Friday with Means - March 6th, 2009

[rustinel]

I think you should be only be able to see nanos - friendly and hostile - that you have cast on a person.

This

[ThePartisan]

Just saying, I ignore requests on OOC to join orgs, because the last noob we picked up from OOC was a total weirdo.

And I stay far away from people with a mustache, because I once got shortchanged by a guy with mustache.

[Odov]

On a personal note:

Can this week be "Be kind to n00bs week!". We did an experiment this week where each of the devs would make a new character and try to get help..and god forbid...an invite to an organization. I think the most diplomatic way of describing the outcome would be to say there were "mixed results". AO is a very complicated game...please try to remember how it felt when you first started out and try to extend some kindness to these people...Rubi-Ka is a dangerous complicated place...a little help goes a very long way.

I'm so lucky I didn't log in this week. I would have been permed for sure

[Nuclearsmeg]

I think you should be only be able to see nanos - friendly and hostile - that you have cast on a person.

Agree

[Axtilmor]

I think you're all missing the important part of the post.

1. When is ________ being patched in?

Soon!

That's a blank check for everything we want. Example:

1. When is _Izgimmer's Octuple Nuke_ being patched in?

Soon!

You heard it here first, folks.

[Chrys]

I really applaud the efforts to see what the curve is like for new players from the perspective of a brand new reroll without recourse to alts for creds or orgmates for powergaming. I hope all the various morons who've turned this thread into a i'm-so-much->-thou flamefest will remember the larger point - that AO is not a noob-friendly game because the standards of games have changed very drastically in the intervening years since AO began and a host of innovations by other games to ease people into their game(s) has resulted in players finding it easier to find a home elsewhere, and if you are interested in keeping the player population up, you're going to have to accept some changes in this post-WoW generation.

I'll look forward to the changes Means et al attempt in the future on this

[JustinSane4]

Means, as a relatively new player myself (only been playing a couple of months) I am glad to hear you and the rest of the dev team are taking a look at what it is like for a new player trying to get started in this game. Personally I found the OOC channel and these forums, particularly the MP profession forum, very helpful. The player community as a whole (RK1) has been patient in helpful in my experience.

However, I had a lot of trouble getting started immediately after leaving Noob island.

You may find this thread interesting for some ideas on how to help new players establish themselves: http://forums.anarchy-online.com/sho...d.php?t=548112 . I know you are massively over-worked already, but if you have time, please take a look at it . Thank you.

[Tazalanche]

1. When is ________ being patched in?

Soon!

What?
No trademark?

[Marlark]

To the one particularly uncharitable person I met while on a low account this week:

"You didn't fall...you were pushed!"

hihi how is it said now .. emm .. /sploit /sploit /sploit /petition Means cant play without using godly powers!!!

However on a side note... I think one of the reason's why people shun lowbies that comes up to them and try to get a free ride when it comes to getting help is prolly related to the Credit beggers and so on back in the days. Alot of the old timers get very resentful to people because when you see a lowbie run up to you .. your first thought is .. ok here it comes the litle n00b wants credits. We know that alot of the credit begging used to be and prolly stil is ... going to the bastards that keep spamming the crap out of the ooc channels selling credits.

It didnt used to be this way ...

Myself i enjoy makeing a lowbie char just to rp random people ingame ... is so mush fun to see their reaction... last one i did was running around AO hill searching for my lost emm woman's accessories not gonna go further then saying more then that hehe... anyone that read this and got hit by this somewhat emmm upset toon may remember and now know who the crasy bastard is now hehe.

[Berinda]

Alot of the old timers get very resentful to people because when you see a lowbie run up to you .. your first thought is .. ok here it comes the litle n00b wants credits.

I can honestly say I and most of the people I hang out with don't react like that to new players. As a matter of fact, when a noob does ask me for creds, I explain to them in great lengths how to use a mission terminal. If they keep begging instead of rolling a mission after I go on to explain how working towards something in the game is rewarding, I write them off as a lost cause and continue on my way. I am also in the habit of giving credits and gear to people who are genuinely trying, but failing, and aren't begging. Haven't done that much recently, though, as most of my playtime isn't centered around RK cities.

The key to retention when dealing with new players, from the perspective of old players, is to suss out who wants a free ride and those who are willing to pay for the ride but can't figure out how to get on the bus.

I almost quit AO twice as a froob, below level 70, and it had nothing to do with quality of gear, my extremely poor knowledge, bugs or game mechanics. Both times were because I didn't feel a sense of community with the people around me. First time was remedied by re-rolling clan, the second time the only thing that stopped me was literally lucking into my first decent org.

