Letter from the Game Director: 14 January 2008

[Hacre]

(who know prof whot can kill keeper easy?)

Actually I've killed a good number of keepers with my NT. Just need to know the weakness of the profession. Unlike most NTs for example, keepers have crappy runspeed unless they buff it to the max, which most don't.

Why?

Any keeper that has spent any time on their setup, has tweaked their IP. There aren't many places for a keeper to sacrifice IP from, comp lit and run speed being the most often chosen. Implanting run speed in wrists often leads to the loss of other key skills like multi melee, used by a lot of keepers for high QL phulakterions.

The only keepers any NT should have to worry about are NR1 perked ones (which are going to the gimped elsewhere by doing this) or SD perked ones. Not that many SD perked keepers around in my experience certainly not on RK1 at any rate.

As for who can kill a keeper:

Soldiers. Seriously, most soldiers can just AMS and lol pewpew most keepers with little worries. Decent soldiers, like Heartless888 are deadly to keepers.

Adventurers. Decent melee adventurers can simply just outlast a keeper. Especially on battlestation, where going full on evade-clsc mode will get you wtfpwned over and over by the overwhelming number of ranged professions.

Smart Agents. Any Agent worth its salt can drop a keeper.

Sick MPs. Teoretik springs to mind, as a pain in the ass where keepers are concerned.

Doctors. This is more of a 1v1 issue but yeah any decent doc can take a keeper or at best hope for a stalemate.

Covered decent NTs...

Keepers aren't the gods you think they are, not anymore. They're good, yes, powerful, yes, for all round PVP however, ranged is very much their achilles heel. Heals that don't compare to an advy's, nowhere near as much root/snare resist, nowhere near as much runspeed. Good vs melee classes but it doesn't take many ranged folk to show up and start popping some holes in the very best keepers.

If you're getting owned by keepers on a regular basis, do your homework. I die more often to adventurers, enforcers and soldiers than I've ever come close to dying to a keeper.

[Wakizaka]

Any keeper that has spent any time on their setup, has tweaked their IP. There aren't many places for a keeper to sacrifice IP from, comp lit and run speed being the most often chosen. Implanting run speed in wrists often leads to the loss of other key skills like multi melee, used by a lot of keepers for high QL phulakterions.

Can Implant NR/RS/MM in both wrists, but rather just do L-Wrist Imp and Infantry R-Wrist.

[Theonora]

The diminishing returns timer needs to be a lot longer. I would suggest something like 1 week, 4 hours is way too short.

Also, it just occurred to me that maybe future rewards will cost 'pvp score' and that system will serve to lower peoples titles as they cash them in. If not, then some system like decay is a must. Will be silly to have everyone running around with the same top title.

I would think at least the duel titles, since it's the least "huggable" in the proposed system, should go both up and down. tbh, it's also the one I care about least, since I only duel friends for fun, I'll probably never have one.

Theo

[Xaun]

<snip>
Keepers aren't the gods you think they are, not anymore. They're good, yes, powerful, yes, for all round PVP however, ranged is very much their achilles heel. Heals that don't compare to an advy's, nowhere near as much root/snare resist, nowhere near as much runspeed. Good vs melee classes but it doesn't take many ranged folk to show up and start popping some holes in the very best keepers.
<snip>

Very well put post on how things are and I believe thats a fairly objective point of view. Yes I am horribly out of date since LE came out but still after calculating the total gains from a full QL300 setup (seems everyone has one nowadays ) even still the amount of evades vs ranged professions or resistance to be chain rooted will always be prevalent. I have heard but not yet checked into the DB regarding our newest nanos but suspect that depending on the new stat requirements when/if I do return pending a graphics update I will probably have to IPR just to be able to cast them :/ and from the underwhelming responses I have heard from some it still leaves us where we were with everyone elses boosts in their new toolsets. Yes keepers are uber but that list of our weaknesses just about sums it up. I know Engineers hate us they always will probably traders and shades too just because we have enough defense and enough offense to seem godly to them. But a soldier with a lick of a clue what to do or adv/fixer combo and its ouch time.

[Hacre]

Very well put post on how things are and I believe thats a fairly objective point of view. Yes I am horribly out of date since LE came out but still after calculating the total gains from a full QL300 setup (seems everyone has one nowadays ) even still the amount of evades vs ranged professions or resistance to be chain rooted will always be prevalent. I have heard but not yet checked into the DB regarding our newest nanos but suspect that depending on the new stat requirements when/if I do return pending a graphics update I will probably have to IPR just to be able to cast them :/ and from the underwhelming responses I have heard from some it still leaves us where we were with everyone elses boosts in their new toolsets. Yes keepers are uber but that list of our weaknesses just about sums it up. I know Engineers hate us they always will probably traders and shades too just because we have enough defense and enough offense to seem godly to them. But a soldier with a lick of a clue what to do or adv/fixer combo and its ouch time.

