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Thread: Tepamina's Soldier Guide (UPDATED 2/19/10)

  1. #61
    The formulas seem right to me.

    In the case of a peregrine, it says you need 1400 burst to cap it. Any number over that 1400 is going to report as negative, but it doesn't matter because of the hardcap.

    Or am I way off base?
    Quote Originally Posted by kesh View Post
    I heard black troxes have a huge nothing.
    Berinda: Assault rifle

    Wenona: SMG

  2. #62
    Well, what we do is that if we see a negative number we consider it as capped.

    It's just not correct..

  3. #63
    I might have to do a rewrite considering all the new stuff that has come in the patches recently. Not too sure if I have the original that Tepa sent me for easier editing, but that doesn't mean it's not too hard to just copy and reformat everything all nice and neat.
    220/30 - Spartanx9. Back for a good while.

    Quote Originally Posted by Haquihana
    Haquihana: And Spartanx9, I dont usually spend much time in the soldier forums.. you all don't make enough rucus (NOTE: this is not a message of approval to go cause unjust trouble)
    Sounds like i need to cause some trouble I kid i kid

  4. #64
    I added weapons earlier this year. Forgot to stick the neutrino flash in, though.

    I'm waiting on the rebalance to do updates beyond just weapons, but if you want to make changes I'll be glad to put them up.
    Quote Originally Posted by kesh View Post
    I heard black troxes have a huge nothing.
    Berinda: Assault rifle

    Wenona: SMG

  5. #65
    Well, if nothing core has changed too much, aside from a few items, then yeah, the re-write can wait.
    220/30 - Spartanx9. Back for a good while.

    Quote Originally Posted by Haquihana
    Haquihana: And Spartanx9, I dont usually spend much time in the soldier forums.. you all don't make enough rucus (NOTE: this is not a message of approval to go cause unjust trouble)
    Sounds like i need to cause some trouble I kid i kid

  6. #66
    Btw, Spart....good to see u back.
    Gunfytr 220/30/70 Soldier Lawdog80 220/30/70 Advy
    Quote Originally Posted by Kintaii View Post
    Because we said so.
    Quote Originally Posted by Anarrina View Post
    I am unamused. I strongly suggest you don't unamuse me further
    Quote Originally Posted by Means View Post
    This nano blocks CH. This is intended.

  7. #67
    Envy of the Xan
    When paired with a Rhat'ata Gun, this is the top PvM DD gun for soldiers. The gun is capable of burst and full auto attacks, though the burst refresh only hits 11s at 2425 full auto skill - no small feat for many soldiers. While not a bad PvP weapon, your attack rating will be far lower than an assault rifle soldier and you should not build a PvP character around it.



    Request to have the bolded part removed. I, as well as many soldiers, can attest to how untrue this is.
    Leave "Marinegent" AScar - 220/23/65 Atrox Agent
    Wakeup "Marinesold" Screaming - 220/30/70 Nanomage Soldier
    "Moonmarin" - 220/30/80 Solitus Martial Artist
    "Marinekeep" - 215/18/4x Atrox Keeper
    Quote Originally Posted by CuisinartBlade View Post
    to be fair, 2.8k ar is enough to perk anyone except fixers, mas, advs, shades, nt's that blinded you, shield mps, bow mps that landed dazzle, def docs, crats, or marinesold

    so all in all it's a fairly viable setup

  8. #68
    Changed the second half of the bolded part.

    Also, once rebalance hits, not being to FA and AS may make the Envy have very limited appeal in PvP.
    Quote Originally Posted by kesh View Post
    I heard black troxes have a huge nothing.
    Berinda: Assault rifle

    Wenona: SMG

  9. #69
    Quote Originally Posted by Berinda View Post
    The formulas seem right to me.

    In the case of a peregrine, it says you need 1400 burst to cap it. Any number over that 1400 is going to report as negative, but it doesn't matter because of the hardcap.

    Or am I way off base?
    It's making the wrong number negative: in case of the Peregrine, the [ (1.2 * 20) + 4000 / 100 ] part. Every answer you get with this formula should be positive - with it, you get the amount of Burst to cap the skill, which can't be negative.
    [[ RYUAHN | 220/21 Opifex Trader
    == Proud Member of Core ==
    [[ ALASTROPHE | 220/15 Solitus Martial-Artist

    Quote Originally Posted by Raggy View Post
    There is literally nothing wrong with {Shutdown Skills} in it's current incarnation. What should be being looked at is the reason why it's needed so much. E.g, the incredible amount of Alpha being thrown around and the fickleness of Evade profs.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cratertina View Post
    I walk in to BS... could not perk people... with 3704 AR and 300 AAD drain... NT facerolled me, shade instagibbed me, after a few minutes I just decided not gonna bother.