I was in the process of trying to give my toon's gear away before deleting it, having found none of the froobs I used to play with were still playing after a four month break. The logic was that I had had fun with the gear, and I figured someone else could, too. Of course, I wasn't aware that my found-in-mishes armor and QL64 Div 9 were things no one wanted Especially puzzling to me was the Div 9, which I had scraped together the small fortune of 400k to acquire. I probably could have done it much sooner, but I was too enthralled with buying backpacks full of Miiir.

Steveo, the president of RKBH at the time, was impressed by my generosity in giving away things I no longer needed, and the logic behind it. He asked me to join his org, and I figured, "Sure, I'll give it a shot for a week or two." Now it's three years later and I have all the expansions and more alts than I need.

I guess what I'm saying is, don't be judgmental of people in a worse situation than you - instead strive to make their situation as good as yours. Look beyond what they are, and instead at who they are. I know that runs counter to the me-first epeen bull**** that seems to permeate TL7 these days - and yes, even I'm guilty of it on occasion before any trolls start up - but it's highly effective at building a sense of community. And if you don't have community in a game like this, you might as well just go play a single-player game.

[shadowgod]

Steveo, the president of RKBH at the time, was impressed by my generosity in giving away things I no longer needed, and the logic behind it. He asked me to join his org, and I figured, "Sure, I'll give it a shot for a week or two." Now it's three years later and I have all the expansions and more alts than I need.

i knew it! hes got mind control abilities!

maybe hes really a crat in disguise as an NT. or maybe hes an agent thats a crat at heart, playing as an NT....

oohhh... hes very sneaky indeed, but i'm on to him now!

[Castaras]

I do my best to help low levels when they ask for help. Especially when they ask nicely, use proper freaking English (a rarity these days...), and aren't begging for credits. I'll admit, I can be very curt when someone asks for credits. Especially seeing as I'm not the greatest at keeping money, and I'd rather be using it to sort out my characters, not give some new person the stuff they need to get another noob 220 made. In fact, I've spent around 2 hours with a click macro going helping some guy level his morphing memories to 200 so he could sell them to the trader shop - there was someone I was willing to support, who was needing credits, and worked out his own way of getting them. Helped that he also offered me quite a large share of the profit, but eh. :P

[Dummy]

On a personal note:

Can this week be "Be kind to n00bs week!". We did an experiment this week where each of the devs would make a new character and try to get help..and god forbid...an invite to an organization. I think the most diplomatic way of describing the outcome would be to say there were "mixed results". AO is a very complicated game...please try to remember how it felt when you first started out and try to extend some kindness to these people...Rubi-Ka is a dangerous complicated place...a little help goes a very long way.

To the one particularly uncharitable person I met while on a low account this week:

"You didn't fall...you were pushed!"

Have a nice weekend everyone!

Nice. Graphics, content and items is all good, but I think this is the way to get new people in to the game. I dont know what levels you tried, but totw is a good place to see "vets" in action. And as mentioned elsewhere, spammers is not the most annyoing thing in chat.

[Mastablasta]

The point is, there is hardly a single profession that isn't affected by this in a similar way as soldiers. Evade professions would be at a disadvantage since their opponent could see when their evade perks will be down. For nts/traders it's their nano shields, for mps its sacrificial shield, for troxes it's mongo rage etc etc...

I see no good reason to put this ingame, and every reason not to...

It was Only Hostile Nanos that would be visible. Which is the case with the AMS debuff, as that would be visible. So no, not every profession is currently affected by this. What is clear though is that all hostile nanos that appear as a result of a self-cast buff or other effect, like the Defensive/Offensive Focus NTs get, Detonation Matrix cooldown, NBS cooldown, all those need to be invisible to others.

[Ikarus]

It was Only Hostile Nanos that would be visible. Which is the case with the AMS debuff, as that would be visible. So no, not every profession is currently affected by this. What is clear though is that all hostile nanos that appear as a result of a self-cast buff or other effect, like the Defensive/Offensive Focus NTs get, Detonation Matrix cooldown, NBS cooldown, all those need to be invisible to others.

Correct. An idea is creeping into my mind, however. Thinking of 'Hacking' to give a Profession the ability to see the NCU of a target with a short-duration-debuff could be a nice touch, though.

Nice. Graphics, content and items is all good, but I think this is the way to get new people in to the game.

I think the problem isn't the complexity, it's literally the way new players dive into the game. It's simply lacking a red string. Grinding missions or monsters isn't the incarnation of fun. I'm thinking more of single Questhubs aimed at characters of level 20, 40, 60 and such where (new) Players could explore more of the vastness of Rubi-Ka, earn some levels, gain some tokens, some Rewards to help with their Equipment... basically to get up and running again to be able to proceed on their own for the next levels, until they reach a new Questhub, which will show them another region of Rubi-Ka, outside of Missions. There's even the possibility to hand out bits and pieces of a Newbie guide at each step. The Newbie Island helps with NCU and Nanoprograms. What about giving a hand with implants or giving an example for beneficial buffs from other Players.
A Quest for buying your own implant. Collect the Basic Implant, the Clusters, and find another Player who will help you by combining it - the same story with Buffs. Find someone to buff you [XYZ].