Thanks <3

Don't even think about using the new nanos on the BS. Which means no improved (10%) root resist. Not unless you have a friendly trader and MP around and make time to swap phulaks in. Alternatively wear Alb nano bracer, scout hat, arith pants/2x sleeves/gloves/chest, CR, dark biotech ring, 2x phulaks, alb nano enhancer. That's as solitus with 280-300 symbs in the relevant nano skill slots.

Alternatively grind AI30 for another 100 in nanoskills (if you unperk ai tech 3) and shave off some of those items, however this is still rendered impossible unless you choose to run around in some pieces of scouts and never take off the CR.

@Waki:

Thanks for the correction, brief bout of memory failure. It was NR I lost from right wrist because I have AS in it atm for my AS swap, not MM.

But still a decent NT can give a decent keeper a run for their money unless they're SD perked or NR1 perked with NR 300 refineds with NR tweaked elsewhere. You know yourself NR isn't exactly the uberest of skills for a keeper.

Not meaning to derail the discussion, I just detest posts that start screaming "OMG LOL KEEPER GODMODE EVERYONE ROLL KEEPER NOW THEY NEVER DIE NO ONE CAN KILL THEM".

[Cariadast]

You can just stand still for 3 minutes and go grab something to drink, you'll be auto-AFKd and outside by the time you come back...

Reads back.. A crat doesnt really get that kinda time.. they squish first.

And tbh, its something Id rarely use. Generally only use it if I have to go be president for some "crisis", a tower war, or real life.

But still... course then theres the event when malnourish eats me 10 times in a row in less than 3 minutes and I just cant take it anymore...(love ya Mal)

You could always turret up and exploit crat stun procs.

Well, at least we know Id kill a few keepers :P

Hmm working as intended apparently!

Don't join if you fail.

Errr yeah....

[Hacre]

Well, at least we know Id kill a few keepers :P

Again with the assumption about what toons were being played when the bug was noticed. Not that the profession actually matters, so since this thread has a slightly better chance of Sil noticing it than anything in the LE forum:

Fix procs firing from mechs/APs/AVTs. Preferably in 17.8. There should be nothing in the game that makes it possible for an AV to kill an NT (or any other profession) by keeping it rooted to the spot for 15 seconds+ unable to mitigate any of the damage. Seriously if this is intended, its retarded.

Hmm working as intended apparently!

Says FC? Or says you?

Oh and dying doesn't break your afk time on the BS.

[Momento]

Not sure if this was posted already but:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dan_ran...ks_in_Japanese

Copy-paste is bad.

[Mekh]

Greek ranks...
Sounds kinda cool, allthough a bit complex.... At least for me as a non-greek....

10 Strategos
9 Antistrategos
8 Hypostrategos
7 Taxiarkhos
6 Syntagmatarkhes
5 Antisyntagmatarkhes
4 Tagmatarkhes
3 Lokhagos
2 Hypolokhagos
1 Anthypolokhagos


Anyway.... Might spawn some other ideas as well

[ithacana]

I don't intend to read through all 20 or so pages of posts here, but I sincerely hope that you change the arena's to a 100% zone so that they can still be utilised for duels.

I love the proposed changes, well done guys.

As far as the solo titles go, my suggestion (although not very well thought out I admit), is to possibly use the names of classic sci fi books/movies.

Blade Runner
Stainless Steel Rat
Terminator
Ghost in the Shell
Neuromancer

I don't know how close this would come to infringing IP, maybe make the references more obscure, using the name of a primary or secondary character from the books as the title. Maybe its stupid, was just an idea.

[candle-645]

As for me - PvP titles shall degrade over time.