  10. #70
    You can force any of these formulas to spit out a negative number if you want. However, any number lower than the hardcap always equals the hardcap.
    Quote Originally Posted by kesh View Post
    I heard black troxes have a huge nothing.
    Berinda: Assault rifle

    Wenona: SMG

  11. #71
    Quote Originally Posted by Berinda View Post
    I added weapons earlier this year. Forgot to stick the neutrino flash in, though.

    I'm waiting on the rebalance to do updates beyond just weapons, but if you want to make changes I'll be glad to put them up.
    hi, if I remember correctly, the newbie Assault rifle got fling shot >_> not fullauto and we are not given smgs as alternatives.
    Ceenah 220/30/66 PvM NT @ Newcomers Alliance
    Eeenah 199/0 Froob NT @ Newcomers Alliance

  12. #72
    Quote Originally Posted by Berinda View Post
    The formulas seem right to me.

    In the case of a peregrine, it says you need 1400 burst to cap it. Any number over that 1400 is going to report as negative, but it doesn't matter because of the hardcap.

    Or am I way off base?
    well, I didn't really go into the numbers, its just that when I was looking at this guide, and then I went to AOFroob to see the discussion behind the formula you posted, I just noticed that the formula that accomplice posted was different with a + instead of a -(as seen in the guide).

    Not saying which formula is more correct or whether negative numbers are more correct than positive numbers, just saying that if the guide is going to quote Accomplice's formulae, might as well make it an accurate quote.


    From Accomplice's post on AOFroob
    ----------------
    R = burst recharge
    a = weapon attack speed
    r = weapon recharge speed
    C = weapon burst cycle
    b = player burst skill


    R = floor((20 x r) + (C / 100) - (b / 25) + a)
    cap = round(8 + a)
    capskill = floor(((20 x r) + (C / 100) - 8) * 25)
    ----------------
    RK2 - Pimpmyride 220 Engi!

  13. #73
    Quote Originally Posted by Berinda View Post
    You can force any of these formulas to spit out a negative number if you want. However, any number lower than the hardcap always equals the hardcap.
    You're reading the formula wrong.

    Again, as it's written in Tepamina's guide, you'd have a formula of

    Burst Skill = floor(((20 x 1.2) - (4000 / 100) - 8) *25)

    Solving this:
    Code:
    ((20 x 1.2) - 40 - 8) * 25
    ........(24 - 40 - 8) * 25
    ..................-24 * 25
    .....................-600
    Lemme remind you that this formula is for ascertaining how much Burst is required to cap at 9 seconds, not the current Burst recharge timer. According to the formula in Tep's guide, the correct amount of Burst to cap a Peregrine is -600, which is horribly wrong.

    With the formula edited correctly, you get:
    Code:
    ((20 x 1.2) + 40 - 8) * 25
    ........(24 + 40 - 8) * 25
    ...................56 * 25
    ......................1400
    1400 Burst to cap it.
    Last edited by Saetos; Oct 12th, 2010 at 12:54:16.
    [[ RYUAHN | 220/21 Opifex Trader
    == Proud Member of Core ==
    [[ ALASTROPHE | 220/15 Solitus Martial-Artist

    Quote Originally Posted by Raggy View Post
    There is literally nothing wrong with {Shutdown Skills} in it's current incarnation. What should be being looked at is the reason why it's needed so much. E.g, the incredible amount of Alpha being thrown around and the fickleness of Evade profs.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cratertina View Post
    I walk in to BS... could not perk people... with 3704 AR and 300 AAD drain... NT facerolled me, shade instagibbed me, after a few minutes I just decided not gonna bother.

  14. #74
    Okay, I got you now. I'll fix it.
    Quote Originally Posted by kesh View Post
    I heard black troxes have a huge nothing.
    Berinda: Assault rifle

    Wenona: SMG

  15. #75
    Two minor things, regarding IP, that aren't completely accurate.

    The guide implies that neither abilities or map-nav can be reset. While that is true for individual resets, it isn't true for full IPR.
    Last edited by Waylayer; Sep 15th, 2010 at 02:00:06.

  16. #76
    I was doing some calcs with Weapon Specials and ran into an anomaly with the Fling Shot Recharge Times so hunted around for further references and came across your guide, which is great btw.

    I found all of the Fling Shot 'numbers' that are floating around calculate a recharge time of 7 secs, this includes the ones in this guide, whereas the cap is 6 secs.

    Yes, I waffle.

