FC....Plz Be Fair with Enforcer

[Nival]

quote thingy Thunderham wrote..
Thunderham Just want to say this:
Enforcer's Challanger nano will make nano-shutdown for 2min and why the MA's nano only have 10-20 sec nano-shutdown.......

I think this is not fair to our Enforcer and plz make the penalty a bit less cuz you guys cange MA's one and why not make change for Enforcer's..........



HAHAHAHA no way!


ok MA buffs those dmg buffs give (well mine gives 69 more dmg but the shutdown is 30 seconds BUT! the enfs get more dmg more skills from those challenger buff something like 69 2hd blunt? well...?

[_____________Cloudehxx]

Originally posted by MSag
Lol Cloudeh you claiming 1400+ atk dont help just because you had ****ty hits once? Thats BS.

Have you ever had 1403 attack rating and used Mighty challenger to behemoth and used a QL 200 Native alloy staff and a QL 200 Premium Lead Pipe, with 21% Crit Chance and 39% crit chance for a few seconds.

I have told people MANY times that my damage is RANDOM And usually crap, unless I crit.

Then this CAN happen

Pr this


But those two times are the only times I have seen challenger help

[Earthmonster]

Originally posted by Nyderach


k, this is the kind of stuff I'm getting fairly tired of. 'Hey, that profession can do something that we can't do.. that's unbalanced!'. Argh.. why not just ask FC to cut AO's choices down to one race and one profession, problem solved?

Too many people seem to have trouble grasping the concept of "different professions".. I mean really, everytime some prof gets an advantage over another, people start crying nerf. And then you guys wonder why FC is running back and forth nerfing professions instead of adding content/fixing bugs?

I've seen engineers running around complaining that their trade skills aren't as good a trader's.. um? I've seen MA's running around complaining that engineers have a better MA buff than they do.. even though engineers can't use it till like level 180. People complaining about agents using FP/AP/MP.. well that got nerfed too, grats. People complaining that their profession isn't as good at PvP as that other profession.. NERF!

Please realize.. professions are going to have advantages over each other, as well as disadvantages. Quit screaming for nerfs everytime someone else gets the ability to do something you can't.. only thing that's going to achieve is a very pissed off community and absolutely no additional content due to FC running wildly about nerfing professions because MYPROFESSIONHERE doesn't have as many god damn cool nano-programs as YOURPROFESSIONHERE.

^not directed at anyone in particular.. i'd just like to see more fixes/content, and less profession nerfs in every patch. kthx

NEEEEEEEEEEEEEERRRFFFF!!!!

God I have grown too hate that word! I totally agree on this subject nerfing is not the answer. I am a lvl 193 Atrox Enf and in pvp has had a hard time against a Smurf, I have even lost. Now I think the GA4 is quite extrodinary but i dunno if nerfing is the answer, I do know i am much more carefull when i ask one for a fight now =).

As for this damn bracer nerf I look at it this way. I spent from lvl 169-177 doing solo team missions looting everything too locate my full set of title 5 bracers. It was a long and grueling process which has paid off in the end. Now I am told that they are going to be almost useless, BAH! This is unfair for a few reasons-- 1) What about the people who do not pvp and how much these bracers help when hunting and fighting NPCs. 2)The bracers are still located in the game so if u cry about someone else having an advantage, STOP!! Get off yer lazy A** and go get your own, this isnt like LLTS that were completely removed from game and made it so that if you didn't have one yer screwed. 3)I do not think FC should listen so hard to those that PVP when making these decisions,just because someone was owned in a pvp match doesnt mean the other had all advantage, has anyone heard of being beaten by someone with just more skill?

[Myga]

Originally posted by Cloudeh


Have you ever had 1403 attack rating and used Mighty challenger to behemoth and used a QL 200 Native alloy staff and a QL 200 Premium Lead Pipe, with 21% Crit Chance and 39% crit chance for a few seconds.

I have told people MANY times that my damage is RANDOM And usually crap, unless I crit.

Then this CAN happen

Pr this


But those two times are the only times I have seen challenger help

Yes its random but on avg its alot better than 780 atk which you claimed in your initial post. You know as agent with gnats wing I can have 10shots for 300 dmg or I can have 8-9crits for 4500. Now I could make a screenshot when I have 10x300dmg and claim Gnats sucks and that would be comparable to what you just did. But I dont, I think gnats is good except it cost too much nano. You can say challenger isnt worth 2min nanoshutdown and you are probably right in many cases, but dont claim you do same dmg with 800 atk as you do with 1400 because thats BS.

[_____Real Kinky Ityn]

Originally posted by Nyderach


k, this is the kind of stuff I'm getting fairly tired of. 'Hey, that profession can do something that we can't do.. that's unbalanced!'. Argh.. why not just ask FC to cut AO's choices down to one race and one profession, problem solved?