There are very good implementation of it in some professional phorum
- there are yours overall rating you got since joined it
- there are rating you earned over last period of time (month)
- and yours current rating is _overall_rating_/5 + _last_period_rating_
- "title" is determined by yours _current_rating_
- only you can see yours _overall_rating_. everyone else see only yours "title"
- points other ppls give you for good post/article (added to yours rating you get when kill other peoples) are depends on on _current_rating_ of ppls who give you points for post (ppls you kill)
- also there are limit to points person X may give to person Y during some time period (you can't farm points by killing the same person)

Such system works over 8 years at mentioned phorum and proved to be really good
- you looze title over time, if you inactive, or less active then normally
- hovewer if you already had some high title - it easier for you to get it back than for someone who just joined and trying to get it from scratch
- good balance between points you get from semi-active "veterans" and active newcomers

Not sure if it will work for AO since posting article in professional phorum usually done to help others and/or share knowledge and don't guarantee you get any rating points while ganking someone did.
But PvP ranks system that considers player PvP activity over time is highly desired for me (and according to posts here to lots of other players), and one described above may be very good option for it.

[Zealotvoid]

I agree with everyone that said they dislike the Solo Ranks. I don't hate them, but they don't really fit in with a game like AO.

So, I made a list of ranks as a suggestion (didn't fill out all the spots because I couldn't really think of any more):

· Beginner

·

· Slayer

· Guardian

· Ace

·

.

· Myrmidon

· Legionnaire

· Master

Also, some other rank names that I thought of but wasn't too sure if they're any good: Eliminator, Silencer, Bloodletter, Imperial, Superior, Brigadier

If you do decide to change the names of the Solo Ranks, I hope this list helps.

[Traquemort]

About the way titles are gained, I think it would be more interesting (and slower so would give a better feeling of achievement) to make points earnable only on people with higher title than yours, same, or one title lower, so notitlers and sub 220 wouldn't be overfarmed.

[MajorOutage]

I think the rank names for Solo and Duel titles should be swapped. The ranks for the mode most closely resembling current PvP system should keep the names most closely resembling the current one as well.

I think the martial arts titles are more befitting of Duel ranks as well. I keep thinking of those old kung-fu movies where the fights were always 1vs1, even if the room was filled with ninja's.

[Wakizaka]

But still a decent NT can give a decent keeper a run for their money unless they're SD perked or NR1 perked with NR 300 refineds with NR tweaked elsewhere. You know yourself NR isn't exactly the uberest of skills for a keeper.

That is true, I generally opt for the 'pounce' option if I get the chance. Most NTs on BS atm seem to just root me and run away :/ As for amount of NR, I'm @ 2150 without NR and works well for me.

Sorry to post off topic

[Taifoon]

I really think that having different ranks for 3 differnet types of pvp is Cool and adds more content and versitality to pvp.

but I would like to share some thoughts about the new system:

No cosequence of death means NO REWARD OF WINNING !! as all are winners at the very end so the next goal will be 220/30/70/Grand Master. How unique and motivating is that?
the only real pvp motive as it is now is the title that you earn or lose (talking about the known pvp'ers not farmers). this means current pvp'ers will be discouraged and eventaully disappear, while pvm'ers wont be motivated anyway, as they can farm it from less skilled/equipped pvm'ers ( they know they will get it sometime durning there leveling journy).

next is less motivation for twinking and making better toons for pvp cuz sure you will be killing some1 in BS and here and there while deaths dont count anyway.

So in order to keep pvp titles as unique and dynamic as they are now, it might be better with solutions for the current pvp situation rather than making death with no consequence, for ex.:

-titles huggers in BS - make afk activates after 1 min or more
-BY zoning etc - change BY gas or make flag shorter with no zoning to 100% allowed while flagged.
pvp'ers not joining BS fearing for their titles - make death counts for only 1 time/ round.
If there is no way around then at least make the solo title dynamic and team title permenant, so they can team instead and join without fear for their "solo titles", well this leaves somthing at least with motivation for those who are willing to take pvp further

I really hope the fixer/engi solution will help balancing high towers war but I just cant see it happening cuz they are attackers meaning they are closer to CT than defenders so when 2-3 OS succeed and land at least half of the fixer/engi force is gone, the rest has already been taken care of by defenders as they are the new prime targets.

[Synre]

I really think that having different ranks for 3 differnet types of pvp is Cool and adds more content and versitality to pvp.

but I would like to share some thoughts about the new system:

No cosequence of death means NO REWARD OF WINNING !! as all are winners at the very end so the next goal will be 220/30/70/Grand Master. How unique and motivating is that?
the only real pvp motive as it is now is the title that you earn or lose (talking about the known pvp'ers not farmers). this means current pvp'ers will be discouraged and eventaully disappear, while pvm'ers wont be motivated anyway, as they can farm it from less skilled/equipped pvm'ers ( they know they will get it sometime durning there leveling journy).

next is less motivation for twinking and making better toons for pvp cuz sure you will be killing some1 in BS and here and there while deaths dont count anyway.

