PLEASE make the game more PvP oriented!

[_______________Vydas]

If you really think that the majority of players now would put up with more PvP zones (nobody in the ones that exist now), you are kidding yourselves.

And, you may think you won't care if 90 percent of the people playing now leave, but you will. It will include your friends, and it will also include enough people that a company already in some financial difficulty would potentially not be able to support it at all.

More PvP areas, more restrictions on me (including if I am even allowed to select a side or not, lol, who on earth do you think you are?) = cancelled subscriptions. You really and truly need to get a grasp on that, because it is a plain, hard, cold fact.

[Czarina]

Originally posted by Flak "Stromm" Tempest
Thats the whole point of this post, to improve pvp and show that carebears who want to only fight mobs and collect rare items are RUINING this game.

hmmm ruining this game...

let's see, someone who doesn't PvP should have no impact on someone who does.....

someone who PvP's is probably 10 times more likely to use an exploit... seems like everyone who got banned PvP'd

Would it be better for the game to lose 10% of it's player base or 90% of its player base if it had to make a choice...


What's real funny is that you aren't clever enough to relize is that those "carebears" are screwing up YOUR VISION of the game... a vision that is only shared with 10% of the player base.

Why should FC ever program for 10% of the player base? In your original post you should change the sentence "What do we want?" to read "What does an insignificant portion of the playerbase want?"

Funcom keeps breaking promises. A common misconception these days is that MMORPGs the main goal is to 'get the best items and become uber.' This is such a stupid goal, and obviously was not the roots of this game, however it is growing into it. AO's unique feature is that it is a sci-fi MMORPG, perhaps they can accomplish the goal of not only being the first sci-fi MMORPG but a PvP oriented one as well.

A common misconception by PvP's is that most people want to do it. The goal of the game is to level and roleplay... that's why it is a MMORPG. A ROLEPLAYING GAME. Most PvP's I have met have no concept of role play... I have met a few that were very good at it too, though...

[stromm]

Originally posted by Vydas
If you really think that the majority of players now would put up with more PvP zones (nobody in the ones that exist now), you are kidding yourselves.

And, you may think you won't care if 90 percent of the people playing now leave, but you will. It will include your friends, and it will also include enough people that a company already in some financial difficulty would potentially not be able to support it at all.

More PvP areas, more restrictions on me (including if I am even allowed to select a side or not, lol, who on earth do you think you are?) = cancelled subscriptions. You really and truly need to get a grasp on that, because it is a plain, hard, cold fact.

lol..all these things your saying right now in this post was already adressed by me in my other posts on the 3rd page. 90 percent of the people playing will not leave. PvMers visit 3 zones why do they even care about the things around them...wait...4...Camelot, lol.

I dont know where you got the 'select a side' crap either...But making neutral tweaked out a bit more might put a pacifier on your loud mouths and any pvp changes would not bother you. But then again maybe it would because not everyone is doing the same as you are. Like i said, AO was supposed to be primed for pvp.


"A common misconception by PvP's is that most people want to do it. The goal of the game is to level and roleplay... that's why it is a MMORPG. A ROLEPLAYING GAME. Most PvP's I have met have no concept of role play... I have met a few that were very good at it too, though"

Funny how you distinguish PvPer and roleplayer, its back to my point about people standing for hours around the CoT building while omnis are ganking clanners in their own arena... The goal of a MMORPG was NEVER to roleplay, if so there would not be such a free environment in them. Not even EQ'ers RP and they're full of carebears. What exactly is your definition of roleplaying? the laughable state it is in now?

Who you meet does not concern me one bit because you have shown me you know abseloutley nothing about PvP. But yes, you're right about one thing. LEVEL up. And you'll see why i am posting this.

"hmmm ruining this game...

let's see, someone who doesn't PvP should have no impact on someone who does.....

someone who PvP's is probably 10 times more likely to use an exploit... seems like everyone who got banned PvP'd

Would it be better for the game to lose 10% of it's player base or 90% of its player base if it had to make a choice...


What's real funny is that you aren't clever enough to relize is that those "carebears" are screwing up YOUR VISION of the game... a vision that is only shared with 10% of the player base.

