Friday with Means - January 23rd, 2009

[CulannHS]

Okay I may be lost here..but given the current toolsets of many professions and the things in the DB available to various professions / breeds..

I'm not sure I understand why people are so interested in the mines for Engies given there's so *many* ways to defeat them, or bypass them, in which case their purpose is defeated.

I mean...really...is this just one of those things added in for the sake of adding in or am I missing something? I'm not being sarcastic here..not really..I'm just really confused as to how these could be in any way shape form or fashion useful to a Engie when they're so easily defeatable/bypassed.

[Wrangeline]

Okay I may be lost here..but given the current toolsets of many professions and the things in the DB available to various professions / breeds..

I'm not sure I understand why people are so interested in the mines for Engies given there's so *many* ways to defeat them, or bypass them, in which case their purpose is defeated.

I mean...really...is this just one of those things added in for the sake of adding in or am I missing something? I'm not being sarcastic here..not really..I'm just really confused as to how these could be in any way shape form or fashion useful to a Engie when they're so easily defeatable/bypassed.

How easy they are to bypass depends on where you place them. I assume the enemy side can't actually see the mines on the ground and thus avoid them that way.

As for why the mines are added to the game, Means would have to answer that one but my personal view on it is simply to add something that can be a fun addition to the game for some people and is not specifically profession-love.

Profession-love is the usual standard. Same as profession-nerfs. The mines, even though they are engineer only, will benefit the whole side and not just the engineer.

Anyone on the same side as the engie can see the mines on the ground and use them to their advantage if they are under attack. Very few tools in this game are given to 1 profession but is indirectly usable by others.

It's kinda like if Doctors got a healing-tower that they could place on the ground and that tower would give a short term HoT to anyone in its vicinity. It wont help the Doc much at all but it will help that side against the other.

This concept has been used in many other games and now it's slowly entering AO as well. I think it's fun. Others think it's useless because they personally don't "need" it. I don't need a mine that drains the target for 200 weapon and nanoskills because I already have drains but I would still have fun planting them because they would annoy the enemy and help whoever is fighting in that area when an enemy does run over it, even if I am there to see it or not.

[candle-645]

I simply don't understand why everyone here saying that new instanced cities will significantly drop market prices on AI armor and normal cities?

- There are already several hundreds of normal cities
- Everyone with AI expansions already may get access to city raids by joining org with city or buying own one (on RK2 2+ cities available for sale every month, and small city is 1.5-2 times cheaper than end-game equip of many professions)
- Increase of total amount of successful AI raids done per month (and bots farmed) will be neligible, if any - possibility to start raid doesn't mean ability to kill bosses
- Looking on my org as sample - year ago when we had access to 1 city and 4-5 raids was done per day in average, now with 3 cities available - # of raids raized to 6-8 and rather in result of more peoples with toons able to do solo raids

I suppose some increase of CRU prices right after instanced cities become in game and as result some minor increase of bots/AI armor prices. As soon as peoples who didn't AI raids before waste some CRU and ensure most of them can't succeed - prices on CRU/bots/AI armor will return back.

[macattack]

Knock back Question:
Means, was the "I Win" button a simple fun test of knockback mechanics? I really liked that button.. ICC guards don't come close to it anymore :-(

Mines:
1. I love the concept, and see new inovative content only open up the future for more fun items to use
2. Are these really only going to be used for PvP? other tools of destruction (grenades, circus dagger, swords, hammers, pistols, etc) are not PvP limited so why are these? would love to see these used in APFs (sec 35 would benifit from SNare mines) DB, Eng fleeing for his life in ToTW.. lol.

Question on Instanced Cities:
Would players be capable of using contracts? just curious (any scoop on the cost for an instanced city? or are they just a one time instance that is thrown away?
How will ai raids (org + non-org members) to be done? how will non org members be allowed into the instanced city?

[lazarus]

I simply don't understand why everyone here saying that new instanced cities will significantly drop market prices on AI armor and normal cities?