Handing out everything on a silver platter is surely not the right thing, but taking new Players by their hands, helping them out and especially helping them to be able to help themselves seems more like a fine solution.

You know this, folks: Give a man a fish...

[Kaylinne]

You know this, folks: Give a man a fish...

And next thing you know he will be asking for IGoC

[Steiden]

2. Perk reset npc? How much, when and how?

First use will be free. This will create a 48 hour lockout from using it again. Should you wish to use it again immediately instead of waiting the 48 hours it will have a cost of 20 million credits. This should be out in the next update.

I am a little confused here. At 6 February you wrote this:

Perk Reset timers:

When I said "Modest fee" what I meant was small and affordable. I am leaning towards an incremental system that would see the more times used..the more expensive it gets. With of course a reset of this system for everyone following significant character related updates. I also believe this cost should "cap out" at a reasonable number for players who are earning credits at end-game rates. Those who are not at end-game levels should have no difficulty paying for the first few uses of the system. I also think 72 hours is plenty long enough to wait in between resets (considering the old took much much longer.).

The old "free" system will also not be removed. I don't see how this can be a losing proposition.

So:
First use: 10 000 Credits
2nd: 100 000 Credits
3rd: 500 000 Credits
4th: 1 000 000 Credits
5th: 10 000 000 Credits
6th: 50 000 000 Credits
7th: 100 000 000 Credits
8th: 500 000 000 Credits
9th: 500 000 000 Credits

I imagine we can argue about these numbers until they are close to what we all feel is "right". Minimal use of this system shouldn't punish the poor and favour the rich. With a reset with character updates everyone should have room to experiment without breaking the bank...expecially considering the old system stil exists and this system is ONLY for complete perk resets.


Where should this NPC be? Ideas?

Would this mean that first use will be free, and then we need to start paying 10 000 creds, as you mention above ??
Or is the rates for 1th - 9th over here, just taken away ??



Steiden

[Deathorglory]

Nanos that are meant as lockouts shouldn't be visible. Nanos such as AMS debuff, challanger debuff, Affected by XYZ lockouts of the recent nanos, etc.

Other hostile nanos though should be visible, regardless of who put them there. Nanos such as init debuffs, skill debuffs, evade debuffs, snares, roots, blinds, etc. Of course, these will give an advantage to people trying to attack you, but would also be helpful for players on your side. For instance if you are UBTd, a nearby friendly doc has perks that can remove it. It would also help players on your side to see if you've been incapacitated in some manner, either drained, AMS stolen, GTHd etc. and take actions based on that knowledge. Being able to see hostile debuffs on both enemy and friendly players can be very useful. So let's not see only the empty half of the bottle.

I do hope though you'll take this idea a bit further regarding perks. There are a large amount of perks that are more efficient if the target is already affected by another perk that must be put there by someone else (another profession). Currently, perks put in the target's NCU a nano usually named "Affected by ...", ex. "Affected by Bloodlust". These are invisible at the moment. It would be neat if these could also be seen, so people could make much better use of different perk combinations. It would promote better strategies instead of mindlessly unloading all your perks a-la 1234567890 style. One might hold off a few perks, waiting for just the right moment to use them, to maximize the effect.

I also posted in Game Suggestions about something similar a while ago, but I made the mistake of posting it in the downtime before the pvp changes, so it didn't get much attention at the time. But here's a screenie of what I imagined it would be like. Having a target window like that would instantly give you the relevant information about your target:
- profession - knowing what profession you're about to attack should affect the strategy you're going to employ. Currently, you gotta hit T and wait a few seconds to get this information, unless you already know your target by name. This could be skipped if target is an NPC (in pvm)
- level and alien level - again, available through hitting T, but much faster this way
- health and name - for convenience. might be a problem in pvm though as some mobs have pretty long names. could be omitted in pvm or maybe even in pvp too.
- a list of hostile nanos on the target - I'd rather have the possibility to see them in list mode. icons alone would make it difficult to tell what exactly is your target affected by.

That about sums up my opinion and hopes in this matter. I am mighty impressed with all the good things happening in AO lately, keep up the good work. Cheers.

[Kurasaki]

Post Removed: I need to stop jumping to conclusions

[IHaveHugeNick]

All hostile debuffs running on the target should be visible, including stuff like Borrow Reflect. The "hostile" lockouts like AMS countdown, Concentration countdown, countdowns for 18.0 nanos, etc. - shouldn't.