LOL garzu, like the attitude.
But theroticaly, if FC actually changes this, will you still play or will you cancel that day??
LOL garzu, like the attitude.
But theroticaly, if FC actually changes this, will you still play or will you cancel that day??
Xeni - Buvez engagé, buvez Mecca-Cola !!
Mimic:The Essential Nanos
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I have a level 89 trader, didn't PVP much but I can understand why other professions don't like to fight against a trader. The problem is, if Funcom does nerf Divest/Plunder it will seriously hurt Traders in PVM (I wonder if anyone of the other profs care at all about this). Cz or Cosmik once stated that's a problem for the game engine to find out if the target is a player or a monster (PVP/PVM) and so you can't simply seperate the effect of the nano.
Probably Funcom will utterly screw things up when trying to solve this.
Plunders have 190% resist rate, I have lots of problems casting it on monsters already and I doubt it's easy to land on an experienced PVP player that raised Nano Resist. Also while the attack time of the nano is fast, the recharge is slow and I really can't believe someone will let a trader ladder up on himself in a PVP battle (which would take a few minutes).
And while Divest/Plunder is very effective in PVP, it does almost ZERO effect in PVP. Ok, it raises your attack skill, but the increase in damage/crits is very small if you fight red/orange monsters. The skill reduction has absolutely no effect on the monsters, they cast the same nanos still and do the same damage to you. You have to constantly calm a monster in PVP (if you solo) and heal up because the traders shotguns are so slow (that's why we need crits so bad). And the damn divest/plunders only last 3 minutes so you are in a constant struggle to keep them running, especially when you laddered up. Don't think that the power that traders have does not come for a price.
Plunders have 190% resist rate, I have lots of problems casting it on monsters already and I doubt it's easy to land on an experienced PVP player that raised Nano Resist.
Did you even read this thread?
You can max nano resist, get all the nano resist items in game, fully implant nano resist and run at 100% defensive, then you MIGHT have a chance to resist a plunder.
because the traders shotguns are so slow
Shotguns range in speed from ultra-fast (ithaca) to average (Vektor/HD). I am not familiar with any shotguns that are considered slow.
X3s are around the same speed as vektor, krutt and homedefender but i never hear any complaints about them being slow.
And the damn divest/plunders only last 3 minutes so you are in a constant struggle to keep them running, especially when you laddered up. Don't think that the power that traders have does not come for a price.
this thread isn't about Tarders in PvE.
It's about PvP... and only PvP.
Only a gimped enf cant kill a trader at lvl 200. Ask Hirum or whoever else and they'll tell you the same.Originally posted by Wo "Caol" Ha
Why would you flame him? He's completely right. And I know a thing or two about PvP. Go on. Give me your best shot.
Half
Look, soldiers and MPs have a tough time killing me, but other profs can smoke me. Here's what happened to me in 2ho against Foxter. Note I was self-buffed at the time.Originally posted by Nothinman
totally agree, I have had traders tell me they are too powerful and they look on most proffesions as a joke.
I've said it before and i'll say it again, in 200 levels of steady pvp with my soldier, and 150 with my mp.. i never killed a trader. ( only once cause he screwed up )
Attacked by Foxter (lvl 160ish agent, I'm lvl 200)
You begin casting divest ...
Foxter hits you for 2600 AS damage
Foxter hits you for 1700 damage, critical hit!
Your target counters ...
Foxter hits you for 1700 damage, critical hit!
RECLAIM
The other day I was testing NR with a doc that had 970 NR. It took out my entire nano pool to stick divest and plunder on her. She resisted my divest (100% NR nano) 5 times in a row. What am I gonna do when my drains get nerfed and I see a doc in 2ho, run?
Half
You begin casting divest ...
Foxter hits you for 2600 AS damage
Foxter hits you for 1700 damage, critical hit!
Your target counters ...
Foxter hits you for 1700 damage, critical hit!
Um, if you have less than 6k HP, you can't get AS for 2600.
And if you only have 6k HP at 200, thats pretty weak.
The other day I was testing NR with a doc that had 970 NR. It took out my entire nano pool to stick divest and plunder on her. She resisted my divest (100% NR nano) 5 times in a row.