So in order to keep pvp titles as unique and dynamic as they are now, it might be better with solutions for the current pvp situation rather than making death with no consequence, for ex.:

-titles huggers in BS - make afk activates after 1 min or more
-BY zoning etc - change BY gas or make flag shorter with no zoning to 100% allowed while flagged.
pvp'ers not joining BS fearing for their titles - make death counts for only 1 time/ round.
If there is no way around then at least make the solo title dynamic and team title permenant, so they can team instead and join without fear for their "solo titles", well this leaves somthing at least with motivation for those who are willing to take pvp further

I

I agree.. no losing titles is no fun

How about this funcom:

The person with the most kills at the moment is grandmaster (or whatever top title it was). the person with second most kill gets second higest title etc. This way, ppl will be motivated to go out and kill more, cuz if they dont others will catch up.

Add in a kills reset every month to give newcomers a chance.

[BigT]

I agree.. no losing titles is no fun

How about this funcom:

The person with the most kills at the moment is grandmaster (or whatever top title it was). the person with second most kill gets second higest title etc. This way, ppl will be motivated to go out and kill more, cuz if they dont others will catch up.

Add in a kills reset every month to give newcomers a chance.

You could reset once a month, once a week, once a day and it will still only reward those with the most time, not the one who is most devoted to PvP. I like the idea of only one Grand Master, but it should probably have more to do with all stats combined (Average Damage % on kills, Activity vs. Game-Time, Kill-Death Ratio, etc). All should play an important part in how far you advance.

Honestly I'd like to see all of those and more be factors in earning new Titles to begin with. At the end of the day it cycles through and figures up your 'PvP Prowess' from all those stats and advances your title accordingly vs. all others. Yes yes, I know it's WoW-esque (Or whoever came up with it), but it's a decent way for title to reflect ability or at least dedication.

I realize something like this has probably been suggested, just figured I'd elaborate on what I thought would be a nice system to see if I had anything new to bring to the table ^^

[Synre]

You could reset once a month, once a week, once a day and it will still only reward those with the most time, not the one who is most devoted to PvP. I like the idea of only one Grand Master, but it should probably have more to do with all stats combined (Average Damage % on kills, Activity vs. Game-Time, Kill-Death Ratio, etc). All should play an important part in how far you advance.

Honestly I'd like to see all of those and more be factors in earning new Titles to begin with. At the end of the day it cycles through and figures up your 'PvP Prowess' from all those stats and advances your title accordingly vs. all others. Yes yes, I know it's WoW-esque (Or whoever came up with it), but it's a decent way for title to reflect ability or at least dedication.

I realize something like this has probably been suggested, just figured I'd elaborate on what I thought would be a nice system to see if I had anything new to bring to the table ^^

hmm yeah you got a point

PVP score = (kills/deaths calculation) versus (pvp time/actuall gaming time)

guy with highest pvp score gets highest title?

something like this?

[Cynic092]

You could reset once a month, once a week, once a day and it will still only reward those with the most time, not the one who is most devoted to PvP. I like the idea of only one Grand Master, but it should probably have more to do with all stats combined (Average Damage % on kills, Activity vs. Game-Time, Kill-Death Ratio, etc). All should play an important part in how far you advance.

Honestly I'd like to see all of those and more be factors in earning new Titles to begin with. At the end of the day it cycles through and figures up your 'PvP Prowess' from all those stats and advances your title accordingly vs. all others. Yes yes, I know it's WoW-esque (Or whoever came up with it), but it's a decent way for title to reflect ability or at least dedication.

I realize something like this has probably been suggested, just figured I'd elaborate on what I thought would be a nice system to see if I had anything new to bring to the table ^^

As someone who feels that without any kind of PvP title loss possibility if you suck at it, it's wholly pointless and therefore completely disregarded the entire propsal - I really like the basic ideas above. Keep the points gained dependent on the existing title of the person you killed to prevent farming of non-PvPers and keep the rankings up to date based on how much active PvPing and winning at PvP you're doing.

Perhaps it's too much in the way of server calculations to maintain a complex system based on active in-game time, the number of PvP actions taken/won/lost/evac'd from, the win/loss ratio and ranked on a self-adjusting scale with the other players taking PvP actions on the server etc for every character? I'd hope not but even though the implementation of most of that wouldn't have anything to do with the byzantine code AO is running on, the servers might be so overwhelmed at said clunky code that the mere thought of extra work would be enough to give the hamsters a coronary.