Too many people seem to have trouble grasping the concept of "different professions".. I mean really, everytime some prof gets an advantage over another, people start crying nerf. And then you guys wonder why FC is running back and forth nerfing professions instead of adding content/fixing bugs?

I've seen engineers running around complaining that their trade skills aren't as good a trader's.. um? I've seen MA's running around complaining that engineers have a better MA buff than they do.. even though engineers can't use it till like level 180. People complaining about agents using FP/AP/MP.. well that got nerfed too, grats. People complaining that their profession isn't as good at PvP as that other profession.. NERF!

Please realize.. professions are going to have advantages over each other, as well as disadvantages. Quit screaming for nerfs everytime someone else gets the ability to do something you can't.. only thing that's going to achieve is a very pissed off community and absolutely no additional content due to FC running wildly about nerfing professions because MYPROFESSIONHERE doesn't have as many god damn cool nano-programs as YOURPROFESSIONHERE.

^not directed at anyone in particular.. i'd just like to see more fixes/content, and less profession nerfs in every patch. kthx

Yep, I totally agree. You forgot traders wanting to charm mobs for pets the way crats do, as some sort of consideration for their heals now working as intended. If that happens you'll see Crats asking for drains. I like the idea of some difference between the classes.

Let's get some content and stop the nurf insanity.

[Cyberbob]

with 1400 attack you will both hit and crit me a lot as an ma with about 1250ish evades in close combat. Without youll be hitting me a lot less nuff said.

And if the shutdown for 2 mins is so bad and the 30sec rechage on the ma rage like nanos are good, why does no sensible ma's use their dmg nano and enfs use Challenger both in pvp and pvm.

Yes i agree its hard to use against root classes and stuff but its the same thing with ma's there. Against root classes as ma the 8 sec recharge on heals is more than enough.

When the root fix come, enf's have a way of breaking them, they have a heal with less recharge than the ma heal. Not only that but they can buff nano res with rage.

So i must say i feel truly sorry for the enf's that cant cope with the nano shutdown. Try using a diffrent tactic and yes the challenger works very good against Ma's. Without an equal lvl enf is toast more or less.

__________________________________

Cyberbob gladly exchanging the challenger for the ma fistbuffs

[Phione]

I'm not sure if all other enforcers agree with me, but my opinion about Challenger v. other nano shutdown nanos aren't about its penalty, but rather its usefulness.

If you read Cloudeh's post carefully, you'd see that he's not complaining about Challenger's nano shutdown is too long, but it's not useful enough compare to, for instance, Soldier's TMS.

If we compare TMS with Challenger, we'd see that both has nano shutdown for 2 minutes. However, when comparing the best TMS with Best Challenger, the best TMS allows Soldiers to endure only 1/4 of the original damage, but does Challenger boost your damage by 4 times??? Apperently not, not even close.

We're not asking to make it actually allow you to do 4 times damage, however, it should boost your damage out-put significantly to match its counterpart in other professions. Make it more usable in both PvP and PvM, instead of making it as a death trap.

Besides, there are other issues that made Challenger bugged. For instance, it lacks some of the weapon skills for enforcers (such as Melee Energy or Heavy Weapon). Also, the nano shut down would actually nerf some weapons that uses PM as one of the attack skill (the Protector weapons).

[Cyberbob]

Who on earth would do a challenger against a soldier running TMS ,do a mongo or five and just run around a little until its down.
Then you go for the kill. If soldiers had a heal that could compare
to Mongo or something one should have a sec look at it though,
but they dont.

Attackrating has a lot to say vs evades, since two of my best friends play a 180ish enf and a 180 trader belive me, we have tested a lot. Not to mention we have about 6-7 100+ chars put together of various professions and breed.

__________________________________

Cyberbob your freiendly neighbourhood ma comming to a place near you

[______________Wahoo.]

If they would make the debuff alittle shorter it may help. Remember an Ma is a healing class and an enforcer is not. I know we can use mongo but i have found absorb more usefull. I only mongo before a battle and if my hp falls to a certain point. Challenger makes this impossible.That is why it is rare i cast challenger in pvp. Now in missions, i chain cast for dmg output.

[Phione]

I'm talking about "compare" not "cast them at the same time"... I don't remember saying anything about "casting Challenger while the other casted TMS"...

And I don't quite understand what you mean by "soldiers doesn't have a heal" has to do with what we're talking about right now (challenger).

[Cyberbob]

Well all i am saying is that pvp takes some tactic.

Last week Deng (lvl 183 enf) beat dodgeman(lvl 200doc) two times in a row in a fair 1vs1 fight. I more or less thought it was luck until he did it the sec time.