Was she running at 100% defensive?
My unbuffed attack rating at lvl 200 is 800ish, even lower with evade/NR implants in. With all shotgun implants, the max I can self-buff my attack to is 1260ish. With defensive imps that falls to 1160. I'm sure a level 180 enf can beat that atk rating with challenger unless you're supergimped.Originally posted by Sherrman
Enforcers with challenger running (and 2 minutes of shutdown) can get a max of +304. Wow, at lvl 180+ an enforcer can get almost as much buff bonus as any 100+ trader, even if they do have to deal with nano shutdown to do it.
Half
Here's my fight with a lvl 190+ NT:Originally posted by North
Comes from a person who obviously doesn't have any clue about balance issues that this game has at the moment.
I would agree with you, if this game did not have few professions that can press a button once to win a battle.
There is different fighting someone with a chance of winning, instead of no chance what so ever.
I divest
he dumps specials on me and gets me to 50% hp
Crown of frost
Now I gotta jump to another hotbar cause I'm debuffed by -115.
I use a lower plunder on him to go around CoF.
I cast a higher divest over the one already running.
(by this point i'm at 40-50% hp, but now NT's dmg is cut short and he cant recast CoF)
I cast the final plunder over the low ql plunder, to a point where i can return to my original hotbar.
I heal up, nano drain, heal, nano drain, heal
go full aggro
dump specials and waste the NT.
1 button against an NT? I think not.
Half
Ask any lvl 200 opifex trader if they have 6000 hp+ wearing a set of so8s (Yeah, i like my 1119 evade-clc). My unbuffed HP is 5500. (no i don't have a pair of 200+ hp rings either ). Whatever the numbers are (2500, 2600 whatever) the point is a good alpha will wipe me out before i even finish casting 1 drain. (Didn't you know traders are squishy?)Originally posted by Miir
Um, if you have less than 6k HP, you can't get AS for 2600.
And if you only have 6k HP at 200, thats pretty weak.
Was she running at 100% defensive?
The doctor was at 100% defensive and she resisted almost every drain i threw at her. If she had init debuff running on me and chain Dotted me, I have zero chance of survival.
The fact is most traders can't handle more than 500 damage a round in a PvP fight because our heals suck.
EDIT: With my NR at 870ish and at full def, I countered my own plunders 10 times out of 11, go figure.
Half
Last edited by Halfdeck; Oct 2nd, 2002 at 21:12:05.
poor trader, lost his/her nanopool.. but got divest and plunder both in trough this nanoresist thus rendering the doc defenseless and quite harmless. (with the exception of the 2 dots that are likely ticking away at your hp)The other day I was testing NR with a doc that had 970 NR. It took out my entire nano pool to stick divest and plunder on her. She resisted my divest (100% NR nano) 5 times in a row.
The fact that plunder got past this NR is evidence that NR needs to be looked upon closely and fixed.
the way i see it, it should be I M P O S S I B L E.... to get a 190% nanoresist nano past 970 nanoresist unless you have at least 1.2k attackskill on the nano.
the actual resistance here should be (NR+defmods)x190%
defmods like the one from "ring of luck - defensive" and high end token boards, but also the one from your agg-def bar... (+100 at full def and -100 at full agg is it?)
so if on full agg... real resist = 870x1.9 = 1653
if on full def.... 1070x1.9 = 2033.
should a nano EVER get trought this?
Is someone still saying nanoresist works well?
keep in mind... this is for the plunder, the doc is already debuffed a long way from his normal nanos on account of divest.
nanoresist is obviously very random... a huge nanoresist is no guarantee that a trader half your level wont debuff you to uselessness.
there is also no guarantee that the trader will succeed... but drains can be recasted fast enough and as I said... one lucky shot does it.
the only profession without a nanoresist buff that can reasonably be expected to have some protection against this are docs..
and this is because the init debuff will dramatially hurt the traders casting speed thus making every counter really painful to the trader.
Edit: If I got any numbers or game mechanic formulas wrong please post a correction to them
Stol, what is your NR?
