Black Market - From Envisioned List

[Teknolord]

Traders want access, agents wants access, soldiers and enforcers too, even docs coz they could sell illegal drugs?
Heck, why have ANY profession, let EVERYONE have what everybody else got!
WOOHOO!!! No to professions, let us all have the same!
[/sarcasm]

[Teknolord]

Give fixers their black market, as fixers are the black market(or the link to it)
Give MA's a secret dojo
Give docs a hospital, drug store, what ever
Give NT's Island of jobe (i have NO idea what that is, though)
Give soldiers and enforcers their military camps.
Give engineers their workbench or workshop (great idea by the way, grab this anyone, and see what can come out of it)
Give MP's a secret monastery, church, hell-pit, what ever to worship deamons and alike
Give bureucrats their offices where they have all sorts of communications.
Give agents access to some secret buildings, stuff, whatever, which makes them feel like James Bond(oock), or some spying stuff (e.g let them have access to some monitors of cities, places, whatever)
BUT LET THE FIXERS HAVE THEIR BLACK MARKET!
If your envy is larger than the range of you gun, GET YOUR OWN IDEAS INSTEAD OF WANTING ACCESS TO OURS!

[______________Scorus]

Originally posted by Teknolord

Why?
When did government and local official, PAPERMOVERS, go dodgy and use underworld contacts, markets etc?

bah..

Try and get something shipped in Mexico! I'm serious, I work in a library and there was someone in Mexico that was trying to send us some papers they wished to donate. You have no idea how many government officials that wanted to be bribed! The stuff sat in different warehouses for 2 years before they figured out that we weren't going to send them any money and it was just taking up their space. But if the stuff had been worth anything to anyone other than us, we would have had to pay or it would have been 'stolen' from the warehouse...

Scorus

[Teknolord]

..."go dodgy as an profession"... but if they did, that would make them.. guess? FIXERS!

Buuuut, i even know of nannys who do illegal stuff.... Are they considered as "black market people" too?

[_____________Alexion]

Originally posted by Windie
If you think FP'ed agents should be able to do EVERYTHING that the original professions do or if you think other profs should be able to FP, then that would be a reason to be allowed into the BM. I personally would oppose that idea tho.

More to the point, fixers have been pretty good about not whining... (check out some of the other profession boards to see what I mean) when we find something that would actually make us special, of course we cling to it. We're being positive and pushing for fixes rather than whining to death. Part of this, tho means wanting to have our little point of uniqueness... Thus most of us (from reading the posts) are opposed to agents getting in. If only there were a way to give them ~partial~ access I'd be all for that. Suggest a method

I never said that agents should be able to do everything when fp'd. There are very substantal penalties associated with it.

-2000 nano init. Forget about any combat casting
2.5x nano cost for any nano cast. Alot of nano's get written off from that, just impossible to cast.
Increased chance of resist and fumble. If you could combat cast this would hurt quite badly.
No engie or crats pets, most the new content nanos being added are uncastable by agents. Every patch where a new nano is added is another nerf for us.
-25 nano skills. Not a big deal.
(They change for AP and MP, but the nano skill penalties make the useless. No (or very few) agents use them.)

These are fair. This is only done so you understand we don't DO everything other profs do, and what we do is very heavily penalized. But we are adopting the appearance, and abilities, of other professions. The only way you can tell that its an fp agent is by appearance, but actually thats out of game knowledge. Not that anyone role play anyways.

So we appear to be a fixer. So we do what fixers do. That is what we do. We disguise ourselves. Can anyone give me a Role playing reason why we should not be able to disguise ourselves as fixers and go into the black market.

Ideas I've suggested to make this more difficult for agents is to require a higher line fp (an AP or MP: fixer) or a skill check (no clue based on what) that the black market dealer will "detect" our true nature and toss us out, kill us, whatever.

Give me a reason why an agent couldn't sneak into a black market. I again ask this of fixers that are saying NO MINE about black markets. Windie gave no reasons.