Why should FC ever program for 10% of the player base? In your original post you should change the sentence "What do we want?" to read "What does an insignificant portion of the playerbase want?""

No **** sherlock, someone who doesnt pvp shouldnt have a impact on someone who does so shut up about what you don't know anything pretaining to, in this case, not only this thread but PvP itself. Unless you are stating that a PvMer is going to know more about PvP than one who does PvP...lmao

The exploit part is just the life of the party. Ever hear of Nikkidial? The first AO camper who got all the mob item drops, sold for credits, and made 11,000 dollars off of ebay. Banned? definately. A lot of PvPers have been banned for ebaying. Now name me some PvPers who have been banned for using combat exploits. I've seen traders cast debuffs from behind buildings, sure, thats an exploit. If you knew anything about the history of this game you'd know that there was 5 times more PvM exploits used in this game than there ever was in PvP. I suppose 'intellectual people' like you who have no concept of PvP have some way of generalizing that all PvPers are interested in 'ownzoring' 'griefing' 'exploiting' and are dirty SOBs with no manners. All this flak we get for wanting a challenge in the game. And a point to the 150+ aspect of the game.

Your last part of your post shows to me that you too did not take the time to read all of my posts. Currently you are correct about more people PvM'ing than PvPing. A lot of my friends don't pvp because they say its boring, or their class is gimped, or that they will get the hang of it some other time. The whole point of this thread is to ****e up pvp a little, and numbers DO NOT matter in this case. AO didn't promise some lame-ass carebear game. So thus they need to stay on track.

If the changes are made that i am asking for PvP will be a lot more exciting. All this stuff is only going to go on in pvp zones i really dont understand what you carebears are so worried about. You visit 4 zones, yet you don't want the ones you never go to to be improved or the environments of them, improved. 90 percent of people leaving? Why would they do that. Their ignorant item-zealous and jealous style of playing will continue to be around, and they in no way be affected. In fact, it wouldn't be 90 percent of the people not pvping, and 10 percent of people pvping. It would even out more, because PvP has more ****e to it. I keep adressing this point about the 'player percentages' and you don't seem to get it through your thick skulls.

And let me sort through this liberal crap. 'My vision?' No, FC's vision and i am supporting them on keeping their eyes on the ball. You got your ql 300 bosses. You got your 75% suppression zones. You got your dynacamps. Now put a sock in it. It's our turn for improvements. AO IS A PVP-ROOTED GAME IF YOU DO NOT WANT TO PVP GO BACK TO FREAKING EVERQUEST. Good day.

[_______________Vydas]

You seem not to understand me. Of course I will leave . So will a lot of other people who are underwriting your fun. I don't mind doing that, as long as it has 0 and I do mean 0 impact on my fun.

Actually, I go to PvP zones all the time. If it's not in a place people can hug their titles, I see nobody, ever. Why confine 90 percent of the population? Why not confine the 10? It's shooting yourself in the foot to penalize the people that pay the bills.

As for AO being a PvP rooted game, it isn't, it never has been. If it were, you wouldn't be making these posts now. You may have wanted it that way, but that doesn't make it so.

[stromm]

Attention Deficit Disorder, or just ignorance?

I just explained that more people would pvp if it was improved. God damn. how many times do i have to say that to you people.

AO isn't a pvp rooted game? i suppose you missed my point about how so many nano lines and weapons and items were meant especially for pvp. And the fact there are two warring factions..which is why i think the 'neutral' side needs to be reworked.

You obviously havent been around before 14.2 if you think AO was never a pvp rooted game. Before all the nerfs to PvP there was a TON of people pvping. There is a few now and as i said pvp will return to its former glory if some attention is given to it and for some reason you guys seem to have a problem with tweaking zones you never visit, adding pvp zones, and dividing some of that dominant FC attention so PvPers get a little fun too. But no, you cannot do that.

"Of course I will leave"

If you meant leave this thread, you're making the right decision because *clearly* you do not have the information needed to present a worthwhile argument.

[Jynne]

You're about a hundred miles away from my point, Stromm. I'm sorry, but that's about the size of it.

