A "guide" as to why Title Level 7 Fixers are not cutting it (warning: very long post)

[Fifty50]

Josephina for professional, infact Josephina for Developer!

I agree with pretty much all the points you make. And the stuff you added from comments.

Great breakdown of the many issues fixers have to deal with. Before crit reducers, with hawk mk 5 and 40% cap, fixers were a bit over the top. So I guess FC thought they needed to nerf. However, this could have been done with a few of the changes you mention. But all of them, has been way over the top.

Personally I do ok at BS, aslong as there is not more than one NT (preferably none). But I have played for over 3 years and have no more improvements I can make to my fixer, I should be above average. With all that work, what if I had rolled a less nerfed profession..?

[streppelchen]

*cry*
i'd love to come back but then i'd hate again to be a fixer cause of the nerfs

[Josephina]

It's been almost 2 years since I PvP'ed and I notice that much of what you're saying was still true all the way back then. I would add though, that it didn't stop us from being badass in pvp (i.e. being a hybrid, master of none, medium damage, mediocre healing, that stuff). All of that stuff in the parentheses was intended ever since 14.4 when FC finally started working on the fixer profession. The most enjoyable part about being a fixer in PvP was that you would have to use your own imagination to circumvent those obstacles...there are really few professions in AO that have seen as much pioneering as fixers.

Fixers have always been a jack-of-all-trades, with an emphasis on support (that was how I played it as a froobie anyways), so I don't mind being mediocre at everything. During AI and right after LE release fixers were (imo ofc) mediocre dd + bad utility in pve and both mediocre dd and mediocre utility in pvp. So a bit underwhelming in pve, but a decent hybrid in pvp. It's only after 18.3 that fixers were really set on the road to be bad at everyting as a profession, and it's being bad at everything that got to me, fixers have been trampling in the same place for far too long now imo.

Josephina for professional, infact Josephina for Developer!

I'm flattered, but I don't think I'dd be able to make the slightest difference. Last year good feedback was given on the nigh uncastable short hot and the new collection of useless items, both by normal players and the professionals. I think there was even a majority vote by the players to put special hardcaps before the pvp damage reduction. It was all dismissed by FC: the ball is and has always been in FCs hands and I'dd rather be ignored as a player than as a representative of players. Besides, I don't think I'm even be eligible since I don't actively play

[Arlancor]

Hmm, I see alots of fixers doing great today. I actually just rolled a trox fixer just couse the dmg perks are fast and pretty good with low evadechecks. I think ill have alots of fun when im 207 on him and with MR perked.

I also have a 150 GA fixer.. no offence, but... I have /played my 150 solja for more than 30 days and my fixer just 15 days or so.. I have putted alot of work/money on my solja... but the fixer will be better for soloing on s10 and could kill my solja in a duel.

But yes I see that evades are kinda broke, but not as broken as MA evades (got a 220 MA and decent soldiers can perk me thru dof+limber)

[Doctorhyde]

Hmm, I see alots of fixers doing great today. I actually just rolled a trox fixer just couse the dmg perks are fast and pretty good with low evadechecks. I think ill have alots of fun when im 207 on him and with MR perked.

ANY of the fun a MR'ing trox fixer might have is going to be totally walloped by the fun you COULD have had with a MR'ing trox soldier.

You're going to be crying in your beer when you realize that those 10 perks used in another line would have kept you alive longer. And when you notice that your HP is too high for your HoTs to keep up with. And when you see that you can't do the final HoT as a trox without massive gimpage.

If you haven't levelled far yet ... reroll. If you're still planning to roll Fixer then go Opi or maybe even NM. Soli isn't awful. Trox? Pointless on a Fixer nowadays. Yes you can make a decent trox fixer but its will only ever be decent.

And yes, of course your 150 fixer will solo better. 150-174 IS the power-range for fixers. Hell, L20-174 is pretty close to a power curve for fixers. But it goes downhill fairly quickly after that to the point that at TL7 you are in the bottom 1/2 of profs and at 220 you're just average. Not saying its not fun to be a fixer ... but there is a HUGE difference between Fixers at low-mid levels and endgame. Personally I think the endgame for Fixer is allowed to get so middlin because we can be so damned OP at lower levels.