[Teknolord]

Priests can be some devils.
Docs can kill people they are supposed to heal/save
Mechanics can destroy cars they should fix.
So?
Even though any profession can appear or do other things than the profession allows/requires/can, you still ask to be FIXERS, because FIXERS are the black market.
Fixers can be agents too, we can even heal and do damage. Do fixers ask for same healing, combat etc, as other professions? Do fixers ask for same false profession abilities as agents, because fixers are supposed to be a shady type doing illegal stuff and thus can try to appear under false premisses? No.

Do remember, all arguements you guys give to have access to the BM as non-fixers, are arguements which can be used for aother professions to have same goodies as you...

What i REALLY dont understand, is why some people are so damn afraid and neeeeeeeeeeeeeeding to have access to something intended for fixers...

[Teknolord]

If you want access to the BM, go make yourself a fixer

[_____________Alexion]

Originally posted by Teknolord
BUT LET THE FIXERS HAVE THEIR BLACK MARKET!
If your envy is larger than the range of you gun, GET YOUR OWN IDEAS INSTEAD OF WANTING ACCESS TO OURS!

I do give many ideas for how to improve agents. Their on the agent boards, not here. This is about the black market.

Right now agents are riflemen and quasi-mission runners. We have no role playing use for any of our ablities. The ability to impersonate people and gain information has very few unique role playing abilities. But us disguising ourselves, impersonating fixers to sneak into places where we shouldn't be, is what we do. Let us do what we do.

Agents have no unique identity or useful skills as an agent. Our nanos blow. Simple fact, they do. We don't mind that because we can impersonate other classes and do what they do. And we love it. But this is our skill. It is to do what all other classes do, besides cast engineer and crat pets(1). So every time that a class gains a new ability and we are forbidden from using it (2) we are nerfed. We no longer can impersonate another class as well.

There are NO unique classes in AO. It was intentionally designed in that manner. There are very few race/class specific items. The are almost no unique nano abilities in the game. (3) It is just a varying in strengths and abilites. One class is stronger at a particular ability then another. Fixers are stronger at using the black market fine. Agents are willing to be weaker at it. It's what we do.

Alexion

(1) This was done for game balance, not RP reasons. MP pets have fairly short duration, why crat pets are much longer, why eng pets are permanent. If I could cast a good engie pet and it hangs around until I log, it gives me too much power. I agree with this.
(2) Most of the new content nanos cannot be cast by agents. It's just a tag in the code for the nano that checks against shown profession vs. true profession. All of the original nanos minus the pets were tagged shown profession. Most (if not all) the new nanos are tagged true profession. Thus we can't cast them.
(3) Adv can buff run : Fixers do it better. Adv and fixers can buff conceal : Agents do it better. Docs can buff str/sta/hp : Enf do it all in one nano. etc.

[_____________Alexion]

Originally posted by Teknolord
If you want access to the BM, go make yourself a fixer

Planning on it. Thats what the false/assume/mimic profession line does.

[_____________Alexion]

Originally posted by Teknolord

What i REALLY dont understand, is why some people are so damn afraid and neeeeeeeeeeeeeeding to have access to something intended for fixers...

I'm not afraid of not getting access to the black market. What I am afraid of is FC's changing it's direction to unique abilities from strengths and weakness. This is fine for most classes. But this paradigm will destroy the agent. The agent is built around having no (few) abilities. What we can do is use other peoples abilities. Every ability that another class gets that we can't do in an inferior method is another nerf for us. See previous posts for more details if you are confused.

[______________Thoram]

Alexion.

You ask why us fixers want to have the blackmarket to ourself?

I have read some reasons that answers your question, and after reading your post about that there is nothing in the game that make the agent an agent, I can give you one more.

There is nothing in the game that make the fixer a fixer. This BM will do that. It will give us the ability to rp our fixers in a way that it is stated in the char description.

I have friends that are agents and I love to team with them. their fp line makes them strong and versitile character. Offcourse there is a penalty in using the fp line nano, as this is a fp line. I know you accepted that as a reason, but you also mentioned something about that when a new nano gets out and a agent doing fp can't use it you are nerfed. this I dont understand. if a new MP nano is released then it is intended for the MP first, and maybe agent second.

