Why the Jobe Explorer Personal Pistol is bad for Adventurers

[dummydoo]

What makes you think ranged advs should be spitting out 15K FAs every 11s?

oh how to i tell thee... let me count the ways

tell me, what anyswer would please you? what answer would prevent you from trying to bait the poster into a flame war?

something along the lines "oh im sooo sorry master, i shall not ask for a second helping!!, forgive me! no no not the whip pleasee!!!! * AHHHH* " ?

feeling uber yet ? i can also direct u to a SM site also im sure if i google it. there you are free to rant at people. or wait even better go to the rpgcodex they will give u a special forum title i guarantee it.

PS: oh yeah and ur dumb**** question has been answered many many times troll go read

[Gothy]

What makes you think ranged advs should be spitting out 15K FAs every 11s?

My natural response to this would be, what makes you think we shouldn't?
But then again, it is plainly clear by both our natural skills orientation and the recent increase in the all important fling shot benefits that FC most definately does not want advs to continue down that path.

Unfortunately, it would take a massive rehaul in ranged adv weapons and our specials and perks to ever make up for the loss of FA. Melee advs would extremely outdamage their ranged counterparts with the removal of FA, and already FC has begun to take into consideration for current and future changes our damage with FA incorporated.

The problem with that is now we've built a ranged adventurer around a special we never were really supposed to use permanently, it's made permanent changes in both pvp and pvm. So the choice becomes fix a whole profession to be as viable as it's melee counterparts without FA, or fix the FA gun to make it more viable for the profession at a higher level.

I think I would perhaps be satisfied with a 7k burst every 3 seconds to compensate for my loss of FA. ;p

[Glarawyn]

Now, it's been 3 years or so since I've been in the game, and I just came back recently. But 3 years ago, me and a few other high end advs ended up agreeing that reloading before FA isn't worth it.

I rarely use reload. Once you get your FA cycle capped and you are throwing out Full Autos you usually have 7-10 bullets in your clip every time Full Auto skill is available, which is enough.

I wrote a script to parse my log files and count specials and special damage and Full Autos were averaging out at 8,286 damage.

My natural response to this would be, what makes you think we shouldn't?

I'd much rather have high damage normal shots so I'm not depending on mutiple specials for which adventurers have dark blue skill and no support buff wise. As long as we had great normal damage I'd be happy with a slow Full Auto cycle. Something to keep in reserve for finishing off opponents after wearing them down. JEPP + Ofab pistols, pistol perks, etc. are lacking when compared to our 1he counterparts.

[dummydoo]

I'd much rather have high damage normal shots so I'm not depending on mutiple specials for which adventurers have dark blue skill and no support buff wise. As long as we had great normal damage I'd be happy with a slow Full Auto cycle. Something to keep in reserve for finishing off opponents after wearing them down. JEPP + Ofab pistols, pistol perks, etc. are lacking when compared to our 1he counterparts.

kinda like fixers u mean? sadly enough they too sometimes switch to a capped FA weapon(big burger) for higher DD.

[Glarawyn]

kinda like fixers u mean?

Kinda, but done right.

Average Burst: 5,495
Average Full Auto 8,286

For what it's worth, we could easily get in the 15K Full Auto range if Ofab Peregrine MK6 had Full Auto.

[Gothy]

I'd much rather have high damage normal shots so I'm not depending on mutiple specials for which adventurers have dark blue skill and no support buff wise. As long as we had great normal damage I'd be happy with a slow Full Auto cycle. Something to keep in reserve for finishing off opponents after wearing them down. JEPP + Ofab pistols, pistol perks, etc. are lacking when compared to our 1he counterparts.

Frankly, I agree. As I said in reference to the reload topic, we are much more likely to land a regular shot than we are a capped FA, in pvp and pvm.

Unfortunately, at this point, I think we'd need to do insane regular damage in order to really make up for FA. While FA has been a real blessing to our damage, it has undoubtedly hurt our profession on the whole.