First, I believe PvPers are a more vocal/active board segment because they whine and rant - yes, quite possibly for noble reasons - out of all proportion with anyone. PvPers like yourself post alot and post longer posts than most carebears. It is fairly reasonable to suggest that if there is a poll regarding PvP, PvPers who see it are more likely to answer it, no? PvPers see themselves as having more 'stake' in the game and its code changes therefore I believe that yes they are more active on the boards - both as a percentage of their actual numbers and certainly in postcount and vehemence, as you yourself are an example of. PvPers care and want to be heard, and therefore you are more active. Do you disagree with that assessment?

Second, I didn't say 'balancing PvP' and making it enjoyable in its existing areas would make people leave. I said balancing PvP across the broad range of levels in AO is impossible because PvM is the only way to gain power and that expanding PvP to more areas and taking away peoples' choices about engaging in PvP play would have the effect of making people leave, partly on account of people liking choices and heavily on account of ganking.

If you make it easy to gank, people will gank. Remember, gankers are generally lazy and indifferent by nature. They will follow the path of least resistance to 'the top' - ie, easy kills. Griefers are a different species, one which is actively sadistic by nature and THEY are a small percentage of people (at least, I like to think so). Gankers aren't very populous at the moment because there aren't too many places for them to be successful at it, being that people going to the 'traveled' PvP zones are usually prepared to either fight back or escape. For clarity's sake, on a bumper sticker: Gankers attack targets of opportunity. Therefore the number of gankers will rise and fall with the number of targets of opportunity. Targets of opportunity is practically synonymous with newbies.

Newbies need to PvM. Even if they want to PvP, even if that's why they bought the game, they need to PvM first. The only way to be successful in PvP, at any level... heck, the only way to even have a snowball's chance in hell at PvP at any level... is to first be successful in PvM. You can't deny that. PvP is not for new players. If it's forced on them, they'll quit as soon as they realize there's very little chance for them: getting killed by someone you can hardly scratch a few seconds after wandering into a 25% zone or going there on a mission or otherwise being in the normal course of gameplay isn't very fun, and people who have just started don't have an emotional stake in the game.

At rock bottom my point is as follows: People are people. Every online game since the first time people played a DikuMUD has had gankers and griefers. AO isn't any different and I can't see a reason to give those people more tools and opportunities. They drive off the 'noble and honorable' PvPers who get disgusted with them just as much as they drive off newbies. Carebears, actually, are more resistant to being driven off; they're less willing to abandon their advancement-to-date since that is what they have been paying and playing for.

Not giving newbies a decent chance to get started is the best way to destroy a game ever devised by a game designer, especially a multiplayer game. The playerbase will practically stagnate, with people who quit due to attrition not being replaced, causing revenues to go down. This will start a vicious circle where falling revenue results in bad design decisions driven by business needs (ie, the need for more revenue) and geared toward attracting new players. Retaining existing players will be back-burnered due to lack of resources... starting to see a familiar pattern?

[Gearbox]

Originally posted by Flak "Stromm" Tempest
LOL - Another misuse of the term 'ganking.'

Ganking = Attacking a player in a neutral environment such as the arena WHILE someone is dueling or without their consent.

I'd say the exact definition of that term is open for debate, Stromm. Five level 200's killing a level 75 is a ganking. You can disagree all you like, but you're still wrong.

Originally posted by Flak "Stromm" Tempest
Your defintion reminds me of the level 75s who come into 2ho and expect not to be killed by me because they're 'missioning.' Gotta love these little heart-stomached carebears who call everyone who fires a bullet in their direction a 'ganker.'

You can make a strawman argument if you want- but that's not what I'm talking about. I don't really understand why you'd try to suggest that it is. Short of poor reading comprehension.

Again, for the slow, what I said was that unrestricted PvP is mostly appealing to jerkwads. Catering to jerkwads leads to a jerkwad community. Jerkwad communities drive out the good people.

Originally posted by Flak "Stromm" Tempest
IF YOU ARE:

Not 150+...
Not experienced in PvP and/or not a hardcore pvp'er...

Then do not bother voicing your opinion here. I expect people to know what theyre talking about ...

Yep. Just the sort of moron I'd expect to push for PvP ideas.

BTW- I meet your silly level requirement for speaking, but alas, not your PvP requirement. I don't have to PvP alot to know that most PvPers are ***holes.