Half
Doc might be debuffed out of CH and a few other nanos with a single divest, but I assure you, even with the top divest/plunder running, a doc can still heal himself for 800 hp.Originally posted by Stol
keep in mind... this is for the plunder, the doc is already debuffed a long way from his normal nanos on account of divest. Until I can land the second drain, I'm not in the clear.
nanoresist is obviously very random... a huge nanoresist is no guarantee that a trader half your level wont debuff you to uselessness.
there is also no guarantee that the trader will succeed... but drains can be recasted fast enough and as I said... one lucky shot does it.
Nano resist is random eh? How come I only land 1 plunder out of 11 tries when I try draining myself? lol
The recharge time on the drains isn't insignificant, although the nano is insta cast. Also keep in mind each counter costs me 470 nano. In some battles, by the time I get countered 2 or 3 times I'm dead. Especially in 2ho, if a target counters a drain, I usually don't recast.
On a different note, its way easier for a soldier to get neo than a trader because 1) most traders only have AS and fling as specials unless you use flash (and I can't unless I trash some tradeskills I use for making carb, eggs, whatever) 2) most traders are forced to pvp in 2ho/Camelot since theres almost no one willing to fight in the arenas (maybe for a good reason or mind trip who knows) 3) In mass fights, I spend more time chain AOE rooting and draining opponents than actually unloading on them -- while soldiers on my side are getting their alphas in 4) The opposite side usually try to gank the trader or doc first.
No whine cause I don't care about titles.
Half
Last edited by Halfdeck; Oct 2nd, 2002 at 21:43:10.
I have posted statistics about NR in quite a few threads in here and PvP Conflict forum. I have a very good feel how it works at higher end with full defence or full aggro. Only thing I did not bother testing was middle aggro.poor trader, lost his/her nanopool.. but got divest and plunder both in trough this nanoresist thus rendering the doc defenseless and quite harmless. (with the exception of the 2 dots that are likely ticking away at your hp)
The fact that plunder got past this NR is evidence that NR needs to be looked upon closely and fixed.
the way i see it, it should be I M P O S S I B L E.... to get a 190% nanoresist nano past 970 nanoresist unless you have at least 1.2k attackskill on the nano.
the actual resistance here should be (NR+defmods)x190%
defmods like the one from "ring of luck - defensive" and high end token boards, but also the one from your agg-def bar... (+100 at full def and -100 at full agg is it?)
so if on full agg... real resist = 870x1.9 = 1653
if on full def.... 1070x1.9 = 2033.
should a nano EVER get trought this?
Is someone still saying nanoresist works well?
keep in mind... this is for the plunder, the doc is already debuffed a long way from his normal nanos on account of divest.
nanoresist is obviously very random... a huge nanoresist is no guarantee that a trader half your level wont debuff you to uselessness.
there is also no guarantee that the trader will succeed... but drains can be recasted fast enough and as I said... one lucky shot does it.
the only profession without a nanoresist buff that can reasonably be expected to have some protection against this are docs..
and this is because the init debuff will dramatially hurt the traders casting speed thus making every counter really painful to the trader.
I had 1016 NR (2x Notum Focus, 3x Implants, 2x Fractured Sanity)
Just to give you general idea, how it works on full defence:
NR works very well. The thing is that it was probably never ment to counter 100% nanos, as you would need nearly 1500-2000NR to make the chance of countering them.
below 100% = lands easily 1-3 tries usually
100% = lands between 1-5 tries (as long as your opponeent has 700+ in nano skills)
110% = lands between 3-8 tries (it was very hard to get high level NT nukes landing on me)
110%+ = this is the area where you start resisting more. I have gone through quite few duels with traders when they did not manage to plunder me, and others where they manage to plunder me withing 30 seconds. It just depends how lucky you are, but you do have better then 50% chance of countering it.
NR works very well, there is absolutely no reason to change it. If you would change it, it would mean that any profession with offensive nanos would be next to useless.