- There are already several hundreds of normal cities
- Everyone with AI expansions already may get access to city raids by joining org with city or buying own one (on RK2 2+ cities available for sale every month, and small city is 1.5-2 times cheaper than end-game equip of many professions)

there are not several hundreds cities! there is max 100 cities.
The price will drop so fast after the new cities will be introduced, as any org can go out and buy an empty city for 30-120m, not as now 1-8b.
So even very small orgs will be able and have the creds to get a city for them.

[Technogen]

there are not several hundreds cities! there is max 100 cities.
The price will drop so fast after the new cities will be introduced, as any org can go out and buy an empty city for 30-120m, not as now 1-8b.
So even very small orgs will be able and have the creds to get a city for them.

this is a bad thing?

also a small city is 150m to buy, meds 250m, large 400m.

[lazarus]

this is a bad thing?

also a small city is 150m to buy, meds 250m, large 400m.

no it's very good.

[Ellarisa]

oh i like those prices! any word on what the rent would be?
Greetings,



Ellarisa

[Technogen]

Thats current plots Ellar, CFI's city cost me 250m to buy, 51m a mo rent, city was close to 100m at the time to build.

[harkness]

Another question for next Friday, what do the developers see as the current role of Battlestation and VP? It seems that with every patch we end up with more and more items which must be purchased from VP vendors. At the same time, the options for obtaining VP are more and more limited. Currently the only way to get VP is either through LE missions or Battlestation. This was intended to give people both a PvM and a PvP way of obtaining VP, while making the PvP option more attractive.

However, the PvM "option" accumulates VP at such a slow rate for TL7 that it isn't really a viable option at all. I was testing things out with a couple of my 220 characters, and the maximum rate of VP I could collect in LE missions was killing quickly through grey missions, which got me about 400-500 VP an hour. Considering that a single 300 ofab piece can cost up to 30k VP, that's really an insane grind for anyone.

The PvP alternative is Battlstation. However, only two battlestations on Rimor run on a regular basis, 150-174 and 210-220. While both can occasionally be fun, what I find is that BS runs for 2 or 3 runs, then dries up as whatever side was losing leaves, and people sit in 30+ person queues for hours until the next one starts. The problems here are many, but boil down to battlestation being extremely repetitive, and yet required for all characters.

I actually enjoy TL7 BS a lot on my doc, but I hate it on my enforcer. However, because of the nodrop nature of VP, I am forced to grind Battlestation on a character I despise because it's the only way short of a 120+ hour grind to get VP. My guess is if you asked 20 random 220s on Rimor, 2-3 would say they love BS, 5 or so would say they like BS on one char, but hate it on others, and the other 15+ would just say they hate the place. Obviously this is just a guess, but I don't think it's that far off.

A few patches ago, the missions were added for the DB bosses, which gave a 1 time way to get an extra 2500 VP total for 5 bosses. I think this was a fantastic idea, except I wish the quests were repeatable. I don't think 500 vp per kill would completely invalidate VP, but it would give some people, like my enforcer who is always welcome to tank the dreads, an alternative to battlestation.

My real question at the end of all of this is what do the devs see as the role of VP moving forward? Is there any chance that more quests or the new booster instances, would give us a way to earn VP other than through battlestation? Or is VP still seen as the reward to the PvPers, a legacy of the Lost Eden "PvP expansion" that the rest of us just have to suck it up and live with.

[PhoenixOfAges]

Arrien and VP:
Been wanting some official word on this for ages now. Asked about if they have any plans for VP and other long untouched things in LE last FWM and maybe prior ones too but so far haven't heard anything. Changing profs to try to balance things, adding up to QL 300 spirits, changing perk resetting and all these other things are great news. But it would be nice to know if they have any plans on doing anything about VP and other things with LE.

VP in missions scales very badly and are exceedingly random (I have some numbers in the thread on LE missions linked in my sig). Since it's very hit and miss if any other aliens drop VP clumps it can be more effective to charge through the highest mission you can pretty much ignore regular aliens in, head to the boss, kill it then repeat. The bosses can have a good chunk of the VP dropped in the mission, are the only thing that is certain to drop any plus give you types too. Although one big problem is that these are suppose to be team missions. With VP as drops and it giving so little if your whole team wants VP your gains in missions go from bad to useless plus it slows things down. It would be far better if the whole general mechanics of missions got changed which I went into in the old thread linked in my sig.