    QL200 BigBurger - 1.3 Attack

    Skill needed to cap:

    Skill = [ (Wep Attack time x 16) - 7 ] x 100
    Skill = [ (1.3 x 16) - 7 ] x 100
    Skill = 1380

    Skill = (1600 x Wep Attack Time) - 700
    Skill = (1600 x 1.3) - 700
    Skill = 1380

    Calc Recharge - 1380 skill for 6 second cycle ...so we believe

    RechargeTime = (Attack x 16) - FlingSkill / 100
    RechargeTime = (1.3 x 16) - 1380 / 100
    RechargeTime = 7.0

    ...and

    QL300 Pew'her - 1.2 Attack

    Skill needed to cap:

    Skill = [ (Wep Attack time x 16) - 7 ] x 100
    Skill = [ (1.3 x 16) - 7 ] x 100
    Skill = 1220

    Skill = (1600 x Wep Attack Time) - 700
    Skill = (1600 x 1.3) - 700
    Skill = 1220

    Calc Recharge - 1220 skill for 6 second cycle ...so we believe

    RechargeTime = (Attack x 16) - FlingSkill / 100
    RechargeTime = (1.2 x 16) - 1220 / 100
    RechargeTime = 7.0

    Over the years the Soldier forums seemed to of pumped out the most info about Weapon Specials so was wondering what you thought about this?
    .:: Stigman : 220 / 30 / 70 : NM Engineer (PVM 35% Crit) : I Make It, You Buy It : FIRST Omni NM Engi to hit 220/30/70 on RK1 ::.
    .:: Stigmartyr : 220 / 30 / 70 : Opi Shade (Neutral) : Piercing Princess ::.
    .:: Levinstein : 220 / 30 / 70 : Opi Agent : Sneaky Sniper ::.
    .:: Lexstein : 150 / 20 / 42 : Trox Engineer : Sector Ten : Currently the ONLY 150/20/42 Trox Engi on RK1 ::.

  17. #77
    Well I've always thought that fling shot cap was 6s + weapon attack time. So if calcs always count towards 7s, they might be a bit off, up and down.

  18. #78
    it is 6 seconds + weap attack speed. Since AO doesn't make it where it benefits you from having a slower weapon, it is always assumed that you'll be running with a 1 (or a bit higher, but never 2+) s attack speed weapon.
    220/30 - Spartanx9. Back for a good while.

    Quote Originally Posted by Haquihana
    Haquihana: And Spartanx9, I dont usually spend much time in the soldier forums.. you all don't make enough rucus (NOTE: this is not a message of approval to go cause unjust trouble)
    Sounds like i need to cause some trouble I kid i kid

  19. #79
    Quote Originally Posted by Spartanx9 View Post
    it is 6 seconds + weap attack speed. Since AO doesn't make it where it benefits you from having a slower weapon, it is always assumed that you'll be running with a 1 (or a bit higher, but never 2+) s attack speed weapon.
    So in effect we should be expressing it as...

    XXXX FS skill for 7 second cycle

    ...with the +Attack accounted for as we do with FA / Burst

    XXXX FA skill for 11 second cycle

    XXXX Burst skill for 9 second cycle

    Meaning that all the people who think they have a 6 sec Fling are....wrong? ...because its already accepted (maybe) that min fling cap is 6 sec + min 1 (from attack speed).

    If the saying '6 sec fling' is correct (coz the +Attack is ignored) then wouldn't that mean FA would be 10 secs and Burst 8 secs? ...to maintain consistency.

    I know theres terms / formulae are almost 'set in stone', but somewhere something isn't being expressed correctly or clearly...or so I believe.
    .:: Stigman : 220 / 30 / 70 : NM Engineer (PVM 35% Crit) : I Make It, You Buy It : FIRST Omni NM Engi to hit 220/30/70 on RK1 ::.
    .:: Stigmartyr : 220 / 30 / 70 : Opi Shade (Neutral) : Piercing Princess ::.
    .:: Levinstein : 220 / 30 / 70 : Opi Agent : Sneaky Sniper ::.
    .:: Lexstein : 150 / 20 / 42 : Trox Engineer : Sector Ten : Currently the ONLY 150/20/42 Trox Engi on RK1 ::.

  20. #80
    Yes, you are correct in that Stig in that we should probably express it that way, though if people want to experiment with weapons that aren't the standard 1s Attk, or if AO suddenly goes backwards and slower weapon speeds mean much more powerful weapons, then it would be best to keep it at the hard cap + attack speed. IF one of the profs wouldn't mind rewriting the specials so that they are uniform in either assumed caps (7/9/11) or expressed as cap + attack speed, it would be appreciated.
    220/30 - Spartanx9. Back for a good while.

    Quote Originally Posted by Haquihana
    Haquihana: And Spartanx9, I dont usually spend much time in the soldier forums.. you all don't make enough rucus (NOTE: this is not a message of approval to go cause unjust trouble)
    Sounds like i need to cause some trouble I kid i kid

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