You're a good example, Stromm.

[Chartan]

What's real funny is that you aren't clever enough to relize is that those "carebears" are screwing up YOUR VISION of the game... a vision that is only shared with 10% of the player base.

Why should FC ever program for 10% of the player base? In your original post you should change the sentence "What do we want?" to read "What does an insignificant portion of the playerbase want?""


What I find most funny is that player base as you call it. Look at these comparisons driven to this state by the gankers of this game. I need to say I agree that PvP should be fixed, but it is a very hard job to do so without losing the current PvP'ers (who thrive on their knowledge of exploits that they used once, but never got punished for)

Player base
Anarchy Online Less than 10,000
Everquest 300,000
Ultima Online 200,000
Daoc 120,000

Go figure....

Notice: Anarchy Online is the online game that does NOT support any roleplaying and is thus a MMOPG not a MMORPG

[sarv]

ok.. first of all.. where the hell did u people get the idea that only 10% of the players PvP ? who did ever give u that Number???

owww, thats right... its a GUESS!!!

secondly, all u who say's, blah blah blah not about PvP.
THIS GAME IS ABOUT PVP... did u ever read the story line???

thirdly, if u took your time to read the whole post here u would mabe have seen that we was working on a system THAT DID NOT EFFEKT THOSE WHO DONT WANNA PVP. read it, i personaly think it could work. :P

fourthly, why is no people PvP'ing eny more? CUZ THEY QUIT!
And are being replaced with people that havent been playing long enuf to know that PvP is important, actualy it is THE MOST IMPORTANT part of the game. Wanna know why?

Becouse it only takes so much time to get lvl 200 and what then?
Whats after lvl 200 is not Roleplaying AND PvP?
Think Lvl 200's will ever do a mission to get xp agen? HAH Or go outside and Hunt agen? HAH!

PvP is the "endgame" and since it dont work, people quit as soon or soon after they get there.

another thing is that the 10% idea is way way wrong.
maybe most of the players dont PvP yet, but they sure as hell will later on, say 160+.

Only few make it to 160+ hence the low numbers of PvP'ers in game.

Let me ask u guys, since u are so hellbent on PvP not being important... what are u gonna do if/when u hit 200?

[sarv]

Originally posted by Chartan
Notice: Anarchy Online is the online game that does NOT support any roleplaying and is thus a MMOPG not a MMORPG

HAHAHA... some 1 needs to go find the Roleplaying Comunity.

[______________Wahoo.]

Originally posted by Sarv
ok.. first of all.. where the hell did u people get the idea that only 10% of the players PvP ? who did ever give u that Number???

owww, thats right... its a GUESS!!!

secondly, all u who say's, blah blah blah not about PvP.
THIS GAME IS ABOUT PVP... did u ever read the story line???

thirdly, if u took your time to read the whole post here u would mabe have seen that we was working on a system THAT DID NOT EFFEKT THOSE WHO DONT WANNA PVP. read it, i personaly think it could work. :P

fourthly, why is no people PvP'ing eny more? CUZ THEY QUIT!
And are being replaced with people that havent been playing long enuf to know that PvP is important, actualy it is THE MOST IMPORTANT part of the game. Wanna know why?

Becouse it only takes so much time to get lvl 200 and what then?
Whats after lvl 200 is not Roleplaying AND PvP?
Think Lvl 200's will ever do a mission to get xp agen? HAH Or go outside and Hunt agen? HAH!

PvP is the "endgame" and since it dont work, people quit as soon or soon after they get there.

another thing is that the 10% idea is way way wrong.
maybe most of the players dont PvP yet, but they sure as hell will later on, say 160+.

Only few make it to 160+ hence the low numbers of PvP'ers in game.

Let me ask u guys, since u are so hellbent on PvP not being important... what are u gonna do if/when u hit 200?

Man i understand how you feel. Look the carebears win!!
Funcom has been changing the suppression gas to 75% . It seems funcom wants all pvp to be in MMD, 2h0 or arena's.
Fine, i can live with that till another game comes along.

Cause if they change this to a non pvp game in out.
Just my 5 cents.

