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Thread: Putting SK into research after 200 is NOT affected by faction

  1. #1

    Putting SK into research after 200 is NOT affected by faction

    In interests of knowing how xp/sk works in order to have an effective leveling strategy, I wanted to retest a theory I had tested previously(http://forums.anarchy-online.com/showpost.php?p=6010885), the theory being that once you hit 200, if you're putting the SK into research instead of into levelling, the amount of SK that goes into research is actually unaffected by faction, even if it appears so. This is different to if you were putting that SK into levelling, where the amount of relevant faction you have definitely affects what goes into your levelling bar.

    In that original test, I had originally tested with level 1 and level 2 researches, where it was easy to find mobs that would cap the research for those levels. In this new test, I was testing with level 9 researches, which cap at 37k SK(requiring 740k SK to ding a full level 9 research level). I had a shade at level 215, with a couple of level 10s opened up, and a few level 9s which were completely untouched, ie. no SK had ever been put into them.

    My faction was 49650 out of 50000, which means I'm getting 99.3% of the full SK I would have got if I had full faction. At 215, daily rewards are worth around 61k if I remember right, which is much more than the research cap for level 9 when I set it to 100% research. What I did was I had a completely empty level 9 research I dedicated completely to testing this theory, and I did 3 dailies a day(1 elite, 1 normal, 1 pvp), and everytime I handed the mish in, I switched my research 100% to this level 9 research so that this research level would only be filled by daily mish rewards which would cap. Any other time in game, I had my research target set to another research line, so that I wouldn't get random sk going to the research I had set aside for testing this. I kept track of how many times I got a daily mish reward and when in a spreadsheet, so I wouldn't lose track.

    The result of this testing was that, after having handed in 20 daily mish rewards(ie. I got "36741 SK went to your research" 20 times), I dinged my level 9 research! This can only have happened if instead of receiving 36741 SK each time I got a daily mish reward, I had actually received the full 37k 20 times in order to reach a target SK level of 740k SK to ding a level 9 research.

    Conclusion of this is that Research levelling is actually calculated in amount of xp(unaffected by faction), rather than SK. The message that the game gives you "xxx SK went to your research" is a nominal amount of XP which has been converted to SK, with faction affecting that calculation for display purposes, but the ACTUAL amount of XP which has actually gone into the research level is unaffected by faction.

    Theoretically, you could have a high level character(eg. 220) doing research with little to no faction, and this wouldn't affect the amount that actually goes into research, even if the game tells you you only a tiny bit of your SK went into research. eg. a 220 char with say 2k faction does a daily and puts it 100% into a level 9 research, the game will say "1480 SK has gone into your research" when handed in, yet the reality is, the full cap of 37k SK(or 37 000 000 000 xp) has gone into the research instead.
    RK2 - Pimpmyride 220 Engi!

  2. #2
    Hi

    Interesting test !

    But, are you very sure that your level 9 research was completly empty at the start ?

    As your faction is very near the max (99.3%) you dont need a lot of starting SK to shift the start.
    Then again, it's not impossible that the game just rounds up.

    It would be nice to have someone test it with ... say ... 25% faction, and see if 20 dailies will indeed cap a research.
    Last edited by Gridpain; Jan 20th, 2012 at 09:49:16.
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  3. #3
    Yup, definite it was completely empty at the start. I've been planning to do this for months now so while leveling, I had identified a couple of level 9s to keep track of for this purpose, as soon as they dinged level 9, i moved the focus off them, and made sure nothing went in them again.

    It matches the results of my previous test with level 1s and 2s as well on my advy, done at high level killing mobs in inf to cap per kill.

    Would love for someone else to corroborate this with their own testing, like in the case you mentioned with a very low faction and doing dailies at a high level(in order to cap the research) to see this effect.

    Maybe someone with a hecknoob powerlevelled friend with low faction could suggest this test to them?
    RK2 - Pimpmyride 220 Engi!

  4. #4
    Was a bit of talk about that in this thread a few months back;

    http://forums.anarchy-online.com/sho...d.php?t=593454

    Quote Originally Posted by Lazy View Post
    research caps out at 5% you need 20 dailies to finish a research line no matter how much faction you have.