Earlier he has also done this with his brother which is a 178 trader.

I know this has little to do with challenger but it has a lot to do with tactic vs classes in the game that are good in pvp. A class takes you a long way ( often too long ) but strategy is what makes some ppl good in pvp along with the optimal setup.

__________________________________________

Cybooooh running from the proctologist

[______________Wahoo.]

I'm confussed .. I thought this thread was about challenger and how to make it more usefull while still making it fair on other classes.

[Cyberbob]

/me hides

Think i was doing a little roundup about what the enf had to offer versus the soldier in pvp.

Enf: Rage, Mongo, Absorb Shield , Challenger

Soldier: TMS more or less.

If there are more usefull pvp buffs for soldiers please feel free to kill me

__________________________

Cyb

[CryptoNut]

From Darkbane:

OK, challenger should lock some skill for 2 minutes (or probably longer) to prevent chaining, but the nano shutdown could then be reduced to 20 seconds.

It would then be more generally useful without being overpowering.

He cuts through all the crapola and gets right to the point... great post and a most reasonable request. Why should anyone have a problem with his version of the request? As an MA myself, I don't see it at all overpowering. Remember, he's suggesting reducing the length of the nanoshutdown effect... not the skill lock to recast it. Guaranteed, enforcers would find the this nano at least an order more useful for PvE... without giving them an overwhelming advantage in PvP. Furthermore, I don't think it's an unreasonable request to similarly adjust Soldier TMS; i.e. reduce the nanoshutdown effect, only.

Please understand that the skill lock (in terms of recasting that same nano) on each of these respective nanos is just fine; i.e. reducing the skill lock to recast this nano would be overpowering, IMO... however, reducing the nanoshutdown effect would not.

Darkbane's version is a fair request.

[Hajkster]

Originally posted by Coldstrike


He didn't say "fix enforcers before NTs" did he?

Dont care... I still think content is more important...

[Coldstrike]

Originally posted by Beartwo


I was aware of the bracer nerf, but what do you mean by 18% reflect?

75% TMS + 7% bracers = 82%

100% damage - 82% reflected = 18% ..

[_____________Cloudehxx]

Originally posted by Cyberbob
/me hides

Think i was doing a little roundup about what the enf had to offer versus the soldier in pvp.

Enf: Rage, Mongo, Absorb Shield , Challenger

Soldier: TMS more or less.

If there are more usefull pvp buffs for soldiers please feel free to kill me

__________________________

Cyb

chall vs a soldier? LOL.

Also I have a hard time fighting them If I hit back

I usually go full defence and keep rage running, mongo running, and Abosrb and let him hurt himself, I mean we can both wait out his TMS.

Just I hit very fast, with 3 to four specials, now ...do I really want to take away over 600 hp in one alpha from reflect :P

Cyberbob: Deng uses a beam right? If so then that explain how he kills the doc :P

There has been only once I have made a lvl 180+ '200' doc run.

He ran out of nano and I just saved all my nano pool for mongo.

Yes, run...bah ;p
Staffs and pipes are just simply unreliable, in a self buffed fight with no bracers.

Some hits go as low as 12 and I should not have to really do that 3 times in a row in an alpha.

Sometimes I do average damage like a Beam, not the same AMOUNT of damage but enough to hurt someone.

The beam is more trusty, its been used for so long and it perfroms better than the 1hb option.

Maybe if they nerf the blood bat a little to make it NOT as strong.

After all, I want to use TWO weapons not one :P that doesnt mean Im not allowed to hit harder than 2hb is it ;p



Beam enfs got it easy man.

[Cyberbob]

cloudeh:

Well Deng uses a combination of the ssc boym blade and a mantis scissor. It seems to work okay in pvp, due to the number of specials you get.

It also works better on me as an Ma with challenger running he will crit me to death pretty fast if my parry shield is not up. Without i usually take him down.

and as i stated earlier against a soldier running tms nobody would do a challenger, except to take him down fast when tms is out, and maybe even not then due to the wounderfull run like the wind tactic

__________________________________

Cyberbob waiting for deng to respond here

[_____________Cloudehxx]

Ah right, 1he doing better...

Damn..I , generally half of the time even with more attack rating than a 1he/2he user can hardly hurt anyone.

Even tho he will have less attack rating...Those weapons seem to do better damage, have better stats than 1hb.

why the **** am i complaining i dont play ;p

[___________Aggelikki]

Even tho he will have less attack rating...Those weapons seem to do better damage, have better stats than 1hb.

The problem of low attack rating is not too obvious if you fight a mob/pvp near your own level. It is pretty noticeable if you fight a deep red mob with low attack rating, you'll miss a lot!
If one is not an atrox, beam is not an option, he'll be kinda stuck by the horrible choice of weapons.