I'm speaking as a trox fixer who stopped for a TON of fun at 160-170 then made the mistake of levelling. I got to 217 and had plenty of compliments on how good of a toon he was but I still saw things getting progressively harder as time went on and by the time I got semi-twinked at 217 to carry him through grinding all of his research and AI ... I just gave up.

And I don't just mean PvP. Solo PvM (ie, soloing mobs in SL) goes way downhill, too. The only way to compensate at endgame will be to get the final HoT running. Maybe running around begging a CM every 8 hours or after every death won't bug you so much ... but it does me. Especially when you factor in BS. And without that HoT you will either have too much HP for PvP or too little for PvE.

Sorry to sound like a doomsayer, I don't mean to. I loved playing my fixer. I'm just trying to get you to reconsider troxness for yours if you haven't gone too far. Or make him a twink of some form.

But yes I see that evades are kinda broke, but not as broken as MA evades (got a 220 MA and decent soldiers can perk me thru dof+limber)

You realize it will be exactly the same story? Decent soldiers have more AR than my ex on her period.

[Cour]

Hmm, I see alots of fixers doing great today. I actually just rolled a trox fixer just couse the dmg perks are fast and pretty good with low evadechecks. I think ill have alots of fun when im 207 on him and with MR perked.

The damage perks are 'fast with low evadechecks'? Are you talking about generic 'champion of...' Perks? Elaborate please, why do you want to sacrifice a whole alien perkline to be able to kill somebody every 3 mins then? Or are you planning to make a Fixer version of Tykot (or whatever that 207 agent was called)?

I also have a 150 GA fixer.. no offence, but... I have /played my 150 solja for more than 30 days and my fixer just 15 days or so.. I have putted alot of work/money on my solja... but the fixer will be better for soloing on s10 and could kill my solja in a duel.

Grats on paying alot of money to have the cookie cutter 150 twink then. Yes, GA IV is overpowered at that level and everyone knows it. This thread is about TL7 fixers tho, sorry to inform you that nobody cares about your GA twink.

[Josephina]

You've probably noticed that there has been a lot of whining and lamenting coming from fixers in this past year. I've written a "guide" in an attempt to point out that this complaining was infact more than the usual forum pvp in a quest for more profession empowerment.

A "guide" as to why Title Level 7 Fixers are not cutting it (warning: very long post)

Hopefully my guide leads to a better understanding of the issues that plague fixers. I would also appreciate any kind of open feedback towards fixers, so their players can get a little bit of hope back.

Kind regards,
Jo

Almost one week ago I send this pm to Silirrion, as expected there was no reply of any kind. Thus it is time for me to crawl back into my coffin once again. If for some reason someone wants to contact me, send a pm, I enabled e-mail notification.




One other thing I'dd like to say before I go, is about this anti-cocoon nano idea

Hmm. coon is a big obstacle indeed.
Makes me wonder if a fixerish nano would be in place here.

nanocrystal Hack coon
Deactivates the defenders coons.
defend : nano resist 100%

It wouldn't be too easy to land, but would give us at a small chance of killing
adventurers, engineers, enforcers, keepers.

Currently it is that we simply cannot kill those 4 profs. Against good ones it is already very difficult to force them to use coon.

If, lets say in 2 years, the one dev still working on AO decides it's finally time to fix fixers, then I hope he/she doesn't do it with some kind of gimmick, but rather by expanding on what used to be the fixers toolset. I do not want any kind of tailored nemesis nanos that is useful against X, Y and Z prof, but useless against all other professions and in pvm, which is exactly what this nano would be.

In case you're thinking now: "But fixers do not have any kind of worthwhile toolset to expand upon, you said so yourself in the OP" -> It's not because fixers don't have a worthy toolset now, that they never had one. Pre-SL fixers did infact have a very good and wanted toolset: worthwhile hots, 2nd dmg modifier buff after adventurers, largest runspeed buff, ncu buffs that allowed the team to get all buffs they wanted (while ncu itself does nothing for the team, being able to fit in behe+rrfe+cost+... instead of having to chose is huge), useful minor buffs, a nitty evade debuff and last but not least, the incredible added travelling mobility of having a fixer in the team. Add to that being able to deal mediocre damage and you had a great well-rounded profession that was loads of fun to play. Add gridarmor to that and you have overkill. Right now too much of this once golden toolset has been made either: obsolete, almost entirely disabled or not improved enough to follow the stat inflation.

