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Thread: CoT Has Fallen...

  1. #41
    The problem is you are assuming the CoT is no longer in existence. I personally haven't seen anything to that effect. I still see Council applications in shops and when I get enough tokens, they give me an award. I see Clan guards in many locations including the gates of Athen where my little Omni guys get all shot up.

    The council was not often in session in the CoT building. Now, two members fled an investigation and the rest went home. I don't infer from this that the situation is any different than two months ago.

    True enough, Omni-Tek may ask for representatives from the Council to discuss things and nobody may show up. But, there are still the Pilgrim members, the New Dawn members, the Terra Firma members, and who knows how many others that are simply attending to their own membership at this time. We got two two guys on the run and the rest have ended their council session. I didn't hear anything about them deciding to break up.

    Rumors are flying, yes. But, you can't use rumor in an argument.

  2. #42
    The distinction between rumour and fact blurs when our only "true" source of information is the recent news posted on the main AO page. As stated earlier, the most recent article made it quite clear that the CoT is no more. Granted, it did qualify the probability of continuance by stating it is "highly unlikely" that it will reappear, but some of the more interesting points, of geolegal significance, are:

    - "Omni-Pol listed several high-ranking Council officials and delegates – including Radiman himself – on a wanted-list"

    Given that no body of criminal law exists to which we can refer, we have to wonder how the branding of “high-ranking” CoT officials as criminals affects their legitimacy as political representatives.

    - “the final collapse that has now led to…the dissolution of the guard force”

    Interesting, especially in light of the fact that CoT military personnel still patrol Clan areas. Lack of communication between FC devs and story writers, or an intentional mystery?

    - “Some say Radiman has been captured by the ICC”

    Why would the ICC “capture” the recognized leader of a recognized political faction? This implies that he is somewhat of a criminal.

    - “it is highly unlikely that [the Council] will ever rise again – at least not until the situation, and the Council itself, has changed dramatically.”

    How dramatic is this? Definitely has an aspect of literary foreshadowing that will undoubtedly evolve over the coming weeks.

    Urielpaladin: since the Treaty of Westphalia was singed in 1648, the recognition of a state’s rightful government has been a matter of recognition; if the people of the state and the aggregate diplomatic community recognize a government as legitimate, it matters little whether they are salient or hidden.

    I think we’ve been focusing too much on the implicit legal aspects of the situation; the body of laws of Rubi-Ka, and the ICC, are unavailable for us to reference. Even though I disagree with Bionitrous’ views regarding the continuance of the Clan government, we have no concept of how RK/ICC law treats exiled authorities. We thus have no option but to contextualize the argument in terms of the overall story; OT will not reoccupy the land, simply because that would be uninteresting and relatively boring. For the purposes of AO, the de facto “Council” still exists, notwithstanding that a de jure “Council” does not.

    The only OT insurgent ventures in Clan territory which are (most likely) currently taking place are: (i) the continued hunt for the Dust Brigade; and possibly, (ii) a hunt for the Council (even though I still like lilnymph’s suggestion that it should be the players doing the hunting). I doubt that we'll see a widespread military operation conducted, at least in the near future.

  3. #43
    Originally posted by Alamexis
    I doubt that we'll see a widespread military operation conducted, at least in the near future.
    I think it is quite possible OT might move at least some troops north, if for no other reason than to try and get the ICC to leave. We already know OT doesnt want the ICC on Rubi-Ka and I think any move on RK ordered by OT Prime probably will be against the ICC. I doubt OT prime takes the clans that seriously.

    hugs

    lilnymph
    Lilnymph - Clan Fixer - RK1
    lilnymph wrote on November 21st, 2003 08:01:01:
    You may take our postcount threads, but you will never take our FREEDOM!!!!!
    Originally posted by Cz
    The post count is mine! All mine! Mwahahahah!

    40.476190476190474% of me is a huge nerd! How about you?
    Style over Substance

  4. #44
    Strategically speaking, taking such a bold move against the ICC is not in OT's interest. It was OT's failure to adequately resolve the political situation that initially drew the ire of the ICC. Any military advance would be viewed as further exacerbating the existing tensions on the planet, thus legitimizing and thereby ensuring the continued presence of the ICC. OT wants to come across as the "good guys" in this dispute; engaging in political opportunism so soon, and without an urgent public safety reason, would certainly look terrible.

    You also have to look at it tactically. If OT forces march on Tir, they will effectively be fighting an impromptu alliance: ICC forces will fulfill their obligations and defend the territory against the invaders, and angry, angry Clanners will throw everything including the leets at their most hated enemy of all. OT had a difficult enough time maintaining its advantage through the RK civil wars. Imagine the carnage of fighting the Clans AND the ICC.