When this BM gets out then it is for the fixers first, maybe agents second. I prefer it to be fixer only, but I am just one voice and Funcom will make the descision about this. In the envisioned text about the BM it states for fixers. It don't say anytihng about agent with FP line.

I can maybe accept that agents gain partial access. but only as to the location, layout and maybe other things. Not to actually do any business in the BM.

A BM is not a place that everyone knows exist. They don't know the location or what is being sold/bought there. If they hear about a BM by someone and they wish to know more, they can ask this person. I am very doubtful about the idea that anyone knowing the location or having access to a BM in RL would allow anyone else access to it. by doing so they would nerf themself out of a potential deal to make some cash. Rather they would act as middlemen and fix the deal.

That is the explanation I can give. If you are not happy about that and still need to have more reasons, look to someone else.

Let the BM be fixer only and you as a agent will not be nerfed for not being able to use it. you still have your fp line to become a fixer, only you will not get access to the BM. I dont see a big nerf there.

[Xaielao]

yes Yes YES!!!



These black markets.. placed in the grid and only accessable bye Fixer and Trader nano's.. will sell rare items (stuff that is in normal shops but have like a 5% chance of being in there.. like the SMG that is supposedly in shops but you never see it lol)

oh and the oft-talked about ILLEGAL STIMS!

We need illegal stims!

Ones that work like pills and such.. but higher level spells!

Or stims that give +10/20/50 bonuses.. but they would cost a pretty penny.

Need to equip that new helmet but your 15 points short? contact a fixer.. he'll hook you up.. for a price

[Xaielao]

THE BEST THING IS...


The nano's used to access the black market (an underground realm with dark alleys and cloaked figures) wouldn't be based on Matter Create!

But rather Time & Space!

[________________Crin]

Warning this is going to ramble a little

Originally posted by 7084
I think there will be a need to introduce new items. Dodgy items, that are better than their legal QL counterpart but a little less reliable.

How about dodgy items that subtract from your protection under the gas suppression in an area? If the item was equipped, you would have the full penalty and it would be additive with other dodgy items you were wearing. If an item was just being carried in a backpack, it would have half the effect. As your gas suppression level dropped you would of couse be open to PvP, but also have an increased chance of an NPC attacking you, and not be able to use shops and scan terminals. These would start off being mild but become severe as your protection got worse. The penalty would linger a while too, so you couldn't just hand your stuff to someone else, do your business, then get them back.

Another penalty for wearing a dodgy item would be that they couldn't be insured and are fragile(They fell off the back of a truck remember). If you died, they will not return to the reclaim terminal. Instead there is a chance that they would break and be destroyed, but if they didn't, an opponent could take them.

I can hear all the Fixers moaning right now. Or was that the unlocking of the safties on their maussers. "But wait", he says fearing for his life.

If these items were made less attractive than the real items, then there would be no reason why Funcom couldn't give us access to every rare item in the game. It would only be a matter of setting the appropriate penalties: gas suppression penalty, chance of breaking.

Another fun thing is that the ammount of penalty would be related to how visible the item was. Now that would explain why all the shady types wear trenchcoats

P.S. What this game really needs is some sort of faction system where it would go down the more you dealt with the BM, but would go up if you did missions for your side, or perhaps got your hands on illegal goods and turned them in. This would not just work for the Fixer but anybody who handled illegal goods.

Instead of three sides in the game, Clan, Omni and Neutral, you would have six. The normal three plus the fugitive versions of them. These would be people who still belong to their side but because their faction is so bad, they have no gas protection, pay higher prices at normal stores, and must avoid NPCs.

[Xaielao]

yea.. zoned to prison.. time depending on # of offences x QL of items bought/sold = minutes spent there.


If your a clanner.. your cell is spammed with Omni-propoganda "Omni is your friend" "Omni-Pol will protect you" "Use your new gun to kill a clanner!"

hehe

[_______________Intra]

Crin, I like the idea of items being non insurable... but if that is the case then the items themselves would have to be damn good to have such a penalty.

Fion "These black markets.. placed in the grid and only accessable bye Fixer and Trader nano's.. "

traders.. get your hands off it, if you want anything from the blackmarket to sell... get in touch with a fixer. we may stricke you a deal

fixers are the blackmarket. everyone has access to the black market because they have access to fixers.