Imo it is very much possible to expand (in a logical manner, the SL hots are an example of how not to do it) on this past-toolset in order to put the support back into fixers and this without resorting to adding any kind of gimmicky excuse for a toolset. If FC did this it would almost certainly step on some other profs toes since they've gotten used to being the best at something (see the first reply here for an example of this: http://forums.anarchy-online.com/sho...d.php?t=515838 ), but I stay true to my opinion that every prof has to have something going for them.

If together with getting back a support fixers finally get some worthy SL profession specific perks, then fixer damage could take a small boost and fixers could once again be called true hybrids. All this without resorting to any kind of silly all or nothing rock-paper-scissor nanos. Making the toolset fixers should have gotten with SL release would be a lot more work than creating a couple of OP'ed nanos and items, but imo an actual toolset would be so much more worth it (read fun).


My post has gotten pretty long, so here is a quick summary: "For me fixers will always be what they were pre-SL or as froobs. I find the excuse of a toolset that remained with fixers with SL is so limited in actual pvm use, that I simply couldn't consider myself a fixer anymore. What I want, is to be a fixer once again."

Personally I think the endgame for Fixer is allowed to get so middlin because we can be so damned OP at lower levels.

I'm pretty sure you would feel entirely different about this if your only character was a fixer and if leveling up another toon wasn't really an option because of the shear amount of time and grinding it takes (I never made 220 on my fixer if it tells something about my ability to cope with the levelgrind).

ps @ Zadamm: my post is harsh sometimes, but don't take it personally. It is the idea behind your nano suggestion that I oppose, not you.

[Jenshiye]

Bump for Vilehatred who is anti-GA (sold a few or arranged the sale of them at insanely low prices) and lamented how the fixer profession is squandered.

(Yes I know Vile isn't TL7 but the principles of the tool set are the same.)

[Zadamm]

I don't see anything wrong with having specialized nanos.
For at the monent I don't see anyway for fc to make fixer such a profession that it would have a balanced fight with fixer toolset against the profs which I mentioned. And if you transfer cancel coon nano to -> cancel all absorbs, be it normal, corrupted flesh, nm edition, coon you'll get a more generic nano which would be useful.

[Josephina]

I don't see anything wrong with having specialized nanos.

Well I do: I just don't like the reasoning behind them. For me professions should have a well defined theme around which their toolset is built. This toolset should be sufficiently good that it gives them an edge over some other professions, but not all, and puts them at a disadvantage against others. Creating all or nothing rock-paper-scissor nanos to compensate for a crappy toolset and weird game mechanics is not the way FC should continue trying to fix gimp profs imo, absorbs are a part of the toolset of those professions and their toolset should be respected, imo again. Also creating tailored nanos to compensate for other imbalances is the wrong way to go imo: imagine what the game would look like if FC had chosen to nerf the clearly overpowered GA, instead of giving the paper against fixer's rock to NTs...

For at the monent I don't see anyway for fc to make fixer such a profession that it would have a balanced fight with fixer toolset against the profs which I mentioned.

There's an unlimited amount of different paths for FC to boost fixer performance , going from single OP items (adding a noobstick smg version would do the trick as well for example) to actually thought through toolset changes. What I tried to establish in the OP was that the fixer toolset is infact lacking in both pvm and pvp, if the FC devs ever come to accept that as well, then there is finally some room for real improvement.



Your absorb hacking suggestion would allow fixers to kill keepers and adventurers, engineers/NTs and top enfs would still be in a different league as fixers. Most other profs would be largely unaffected, except the nanomages under them.

A simple example that would give the same end result in performance, but limited to changes and additions to the existing fixer toolset is the following:
- SL team damage buff for +150 (upgrade of pre-SL augmentation cloud nanos)
- Changing the entire Dark Kin line to chemical damage (taking the poison perks out of the toolset: fixers would then be energy/projectile/chemical damage)
- Increasing the chance of damage change in Numb to 90%, so this perk actually works like a damage buff instead of a damage debuff.

This works both in pvm and pvp and gives fixers improved support and a minor increase in damage in both. I also think it would give fixers the edge in fights against keepers and advies (while kiting ofc ).