[candle-645]

there are not several hundreds cities! there is max 100 cities.

Just doublechecked map - there are like 250-270 cities --- so I'm semi-wrong on my estimate since thought total cities amount is like 500-600.

The price will drop so fast after the new cities will be introduced, as any org can go out and buy an empty city for 30-120m, not as now 1-8b.

30mil for empty city? lol, wtb x200

Speaking seriusly - don't overestimate amount of cities owned by pure farmers. And instanced city is way worser than normal one by definition - at least no shops and no (or limited and close to neligible) city benefits. Every good org already have city or 2 for real reason. Add here peoples who have only 1 private city, rely on it benefits, use it as "epen enlarger", etc. And try to estimate amount of cities which will become available for sale. 50 cites (20% of total) max - are you really believe it will drop city prices on market by 30-60 times?

So even very small orgs will be able and have the creds to get a city for them.

Even single person already "able and have the creds to get a city" - so very small org of 2-3 peoples don't have 2-3 cities for reason

[Jick]

I HOPE the prices of ai armor go down, as current from 175mil for part of ql 300 cm to 300mil in a month is crazy.

Yes please add the option to buy directly from GMS , as when you need entire set of items or symbs to twink and buying it one by one, running to each different location after couple of years of playing becomes anoying and utter boring...

[lazarus]

And try to estimate amount of cities which will become available for sale. 50 cites (20% of total) max - are you really believe it will drop city prices on market by 30-60 times?


Even single person already "able and have the creds to get a city" - so very small org of 2-3 peoples don't have 2-3 cities for reason

Instanced PF will give unlimited cities. why do you think there will be a max?

and yes, this single thing will drop the city price to what it cost to buy and make plus some profit for the hassle of building it.

Sure the non-instanced cities will be more worth as they can hold shops, but im sure FC will fix that also at some point in the future, well hopefully before they introduce the instanced city PF. like spawn item from GMS.

So ur loaded with creds, good for you. that don't count for the rest of us.

[MajorOutage]

I don't think the price of physical real estate will drop much when the instanced cities are introduced.

As the saying goes: Location, Location, Location.

[trollingstones]

Antonio Stacklund should start selling alienarmors and bots bcos game is too hard and peeps dont have money anymore and time to farm.
Adri Afeli upgrades those to combined or even better as quest reward of free so u dont have hard time at subway or at skillzors pocketteamss etc.
omni clan and neut recruiters should start selling or give citys to newbies froobies whatever.
aliens at newbieisland should have s10 bosses loot-table cos i cant or dont know how to find teams at s10 or pockets there.


thanks in advance.

[Mikenche]

Just doublechecked map - there are like 250-270 cities --- so I'm semi-wrong on my estimate since thought total cities amount is like 500-600.

The exact count (on RK2) is 280. They are clustered together, most commonly with 2-4 cities in a cluster, which may seem the number look like less (referring to lazarus here). The number of clusters (as identified on AoRK) is 87.

[harkness]

OK, this is a bit of an experiment, but I thought I would throw it out. Google has a free thing called Moderator, where people can propose questions and then vote them up or down. President Obama's put one up for people to ask him questions, and I figured maybe we could prevail upon Means to answer questions based on it too.

I figured tomorrow was too soon, but I've created a moderator list for next Friday. Everyone add questions and vote on questions that are there, and maybe we could get some particulars answered! I set it to allow anon questions, so I don't think anyone should have to log in.

http://moderator.appspot.com/#15/e=16202&t=15fab

[irmo]

Means, we know its friday and that you are in scandinavia.
Start typing! the faster you post it the quicker you can go look at hot swedish blondes.

[ninor]

I like the moderator chat idea. Doesn't have to be every Friday but maybe every other month?

Another question for Means: You mentioned something about perks being more automated or so? Will that be part of the next patch? could u elaborate? Could find anything on current test version...