[sarv]

What the Carebears Fail to realise is that in a not so distant future they WILL! them self fight for more PvP since they are getting board and are out of other stuff to do.

Ofcouse the people fighting for PvP now will have quit by then, so we are not gonna be abel to say: "told u so".
Altho it would have been nice.

[______________Wahoo.]

Originally posted by Sarv
What the Carebears Fail to realise is that in a not so distant future they WILL! them self fight for more PvP since they are getting board and are out of other stuff to do.

Ofcouse the people fighting for PvP now will have quit by then, so we are not gonna be abel to say: "told u so".
Altho it would have been nice.

true ..

[_______________Ackos]

Hi guys,

Im NOT a PvPr however i feel EVERY zone (except noob) should be PvP there is a WAR going on! There would need to be some simple rules in place:

-Lvl restrictions: LvL of player +- say 10 or 15 lvls
Example a lvl 50 can PvP with lvls 35 to 75
If PC cons grey, can only PvP if attacked.
Would apply to buffs, heals also

-Bad Faction for killing same Faction PC or NPC (clan killing clan etc)

-Option to not be PvP, that could only be changed once a week? or cost 50% of your $$?

[Chartan]

HAHAHA... some 1 needs to go find the Roleplaying Comunity.


LOL Sarv.... I have been looking for such since I started playing in beta and I have only seen pathetic attempts at it and it is not that I havent been around or in the wrong places. The game support just sucks at this, because... its a PvP game

I agree to make all areas PvP areas. But... in a war Clanners would not be allowed to use the grid or the whompahs that are in Omni-Tek areas. The special Omni-Pol guards standing around would be a hell of a lot tougher like level 250 and mulitple guards in each location and gate to all cities, so no level 200 clanner would be able to get into the omni-tek city and this by force not by weird game rules.

Of course, these things that HAVE to be in place would completely lag the servers so noone would be able to move much... come to think about it, maybe Funcom is actually trying to calculate the right ways of doing pvp....

[stromm]

Originally posted by Blue Cat


I'd say the exact definition of that term is open for debate, Stromm. Five level 200's killing a level 75 is a ganking. You can disagree all you like, but you're still wrong.



You can make a strawman argument if you want- but that's not what I'm talking about. I don't really understand why you'd try to suggest that it is. Short of poor reading comprehension.

Again, for the slow, what I said was that unrestricted PvP is mostly appealing to jerkwads. Catering to jerkwads leads to a jerkwad community. Jerkwad communities drive out the good people.



Yep. Just the sort of moron I'd expect to push for PvP ideas.

BTW- I meet your silly level requirement for speaking, but alas, not your PvP requirement. I don't have to PvP alot to know that most PvPers are ***holes.

You're a good example, Stromm.

LOL! You admit you do not pvp but you claim that you know more about what 'ganking' means. You're a good example. IN A WAR ZONE if a level 75 zones into 25% why wouldnt the level 200s kill him? The object of that zone is war, and they will shoot whoever they wish. You also admit you do not pvp and you say that 'most pvpers are *******s.' Lets hear some more of your 'good examples,' eh?

And yes you do need to pvp alot to find out that not all pvp'ers are *******s, infact a higher percentage of them are good people. Hell, i get it all the time by people that 'im a good person' but when someone is wrong in a debate i will point that out. Everybody gets offended when thats pointed out these days when they speak about things they dont have a clue about. Go figure, political correctness.

"Again, for the slow, what I said was that unrestricted PvP is mostly appealing to jerkwads. Catering to jerkwads leads to a jerkwad community. Jerkwad communities drive out the good people."

I suppose thats the reason why i find so much good sportsmanship in 25% zones...
You dont know anything about our community and you go on about this 'jerkwad' bull****. When people pvp they know they have a chance of dying. It's people who really need to get their head checked when they say that 'that guys an ******* because he killed me in pvp wahh wahh wahh' do you expect them to walk up to you in 25% and challenge you to a duel, and give you the choice to consent? Man, you're such an idiot. Go back to everquest, please. Your idea of ''restricted pvp'' is not applicable because you do not know anything about the concept and the way pvp works in this game. Note, that all the pvp'ers who have posted here agree with me. You do not pvp so you have a contrary opinion simply because you haven't experienced anything of it.