The only way to improve nano resist is to tweak those nanos that have redicilously low or high nano resist at the moment. FC should NOT touch the NR skill itself.
could you then explain why someone with over 1k NR should have 0% chance to resist a drain at full agg?
at full def it should be Impossible to land a 190% nano
Derrien, because when you are on full aggro you receive a huge init bonuses. When you go all defensive your receive evade and resist bonuses and gain negative factor to your inits. However, it is not 0% chance, it is just a small chance when on full aggro vs. higher chance when on full defence.
[QUOTE(and for the record, the trader heal was fixed, not nerfed. Traders were supposed to trade their health to heal their teamates with team heals. those heals were never intended to be as good as doc heals with the trader healing himself more then he took away) [/B][/QUOTE]
"the Caster pays for this by SLOWLY loosing SMALL amounts of health" Quoted Descrition of Delayed health payment. read the DELAYED!!!!
yes i agree, that dhp was to powerful before..i totally agree there so dont get me wrong. however...before i could fire up a dhp, and was hit for like 38 points of damage for following 10 secs or so..
that was also quite powerful. NOW: i cant use the same heal for 15 Sec, i get hit for 184x5 in a 5 Sec period!! yes its a team heal but consider that this has killed Traders totally in Pvm. Sure they are allmighty in pvp ( as all you say, i must be crappy since i just get whacked all the time) also, According to FC traders are a healing class, sure we can heal more than an enf. We are supposed to be as good as either the MA or Adv. and were nowhere even close! even fixers HOT is better than an Traders heal, so..Fire up ones Dhp is VERY seldom that a trader does, only is very DIRE DIRE situations where the Doc cant keep up.
and also take in consideration that healing in bossroom is 90% of the time instant Agro and with Traders shotty crits...and a 5 sec DOT that hit you for more than you can heal...your dead. So ..
YES Traders are more on Par with other classes due to the dhp Nerf in PVP.
but are so Killed in PVM thanks to that. they only need to lower the damage inflicted so that the heal actually is higher than the DOT then it would work, now its the other way around.. i loose more health than i heal so its totally useless in single missions. Yes i know its a "team" heal, but its also the only Self heal a trader can use other than the plunder heal, which required a mob to actually plunder that doesnt resist it!!!!
halfdeck, you are straying from my point here...Stol, what is your NR?
given similar NR and attackers nanoskills... should ransack even have a chance of landing, thats my point!
I was not using my own experiences for the previous post but rather i quoted someone elses, but the fact that you mentioned you even got ransack past your own 870ish NR on full def is also evidence NR needs a fixup.
What im saying is that you should be greatly rewarded for having high NR, but if in the end you are still sitting there with both deprive and ransack on you whats the point?
Wasting the traders time? keep in mind you will need a lot more time yourself to kill something/someone when you are at full def and already deprived.
But, most importantly!
I do believe nanoresist needs some work
I personally believe a flaw is for example: a 190% resistmod nano creeping past 870 NR... even if you have to try 10+ times to do it sometimes.
btw halfdeck, where you having your deprive running at the time? would make quite a difference dont you think?
especially when the nano itself is the type of nano that only needs to land once to cripple the target for 3 minutes.
against direct damage nanos this kind of NR would be a rock solid defense, but against ransacks it happens to be a rock waiting to crumble at the slightest whim of some random number generator.
And about NT nukes...
they should all be below 100% resistmod!
that most NT nukes have higher resistmod than deprive is ridiculous considering the impact each nano delivers.
Last edited by Stol; Oct 3rd, 2002 at 10:54:49.
Stol, my guess is your NR is 156, you're level 120 and you're just throwing numbers around. Go max your NR and fully implant it and fight some traders instead of playing with your calculator -- then come back and tell me NR is broke. If you're lvl 200ish with 900ish NR and on RK1 give Halfdeck /tell in game and we'll see if NR is fubar.
1 out of 11 resist rate on plunder isnt good enough ? By the time I get 2-3 counters I'm dead.
Half
lmao Piercingevil
21 votes right now, and only 8 pick trader?
Cmon, theres more whiners out there. Hurry up and rock the vote.
mercatura -ae f. [trade, traffic; merchandise]
Moved off-world and found real tradeskills...along with many other things
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