Oh, and nice to see you again Glara ;D

[wolfmyth]

13k Bursts and I'm happy to remove FA from my toolset.

[Redbar]

If getting rid of FA is a goal, then the replacement weapon might as well have no specials at all since you already get burst and fling from the peregrine. Assuming you get about 12k damage from the JEPP every 11 seconds (FA + a few regular hits), I end up at something like this:

Dreadloch Simplified Peregrine
Tutu the atrox adventurer thought the Ofab Peregrine Mk 6 was too hard to use, so he had a friend make it simpler for him. Tailored for the atrox physique, the weapon smith allowed a little more recoil on this weapon to get better damage from each shot. Interestingly, this gun is currently most popular when used together with the original "difficult" weapon.

Damage: 330-440 (330) Projectile AC
Max Beneficial Skill: 2600
No specials
Requirements: 2201 pistol, maybe 1000 strength for RP purposes
You know the rest -- basically a copy of peregrine stats

Suggested damage is supposed to take into account the higher MBS (assuming advy damage scales much like enf above 1k AR) and the bonus from using Projectile AC in both hands. Still it remains an approximate number, based on back-of-an-envelope calculations.

Making these calculations also made it fairly clear to me why using 2x the current peregrine is not a useful option. 248-358 (248) damage is far too low to make up for the JEPP FA.

[erozc]

It's a cool idea, Redbar. Something like this might be the way to go. The current situation just worries me, since FA really comes into its own as a sort of 'giev dmg now'-button, for instance at APF - won't get many regular shots off there normally. But I guess we have to give some to get some, much unlike some other professions.

Oh and also, the max/crit damages on the suggestion are much lower than for instance in the Diamondine Kick Pistol by looking around a bit it seems that those stats won't warrant anyone to come blabber about a triple AS capable Tigress or sneak on the OFAB Wolf / Dshark

[Fjager]

pitching in my two cents, (i have a 150 advy with jepp and kyr type 1) the new simplifed pistol would make the pistol advy a more equal partner to the 1he advy damage wise pvm and pvp wise since the min damage is higher your regular hits on a player would also be higher effectively replacing the FA misses you would normally get.

Bump for new special less pistol. so i can lvl my advy to 220 since it won't be fun without it.

[Ceneria]

If getting rid of FA is a goal, then the replacement weapon might as well have no specials at all since you already get burst and fling from the peregrine. Assuming you get about 12k damage from the JEPP every 11 seconds (FA + a few regular hits), I end up at something like this:

Dreadloch Simplified Peregrine
Tutu the atrox adventurer thought the Ofab Peregrine Mk 6 was too hard to use, so he had a friend make it simpler for him. Tailored for the atrox physique, the weapon smith allowed a little more recoil on this weapon to get better damage from each shot. Interestingly, this gun is currently most popular when used together with the original "difficult" weapon.

Damage: 330-440 (330) Projectile AC
Max Beneficial Skill: 2600
No specials
Requirements: 2201 pistol, maybe 1000 strength for RP purposes
You know the rest -- basically a copy of peregrine stats

Suggested damage is supposed to take into account the higher MBS (assuming advy damage scales much like enf above 1k AR) and the bonus from using Projectile AC in both hands. Still it remains an approximate number, based on back-of-an-envelope calculations.

Making these calculations also made it fairly clear to me why using 2x the current peregrine is not a useful option. 248-358 (248) damage is far too low to make up for the JEPP FA.

Bamp!

[Tornty]

I like my FA, 15bullet clip please.

[wolfmyth]

If getting rid of FA is a goal, then the replacement weapon might as well have no specials at all since you already get burst and fling from the peregrine.