    The only way the ICC will leave (not including the use of force by Clan/OT) is if their mandate is fulfilled. Hence, peace on RK, or at least some form of political stability. Given that, at present, no negotiating counterparty exists for OT, it can't exactly accomplish either of those.

    I also don't think that OT would unilaterally take action against the ICC. It knows that no one (aside from the neuts, possibly) want these peacekeepers here. Being the one to take sole action would brand OT as aggressors, which would undoubtedly have repercussions far into the future. I think OT is quite content to sit on their hands and let the Clans or perhaps the DB take action against them first.

  5. #45
    Why should we want the ICC to leave? We have rights to the entire planet now, granted by ICC itself.
    "Yesterday we bowed before kings and bent our necks to emperors, today we kneel only before truth"

  6. #46
    Originally posted by Alamexis
    You also have to look at it tactically. If OT forces march on Tir, they will effectively be fighting an impromptu alliance: ICC forces will fulfill their obligations and defend the territory against the invaders, and angry, angry Clanners will throw everything including the leets at their most hated enemy of all. OT had a difficult enough time maintaining its advantage through the RK civil wars. Imagine the carnage of fighting the Clans AND the ICC.
    I agree that it wouldnt be in OT's interest to move north, I am mearly pointing out that legally they have the right to do so. Also I am guessing the ICC would be on dodgy legal grounds, attacking OT personel on a a planet OT are legally leasing.

    hugs

    lilnymph
    Lilnymph - Clan Fixer - RK1
    lilnymph wrote on November 21st, 2003 08:01:01:
    You may take our postcount threads, but you will never take our FREEDOM!!!!!
    Originally posted by Cz
    The post count is mine! All mine! Mwahahahah!

    40.476190476190474% of me is a huge nerd! How about you?
    Style over Substance

  7. #47
    Originally posted by lilnymph

    I agree that it wouldnt be in OT's interest to move north, I am mearly pointing out that legally they have the right to do so. Also I am guessing the ICC would be on dodgy legal grounds, attacking OT personel on a a planet OT are legally leasing.
    The legality of that lease is pretty much the basis for all the problems anyway. The ICC is the one who provided the lease and ultimately holds control over the lease. As we saw in OT's political manuevering, they did not prevent the ICC from coming, they just filed a complaint. The ICC is the ultimate deciding factor in this situation. OT is busy trying to find a good footing to argue with them legally to get off Rubi-Ka, but until they do that it would be best not to mess with the Peacekeepers.
    Clan fixer, Fourth Title

    Director of Information
    Analog Myth

  8. #48
    Actually, the "legality" of the Rubi-Ka Lease isn't in question. It's the primary controlling agreement governing Rubi-Ka. Its status as a valid and subsisting document was never in dispute. It was the legality of the Tir Accord that was debated, because of the "disappearance" of the CoT.

    And it was the blury legal status of the Tir Accord that formed the basis of our supposition that OT could legally move north to reoccupy CoT held land. If the Tir Accord is nulified, ALL RK land once again reverts to OT control, pursuant to the Lease. If the ICC peacekeepers fought the reoccupation, it would be them who are at fault, because, as lilnymph pointed out, they would be attacking the security force of the rightful occupants of the territory.

    OT has only two legal bases upon which to mount a challenge to the ICC presence: (i) that their mandate is fulfilled; and (ii) that its mandate is no longer applicable.

    Even though the ICC inevitably has to make the final decision to withdraw its forces, it has to respect its mandate on RK, which was to ease the political tensions and prevent a civil war. Given that, since the peacekeepers made planetfall, the political situation has degraded even further, they will be on RK for quite awhile.

    The applicability of the initial mandate is a quite different matter. If the ICC resolution specifically stated that they were to ensure political settlement between OT and the CoT, and if the CoT has or will dissolve, then, just like with the Tir Accord, the mandate loses its legitimacy. If the mandate was to maintain general peace and political/social stability, OT can still argue that the mandate is no longer applicable because, as we've seen thus far, the peacekeepers have proved to be targets of Clan anger. If a sufficient number of them are slaughtered, whether out of hatred or out of sport, the ICC will have no choice but to recall its remaining forces. OT qutie simply argues that it is the ICC who are the destabilizing influence.

  9. #49

    Question:

    Has Omni been compensated for their lack of revenue now they have lost part of the production process?

    Ani
    PLEASE, give use a simple YES or no answer as to whether or not the CoH chests can be opened

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