1 sec recharge and much reduced nanocost.

    Also running around in trader... hmmm no heals (well insignificant heals), lower chance to land your drains with the mimic debuff, no improved drains, no corp protection, etc etc... so basically its good against greens I'd imagine. The thing about sticking nanos of another prof unto an agent, is that those profs are especially made to use those nanos... so for example, u can give all the MP debuffs u want to an agent, the thing is, MPs (can) have the highest nanoskill ingame ie much much better chance to land those said debuffs, more nanoinit, much more nanodelta + nanocost etc etc.

  13. #13
    i will make a pvp vid sometime of me pvping in trader to show you how it works.
    main issues i have is with 220 enfs being unable to drain them they can perk me.
    some good adves also cause some trouble.

    the aoe root stops alot of people getting to me easy.then i can work on one guy with dmg and perks while draining and aoe rooting others same time.

    also take into account if our perks were fixed and with faster execution times im pretty sure mimic trader would be way more effective than mimic doc.
    i have 2750 ar in mimic doc.along with 10k heal that gets nerfed soon as im spotted and ubt.

    in mimic trader i got 3.2k ar.110 evade buff. 500 more nano skills. an aoe root. and 1v1 if i land both drains ussually not perkable.the heal is 990 i think.not great which is why i have suggested a much better one to actually make trader good for agents not used to playing different styles.its only 600 more heal but just about enough i feel to make trader workable for us.

    i agree about corperate protection.i had thought it a bit overpowered but will add it to the list.

  14. #14
    From my own experience pvping in Mimic Trader (yea, I did it a few times for the lulz but stopped because even with the debuffs Mimic Doc > Mimic Trader..):

    1) Need higher drain landing rates (even with NR0/1.7k++ nanoskills and both drains up), OR:
    2) Need the AAO/AAD drain FPable so we have at least some defense from "other" toons before we get our drains off on them.

    3) Need a bigger heal for sure - Haggler barely outheals regular hits after the target is double drained, and I FP soldier for rrfe if I do my mimic trader thingie.. and you can forget about outhealing specials like Burst/FA/AS.
    4) Need less hp (my setup has like 20k hp in full defense in doc, so that is still some 17.5k hp in fp trader.. way too high).

    5) Some professions (for example - soldiers, doctors, GOOD fixers, NTs) become completely impossible to survive/kill. Might be able to live some longer with wwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwheeeeeeeeeelp!1!! kitage!

    Especially need faster recharging perks. Because you rely on alpha a lot in Mimic Trader mode is my experience.
    Lupusceleri L220/30/70 Agent -- Advisor of Spartans -- equip endgame AR setup endgame def setup <3 Azs wearer of Cheree's pants
    Arrowsmith -- Arafellin -- Alphacenta -- Aesculapias -- Wolfseye -- Lysdexic

    TL5 enf twink: im out those MPs are to overpowered

    crattey: The Balance Discussion forum. Where common sense goes to die.

  15. #15
    well if we got the aao drain i added to list thats one issue out of the way.
    as for landing drains i wonder would it be too much to ask funcom to take out the -nano skill penalty on mimic trader and mp? or add a slightly higher version of mimics without penalties but harder to cast. thta would surely push many to mimic trader along with above list of changes.

    with fast harder hitting perks more ar will be the focus i think.and drains are perfect imo.
    wouldnt say no to improved nanites but that might be askign too much for people to take on with there already exaggerated view of agents.

    ps with a deck range increaser alot of those profs u mentioned become fairly easy apart from good fixers and docs.i can root and drain most sols and docs without them even able to reach me with nanos let alone weapons. cant remmeber nt's havent rly run into many that caused trouble since i went trader.
    Last edited by torakx; Apr 9th, 2009 at 19:23:32.

  16. #16
    wtb defense... FP'able GA would be nice. Only reason not to is the "fixer exclusive" flavor.
    A tradeskill for fixers to combine GA with shadowweb into a black grid armor wearable in SL.
    Would be sexy and be plenty enough reason to let agents go blue with their tiny selves.


    Actually forget that FP doc wearing GA ftl ^^

  17. #17
    I personally think means is wrong. CH is half a HP bar at the very best, it is nowhere near doctor heals.

    I'd just rather things we have added, be added properly.


    Agent Dots (needs to be say 750 in pvp, and actually land/be really fast to cast)
    Agent Procs (Needs to proc more than current 21/15%, as we dont land enough reg hits to justify +800 higher reqs for um, 60 more damage on 21% of landed reg hits in pvp)
    Agent Deroot/Desnare (i'm thinking insta-remove root here, but up with disappear requirements (i.e, high)
    I think Gnats wing should have 0s recharge instead of what it is, and give an AAO boost similar to Bullseye (i.e, 350 AAO) which means using both on a target would be ideal, for a whopping 18 seconds.
    I also think Deaths Gaze could be lowered NR wise, simply putting that much recharge for an Agent will make it troublesome.

    Changes like these would make the agent class less frustrating to play. Which is the main reason I log onto my enforcer. I can at least usually run away from debuffs instead of dying 15 times a BS because some guy can hit one button on his keyboard.

    But I mean sure, I made a thread like this in the professionals forum some years ago - look where it got us. I dont think agents are bad, they shine in group pvp, but I want some AGENT buttons to press or be worth pressing instead of UBT/CH being my main toolset.
    I'm casting "Physical Dominance" on you as a kind of kinky thing
    ... also quite proud of being suspended from Lemmingnet.. for... not slacking?

    Don't be lonely anymore.

  18. #18
    Im abit worried when i see posts about that they going to nerf CH. I couldent find any official posts about it tho, can someone copy paste them for me?

  19. #19
    there are no posts about nerfing ch.from any funcom staff.only suggestions say on suggestion forums.

    i suggested a nano for all profs that does -30% heal efficiency on anyone.althought i need to revise that idea and change it to profs that dont have one of these debuffs already and have trouble with healing profs like doc /adve /agent mimic doc.

    but i know for a fact the game director feels that others will cry out if we get balanced with everyone else and still have our ch as is. while i agree it really isnt overpowered i cannot change the mind of people who never play agent.they will always see us as op.even though majority of agents run in groups and do an annoying AS at the end of group gangbang. i think this is what makes people hate agents. the ones running around finishing people off lol.

    but im also tired of relying on mimic doc. mimic trader is alot more fun when it works.
    i admit lupu was right in a way about it not being as easy as doc.but i know funcom can easily make it easier for us to go for other mimics i dont know.

    sol would be crap without the heal perks.
    same with perks related to being fixer/adve/doctor/crat/enf/ma etc

  20. #20
    I never understood the lack of improvements about the agent toolset. Agents are supposed to mimic other professions, this is their MAIN toolset, that's the purpose of being agent after all. But, in fact agent can only mimic other profession's nanos and ONLY the RK ones. A good start could be to let agent access to perks, and also SL nanos with some restrictions of course, but as it is now, with our SLOW agent perks, our nano toolset so old and our LIMITED access to other profession capabilities, being an agent is only FRUSTRATING, no more no less, that's a fact. My agent is RIP since some months, after almost 3 years, because pvping after all this time with the same UBT/CH toolset is just boring...
    Darrolav 220/30/70 Agent on RK1

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