And if you transfer cancel coon nano to -> cancel all absorbs, be it normal, corrupted flesh, nm edition, coon you'll get a more generic nano which would be useful.

I think the way absorbs currently work is that any tick/nano whatever sets the current absorbs to a certain amount, the nanos only have a duration to make sure that lower level versions don't overwrite the absorbs (cocoon getting reset by the absorb aura of advies would be a great joke ). So if you wanted an effective "absorb hack" you'dd need a hostile nano with higher stacking order as cocoon that resets all absorbs to 0 and that stays in their NCU for a few seconds. Very useful in pvp, but still completely useless in pvm and I think fixers need love in both parts of the game

[Josephina]

I've updated the OP with the now useful short hot.

I plan on adding Refactor Matrix if someone discovers a good use for it. Currently I don't see it filling any role that SD and virus scanners don't take already.

About Greater Preservation Matrix: up till now I've worked with absolute numbers which are easier to interpret. I'dd like to do the same for GPS, but because it's dependant on hp this one would vary a bit. I'dd like to assume about 14k hp for pve and about 10k for pvp purposes, is this in line with your experiences?

[-Bugsplat]

Not much use against docs. They just recast, as I pointed out in my thread about it.

Only good for running away, which is what I'd recommend if you find yourself in a dark alley with a doc ahead of you.

[Zarnii]

All you have to do is play one to understand. And unfortunately, FC staff don't. I cannot think of any other reason for the imbalance.

I just accept it and realize they will either have someone on the team pick one up at 220 and say hmm... I'm not as good as I'd like to be, or at least they don't make it worse.

[Josephina]

All you have to do is play one to understand. And unfortunately, FC staff don't. I cannot think of any other reason for the imbalance.

I just accept it and realize they will either have someone on the team pick one up at 220 and say hmm... I'm not as good as I'd like to be, or at least they don't make it worse.

Well, some dev (I think it was Silirrion) has said in the past that they were aware that not every profession was as "well rounded" as others. In case of fixers this could mean that they were aware that fixers suck at soloing (30minutes playtime with a lovechild and 30m with a fixer should suffice to realize that), but that in teams there are no issues (the working as intended bull**** FC devs have flung around for years). Somehow being a NCU/runspeed totem would make up for all fixers issues.

Because team dynamics are a lot more intricate than soloing, it is a lot harder to say with absolute certainty that a class has difficulties there. Hence many developers in many games have used the argument that classes are balanced for teams: they avoid having to deal with the issue and dev fanboys usually assault the people who dare claim that this "team balance" is nothing more than a petty excuse.

What I tried to establish in the OP was that currently fixers all around plain suck, which would make the developers argument of only being "not well rounded" void. I think I've done a good job of that for readers that know and understand the game well (people with solid experience with one profession and with teaming in AO + a good understanding of game mechanics). But what I've failed to do was make the argument dummyproof (someone with little understanding of game mechanics, but a willingness to accept and listen to reason: the mystical developer that reads these forums ). AO is just too much a collection of all kinds of random thrown together stuff, that it's impossible to make a dummyproof argument without taking absolutely everything into account and doing a 1000 page essay about it.

[sturmalfar]

Josephina, I have read your ENTIRE original post 3 times. I still disagree that fixers SUCK at soloing... maybe in comparison to other professions... but other than some really tough mobs (like the Keeper in the Ado brain quest), I've been able to solo a great deal of game content. Maybe I need to kite here and there, but as my main is a 174 fixer, and I greatly enjoy soloing. Perhaps I'll change my tune (and perhaps my toon as well when I get to 210+, but atm... life as a fixer is pretty great.

[-Bugsplat]

205-(acquisition of SWSXI) is a rough leveling period.

At 220, though, I can go afk and come back against a lvl 250 mob and be just fine. On my two 220 avatars, there's a lot of work involved in not dying. Granted, they OD the hell out of my fixer, but the passive healing of HoT plus Evades under normal PvM circumstances is a beautiful thing we seem to take for granted quite often.

I will admit that I do have a major benefit in being purely built for soloing, though. No/rare PvP or many teams for me on test.

