Julian Redfire vs Tigress

[Foodor]

I remember that I saw thread about comparing those two. I did search but didn't find that thread. If someone find it please post link here. If I remember wrong and that thread is not exist is anyone made that kind of calculation?

I got that staff yesterday and with quick look it will do more damage/1 hit but it is without special. and I'm not yet convinced which one is better, melee or ranged.

Foo

[egadsrk2]

No contest, the bow. Get the staff, upload your nano. Only takes 20 minutes.

Then never use it again. Why?

-Cant hotswap, gotta use inventory/equip panels.
-No specials.
-No range
-Melee init is stupid expensive and if you've tigressed it up you don't have any.

[Foodor]

I'm sorry to say this but that was most confuced reply I have ever seen.

It it not nano it is just a staff and yes it is possible to swap

what you mean "never use it again"?

-No specials.

true. that is one thing what exercised me.

[Klodovik]

It's good, but it's not great. To be comparable to Tigress (DD wise), it should have some kind of damage proc.

[ASM1]

I'm sorry to say this but that was most confuced reply I have ever seen.

It it not nano it is just a staff and yes it is possible to swap

what you mean "never use it again"?



true. that is one thing what exercised me.

The staff has an attack pet buff which is uploaded to your programs when you first right click the staff. To use this buff you must have either staff or SOZ equipped, more likely Soz therefore, it is possibly true that you'd never use the staff again, I don't.

As for the Melee vs ranged. If you like getting in a mobs face, melee is for you, if you prefer to be out of harm's way a bit then ranged = win. Having been Melee as a nanomage MP I can say that it didn't suit my playstyle (enfs with gobs of HP yes but not a squishy little MP like I was at the time) Ranged on the other hand I have enjoyed far more (both with pistols, and now tigress) Your Mileage May Vary.

[Dancingrage]

What these guys are saying is that if you're invested that heavily into the Tigress you won't get much out of the staff.

That said, if you have enough +crit stuff, it'll be not as far off as some would like us to think because 4k crits will start to catch up to the initial AS pretty quickly. ELLTS or VTE for start, then popping on all the other +crit stuff out there too and watch damage start piling up rather quickly.

Redfire staff has no specials, yup, that's true. but you can't fire a ranged weapon on the move like you can swing a melee weapon. Tigress can't support a proper full-on crit setup without risking losing enough AR on it to start missing more than you crit. If you're really dedicated to the mixed build (which probably stopped about the time 2hb got the redfire staff) then you probably have split IP in both ranged and melee init. Don't worry, you're never getting EITHER weapon down to 1/1 so that's not too terribly big a deal.

[viandante]

What these guys are saying is that if you're invested that heavily into the Tigress you won't get much out of the staff.

That said, if you have enough +crit stuff, it'll be not as far off as some would like us to think because 4k crits will start to catch up to the initial AS pretty quickly. ELLTS or VTE for start, then popping on all the other +crit stuff out there too and watch damage start piling up rather quickly.

Redfire staff has no specials, yup, that's true. but you can't fire a ranged weapon on the move like you can swing a melee weapon. Tigress can't support a proper full-on crit setup without risking losing enough AR on it to start missing more than you crit. If you're really dedicated to the mixed build (which probably stopped about the time 2hb got the redfire staff) then you probably have split IP in both ranged and melee init. Don't worry, you're never getting EITHER weapon down to 1/1 so that's not too terribly big a deal.

You can have the best crit setup with Tigress and a decent AR too. You need three crits for a normal AS, even if you hit with it each 60 seconds it still adds lots of damage.

Both weapons have the same damage so at the same speed there won't be any difference. Bow also has fling shot, an extra hit each ... 12-17 seconds? , and it can crit too.

You can't fire when running but you can hit from distance, and specials do hit on the run.

A well equipped 1hb MP can be paired with me in PVM DD, sometimes doing more and sometimes less. But I have yet to see a red fire user than can beat me. I am a bow MP now, but I can swap to the shield just right clicking on it.

[kuznechik]

tigress is ranged.
That means you can hit things earlier than your melee counterpart.
That also means you're getting your inits boosted by snipers' friend.
Fling is every 12 seconds for Rockjook.
Aimshot was "once every room and I'm tanking stuff in there after it" - that generally translates to each 20 seconds or so.

I simply can't see redfire staff catching up to tigress DD. Tho I must admit that it's nice option. It's more of adv' "second best" approach, when you aren't excel in DD, but getting enough of other nice options. And being "easy way" makes it popular aswell (and it's good for soloing )

[Chrys]

2hb MPs can't have both best PVM offense and defense on the same build, right? The game is about choices right?

[kuznechik]

2hb MPs can't have both best PVM offense and defense on the same build, right? The game is about choices right?