Please tell me why you continue to use your pen-and-paper arguments on this thread, and you do not present any arguments that have anything to do with the reality of PvP. You twist PvP definitions as though you know things about it similar to how in real life people from other religions like to interpret another religion in a bad way purposely. The basis of it all is ignorance, and you are a symbol of it.

[stromm]

Originally posted by Jynne
You're about a hundred miles away from my point, Stromm. I'm sorry, but that's about the size of it.

First, I believe PvPers are a more vocal/active board segment because they whine and rant - yes, quite possibly for noble reasons - out of all proportion with anyone. PvPers like yourself post alot and post longer posts than most carebears. It is fairly reasonable to suggest that if there is a poll regarding PvP, PvPers who see it are more likely to answer it, no? PvPers see themselves as having more 'stake' in the game and its code changes therefore I believe that yes they are more active on the boards - both as a percentage of their actual numbers and certainly in postcount and vehemence, as you yourself are an example of. PvPers care and want to be heard, and therefore you are more active. Do you disagree with that assessment?

Second, I didn't say 'balancing PvP' and making it enjoyable in its existing areas would make people leave. I said balancing PvP across the broad range of levels in AO is impossible because PvM is the only way to gain power and that expanding PvP to more areas and taking away peoples' choices about engaging in PvP play would have the effect of making people leave, partly on account of people liking choices and heavily on account of ganking.

If you make it easy to gank, people will gank. Remember, gankers are generally lazy and indifferent by nature. They will follow the path of least resistance to 'the top' - ie, easy kills. Griefers are a different species, one which is actively sadistic by nature and THEY are a small percentage of people (at least, I like to think so). Gankers aren't very populous at the moment because there aren't too many places for them to be successful at it, being that people going to the 'traveled' PvP zones are usually prepared to either fight back or escape. For clarity's sake, on a bumper sticker: Gankers attack targets of opportunity. Therefore the number of gankers will rise and fall with the number of targets of opportunity. Targets of opportunity is practically synonymous with newbies.

Newbies need to PvM. Even if they want to PvP, even if that's why they bought the game, they need to PvM first. The only way to be successful in PvP, at any level... heck, the only way to even have a snowball's chance in hell at PvP at any level... is to first be successful in PvM. You can't deny that. PvP is not for new players. If it's forced on them, they'll quit as soon as they realize there's very little chance for them: getting killed by someone you can hardly scratch a few seconds after wandering into a 25% zone or going there on a mission or otherwise being in the normal course of gameplay isn't very fun, and people who have just started don't have an emotional stake in the game.

At rock bottom my point is as follows: People are people. Every online game since the first time people played a DikuMUD has had gankers and griefers. AO isn't any different and I can't see a reason to give those people more tools and opportunities. They drive off the 'noble and honorable' PvPers who get disgusted with them just as much as they drive off newbies. Carebears, actually, are more resistant to being driven off; they're less willing to abandon their advancement-to-date since that is what they have been paying and playing for.

Not giving newbies a decent chance to get started is the best way to destroy a game ever devised by a game designer, especially a multiplayer game. The playerbase will practically stagnate, with people who quit due to attrition not being replaced, causing revenues to go down. This will start a vicious circle where falling revenue results in bad design decisions driven by business needs (ie, the need for more revenue) and geared toward attracting new players. Retaining existing players will be back-burnered due to lack of resources... starting to see a familiar pattern?

Yes i think its true, that ADD is rampant in the carebear community. And no i'm not talking about an extra mob aggro'd to you.

Again, you have abseloutley 0 say on the pvp community because you do not know any of it and you totally twist the concept of it to your carebear liking. But even if post counts meant a damn, i could say that the pvp forum has more of a post count than 'Game Mechanics' or several other forums do. I have seen a lot of people pvp, and not all of them post. You on the other hand cannot argue this with me because you are clueless about pvp making assumptions to your own taste acting like you know what you are talking about. You further prove my point that carebears on this thread like to talk out of their rear.

"Second, I didn't say 'balancing PvP' and making it enjoyable in its existing areas would make people leave. I said balancing PvP across the broad range of levels in AO is impossible because PvM is the only way to gain power and that expanding PvP to more areas and taking away peoples' choices about engaging in PvP play would have the effect of making people leave, partly on account of people liking choices and heavily on account of ganking."