    I also noticed the ammount of sk needed for research was dependant on faction while inf grinding on my 200 enf over the summer which had minimal faction at the time. I'm sure others have noticed it as well. I didn't really think too much of it because I figured everyone liked lvl 199 rather than 200 because of the mantis hive daily which gives multiple small rewards that just destroy the level 7 and 8 researchs.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by cybertron View Post
    Yup, definite it was completely empty at the start. I've been planning to do this for months now so while leveling, I had identified a couple of level 9s to keep track of for this purpose, as soon as they dinged level 9, i moved the focus off them, and made sure nothing went in them again.

    It matches the results of my previous test with level 1s and 2s as well on my advy, done at high level killing mobs in inf to cap per kill.

    Would love for someone else to corroborate this with their own testing, like in the case you mentioned with a very low faction and doing dailies at a high level(in order to cap the research) to see this effect.
    were the test done on level 1 and 2 with a toon with 99.3% of needed faction ?


    Quote Originally Posted by cybertron View Post
    Maybe someone with a hecknoob powerlevelled friend with low faction could suggest this test to them?
    I would love to know how you reached 49k faction on a 210 solo
    // Break time //

    /\/\ Newcomers Alliance General and LMAA co-founder /\/\
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  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Xirayne View Post
    I also noticed the ammount of sk needed for research was dependant on faction while inf grinding on my 200 enf over the summer which had minimal faction at the time. I'm sure others have noticed it as well. I didn't really think too much of it because I figured everyone liked lvl 199 rather than 200 because of the mantis hive daily which gives multiple small rewards that just destroy the level 7 and 8 researchs.
    Quote Originally Posted by Xirayne View Post
    I honestly did not notice a difference in sk gain on the bar while doing missions with low faction than when I had done a few pande raids. It made me think that the only nerf to SK due to faction is when leveling, not research. Just my theory, I wouldn't expect that having lower faction would change the % cap on research levels, and I'm not sure what else would explain it.
    I'm a bit confused by your post, I quoted your post from the other thread too to compare. They seem to conflict? My experience with this matches yours from your 2nd quoted statement.

    Because of the way that AO reports how much SK actually goes to your research at levels 200+, I think a lot of people just take it at its word, whereas I think my results proves otherwise.


    Quote Originally Posted by Gridpain View Post
    were the test done on level 1 and 2 with a toon with 99.3% of needed faction ?

    I would love to know how you reached 49k faction on a 210 solo
    hmm, can't remember off the top of my head, but think it was around 48k at the time, or 49k maybe, definitely less than 50k as I've never hit 50k on any of my toons. Regardless, when I killed the mob for level 1 and 2, it was reporting I was getting less than the research cap, yet still dinged the research level on the 20th kill. Again, on completely empty research levels.

    Not sure what the question about reaching 49k faction on 210 solo has to do with?
    RK2 - Pimpmyride 220 Engi!

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by cybertron View Post
    Not sure what the question about reaching 49k faction on 210 solo has to do with?
    Because it seems that you consider that someone with faction under 48k is a "hecknoob powerlevelled toon" ... so as being someone who find it hard to get high faction, I wanted to know your secrets !
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  8. #8
    For last few months I ve been doing a lot of daily missions on 3 of my alts - two level 200 (they dinged 200 long ago "by mistake") and one level 199. From what I noticed /remember there was no difference up to research level 8.

    But doing 9s was noticeably more difficult on level 200 than on level 199 even thou those lev 200s have not bad faction (1-about 40k-41k and other 45k-46k)
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  9. #9
    That's normal, even with 50k faction, you ll still gain less SK at 200 than XP at 199 for a daily.
    (you gain 30% of the XP needed at 199, and 20% of the SK needed at 200 : out of memory, it's 22M XP vs 16k SK )
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    /\/\ Newcomers Alliance General and LMAA co-founder /\/\
    Froob for 3 years :
    Gridpain, Nfurter, Slayie, Forcedevente, Asafart, Theshrike, Whipingwillow, Malaucrane, Karmapolice.

    Sloob since 2009 :
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  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Gridpain View Post
    Because it seems that you consider that someone with faction under 48k is a "hecknoob powerlevelled toon" ... so as being someone who find it hard to get high faction, I wanted to know your secrets !
    No no. I don't mean to imply anyone with faction under 48k is a hecknoob powerlevelled toon. I just wanted to find a powerlevelled hecknoob with faction under 48k to do the test and I actually think thats not too hard to do, especially with sided chars who have been kited all the way in ely, then dragged along on easy inf missions with highbies. Easy mish faction will cap at around 43k if I remember right, so unless they've been doing meds or hards, pande raids, faction raids, they'll have relatively low faction.