And "iWin" button is reserved for NTs! (c) Schloops

[Foodor]

thanks guys. these were answers what I was looking for

I'll stay in tigress and shield in bs

Foo

[egadsrk2]

Foodor, if you keep the staff in a hotbar, it will not equip with a single key press. Failing that, a single right click. It'll just keep trying to upload a nano. I've always personally defined hotswapping as something done with a single action. To swap the staff in combat, you must have your inventory open, your wear window open, and drag-n-drop the staff. My wording in the original post has confused you, apparently. It didn't confuse anyone else.

This one difference makes the staff worthless in PVP in my opinion, where one might swap between shield and staff. You lose too much screen realestate, and too much time in a fight. They have identical wield stats, probably because the designer intended us to use them together. Me, I can't see the point. The bow and shield does this as intended, quickly, effortlessly.

The tigress has 2 perks, 2 on the move specials, and a nice solid hit to it. The staff has zero on the move specials, and a very similar hit with a very superior attack rating if you wear extremely generic MP Gear (Read: Nano buffing crap.). As the 17.x series has shined brightly on the MP's, fewer endgame MP's are still setup in that old dependable nanoskills setup. Long before LE, the very upper minority of MP's were all geared for the best attack rating they could get, but now it is far more common to see an MP geared for attack rating rather than nano nonsense.

Personally, my MP wears zero items outside of the Implants panel that exist to buff nanoskills. If anything does buff nanoskills, its equipped because it buffs something else that I care for more, and the nanos that may be buffed are there because I cannot choose for them to be not there. My previous build was around CM independance - very high nanoskills. This was prior to Lost Eden. My current build is around Ranged Inits, Critical Hits without Penalty, and Bow attack rating.

Oh. And my Tigress is 1/1 full def. (No Crit scope.)

It's worth noting however, that while I often cast The Shield of Zset, I very rarely actually use it. Last thing I want is to be viewed as a 'Shieldnub', someone who is incapable of functioning without it. It's a useful tool in a few select situations. Anyone who uses it 24/7 and especially in PVM should be dragged out behind the chemical sheds and shot fair in the head for giving us as a whole a bad name. So completely unnescessary for PVM.

[Klodovik]

Last thing I want is to be viewed as a 'Shieldnub', someone who is incapable of functioning without it. It's a useful tool in a few select situations. Anyone who uses it 24/7 and especially in PVM should be dragged out behind the chemical sheds and shot fair in the head for giving us as a whole a bad name. So completely unnescessary for PVM.

You obviously have no clue about hardcore PvM soloing whatsoever. Merlin dragons must be your final reach, it seems.

[kuznechik]

You obviously have no clue about hardcore PvM soloing whatsoever. Merlin dragons must be your final reach, it seems.

I soloed 250 dragon with 1 tree! With tigress!

[Klodovik]

I soloed 250 dragon with 1 tree! With tigress!

Those red ones aren't realy that hard to solo. Try to solo creepy with bow and tree/volcano/whatever.

[Chrys]

I'm levelling a tl7 soldier to solo them!! xD ...with a healpet and mp on follow

[egadsrk2]

My final paragraph, upon re-reading it, came out as I didn't intend it.

I'm refering to MP's who keep the shield equiped at all times for PVM. There couldn't possibly be anything more useless. When I said the shield is useful in a few select situations, again I was refering to PVM. It has its place in PVM. Just not all the time. And there's a fair few MP's around who consider the shield their weapon. Standing around in flippin' inf missions just doing jack diddly squat.

I've used the shield to kill a few inferno challenges, and I popped the shield on once in Penumbra when I got over my head killing uhh... Vindicators. Had 7 of them chasing me. Could tank 4 outright without a shield. Needed the shield to survive those extra three.

[Chrys]

And there's a fair few MP's around who consider the shield their weapon. Standing around in flippin' inf missions just doing jack diddly squat.

Yeah. I guarantee you if I'm rolling inf mishes for my soldier and you join on your 210ish SoZ MP and don't put a fricking staff on, it's the last time you get invited to a mish from me, doesn't matter if we leave with a team of 5, I'd rather invite a tl6.

[kuznechik]

Yeah. I guarantee you if I'm rolling inf mishes for my soldier and you join on your 210ish SoZ MP and don't put a fricking staff on, it's the last time you get invited to a mish from me, doesn't matter if we leave with a team of 5, I'd rather invite a tl6.

If you ever find lvl210 SoZ MP - petition him straight away, he's dirty sploiter!

[Chrys]

If you ever find lvl210 SoZ MP - petition him straight away, he's dirty sploiter!

Pft you didn't expect me to actually check facts before shooting my mouth off did you? (okoke 215ish w/e )