You are just like Blue Carebear. You make assuptions and pretend you know what pvp terminology means yet you don't pvp and call every single time you die a 'gank.' Good lord, grow up. You die in video games. Don't cry over it, you spawn again and can go back...jesus.

And for the last god damn time i never said make pvm more worthless than it already is or ignore it!!! 'Existing pvp zones?' i should let you count how many there are, and how many there are possibly, with 14.5 out and all. You do not know what elements in pvp would make people leave or not because, again...

You do not PvP.

I know PvM is required to build up your character, please tell me when did i state the suppression in cities should always be an innate 25%, or that missions/mobs should be removed altogether?

There are peopl who say there needs to be a server with all zones 0% or 25%. I disagree with them because i know of things that might happen such as reclaim terminal camping, and even making a gas radius around it wouldn't help one bit. If you knew me at all you'd know im not just looking for some quake-kill game, but no you go on with your carebear assumptions and brush off all the pvp'ers as if you know them all well just like FC is. This game, again, was directed at pvp. Nano lines, and the whole concept of 'clan vs omni.' PvM should not be nerfed altogether but PvP should remain more dominant. You NEED to have expanded amounts of pvp zones because there is too few of them and practically no where now that 14.5 is launched. You of course will never understand this unless you pvp. Every pvp'er i ask agrees, this game is becoming too much like everquest's 'blue servers.'

"You're about a hundred miles away from my point, Stromm. I'm sorry, but that's about the size of it."

You're about a hundred miles from knowing what the hell you're talking about. You come on as a carebear acting like you know about pvp...That's like a pacifist who has never seen any combat in his or her life saying they know more than the veterans, the people who actually experienced, were informed and dealt with what was going on. All the while these ignorant people sit on the side lines nitpicking at every little thing they can.

Real life examples i know, but it is very comparable to this. The only people who know the truth are the people who fought the wars, the people who died for people's right to talk trash about them, the politicians who fought hard to keep their countries safe, and the hard decisions made that would impact the fate of the world. The pacifists and the history books will only show things in black and white, causing a vast strain and lack of understanding within everyday people. I see this as no different. Those pvp'ers who fight in pvp and have met good people will be contended by those who have a painted picture and label those they don't know with all sorts of slur such as the misuse of the term 'ganker.'

As for your last 3 paragraphs, i do see a 'pattern.' You keep on saying things about PvP you have to experience to know about, your generalizations just further prove how ignorant you are. FFS again, i never said newbies didnt need to pvm, i never said anyone didnt need to pvm, you are totally confusing yourself with your lack of knowledge on the subject at hand. Pat yourself on the back, for stirring ****, the original goal of all carebears on this thread who like to come in and talk about what they don't know to tick off people.

[Jynne]

Stromm, if my (assumed on your part) lack of PvP experience disqualifies me from having valid opinions on PvP, what is your game design experience that gives you the right to opine on game design issues?

For that matter, have you ever worked in the software development field at all?

[Naraya]

Hehehe...wow...flamage going back and forth...time to jump in...

Polls have been taken, opinions have been expressed...the PvPers want PvP improvements, the PvMers want PvM improvements. Being that these two take place (primarily) in completely different playfields, what's the problem?

What most fail to realize is that the human mind can only take so much repetition before your patience starts to wear thin. Compound that with the many problems of the PvM game and you have a breeding ground for insanity. The only 'content' PvM needs now is functionality fixes and maybe a tweak to the ridiculous level curve (yes...ridiculous). Consider:

It took me 13 million+ XP to get from 149 to 150.
To get from 199 to 200, it will take over 74 million XP.

I say it is ridiculous after considering that traversing from TL4 to TL6 requires repetitive killing of the same kinds of mobs over and over again. You can add all the outdoor content you want, you will still won't remove the tedious boredom of getting from TL4 to TL6.

PvP is the ONLY chance this game has at keeping its higher level players around. The ONLY chance. The current PvP implementation will fail that task almost 100% of the time....