Just because theres 6k burst on Per doesn't mean we can't get a 13k burst pistol

[dummydoo]

hmm going on this tangent. how about a advy pistol that can crit for 13k? it's prob the only way to make our special 'fling shot' worthwhile.. or they could change fling for advys only to do 2 bullets instead of just 1.


edit: hmm if they changed fling to do say 2 shots from each pistol and kept the abilty to crit fling ..... i'd give up the FA in a heartbeat. so we'd do from between 8-12k flings. could have the multiple bullet fling locked at 2k fling shot skill. or have it sequential. aka at 1.5 fling u get 3bullets total. 1k 2bullets etc.

this would certinaly solve the AR problem. not to mention dammage progression

[Verta]

Just because theres 6k burst on Per doesn't mean we can't get a 13k burst pistol

Well we could, but only one of them would count, which would bring your to net total increase for burst of about the same 6.5K
So of course you'd pick FA over fling for offhand and pair the new uber advy super burst pistol with JEPP...

Or they could make the new gun two handed and make our overbuffed MR a complete joke.

FC should just bite the bullet and upgrade JEPP into LE era and give ranged advies some FA support. They've created too good a weapon and no one is going to give it up. But for some reason FC still seems to be upset about it. :P

[wolfmyth]

Well we could, but only one of them would count, which would bring your to net total increase for burst of about the same 6.5K
So of course you'd pick FA over fling for offhand and pair the new uber advy super burst pistol with JEPP...

Or they could make the new gun two handed and make our overbuffed MR a complete joke.

FC should just bite the bullet and upgrade JEPP into LE era and give ranged advies some FA support. They've created too good a weapon and no one is going to give it up. But for some reason FC still seems to be upset about it. :P

That was exactly the point. You would have the new burst pistol in the main hand since it does much more normal dmg then Per and you would have the Per in the offhand. You loose FA but the 6k+ burst (faster recharge then FA also) makes up for the loss of FA and the low MBS on JEPP.

Also the problem is we have low FA, and I seriously doubt FC will give us a new gun _and_ give us a 200+ min FA buff we need so we can land FA a little more, but still forget landing it on any slight evade proff.

[Verta]

But why would you put Pere in your offhand rather than JEPP? You wouldn't get a second burst out of it.
Lets pretend the new advy pistol won't have fling (lol), then all you are gaining as your second special is fling and giving up FA for it. Chances are the new advy pistol/pere combo won't od new advy pistol/jepp combo, just like dual peres won't od pere/jepp now.
And you'll have to put IP into MR again.

[wolfmyth]

But why would you put Pere in your offhand rather than JEPP? You wouldn't get a second burst out of it.
Lets pretend the new advy pistol won't have fling (lol), then all you are gaining as your second special is fling and giving up FA for it. Chances are the new advy pistol/pere combo won't od new advy pistol/jepp combo, just like dual peres won't od pere/jepp now.
And you'll have to put IP into MR again.

For fighting high level mobs and for PvP it does

Because the pistol would be really high normal dmg and with 13k burst, just add -1k FA on it. This way you have to choose.

Maybe mod burst to do 5-6 bullets? Fling to always Crit? Only for adv ofc.

I just believe that getting rid of FA in our toolset would help us the most now and in the long run.

[Gothy]

For fighting high level mobs and for PvP it does

I assume you are referring to JEPP/Pere not ODing Pere/Pere on high level mobs and in pvp?

Cause I don't think you're correct. In pvp, it really depends on the class you are fighting. Even on full D I can hit a soldier with a capped FA. And if my AR is high enough, I can still land FA on a high level mob. I am pretty sure that even if I missed half of my FAs, it would still do more damage than a dual pere setup.

[wolfmyth]

I assume you are referring to JEPP/Pere not ODing Pere/Pere on high level mobs and in pvp?

Cause I don't think you're correct. In pvp, it really depends on the class you are fighting. Even on full D I can hit a soldier with a capped FA. And if my AR is high enough, I can still land FA on a high level mob. I am pretty sure that even if I missed half of my FAs, it would still do more damage than a dual pere setup.

Yeah I wasn't clear enough. FA will land on about 1/4 of classes and thats it. Vs all the others its Per/onehander.

There was also some discussion around a while ago that showed Per/Per could OD Per/JePP but that was on High level mobs, maybe with crit setup? . Ofc I could be wrong I just recall something like that in the back of my head.