    As to secrets to getting high faction, if neut, get in on LOTV raids. If sided, get a highbie friend who can blitz and solo the familiar to roll 220 hards, get them to blitz to familiar and then kill the familiar while you're in mish. You won't get mish reward, but you'll get faction. I was lucky, had an orgmate who did this for a few of us(all hail the Ryph!)


    Quote Originally Posted by Gridpain View Post
    That's normal, even with 50k faction, you ll still gain less SK at 200 than XP at 199 for a daily.
    (you gain 30% of the XP needed at 199, and 20% of the SK needed at 200 : out of memory, it's 22M XP vs 16k SK )
    Yup, agreed here, if intending to park at 200, do all your 9s before dinging 200 to do 10s. Doing dailies at 200, you'll be getting around 72% of the reward that you would be at 199, not to mention you don't have access to the mantis elite daily, which gives 1.8(or 1.6 if queen isn't up) of a reward. That is, of course, IF my testing results stand and that SK that goes into research isn't affected by faction and you'll get the full 16k SK into your research, as opposed to if you have low faction, a percentage of that 16k instead.

    I'm going to retest with a level 10 research soon, as soon as I open it up, and again I'll pay close attention to making sure its empty at the start(ie. soon as i ding the 9 research, keep it empty till I turn in mish rewards in). Will only take about 7 days to complete the test, if I do 3 dailies a day. Ofc, I could be really hardcore and go whack a few yuttos before I start it to lower my faction to make it a better test, but I'm not willing to kill my levelling since I'm not 220 yet :P
    RK2 - Pimpmyride 220 Engi!

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by cybertron View Post
    I'm a bit confused by your post, I quoted your post from the other thread too to compare. They seem to conflict? My experience with this matches yours from your 2nd quoted statement.


    Sorry for the confusion. In my first post I meant the SK required to -complete- a research was dependant on faction, meaning that having lower faction seems to require less SK to complete the research, hence lower caps. It's still a 5% cap regardless of how much faction you have.

    In the second post you quoted I say that improving my faction did not, to my noticing, improve the rate at which I completed research, even though I was apparently gaining far more SK.

  12. #12
    I'll be able to add some input on this to help you
    I have a 198 keeper, just starting to work level 8 researchs
    so once i hit a 9, I'll let you know how the rewards come out
    Plugsz
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  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by plugszzz View Post
    I'll be able to add some input on this to help you
    I have a 198 keeper, just starting to work level 8 researchs
    so once i hit a 9, I'll let you know how the rewards come out
    Hmm..hard to test with a level 9 unless you're 207+, so you can cap the research cap for that level with a daily reward(37265.02 SK at 50000 faction). Need a way to test the actual gain of SK into research, not what the game tells you.

    If someone has :
    1) a toon 200+(so SK/faction comes into play)
    2) with a completely empty level 1 research
    3) not close to 50k faction, <45k faction would be good
    4) on RK2
    ping me, and I can team you while I go kill a few mobs in inf that will cap the level 1 research. After 20 kills, should ding that level 1 research.

    Anyway, I've just dinged a level 9 research, which has opened up a completely empty Level 10. Will be repeating this test with 3 daily rewards ONLY(and nothing else) into that level 10 research. Should have another result in 7 days if I can get time to do my dailies every day.
    RK2 - Pimpmyride 220 Engi!

  14. #14
    Just suckered an org mate(thanks kam bish!) to test theory out for me with an empty level 2 research.

    - 212 shade
    - faction of 46433(0.92866 of 50000)
    - set to 100% research on level 2

    For every kill, shade was getting 20 sk("20 of your SK were allocated to your personal research."), level 2 research cap is 22 sk(approx). After exactly 20 kills of inf somphos(more than enough to cap level 2 research), shade dinged the level 2 research.

    The results indicate that faction is calculated in xp, not SK. And the SK displayed to players is adjusted for faction when it shouldn't be for research purposes.
    RK2 - Pimpmyride 220 Engi!

  15. #15
    So the message displayed would be false ! that's a good news.
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  16. #16
    I can confirm that the client-side message calculates based on faction, but faction does not affect the gain. Adding this to the known issues list here.

    Thanks for researching this.
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  17. #17
    Thank you for your feedback ...

    now ... question is ... will FC change client side message, or real SK gain ...
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  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Gridpain View Post
    Thank you for your feedback ...

    now ... question is ... will FC change client side message, or real SK gain ...
    They should just change faction into something useful, that isn't related to your experience gain. Or remove it completely!
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