Black Market - From Envisioned List

[_______________Karrd]

Fixers have been meeting at certain place(s) on rubi-ka for a little while now. I was thinking why not create a zone/area/small underground building that could only be reached with a fixer NanoFormula.

A place where the (majority) of black market trade could take place. I was thinking Sparta, but thats clan and not even in the game yet. Perhaps a neutral area.

*2cents*

[Blade / Silke X]

Ohh damn nice I can see it...a dark place...bellow ground...mm...lots of people....loud voices.....bidding..auctions...someone on teh ground who recently has been stabbed in the back...oohh meooow

[__________KirkWaters]

The Blackmarket should be Fixer only.

Every profession needs to be able to offer something no one else can. Fixers have nothing. Traders and 'crats _WANT_ access, I think Fixers _NEED_ access. I understand the logic behind some of the other classes being allowed, but the entire Fixer class is on the edge worthlessness. This would go a long way into making it viable again.

Traders should get something though. Just not the blackmarket. They are Traders, very adept at getting legitimate goods, and should get something similar but focused on legit goods. Maybe stores marked for wholesale only with cheaper prices?

One other wrinkle. Why not remove the Fixers immunity to attack while carrying illeagle goods? No indication, no flashing sign or anything, most PC's have no idea he can be attacked. But if they happened to know that Bob the Fixer is expected to make a major delivery to so and so, enterprising criminals could try to ambush him, and if they kill him can loot his corpse for the blackmarket items. Something would have to be done to prevent a new kind of grid camping though. Otherwise people would just hang out by the 'Exit' door of the blackmarket to kill Fixers. Fish in the barrel so to speak.

I do think the idea of 'prison' as punishment is a great one. But why not give Beuraucrats the ability to reduce or commute someone's sentence? Of course, they wouldn't have to do this for free .......

So then a caught Fixer can either wait it out, or call up a 'Crat to bail them out for a fee of course (unless they happen to be on friedly terms with the 'Crat.)

This simple relationship between these 3 classes could get interesting. It fosters roleplaying, and gives new dimension to some of the struggling classes. Imagine a PC run organization of Fixers to get the stuff, Enforcers to escort them to and from meetings, and 'Crats to bail them out if they get busted.

If the blackmarket is just another shop that other classes can access, all of these fun things would be pointless.

It's late, I rambled a bit.

[_______________Intra]

Hey Kirk,
I like your ideas about the fixer being able to be killed if he is carrying illegal goods. it would get even better if conceal started working around PCs.. sneaking through the backstreets of a city trying not to be seen.

... or even walking through normaly trying not to look guilty and hope no one takes a pot shot at you.

the camping of fixers would be reduced by having the location of the black market change randomly. so we get info from the underground as to where it is and others if they listen carefully can intercept the information.
but i do think that the info should be exceptionally difficult to come by.. with ALOT of decoys.. otherwise the news pages would just advertise the positions.

Someone mentioned having a nano that took you to a place for fixers... I'm not too sure about this one myself, as funcom and fixer nanos dont seem to go too well together. I do like the idea of having a place to go though

anyway, this is better than working

[Downsizr]

Very nice ideas that are mixed here ...

Another one that will strengthen Fixer role, even if other professions can have access to the black-market :

Give fixers their own black-market channel without OT / CLAN partition.

[____________VonVolks]

thats right Gummi,

we've been asking for fixer chat for ages... i think its very important to allow us to get a blackmarket feel.

Also question.... we fixers need this Black market for certain..... but why is everyone trying to get negative attachements for it?
(ie killable fixers / jail/prison / other penalties) ????


when other profs get a feature for them they dont get some huge disadv to go with it?

The fixer character is all about representing RK's blackmarket underworld. this feature should provide it (for fixers only) the disadvantage should be finding them / getting to them .
THATS ALL.