Alexion...
I would be interested to see an fixer FP... I think even with your -25 nano skill you would still be able to cast out nanos at an ealrier level than most fixers can (lvl20 nano 180 in 3 dark blue skills)

anyway, my point is.. I think everyone should get there hands off it for now.. let fixers be fixers, and then when it is in game let the developers decide if agents get a go.. depending on how good it is, we may even just give it to you :P

[Downsizr]

Didn't saw this on the posts and I'd be glad to bring a new idea here...

When you are a Fixer cruising the BM (wherever it is) you'll end up looking for a very special good for a very special customer... maybe an enforcer that needs his next Support Beam, or another nice customer that is looking for an elusive Q150 item that just won't pop in mission terminals...

Then maybe you can have access to a BM mission terminal, where you will be able to be a lot more specific with the item reward.

Well in fact it won't really be a mission, but maybe the location of the item's owner... and well if you want to get this very item, then you'll have to... fix things.

So this mission booth would let you make a request for an item. You'll have different sliders to specify :

- quality
- type of item (armor, weapon, nano, ...)
- side or profession specific
- maybe a matching word so as to have a very precise selection

Then you could just ask for no special selection, or specify very precisely what you want.

The more you specify, the more it would be costly and/or difficult. Maybe having a high comp lit will let you specify different options too : at less than 300 comp lit you can just tweak item Q, not the type, and so on.

Asking a "mission" for an item should :
- cost a lot more than what general missions cost ;
- let you tune the item you are seeking with more and more precision when you grow in level ;
- give an assassination mission rather difficult (well, linked to the item Q of course).

This would give a very nice opportunity to enhance the game, bring fixers a new status for being able to get such specific missions, and let them get what their customers ask in a way that is really going with the BM idea.

[____________Ejeckted]

Originally posted by Trimus


Fion "These black markets.. placed in the grid and only accessable bye Fixer and Trader nano's.. "

traders.. get your hands off it, if you want anything from the blackmarket to sell... get in touch with a fixer. we may stricke you a deal

the above was my initial idea too,
bc right now traders have no unique way of RPing traders either.

Fixers, obtaining items from the black market,
who then pass them to Traders (at a markup) to resell.
This is what you'd call 'under-the-counter' merchandise.

in RL most people dont get thier pot direct from a
professional drugdealer, they get it from someone
more trusted . .

(easy to force the above situation with
profession-based 'nodrop' style trade restrictions)

[Xaielao]

I can somewhat agree with Gummi about the mission thing.. although I seriously think funcom will not make the blackmarket that complex.


However it reminded me.. before I cancelled my account I swear funcom was talking about new mission terminals that were based on the reward. Different terminals for armor, weapons, nano's, cloths, implants and such. Need armor go to the armor mission terminal..

or maybe it was a new slider to deturmine what general type of reward you were looking for.

Anyone else remember this? I don't remember where I heard it.. but I used to play on Test a lot and we heard about a lot of things before they happened...

[________________Crin]

Gummizluv,

You beat me to the mission idea. I was in the shower this morning and it hit me. After I got up off the floor and reattached the shower curtain, I came up with a new idea for the black market

Well now I see that Gummizluv has already posted it

Ok enough of the fun. The idea I had was a little different. You know when you get a mission, it is from some guy that has hacked into the network to find you. Well who is good at hacking in AO. In addition to getting items in the BM, the fixer should be able to get missions. The number of missions should be more and the ability to filter and search added. Now the fixer could do the missions OR sell them to other players.

The only down side to this would be that if Funcom comes up with a new mission interface, it probably should be available to everyone. The work around to this would be that the Fixer just gets more mission to pick from. Probably based on their computer lit skill.

Another fix to the mission terminals should also be done to prevent camping. Camping mission terminals is boring and doesn't add anything to the game. When a player asks for missions, show them all the missions they are going to get from that terminal for the next hour, all at the same time. If the player doesn't want any of the missions they can go do something else durning the down time. There is no need to force a player to sit at a terminal for an extended period of time.