For there to be war, there must be a motive...a reason. There is no reason to PvP in this game other than Tarasque lewts or PvP Titles. LAME.

In the real world, the bastards who run this world have induced war after war over black gold (read: OIL). Our cars need this. Our planes needs this. Our boats need this. Our frying pans even sometimes need it. Without some valuable resource like that in Rubi-Ka (and some mechanism which generates the need for it by consumption), there's no basis for conflict, no reason for war.

The different professions were all made with a purpose that I think FunCom has lost sight of...their role in the war that does not exist on Rubi-Ka. Consider:

If it were such that PvP-viable weapons no longer dropped off mobs, but were obtained purely via tradeskill, Engineers might have more of a reason to put themselves through leveling hell.

If it were such that certain organizations within the alignment contained a few top notch Engineers who needed Traders to deal the goods they produce around to other organizations, Traders might have more of a reason to put themselves through leveling hell.

If it were such that war was costly and diplomatic solutions were favorable, Bureaucrats might have more of a reason to put themselves through leveling hell.

If there were environments that REQUIRED some sort of useful map reading / navigation ability to which only the Adventurers were capable of possessing, Adventurers would have more of a reason to put themselves through leveling hell.

PvP should not focus on one versus one combat. This was not supposed to be some martial arts tournament where combatents faced each other in a civilized artistic manner. The storyline reeks of war, and when I think war...when I see war...I don't see anyone trying to make the fighting grounds "equal". I see carnage....lots of it.

[stromm]

No, i do not work for the gaming industry.

Any computer game design i've ever been involved with was the Fallout series, helping to make mods for multiplayer, fooling around with fallout:tactics editor, and the single player versions as well. I admit i'm not a computer whiz but i do have some understanding.

Regardless, game 'design' or how its made isn't the issue here. I'm talking game improvements, more profession balance. You might say it 'isn't possible' but again it relates to the fact that you do not PvP that invalidates these statements. You don't have to be educated in C+++ to understand game balance and mechanics. For someone to say what's balanced and whats not, and what should be added and shouldn't be added pertaining to a topic they know nothing about except for metalmouth terminology, rumors, generalizations and assumptions, is absurd.

As i said. People will never know more about wars than the people who fight in them.

PvP is nothing that can be drawn out on pen and paper. Niether is the community. If you opened your mind up a little, you would realize this. But let's hear the response to Sarv's question, 'what will you do when you become level 200?' What CAN you do besides pvp, or quit? Really nothing. You will realize why i harbor these opinions soon enough, i hope.

On the other hand i'd like to talk to a level 200 who has PvMed throughout their entire game span and never fired a bullet in a player's general direction that can tell me that 'they enjoy the game.' Most level 200s have quit.

As Sarv pointed out 'someone needs to look for the RP community.' What RP community? Is there any? You'll look a long darn time, heh =) AO is a game that supports RP, they just do it laughably. But nevertheless, i do not care about roleplaying. People who say PvPers are just out to grief are some of the same ones who train mobs or refuse to buff others because of their opposite alignments. Instead of helping the common man, they will fall short to their own worthless ingame beliefs. Also, they scream and yell at people who kill guards to test their weapons, despite the fact this technological individual is going to respawn in the next 6 seconds.

That's why i love PvP. If you can handle dying and not take it so personally you can meet some great people. It's automatically assumed these days by carebears that if you die in pvp you were 'ganked' by a 'heartless' person. I know that i have died countless times in pvp, and have made good friends with both my battle comrades, and enemies. It's good sportsmanship that is the key here. People just overreact when they die in MMORPGs, i've seen it in every single one i've played.

RP also can be defined in many ways. being an 'RPer' doesnt necessarily mean you are going to scream and yell at someone who kills guards. So i think these people who say 'MMORPG = ROLEPLAYING GAME' need to lay off a bit. Just because i buffed an omni with run in high suppression where no one is going to be hurt, that doesn't make me a bad guy. It's roleplayers that cause a good amount of grief to people, one far more lasting than PvP death anger. I think people need to open their eyes a little bit at why roleplaying isn't done. People are just too sensitive. Human nature though, so i don't mind.

If you die, remember: It's just a game. If it causes you to leave, maybe you were better off not playing video games in the first place.