[Teknolord]

Fixers wanna roleplay too, we dont want it all to be killing and looting. We want some fun and some more feeling of fixers being partially criminals, so therefore we doesnt excactly -want- a drawback, we just don't say no to it

[_______________Intra]

Hi vonvolks,

on RK2 we already have a fixer chat, its just unnofficial and you have to look for it.. its a real black market chat.. it up and running at all times, it appears and dissapears.

as for penalties... whats the point in being on the wrong side of the law if there is no law to stop you?
whats the point in having illegal goods if you can just go on the shopping channel and shout illegal goods for sale?


I am hoping that the blackmarket has a feeling of a black market an ambiance, a danger... I want to roleplay which is why I bought a roleplaying game.

also.. the bigger the penalty or the more the danger the bigger the reward usually.
if there is no danger in a blackmarket then there is no real reason for the items available to be very good at all. it could just be a place to get free ammo.. which would be real bad.

without danger it would just be like walking into a shop in any city, buying goods, walking out and selling them. it would make it so easy to twink.. you just need a fixer mule.
with danger or penalties getting a fixer mule character is less likely

oh and also...
the greater the danger... the more reason we have for selling the black market goods at a higher price "these things aren't easy to come by you know"

I am hoping the blackmarket is a blackmarket.. not just a shop that fixers can walk to and from and mule for people.

bring on the RP!

[____________VonVolks]

yep, I understand and welcome the idea of RP (thats why I play a fixer), but i dont want to see crippling penalties attached.

big penalties are OK IF the rewards are good enough. repeat IF.

As for illegal goods being shouted about , yes that would be silly. maybe we should lose invulnerability to City Guards if we have illegal goods on us, and they detect them.....

[_______________Intra]

Originally posted by VonVolks
yep, I understand and welcome the idea of RP (thats why I play a fixer), but i dont want to see crippling penalties attached.

big penalties are OK IF the rewards are good enough. repeat IF.

As for illegal goods being shouted about , yes that would be silly. maybe we should lose invulnerability to City Guards if we have illegal goods on us, and they detect them.....

hehe.. hey, I didnt realise that Vonvolks was you Jimmy.. and heres me telling you fixers already chatting.

/me looks a tad embarrassed

havent seen you in game in a few days

I prefer the idea of unnofficial chat for fixers rather than an actual official channel.. but I guess that is just me

I like the idea of city guards killing you if they detect illegal goods. but I am not sure the other suggestions would cripple us so much.. yeah some may be a little over the top.. but I like in game danger

anyway..

[_______________Intra]

/Sees the Cosmik has been posting today, assumes that funcom are officially are back from christmas break?

/me bumps to top to try and get some input from 'official people'

[__________KirkWaters]

Sorry that last post was a bit......fuzzy. It was late. I am amazed it was as coherent as it was.

All things need balance. If the blackmarket is just another shop with nothing terribly interesting, no one will use it.

If the black market has really cool, really expensive stuff for cheap then it is useful. But we shouldn't be better traders than traders. It needs to be illeagal. How to handle that I don't know. Jail? Loss of invulnerabilty? The penalties can't be too severe for the items we can get or, again, no one will use it.

It needs to be balanced. The greater the risk, the better the stuff is. The better the stuff is the more risk in carrying it. Perhaps this should extend to a would be buyer to? See the real life anecdote below for my reasoning.

The morning after posting that last message, who should I bump into but a real life 'fixer' so to speak. I was tanking up at a gas station and some guy says (no kidding) 'Pssst! Like good deals? Good deals? Huh?' He then flips open his trunk to show me a car load of obviously stolen stuff.

No I didn't buy anything. Or even get too close. He took off pretty quick after that. It seemed a pretty elaborate set up for such small time items (were talking stolen stereos and DVD's here). He had a radio on him and apparently lookouts. A message came through, a horn honked, and he slammed down the trunk and lit out of there.

Now I personally didn't get too close to the guy for 2 reasons. First I hate theives (we're talking real life here, they may be fun to play, but have you ever had something of yours stolen?). Second, I don't want to be explaining to some cop about how I came to be in possesion of stolen goods. The risk to me wasn't worth what I'm sure was a great price for the goods. Thus my thoughts on a risk (albiet lessoned) for the purchaser as well. For two hours after taking posession of the item, they may get caught or something similar. Just spitballin'

So anyway that's my real life brush with a 'fixer'. We didn't talk ('Excuse me sir, could I get your professional opinion on a proposal on the table for an elaborate simulated world attempting to re-create these sorts of activities?'). Wonder if he's ever been to Rubi-Ka?