[Pafpuf]

Josephina, I have read your ENTIRE original post 3 times. I still disagree that fixers SUCK at soloing... maybe in comparison to other professions... but other than some really tough mobs (like the Keeper in the Ado brain quest), I've been able to solo a great deal of game content. Maybe I need to kite here and there, but as my main is a 174 fixer, and I greatly enjoy soloing. Perhaps I'll change my tune (and perhaps my toon as well when I get to 210+, but atm... life as a fixer is pretty great.

You read the original post 3 times but you somehow missed the title all 3 times ?

A "guide" as to why Title Level 7 Fixers are not cutting it (warning: very long post)

[Josephina]

Josephina, I have read your ENTIRE original post 3 times. I still disagree that fixers SUCK at soloing... maybe in comparison to other professions... but other than some really tough mobs (like the Keeper in the Ado brain quest), I've been able to solo a great deal of game content. Maybe I need to kite here and there, but as my main is a 174 fixer, and I greatly enjoy soloing. Perhaps I'll change my tune (and perhaps my toon as well when I get to 210+, but atm... life as a fixer is pretty great.

"... maybe in comparison to other professions..."
What else am I going to compare against?

"...Maybe I need to kite here and there, but as my main is a 174 fixer, and I greatly enjoy soloing. ..."
As Pafpuf pointed out in giant bold letters, this thread isn't about tl5 fixers, but about their tl7 brethren.

"... Perhaps I'll change my tune (and perhaps my toon as well when I get to 210+, but atm... life as a fixer is pretty great. ..."
My personal advice here, don't gain another level on that fixer ever again. You don't need to be tl7 to enjoy the game. Certainly not when playing a fixer and you can just continue enjoying yourself while being fixerish at 174. If you really want a tl7 toon, then roll a lovechild.

You can also scope around a bit on auno.org and look at nanos and perks: compare how some other professions improve from tl5 to 220 and then decide for yourself whether you wish to continue leveling or not.

As for the reasons why fixers suddenly drop off as you get nearer to SL-levels: personally I blame Gaute's incompetence, Gaute's stubborness and Gaute's (+FC's) policy of denial. Working like intended.

[Doctorhyde]

As for the reasons why fixers suddenly drop off as you get nearer to SL-levels: personally I blame Gaute's incompetence, Gaute's stubborness and Gaute's (+FC's) policy of denial. Working like intended.

That is like blaming a child's abusive parent when the child grows into an adult and becomes abusive themselves.

How long has it been since Gaute determined the fate of any profession? FC has had time to fix the many various problems from that generation. They've tried ... but so far failed (I have hopes that Shades are about to get real fixes in 18.0 instead of bandaids, but there is no way to be certain). Enough time has passed. We can't blame Gaute anymore. He started the downfall perhaps, but there are other people in charge now who have had time to fix things.

And Fixers -have- seen dramatic help in the last patches, we're not as bad off as we were. But there is still work to be done.

[Josephina]

I realize you can't put all the blame for AOs current issues with Gaute, the subsequent dev teams are to blame as well for their denial and inaction. Apparently it's against company policy for FC devs to admit one of them made a mistake. Because of this, FC has always had the habit of letting issues fester for a few years before admitting or facing them. This company culture puts a large responsibility on the initial creator of a problem.

In case of fixers, FC can't suddenly give them a good profession-unique perkline or an SL update of nanos, because that would mean admitting that the profession was in fact not working properly before. When I have to point my finger at someone for all fixers' woes after SL, it's still at Gaute that I'll point and not any of the other leads. I know it's not 100% rational to put most of the blame with someone from 5 years ago, but I'm doing it anyways . (I also seriously dislike the course that was taken with SL, making maybe me even more biased against Gaute )


The dramatic help for fixers you talk about, is only for the highest levels unfortunately. The leveling fixer in between the old good levels and before the DB nanos (tl6 and low tl7), are still mostly stuck with what little they got from SL. That now castable team short hot is still twice as good as the previous one in line: are short hots meant to be an essential part of the fixer toolset or are short hots meant to be toys now? ...
Top level and equip fixers still need love, mostly in the form of somekind of purpose (damage or a ton of support or a mixture of both) imo, but not nearly as much as the levelranges that fell out of the boat with both SL and the DB nanos, imo again.

edit: the explanation to AO's Age of Adventurers: http://www.thenoobcomic.com/index.php?pos=329