[_____________Alexion]

First, I love the idea of a black market. You fixers need some love, this might be a bit of it.

1. Ok, I am an agent. Yep you know what this is gonna mean. We should have access to it through our false profession lines. Why? Because we are assuming the identity of another profession. In theory someone should look at us, and if we're fp'd fixer, their first thought should be "In the name of Pete, why is that fixer using a rifle?". Granted, its not that way, but still, from an RP perspective, it does make sense. Maybe make it so an agent would have to use a higher fp nano to work it, such as assume or mimic professions. I.e. you disguise needs to be pretty good in order to convince the NPC.

2. The black market should be dangerous. The possesion of illegal goods should be dangerous. The simplest way to do this, IMHO, is to create a mayham zone around the black market. Think about it, you go in there to get some uber item, but you have to be watching your back the entire time. Any law minded PC could try to stop the black market from functioning, fixers/agents seeking protection from other classes to get there safely. Works very well in RP and I think it'd be a lot of fun.

3. The black market should be done through NPCs. Some shady looking guy. But that it is possible to kill. But also the NPC should have some "thugs" around to protect him, maybe an enforcer or a soldier or two. A decent respawn time, maybe an hour or so. Again it would make it feel more real.

4. Maybe have two NPCs selling in each black market areas? One selling illegal, hard to find items for a large amount of cash. If you want something illegal, usually its not cheap. But also have a fence NPC, one selling "stolen" common items at low prices, low enough where you could concievably sell for a profit, but not a large one. Maybe even base his inventory off of what people sell to him.

[Hunter06]

If its a mayhem zone then higher levels will camp it till a green fixer comes out and jump him. Shades of EQ for equiptment eh? But overall the blackmarket idea actually make me hyper and i hope it improves my class a bit. Hey heres a idea maybe it sells grid armor in it too.

[schma]

A bump for my current profession.

Note/plea to other professions:

The black market has been pitched as a "need to have" by the fixers in the AO community for ages. (go read the top ten list and notice how it's popping up again and again.)

Fixers are in desperate need of something that helps flesh out the role of our profession.

Fixers are in desperate need of something remotely useful, except the evac at relatively high level. (Remember fixers have extrememly dark blue nanoskills).

[_______________Intra]

Alexion,

I think if Agents get access to the BM through false professions then there should be a chance of them getting caught, and if they do... the punishement should be severe.

The Black market would be a risky place for fixers themselves, but should be even more so for someone impersonating them.

I'm personally not too keen on the mayhem zone idea. especially if the BM is not going to be stationary. it would be very easy for you to find out when you are close to it because the supression gas would fall to zero. if the BM is on the move them sometimes it would be in a mayhem zone anyway. so sometimes it wuld be more dangerous than others.

also, I think that it should be on the move anyway, as fixers are meant to be a the 'masters of travel'

[_______________Intra]

bumping in the hope that this becomes sticky or gets official comments

[________________7084]

Yup, we need official comments! Come on Cosmik!

[Whiterrabbit]

Originally posted by Trimus


hehe.. hey, I didnt realise that Vonvolks was you Jimmy.. and heres me telling you fixers already chatting.

/me looks a tad embarrassed

I thought that was quite funny really

Surely the BM should be accessable only via the grid, and only possible to leave via grid phreak... so other classes can get in, but not out with the goodies...
Hang about, nearly everyone got grid nanos now So that wouldn't work.
But it should be a Fixer/Trader (maybe) / Agent (with great risk, and only at high levels) thingy.


Whiterrabbit.

[________________Crin]

I'm still reading this thread so if this has been mentioned excuse me.

I think that the back market should be ebay in the game. Nothing more or less. If you want to sell your mission loot for more than you would get at a shop. Sell it to a Fixer and he will use his contacts to get you the best price. Need a hard to find item. Once again, ask you local Fixer to see if he can find it for you.